Dear The Immortal,
Today, I played Tier Shift in Pokemon Showdown. First of all I have to say thank you for making Ultimate Z come alive because I had a good time.
It was a fun metagame where I could try many different things that I could normally not execute in regular metagames, including Groudium Z Volcarona that blows up Heatran, Electrium Z Zygarde that can delete Skarmory and Celesteela without knocking them down with 1k arrows, and Fightinium Z Cloyster that took care of ubiquitous Mimikyu while blowing up all Steel-types after the boost. While this meta is fun, I couldn't just sit there and do nothing while I could see couple systemic errors in the metagame:
1) Anything else than Hyperoffensive teams is nearly impossible to execute
You probably should have noticed this at this point. I thought it might be just me who thinks HO dominates this meta but I spectated nearly 100 games of Ultimate Z before I started writing this up. From Turn 1, things start to go crazy; Kyurem-B sets Z-Hail and starts spamming BP 200 Subzero Slammer which 2HKOs the entire metagame barring stuff like Heatran (which isn't even viable), Pellipper brings in Kingdra and anything that doesn't resist water is OHKOed and water-resistant 'mons get 2HKO'ed by Hydro Vortex spam, and Tapu Koko gains +2 Attack per turn and proceeds to sweep the team if they lack anything faster than it. This is probably the similar phenomenon I experienced when Crystal-Free-Z-Moves were unbanned in Balanced Hackmons the first day it came out on PS. You have to go straight into spamming Z-moves, or you will find yourself facing a Pokemon at +6 that spams a Z-move which has at least 150 BP. This is clearly something unbearable to balance and most stall teams.
2) Using Z-move over and over causes problems
When we play OU, we commonly lead with a Stealth Rock user. Check this replay:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ultimatez-639956612
Turn 1.
Just another day I wanna start out with setting Stealth Rock with Azelf. This Porygon-Z uses Z-Conversion to boost all of its stats, then it proceeds to use Z-Conversion 2 to restore all the health. Yes, I should have pressed Corkscrew Crash once more, but I didn't know much about Z-effect of Conversion 2 due to it being unviable move to use with Z-crystal outsides Ultimate Z. Guess what? This lead hard walls my entire team and proceeds to negate all the chip using Z-move with healing effects and proceeds to get to +6. tldr; setting a Stealth Rock in Turn 1 in this metagame is a setup fodder that cannot be stopped.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ultimatez-639957514
Again, I wanted to set Stealth Rock, but I stopped to think about using Taunt to stop potential Shift Gear (which ended up happening), and this lead to instant loss from Turn 1.
I get it. I am not the best player. It has been a day since I played this thing. But if there are more than just one Pokemon that can lead turn 1, ignore Taunt / Encore, and setup against standard leads to go straight 6-0'ing the other team is not a competitive game anymore; it would better be titled some RPG game where you go straight into fighting the opponent without planning anything; current meta works this way: set up using 'mon 1, if that 'mon dies, set up using 'mon 2, and so on.
Using Defog / Rapid Spin is asking for setup.
Using Unaware users like Quagsire and Clefable won't work; high BP-moves are everywhere and majority of them will 2HKO both.
Using Ditto won't work because Ditto's 48 HP will lead to losing against most setup sweepers whose Z-moves' effects often have defensive boosts.
This might be exclusive issue for specific Z-moves like Mirror Move, Conversion, Stockpile, or other things, but being able to set up while having additional effects like healing, gaining +2 attack for every blow you execute is definitely an issue at least in my perspective.
3) More than half of setup sweepers go out of control after couple boosts / setups
Like I mentioned, there are some obvious examples that has to go, and it is because it is essentially impossible to stop them once you give them a turn. Look at this Porygon-Z in 6 turns:
View attachment 89080
This isn't just for Porygon-Z. Tapu Koko can theoretically go +6 after 3 Mirror Move which will dent anything.
After that game I thought "oh god this Porygon-Z is cash money" and I abused Z-Magnet Rise + Z-Conversion + Z-Conversion2 to get to +6 in all stats, including Evasions.
--
I couldn't even write much due to today being the first day I play this, but I can clearly some issues. These negative phenomenons (HO being dominant, Z-move spams to repeatedly set up) are probably what happens if we go for "fun metagame" instead of going for competitive metagame.
Sorry if my post sounded too demanding, but I wrote all this out of genuine passion towards Ultimate Z. For now what I would suggest are:
- Each Pokemon can use Z-move only once
- Ban specific moves like Conversion. Also ask GeniusMike said ban stuff like Z-Detect, Z-Magnet Rise, and others bc Evasion clause and stuf
Even if the first bullet point defeats the purpose of this metagame I would rather choose not to play in a meta where 150+ BP moves will be a common place and thus will invalidate balance and stall teams. Thanks