Ubers Semi-Offensive Rain Team: Help, feedback and advice needed

[raphaelferra]

So I'm relatively new to Gen 5, having not played competitively for 2 years or so, and I've come back to battling. I always played Ubers before, so i decided to rebuild a rain team with some new things as well.


I've been doing reasonably well with this team up to now - when i started my win ratio was around 75%, but recently i've managed to destroy this and now it's hovering around the 62% mark. There are certain Pokemon I come up against that have ruined me several times, and I'll list these under my team.

Kyogre @ Leftovers

Trait: Drizzle

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature

- Scald

- Calm Mind

- Rest

- Sleep Talk


This is my own Kyogre set, i know lots of people like to run Choice Scarf or Specs, but I like this as it surprises a lot of people trying to kill it or status it. Lots of people try to Toxic it or Thunder Wave it thinking it's offensive Calm Mind, and I just carry on Calm Minding and then Rest off in their faces. This is also my Dark Void absorber, which can lead off against Darkrai, set up the weather and then Sleep Talk, hopefully getting a Scald off (Scald is obviously used for that burn chance). This means that i can then switch out, keeping Sleep Clause intact, and go to Arceus, which can destroy Darkrai with Extremespeed if it stays in or Swords Dance if it switches.

Palkia @ Choice Scarf

Trait: Pressure

EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk

Timid Nature

- Surf

- Spacial Rend

- Fire Blast

- Thunder


This is my revenge killer, able to check Kyogre of any kind unless it has a few calm minds, as well as loads of other stuff too. I use Fire Blast to nail Ferrothorn to the wall, even in rain, and also to crucify obvious Groudon switchins trying to weaken Surf.

Manaphy @ Leftovers

Trait: Hydration

Shiny: Yes

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Bold Nature

- Scald

- Grass Knot

- Calm Mind

- Rest


This is my bulky Manaphy, made to surprise people and to tank hits quite well. After one Calm Mind, Choice Scarf switch ins struggle to 2HKO with Thunder, meaning I can Calm Mind again then Rest off the damage, then rinse and repeat, or simply annihilate the opponent. I use Grass Knot over Ice Beam to surprise opposing Groudon and Kyogre, who are at worst 2HKOed by Grass Knot before any Calm Minds. It can also take Extremespeeds from Extremekiller Arceus and retaliate with Scald, which crushes it in the rain and still has a burn chance in sun. It also wins against Blissey and Chansey in rain, being able to boost to +6 and Rest off Seismic Toss damage, whilst being immune to Toxic or Thunder Wave.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers

Trait: Iron Barbs

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

Impish Nature

- Stealth Rock

- Leech Seed

- Power Whip

- Protect


This is my Extremekiller Check, able to take anything but a +6 Earthquake or the rare Overheat (which is weakened in the rain) and survive. Also, Iron Barbs hurts Extremespeed users of course. Leech Seed is always useful to force something out, and i can always use it on the switch to aggravate the switchin. Thanks to the rain, this can also survive a Fire Blast from non Specs Dialga and Palkia. i use Stealth Rock over Spikes because Stealth Rock hits everything that switches, and i like to be able to break Multiscale, badly hurt Ho-Oh even though it has Regenerator, and Toxic Spikes hurts almost every grounded Pokemon anyway.

Arceus @ Silk Scarf

Trait: Multitype

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef

Adamant Nature

- ExtremeSpeed

- Shadow Claw

- Recover

- Swords Dance


Extremekiller Arceus is relatively self-explanatory. This is my best answer to Blaziken, which I was initially unprepared for. If Blaziken attacks me, it can't kill me with an unboosted Hi Jump Kick, barring a critical hit. If it Protects, I Swords Dance and it's dead the next turn. If it Swords Dances the first turn, so do I, and it's dead the next turn. An Unboosted Extremespeed can also get rid it if it's at around 70% health, so after a kill with Flare Blitz, or a round of Stealth Rock, Life Orb and one or two turns of Toxic Spikes damage, Blaziken, which can harm the rest of my team significantly, is not a threat at all.

Tentacruel (F) @ Leftovers

Trait: Rain Dish

EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 224 SDef

Calm Nature

- Scald

- Toxic Spikes

- Rapid Spin

- Knock Off


This is my Spinner and Toxic Spikes setter. It actually does quite well against Thunders and Spacial Rends etc, being able to either switch out of the second one or set an extra layer of Toxic Spikes, or simply Knocking off the item. This also does well against Darkrai, being able to come in on a nasty Plot, take a Dark Pulse and set up Toxic Spikes. If Darkrai carries Substitute, Scald is strong enough to break it in the rain, and even if Darkrai kills me, either it's weak enough to die to Extremespeed, or there are two layers of Toxic Spikes on the field. Knock Off on the switch is also useful, as it often reveals the set of the incoming Pokemon.

Things that this team struggles against:

Arceus-Grass ruins me, being able to kill two of my team members easily. It also gets Calm Minds off so it gets even harder to kill. The only way I can win against this is with a Calm Mind war with Manaphy, and then only if I run Ice Beam over Grass Knot (which I don't like doing), and also only if Arceus-Grass has Grass Knot instead of Judgment.


Various other Arceus formes are problematic for me, especially if they start to Calm Mind. I usually only manage to break Arceus with a lucky burn from Scald, or if i got both layers of Toxic Spikes up. Even then, those with Refresh or Lum Berry (in the case of Extremekiller Arceus) cause problems. Arceus-Ghost is always hard to break as well - I have to rely on status or winning the Calm Mind war. Ho-Oh is hard to counter, especially if the opponent wins the weather war, and it carries Substitute. I end up sacrificing my Extremekiller Arceus to break its Subs so that i can come in and kill it with Palkia or Kyogre. Also, Calm Mind Mewtwo has caused significant problems - i usually have to sacrifice either Palkia or Arceus to weaken it then kill it.


This team doesn't do too well against stall teams - a problem i've encountered a few times is Dragon Tail Dialga. Forretress is also quite a problem for me until I manage to break it.


Any suggestions of changes to the team, whether movesets, EV/Nature changes, or even whole moveset changes, would be vastly appreciated.

 

[Shaymin 492]

From your threat list, changing Kyogre to the Specs set will help with Arceus Ghost and Arceus Grass. I'd suggest changing Manaphy to Support Dialga (Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast) it's going to help your CM Mewtwo problem. Change SR on Ferro to Spikes, Dialga already has rocks. And don't use recover arceus, it has horrible coverage, so try changing recover to Earthquake and putting in 168 speed EV's to creep naive Rayquaza. Change Palkia to Scarf Dialga (Draco Meteor, Thunder, Fire Blast, Dragon Pulse). If you insist on keeping Palkia, change Spacial Rend to Draco Meteor since it's not like you're going to spam Spacial Rend (if you can, then your opponent has a problem).

 

[steelskitty]

From your threat list, changing Kyogre to the Specs set will help with Arceus Ghost and Arceus Grass. I'd suggest changing Manaphy to Support Dialga (Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Dragon Pulse, Fire Blast) it's going to help your CM Mewtwo problem. Change SR on Ferro to Spikes, Dialga already has rocks. And don't use recover arceus, it has horrible coverage, so try changing recover to Earthquake and putting in 168 speed EV's to creep naive Rayquaza. Change Palkia to Scarf Dialga (Draco Meteor, Thunder, Fire Blast, Dragon Pulse). If you insist on keeping Palkia, change Spacial Rend to Draco Meteor since it's not like you're going to spam Spacial Rend (if you can, then your opponent has a problem).

You listed Dialga twice, lol. How's it running a scarf and getting up rocks? Also, how does Specs Kyogre beat Arceus-Grass one-on-one?

Recover is usually a bad idea on Arceus. It absolutely needs the coverage to be the lategame cleaner it wants to be. Your current Arceus is walled to hell and back by stuff like Forretress, Ferrothorn, opposing Arceus-Steel, and Dialga. Just run this set, and you should be good:

#Overrated (Arceus) @ Silk Scarf
Trait: Multitype
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Brick Break/Earthquake
- Shadow Claw

The bulk is quite nice so you can set up on more scarfers, and this variant speedcreeps Adamant Rayquaza by one point. Brick Break is coverage you absolutely need, but Earthquake is nice to hit stuff like Forretress, Terrakion (on the switch), and Dialga harder. Shadow Claw is nice for Giratina-O, Swords Dance is obligatory, etc etc. Alternatively, you could run Shaymin 492's spread, but the loss of bulk is very noticeable and it invests so much in speed to beat one uncommon thing that it isn't even really worth it. Also, this Arceus sets up in Mewtwo's face and kills it the next turn with +2 Extremespeed :-).

Secondly, I would suggest ditching Manaphy. It's just generally a bad Pokemon because of its weather-dependence and all-around "meh" stats by Ubers standards; also, its defensive synergy clashes with the three other water types on the team. Instead I would drop it for Scarf Terrakion, which is a solid answer to Extremekiller Arceus (your team currently lacks anything solid versus it; lum variants autowin, and Extremekiller Arceus paired up with Rock Polish Groudon should 6-0 you rather easily). It's also quite the capable revenge killer, and it fixes your Ho-oh and Dialga problems. Just run 252 Atk/252 Spe/4HP, Jolly Nature, Close Combat/Stone Edge/Sleep Talk/Sacred Sword (this set also has the advantage of being wonderfully anti-smashpass by giving you a fast sleep absorber. Sacred Sword and Close Combat are run so that you have a better chance of selecting a Fighting-type move versus things you're asleep against, and because Terrakion rarely wants to get locked into its coverage moves anyway. Earthquake and X-Scissor are bad.)

Now, because you're running Scarf Terrakion, you'll need to drop the Choice Scarf on Palkia, as running two Scarfers is detrimental. I think that either the standard Lustrous Orb or Haban Berry could work on this team: Lustrous Orb makes you a fearsome stallbreaker (which you currently lack) while Haban Berry takes a good deal of pressure off of Ferrothorn to absorb dragon attacks. It's your choice really.

I personally love Specs Kyogre on this team, but you don't necessarily have to run it. Your current Kyogre semi-checks both Groudon and Ho-oh, which helps you in the long run to win the weather war, and it's quite annoying to fight, from my experience. The Specs Variant is useful for killing Arceus-Grass on the switchin with prediction, and any problems you had with Calm Mind Arceus-Ghost are negated by the fact that Specs Rain-Boosted STAB Hydro Pump still OHKOs it even after it has a Calm Mind up. Also, this Kyogre beats Lugia one-on-one in the rain, which your team somewhat dislikes.

Finally, you want to change Ferrothorn's EV Spread, as something more special-defense-oriented is usually better in Ubers (as most of the commonly seen attacks are Special). I run 252 HP/200 Sdef/56 Def, Impish, giving it very nice all around bulk while also not being 2HKO'd by Rock Polish Groudon's Earthquake.

Good luck!