1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Umbreon OHKOed Your Opponent!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by youngjake93, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Once upon a time, a Sableye used Foul Play on my Pokemon. I was intrigued by this move because it seemed to do obscene amounts of damage for such a wimpy Pokemon. Apparently, Foul Play steals the attack stat of your opponent for damage calculation! That's pretty nifty. Coincidentally, Umbreon was slowly becoming one of my favorite special tanks in the game and as I looked up Foul Play, there was Umbreon's name on the list. Even more awesome was when I found out Umbreon learns Swagger! So we have a special tank that can confuse special attackers, boost the damage they do to themselves, and boost its own attack as well. It was time to start team building!

    [​IMG]
    I was obviously going to start with this guy, but he lures fighting and bug types alllll day long. I was becoming a fan of dark-ghost synergy and thought of a few ghosts to fill the slot, but I had an even better idea.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Landorus-T! I already knew I had every single special attacker on lockdown with Umbreon, so I might as well use a bulky Intimidater that resists both bug and fighting! I quickly noticed my glaring physical ice weakness. I can't just have Mamoswine and Cloyster walk all over me.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    So that brought me to Suicune. I wanted to use Roar on Suicune, so I figured I would need some hazards.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The incredibly overplayed Deoxys-Defense+Gengar combo fit perfectly well and gave Umbreon even more free switch-ins due to their synergy. The only thing I was missing at that point was some speed/revenge power. Scarfchomp would be perfect!
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Come to find out, Garchomp gets walled by bulky water types in his late-game sweep attempt. He also got me screwed by having horrible synergy with Landorus-T.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Kyurem-Black fixes those problems at the cost of some speed. I don't think that impacts me too much though except against Salamence, Haxorus and opposing Garchomp.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I was already having trouble with hazard stacking teams before I added a Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon, I rarely used Gengar, and I needed to take some of the pressure off of Deoxys-D and Landorus-T. Hitmontop was my answer.

    So that's the team that I have been using somewhat successfully. Time to go more in-depth.

    [​IMG]
    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Swagger
    - Wish
    - Heal Bell
    - Foul Play

    Umbreon is a tank. Choice Specs Draco Meteors, Hydro Pumps in Rain, Fire Blasts in Sun you name it and he tanks it. The beauty of Swagger+Foul Play is that if they try to ruin your abuse by switching to a physical attacker after you use Swagger on their Pokemon.... then Foul Play still hits like a truck! I especially enjoy destroying Kyurem Black in this manner. Wish support works wonders for this team. Usually, I can use Wish when I suspect them to switch to a physical attacker, then Landorus-T can accept the Wish and hopefully begin to sweep. I chose Heal Bell over Protect because Umbreon isn't getting hit harder than 30% most of the time, Heal Bell+Synchronize is amazing, and Suicune runs Rest.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Polish
    - Stone Edge
    - Swords Dance

    Part 2 of my defensive core is Lando-T. His most important duties include keeping dragons and Genesect's +1 U-Turn under control. However, you may notice that I have somewhat of a sweeper set-up. I can't set-up too early because almost every team carries a bulky water type that can check +2 EQ, but this guy gets his fair share of sweeps. I usually put him in the first slot on the previewer and also usually lead with him. Against Genesect leads, Genesect is using Ice Beam 100% of the time(maybe not after I post this..), so that is a free switch-in for Umbreon, Deoxys-D, or Suicune. Against Deoxys-D leads, prepare to attempt an early-game sweep with free boosts. Same goes for Tyranitar leads, most Fighting types, and some physical attackers. You can't be too anxious if they have a bulky water or Skarmory though unless you can manage two boosts.

    [​IMG]
    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Roar
    - Scald

    This guy induces more rage than I thought. He has just enough physical bulk to tank pretty much every single unboosted attack in OU(Bullet seeds from Breloom hurt). After a Calm Mind or two, you really can't hit him from the special side either. Roar is my safety net on the team and also a way to get a few more Calm Minds, avoid Suicune's counters, and rack up hazards damage. Pressure+Rest is a really nice way to troll Close Combat users. Speaking of ways to troll Close Combat users... I chose Scald for the sweet burn chance. It also happens to be the only way for me to cause status outside of Synchronize. This Suicune can stall, sweep, phaze and is basically my hero haha.

    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-Defense @ Rocky Helmet
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Psychic
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover

    First, let me just say: Lol specially defensive with Rocky Helmet is such a good idea. Also, this guy has quickly overtaken all others as the star of my team. I retired Gengar because Deoxys-D with Rocky Helmet don't give a crap about Rapid Spinners. Life Orb Starmie comes in and kills itself quickly by attempting to Rapid Spin as I just spam the Spikes button. Donphan and Tentacruel follow a similar process. Genesect and Scizor CONSTANTLY come in to just to use a U-Turn that I survive and Recover from. Meanwhile, they are constantly destroying themselves with hazard and Rocky Helmet damage. Special Attackers can't touch its bulk. Anything with any kind of power worth worrying over is PP stalled out in 4 turns due to Pressure. I never realized just how amazing Deoxys-D was until now.

    [​IMG]
    Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Sucker Punch
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Close Combat

    I needed a spinner to deal with hazard stacking teams easier and to make Kyurem-B's life easier. Starmie/Tentacruel and Donphan didn't have synergy due to Suicune and Landorus fulfilling a large chunk of their other responsibilities. Hitmontop gives priority and a powerful fighting attack that my team appreciates. It can also spin against ghosts and takes some burden off of Landorus-T due to Intimidate.

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem-Black @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Teravolt
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Naughty Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Outrage
    - Ice Beam

    Garchomp's Outrage was too weak and my team was too 4x ice weak. Kyurem-B simply plays clean-up crew with Outrage/Dragon Claw at the end of the game. I don't even know why I bother compensating for Ice Beam because I never use it.. but I might one day.

    Well, that's the team. Looking forward to input. So far, all I can see is a minor bug buzz weakness.
  2. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Swapped Garchomp for Kyurem-Black and Gengar for Hitmontop. I have three alternate form Pokemon now! Haha

    Edit: 1701 ACRE rating and 1780 Glicko2 rating and rising.
  3. Relados

    Relados Deuced banner.
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,151
    You may want to put Taunt or Magic Coat over Recover on your Deoxys-D, to prevent other people from setting up hazards or sweepers on you, or from shutting you down with their own Taunt. Instead of Psychic, consider Night Shade.

    Suicune needs to be wary of Breloom. Without Sleep Talk it is shut down by Spore.

    Swagger on Umbreon is risky. Without a high defense investment, raising your opponent's attack stat so high means you are depending on the confusion to protect you. Foul Play with Swagger can do wonders, but on Umbreon is only emphasizes its Fighting weakness, as Fighting Pokemon will resist it and benefit from the Swagger boost. Standard Umbreon may work better - think over Payback and Toxic instead. Alternatively, give Umbreon more defense investment so it can survive better in case the confusion does not come through for you.

    Rock Polish and Swords Dance on the same set for Landorus is odd. To better escape any switches carrying anything with an Ice move, you'd probably want to replace one of the two with U-Turn, so you can pivot your team to something better suited to handling that.
  4. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    826
    Relados, Foul Play > Payback, as there are many Dragon Dance and Swords Dance sweepers in the tier. Foul Play is capable of OHKOing Azelf, whereas Payback needs investment.
  5. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Thanks for the input! I have Psychic on Deoxys-Defense because of Breloom and because Umbreon asks for Fighting types to come in. I also use Psychic for Donphan, Tentacruel, Gengar, Cloyster and others. Night Shade wouldn't help as much in any of these situations.
    I considered Taunt and Magic Coat and even playtested them. I just couldn't predict very well with them and lost momentum frequently. Recover is also how I counter Life Orbers, physical attackers(due to Rocky Helmet) and Rapid Spinners.

    Funny you mentioned Breloom by the way. I recently came across Low Sweep Breloom and it just went to town on my team. It even does a large chunk of damage to Landorus-T and 2hkoed Hitmontop! o_O
    I honestly don't know what to do about that though... I had Sleep Talk Celebi in over Hitmontop as the ultimate Breloom counter before lol, but Celebi hardly helped the team. I might think about putting Counter on Hitmontop...

    The thing about Umbreon is.. I don't use Swagger on strong physical attackers. I have a whole arsenal of switch-ins for when a Fighting-type comes around, so I won't play any games with them and Umbreon. The only time I would risk using Swagger to gamble for confusion hax is if I don't have a reliable switch-in. That would mean I was about to lose anyway if all my switch-ins went down. Payback has far too low of damage output. Plus the only thing I have trouble damaging with Umbreon is Steel types, so Toxic seems silly.

    Double Dance Landorus is odd? :O
    Why would I want to escape any switches carrying an ice move when I can just OHKO them? The beauty of Double Dance Landorus is that if they are about to switch in something bulky, I can use Swords Dance and 1hko the switch-in. If they are about to switch in something fast, I can use Rock Polish and 1hko the switch-in. If they are about to switch-in an Ice Sharder, then I can EQ it on the switch-in(I think that KOs Weavile) and then get a free Suicune switch-in if it is Mamoswine.

    0 Atk Umbreon Foul Play vs 0 HP/0 Def Kyurem-B: 53.2% - 62.92%
    0 Atk Umbreon Payback vs 0 HP/0 Def Kyurem-B: 9.97% - 11.76%

    I think I will stick with Foul Play.
  6. Endeby

    Endeby

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,027
    Hi! Your team has two Intimidate users and both Spikes and Stealth Rock. That`s pretty cool. Even though you don`t really say anything about it, I`m going to assume this is what you have in mind. Pressure stalling is also pretty obvious, but perhaps a bit too ambitious to base a team around in this metagame. My feedback will therefore be based around that.

    Suicune: Rest without Chesto Berry/Sleep-Talk is hard to pull of in 5.gen. Even with a cleric... If you want to use Suicune, Sleep-Talk should be used over either Roar or Calm Mind. Probably the former, as Intimidate from Landorus/Hitmontop and CM actually have a pretty neat synergy

    A even better option would probably be to take Suicune out and put in Jellicent. You will not only take Close Combats even better (not at all), but will also get something that can block rapid spin. Meaning your hazard and Intimidate spam won`t go to waste as soon as someone decide to bring something like Forrettress. As for set, the bog standard one you see on smogon is probably a good idea.
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Jellicent
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 216 SDef / 252 HP / 48 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Scald
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Taunt
    - Recover


    Landorus-Therian: Giving a part of your defensive core two offensive setup-moves is a bit icky, imo. I honestly think dropping both of them for U-Turn and something else. Rest (with Chesto Berry) and Gravity (to take even more advantage of your entry hazards).

    Kyurem-B: I believe you when you say you never use Ice Beam. Your Dragon attacks do the job good enough against most if not everything that is not Gliscor, who will take 48.3 - 57.06% damage from Outrage anyway. Consider using Earth Power instead, as it will give you a way around Heatran. Sleep-Talk is also a good move on him, as you then can use Adamant nature and his big natural bulk to tank special attacks easier.

    Deoxys-D: The best entry hazard-seter on the metagame. Will almost always succeed. I`m gonna support Magic Coat over Recover though, as a lot of players has started running Taunt users (most notably faster Deoxys-D). Rocky Helmet could also be replaced by Mental Herb to make your life even easier.

    Umbreon: Lastly, I echo the concerns about Swagger on Umbreon. It seem pretty counter-productive considering your Intimidate users as well. Perhaps Toxic or Protect should be given a go? The former is sweet against Terrakions thinking they can use you as set-up bait, while the later will make it easier for Umbreon to pass Wishes to herself, as well as easing predictions against Choice Users.

    Just my two cents. I`m a bit tired now, so excuse my dumb grammar and formating. Good luck with your team!
  7. BlankZero

    BlankZero

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,839
    Double Dance Lando-T makes me love this whole setup. It's so damn good, only beaten by DoubleDance Terrakion, but Lando gets Bulk and Intimidate, making it so very lovely. Now if only it could have sheer Force too, eh? :D

    I hate facing Umbreon myself, and this set reminds me of a bulkier Prankster Liepard, without the priority. If you see it has the bulk for it, I say go for it, but looking to Liepard too. It's super frail, yes, but TWave, Sub, Swagger, Foul Play just kills things if it gets behind the Sub.

    I'm iffy on Hitmontop for this team. I like the Rocks resistance, but what to do about TSpikes? I do like that it has Foresight for Ghosts. That will screw up so many people.

    Overall, I like the team, and I may have to steal it. Balanced Defensive teams that border on Stall make me happy. I'll give it a shot and give my feedback to you then.
  8. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Umbreon's Swagger isn't counter-product to Intimidate, it actually provides nice synergy. You confuse the special attacker, they are forced to switch out. You lower the Attack of the physical attacker, they are forced to switch out. Umbreon isn't meant to stay in on any physical attackers.

    Landorus-T is purposely built to sweep. I have a boosting special attacker, a boosting physical attacker and a scarfed mixed attacker =] (lol who am I kidding, Kyurem-B might as well only know Outrage)
    It can still perform all of its duties just fine, I can maintain HP just fine and U-Turn doesn't add much utility to it anyway.

    I will play around with the idea of Sleep Talk Suicune, Jellicent and maybe even Wobbuffett or Gothitelle in that slot. Also, thanks for the Earth Power suggestion.

    The way I use Deo-D calls for Recover. I don't suicide with it, mainly because I don't have a spinblocker lol, but it also does a lot of other things.



    Blank, use Umbreon to heal Poison.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)