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BW RU Ultimate balance (#1 on smogon ladder)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by SuperPascal, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Hello everyone! Let me share with you my new Rarely Use team that got me to the #1 spot on the smogon ladder. Since the beginning of RU, I have tried different playstyle along with a wise variety of poke before finally settling it down to the 15th version of my balance team. I know that hyper offense is usually better in RU thanks to monsters like Tinted Lens Yanmega, but balance can be quite good if played correctly.

    Please listen to this song while reading this RMT. It will help you get in the mood.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub5p1aKUkxg



    The Team





    [​IMG]
    Hariyama (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SDef
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Fake Out
    - Close Combat
    - Ice Punch
    - Payback
    Hariyama always helps me at getting the advantage at the beginning of the match. Fake out gives me a free turn while breaking any focus sash and activating guts. After that, guts boosted close combat destroys just about anything not resisting it. The other moves are for coverage. Haryama's bulk is also quite impressive and helps in a lot of situation. He can also be use as a status absorbers for those pesky Venomoth with sleep powder.




    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 48 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    Cresselia is one of the bulkiest pokémon of all time and that's why I love her. I use a simple sub calm mind set that works quite well. Sub protects me from toxic which is sometimes to only way to deal with cress for the other team. Psyshock let me win calm mind wars versus things like other cress and that's why I use it over Psychic. 208 HP is a leftovers number and the small 48 EVs in SAtk can help when I don't have the time to boost.




    [​IMG]
    Venomoth (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SAtk
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Quiver Dance
    - Roost
    - Bug Buzz
    This set may seems weird at first but it's actually quite good. The goal behind this set is to get as many quiver dance as possible and then destroy everything with tinted lens bug buzz. I put roost on it because it already has great coverage with only one attack thanks to tinted lens. I usually use him as a late game sweeper when things like Honchkrow and Yanmega are gone.




    [​IMG]
    Omastar (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Shell Armor
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 SAtk / 164 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Shell Smash
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    Omastar is in my opinion the best shell smasher not just in RU but in every tier. He is really underrated. Sure, he can't use baton pass like gorebyss, but it doesn't need to since he can do the sweeping himself. It's also stronger and have a better typing than the overhyped Cloyster. Anyways, the purpose of this set is quite simple: shell smash and sweeps. Surf, ice beam and HP Grass give great coverage that is unresisted and it hits SE quite a few poke. The 164 Spd Evs give him enough speed to outspeed Alakazam and everything slower after a shell smash. Only extreme bulky stuff like Cresselia, Uxie and Blastoise can take a hit. Fortunately, they often try to Thunder wave or yawn me which is useless thanks to lum berry. The only real pokémon stopping him are priority user and choice scarfers.




    [​IMG]
    Ferroseed (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 112 HP / 144 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Leech Seed
    - Stealth Rock
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    There's not a whole lot of steel type to choose from in RU. Thankfully, Ferrothorn's little sister can fill up this spot quite nicely with eviolite. Ferroseed helps me scout, put some stealth rock and stall out big threats like rain dancers. The EVs are optimized to make the best use out of eviolite while still focusing on taking special hits. She doesn't have any attack simply because her damage output is pitiful even with full power gyro ball. It's still a big problem against substitute users.




    [​IMG]
    Rotom-S @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Confuse Ray
    - Substitute
    - Air Slash
    Rotom-S is my best counter to speed boost Yanmega. It can also beat tinted lens Yanmega if SR are not up. Otherwisae, it is 2HKO after Stealth rock. Aside form that, it is an excellent annoyer with its parafusionflinch strategy which can help get some free turns for Omastar. Sometimes, with a little bit of luck, it can beat the entire opposing team by himself. Rotom-Spin is also double immune to ground!


    I really don't feel like posting a big long threat list so I will simply say that the biggest threats to this team are subseeding Sceptile and Serperior which need to be outstall and moderately fast powerful threat like honchkrow since my team is pretty slow.

    Anyways, feel free to leave any suggestion to improve my team. I would especially like if you could suggest me a replacement for Venomoth since it will be moving to UU soon. Also, if you are going to suggest Lilligant, please elaborate.
    Level 51 likes this.
  2. Miracle Man0

    Miracle Man0

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    27
    Hi SuperPascal,

    This team looks pretty solid since it looks as if either Cress, Venomoth, or Omastar will sweep the opponents team eventually. I can see why this team is no 1 and I've probably lost to it sometime.

    But, it seems as if heavy stall stops this team. Especially with stuff like Munchlax, who can tank hits from your team (maybe even one Hariyama CC?) and can rest/sleeptalk/ww/bodyslam your team forever.

    It looks like you would need 2 shell smashes with Omastar to OHKO and you have to hope that it doesn't sleep talk the body slam and get para or get whirlwind.

    Although munchlax alone can't beat your team, with the proper support, it can check all of your sweepers.

    Also, it seems as if Rotom-S is your weakest team member, all it seves to do is counter yanmega (very important) and give your team a few resistances while spreading paralysis. Something like the muchlax set i mentioned earlier could work, but you lose some resistances and gain a weakness to fighting. However, you get more spDef and whirlwind to phaze yanmega, body slam to break its subs or paralyze it, and resttalk for staying power.


    Also, you could put dual screens and t-wave on cress for para support and screen support for your sweepers.


    EDIT: Taunt also ruins the set up of every member of your team except for Hariyama. Since the only pokemon with attacking EVs are Hariyama and Omastar (both of whom are slow) you'll be hitting pretty weakly, which could give the opponent one free turn of set up. Idk what to do about it but choice users are always fun and they'll hit hard and won't be taunt bait. You could choice Hariyama but that might be a bad idea. Or, you could use something like Entei, who has great power and revenge killing capabitily with Flare Blitz/Extremespeed. Meh, this one isn't too important.


    Finally, I use signal beam as the off attack on Cresselia to hit psychics in calm mind wars, it also hits sharpedo, but i think LO crunch 2HKOs.

    And, if you want to use Lilligant, try sleep powder/lunar dance. Venomoth is a better quiver dancer than lilligant, but lilligant can potentially allow two seeps for a teammate if it can't break through the opponent's walls.
  3. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Thanks for the reply MiracleMan. I have never considered changing Rotom-S for Munchlax before. It's weird because I know for a fact that Munchlax is the best special wall in the tier. Munchlax can also phaze which could be quite helpful for my team. Unfortunately, it gets no form of recovery except rest which I don't like without heal bell support. I guess I could try a set like this:

    Munchlax (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 14 HP / 248 Def / 248 SDef
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Body Slam
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest
    I will still think about it.

    Also, you are right about the fact that I have trouble with stall, especially phazers since the only way to win these matches is to get a couple of boost with either Cress, Venomoth or Omastar. I more often than not manage to pull it off though.

    You are also right about my team behind weak to taunt (thankfully, it's not common in RU except on things like Honchkrow).

    I would like to change ice beam for signal beam on Cress since it would let me uses psychic and hits super-effectively Crawdaunt, but it would leaves me way more weak to Honchkrow who loves to come on Cress and taunts her while I fire a +1 ice beam.

    Now that I think of it, Rotom-S is my only check to Honchkrow, so if I change it for Munchlax, I may have even more trouble with him.

    Anyways, thanks for the rate.
  4. Blueporygon

    Blueporygon

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2011
    Messages:
    15
    If omastar doesn't work out, cruslte is IMO the best shell smasher around. It also gets sturdy, and can set up rocks. It doesn't even need a shell smash to be able to **** stuff up.
  5. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    @Blueporygon thanks for the reply but Omastar is here to stay. I need him to check Entei and he's easily the best member of my team right now (he ends more than half of my matches). Also, he's stronger and faster than Crustle while having the exact same defensive stat. The only advantage in using Crustle is sturdy and the great bug/rock attacking combo.
  6. Gibbonator42685

    Gibbonator42685

    Joined:
    May 21, 2011
    Messages:
    11
    It's always weird seeing a team on here that you've battled yourself :P
  7. Battler3797

    Battler3797

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    179
    this is just me but wouldn't a flame orb be better on hariyama then a toxic orb. Toxic orb stacks up damage the longer hariyama stays in. Toxic orb is best used for hit and run pokemon (hariyama is more of a bulky guy) so i feel like a flame orb might be the better choice but thats just my opinion
  8. Blame Truth

    Blame Truth

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    I feel proud to have beaten this team a time or two with my RU team, but I have lost to it as well. I run a stall team, and really, there's just no way to handle Cress if my Scollipede dies. I remember you beating me with this team before so I was prepared for it the next time and won if my memory serves. But yes, the guy that said heavy stall works is correct.

    I would recommend running more hazards than just stealth rock to put the opponent in more of a bind on what to do. Instead of Leech Seed on Ferroseed, consider switching it to Spikes, and maybe Protect to something else like Rest. Running a spin blocker isnt necessary, as it will bait Rapid Spin so you can get a free switch in to a sweeper and go from there.
  9. Griff

    Griff

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    238
    Hey, Pascal! I battled this team on Smogon RU Ladder.
    it was a fun game, and i wanted to say a few things.
    Your cress set got walled by steels, which kinda sucks. You could always run HP Fighting for coverage, although ice beam is the norm. Hariyama looks great. I think it is a great set. Nothing should be changed IMO.
    I use the same Venomoth set but with an even weirder spread. I guess it wasn't a speed tie after all xD
    I never got to see omastar in action during our battle, too bad. :( It seems very effective if it has a shell smash up. That Ferroseed was such a pain in the ass. XD keep it, it is good. I didn't get to see Rotom F in action, but it seemed like a great yanmega check/counter. Great team overall.
  10. polop

    polop
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Messages:
    810
    This team is fantastic although there is one HUGE problem with your ferroseed.

    Ferroseed has two genders.... thats just odd <.<

    [note this is both a troll and not]

    Other then that nitpick its wonderful :D good luck with it and congrats on the first spot.
  11. XxVincentxX

    XxVincentxX

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    28
    Chat

    Berk your team sucks... unless you kicked my OU ass... Replace Omastar by Butterfree dude, its better.

    -Your cousin
  12. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    @Battler3797 toxic orb is better if you stay in for two turns or less (or three if you count the turn toxic orb activates). Also, the do equal damage on the third turn and I almost never stay in more then 3 turns.

    @Blamethruth Hey I love your Youtube videos ;). Anyways, thanks for the reply but I can't change leech seed for spikes on ferroseed simply because she would have no mean of recovery whatsoever (and rest isn't an option without heal bell support). I also can't replace stealth rock by spikes since it's one of my only way to check things like honchkrow and venomoth. Also, rapid spin is just too easy to achieve right now with Blastoise.

    @Griff the only common steel type Pokémon in RU are Ferroseed (walled by sub), Steelix (not threatening), Probopass (not threatening), Magneton (not threatening) and Aggron (ok this one is better than the others but Hariyama can take care of it). I prefer ice beam because I can hit things like Honchkrow way harder. Thanks for the reply anyways ;)

    @Mr.lol You are right.I will change that.

    @Vincent thanks for the nice comment :P
  13. Twannes

    Twannes

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    445
    WOW. this is a really nice team. Gonna try it out :P

    Btw perhaps you can run Baton Pass > Roost on Venomoth, so you can pass the boosts to say Omastar or Cresselia to sweep.

    EDIT: And i see a Durant weakness, as nothing can tank his hits very well, I'm not sure what can beat it, other than a scarfed pokemon with a fire attack, but it isn't that common anyway.
  14. SuperPascal

    SuperPascal

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    thanks for the reply Twannes :)

    You are right about the Durant weakness. Only Ferroseed can really handle it. Durant can also come in quite easily on cress and start to set up. Thankfully, like you said, he's rather uncommon.
  15. XxVincentxX

    XxVincentxX

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2011
    Messages:
    28
    Hey I was checking you RMT again while I was nominating your team in the RU RMT Nominating and saw your Venomoth moveset. I just wanted to say that Moltres walls you completely.

    Good Morning/Afternoon/Night

    See ya :D

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