Thanks for the proofread. I took a few of your suggestions, but many changed the voice of the analysis, so I didn't take those. Cheers.
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Umbreon (Update)
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
- Start date
breh
強いだね
Before I say anything know that I'm not too good with OU; I haven't played after Mence's banning and played OU quite sparsely before it
Anyway call me crazy but why is there no Curse/BP set? That's arguably what Umbreon is best at doing IMO (and it's not directly outclassed by anything; Vaporeon is the only one who comes close but can't use the attack boost and has poor defense)
Anyway call me crazy but why is there no Curse/BP set? That's arguably what Umbreon is best at doing IMO (and it's not directly outclassed by anything; Vaporeon is the only one who comes close but can't use the attack boost and has poor defense)
Because Curse is a terrible move to Baton Pass. You are passing +1 Attack, +1 Defense, and -1 Speed with each boost. This is counterproductive to basically every single Baton Pass team that exists, all of which rely on outspeeding the opponent with their sweepers and chain members. Also, all of the Pokemon you would ever want to pass -Speed to have Curse or Bulk Up on their own and would do better without Umbreon as a third wheel and wasted team slot (and game turns). The set isn't necessarily outclassed, but by all rights it is awful. There are dozens of other things I'd much rather Baton Pass than Curse.Breludicolo said:
GP check is a little old thing
where we can get some grammar
GP check baby...
GP check 1
Deletions in Red
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where we can get some grammar
GP check baby...
GP check 1
Deletions in Red
Additions in Blue
Not much to say except great work on an entertaining read!
I took all of your suggestions. Thanks a lot for that check.
Eh... I wouldn't say that Tyranitar runs this set better on all counts, especially given its extra weaknesses to Water, Grass, FIGHTING, Ground and Steel. Additionally, Umbreon could run Resttalk like Tyranitar, so you can't really boast about taking status.
p.s. Anyone tried passing Curses to a Bronzong?
I elaborated on the differences between Tyranitar and Umbreon using a Curse set in the OP under OC. Hopefully this will handle the issues that so many are up in arms about.
So we are saying that a pokemon with seven weaknesses that can run the identical same set is 100% better than the same thing with 2 weaknesses? Payback / Curse / Rest / Sleep Talk on Umbreon is pretty comparable to Tyranitar.. I'd actually prefer Umbreon since it actually beats Starmie and isn't completely fucked by Gengar.
This is the only set that I have ever used on Umbreon that doesnt suck. You bait scizor with magnezone and bring this in on something
umbreon
mean look
yawn
protect
baton pass
it can survive any one attack in OU with a fighting resist berry, and it gives any one sweeper free setup. it's gimmicky, but it's the only way that umbreon actually wins battles, again after baiting scizor (and flygon i guess but fuck flygon you can see that u-turn coming from a mile away anyway)
@rl: yes, because curse tyranitar CAN beat starmie (protip: +1 payback is an ohko)
umbreon
mean look
yawn
protect
baton pass
it can survive any one attack in OU with a fighting resist berry, and it gives any one sweeper free setup. it's gimmicky, but it's the only way that umbreon actually wins battles, again after baiting scizor (and flygon i guess but fuck flygon you can see that u-turn coming from a mile away anyway)
@rl: yes, because curse tyranitar CAN beat starmie (protip: +1 payback is an ohko)
RL, if you want to advocate for a Curse set, take it elsewhere. Stop cluttering this thread up with your railing against a decision already made by QC.
GP Check 2 / 2
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Comments
[Overview]
<p>Umbreon is a bizarre Pokemon. He can fill quite a few roles effectively, but has to compete with so many outright better Pokemon for the job that he is left with basically nothing to himself. As a special tank, he must contend with the behemoth that is Blissey, and as a Curse sweeper, he will always live in the shadow of Tyranitar. As a result of this, Umbreon's usage truly is bottom of the barrel in OU.</p>
<p>It's not all bad for Umbreon, however. Umbreon's value for Baton Pass teams is unquestioned with his ability to pass the coveted Mean Look. Outside of that, Umbreon likes long walks on the beach under moonlight, a good horror flick, and popcorn. If that weren't enough to convince you to use him, he also happens to be one of the most adorable Pokemon in the tier. More realistically, though, if you're not using Umbreon to Baton Pass Mean Look, don't use Umbreon.</p>
[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Mean Look
move 3: Wish
move 4: Taunt / Yawn / Protect
item: Leftovers / Chople Berry
ability: Synchronize
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Fortunately for Umbreon, he happens to be the best at one thing and one thing alone: Baton Passing Mean Look. Mean Look's value may not be obvious at first glance, but with further investigation, it can sometimes mean the difference between winning a game with a Baton Pass team or losing it. Mean Look prevents the opponent from switching out, potentially allowing your Baton Pass chain to complete unopposed if you play your cards right.</p>
<p>Baton Pass and Mean Look form the basis of this set, allowing Umbreon to lock an opponent in in an opponent and then pass off to something that can set up on whatever is stuck out trapped. Wish is a very good move to have in a Baton Pass chain, healing whatever you Baton Pass to or keeping Umbreon healthy as he tries to accomplish his job. In the last slot, Taunt is the preferred move. It is of utmost importance that Umbreon get off a Taunt first so as to not get Taunted when attempting to setup. Yawn can be incredibly valuable for forcing a second switch after your opponent's primary switch-in to Umbreon rears its ugly head. If this plays out right, Umbreon will be able to use Mean Look as the opponent brings out a mediocre Umbreon check at best. Protect is still an option to guarantee that Umbreon's Wish heals him, though, and can be useful in certain circumstances.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EV spread is pretty straightforward for what Umbreon is trying to achieve with this set. 128 Speed EVs allow Umbreon to outspeed Aerodactyl and other base 130 Speed Pokemon after +2 Speed has been passed to him. This is important so that Umbreon can Taunt Aerodactyl first before he can Taunt Umbreon. 252 HP EVs are used to maximize Umbreon's general bulk, with the remaining 128 EVs placed in Special Defense so that Umbreon can better sustain the hits he typically switches into. As with the EVs, a Careful nature is used to boost Umbreon's already stellar Special Defense stat. Leftovers is the primary item on this set to add to Umbreon's durability, but Chople Berry can be very valuable in successfully getting off that one pivotal Mean Look pass against the Fighting-type Pokemon Umbreon lures.</p>
<p>This set doesn't necessarily have to be used on a dedicated Baton Pass team. Umbreon, when paired with Gyarados, for instance, can trap something like Scizor, survive an attack with a Chople Berry, and pass to Gyarados for an immense sweep. Other good teammates for shallow passes are Dragonite and Gliscor with Dragon Dance and Swords Dance, respectively.</p>
<p>As tempting as it might be, don't try to pair Umbreon with Ninjask. You're going to want to use Gliscor and Zapdos for Speed boosts on a Baton Pass chain that includes Umbreon. Zapdos can OHKO or scare off most of the Taunt users in the tier, while Gliscor has access to his own Taunt. Serendipitously, Gliscor and Zapdos both resist all of the attacking types that Umbreon is weak to, while Umbreon will happily take on Ice-type attacks with his great special bulk. As if this combination weren't already good enough, Scizor, the most common offensive Umbreon switch-in, is stopped cold by Zapdos. Since Umbreon will typically be setting up on Pokemon with physical attacks, Fighting-type attacks, or Taunt, a bulky Pokemon that boosts its own Defense is recommended. Scizor makes an excellent Iron Defense and Swords Dance Baton Passing Pokemon with respectable physical bulk, while Gliscor can set up Swords Dance and Rock Polish. If you don't use Yawn on Umbreon and can somehow get Smeargle in safely to use Spore, he can manage a Belly Drum pass and checkmate your opponent with relative ease.</p>
[Team Options]
<p>The best partners for Umbreon are Flying- and Ghost-type Pokemon because they resist the two attacking types that Umbreon is weak to. Zapdos, Gyarados, Gliscor, Dragonite, and Rotom-A all make excellent partners for this reason. They are all respectably bulky and can switch into Scizor and the Fighting-type Pokemon that Umbreon lures. Gliscor and Zapdos make the best Baton Pass partners with their ability to send Rock Polish and Agility, respectively, to Umbreon. On offensive teams where Umbreon is being used for shallow passing, Gyarados and Dragonite make excellent teammates for being able to set up Dragon Dance and take on typical responses to Umbreon.</p>
[Optional Changes]
<p>Umbreon's movepool is about as barren as most Eevee evolutions. He has access to attacking moves in the form of Payback, Pursuit, and Dark Pulse to do some damage, but with those attacking stats, "some" damage is an overstatement. On the support side, Umbreon has Moonlight, Fake Tears, Screech, and Confuse Ray. Moonlight is almost always worse than Wish in a sandstorm-infested metagame, while the rest of the aforementioned options are underwhelming at best.</p>
<p>Umbreon can run a set of Curse, Payback, Wish, and Protect to attempt a sweep. Tyranitar runs this set better on almost all counts, though, with much higher Special Defense after the sandstorm boost, better HP, the ability to take status, and an almost absurdly higher Attack stat. The only reason you might use Umbreon over Tyranitar is that he doesn't have Tyranitar's Water-, Grass-, Ground-, Steel-, and extra Fighting-type weaknesses. Umbreon can also attempt to run a Wish support set for his team, but Blissey uses the same set infinitely better with her obscene special bulk. Umbreon can also make use of Baton Pass in one more way by passing Curse boosts to sweepers, but it is largely ineffective, (comma) and those turns are better spent having other Pokemon pass Swords Dance or Agility boosts.</p>
[Counters]
<p>Just about anything with a high-power Fighting-type attack will send Umbreon reeling. Scizor is an especially terrifying response to Umbreon because it can maim him with U-turn and also scout your switch-in. Heracross, Machamp, Lucario, and Infernape all give Umbreon a lot of problems by resisting Dark-type attacks and threatening to OHKO in return. Despite the fact that Umbreon is not physically frail, the majority of super-powered physical attackers in OU, such as Metagross and Tyranitar, will shred Umbreon to pieces with neutral STAB attacks. Taunt users in Aerodactyl, Gyarados, and Azelf will give Umbreon issues if he is without an attack. Gyarados also threatens to set up on Umbreon, making him that much more deadly.</p>
<p>Umbreon is a bizarre Pokemon. He can fill quite a few roles effectively, but has to compete with so many outright better Pokemon for the job that he is left with basically nothing to himself. As a special tank, he must contend with the behemoth that is Blissey, and as a Curse sweeper, he will always live in the shadow of Tyranitar. As a result of this, Umbreon's usage truly is bottom of the barrel in OU.</p>
<p>It's not all bad for Umbreon, however. Umbreon's value for Baton Pass teams is unquestioned with his ability to pass the coveted Mean Look. Outside of that, Umbreon likes long walks on the beach under moonlight, a good horror flick, and popcorn. If that weren't enough to convince you to use him, he also happens to be one of the most adorable Pokemon in the tier. More realistically, though, if you're not using Umbreon to Baton Pass Mean Look, don't use Umbreon.</p>
[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Mean Look
move 3: Wish
move 4: Taunt / Yawn / Protect
item: Leftovers / Chople Berry
ability: Synchronize
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 128 SpD / 128 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Fortunately for Umbreon, he happens to be the best at one thing and one thing alone: Baton Passing Mean Look. Mean Look's value may not be obvious at first glance, but with further investigation, it can sometimes mean the difference between winning a game with a Baton Pass team or losing it. Mean Look prevents the opponent from switching out, potentially allowing your Baton Pass chain to complete unopposed if you play your cards right.</p>
<p>Baton Pass and Mean Look form the basis of this set, allowing Umbreon to lock an opponent in in an opponent and then pass off to something that can set up on whatever is stuck out trapped. Wish is a very good move to have in a Baton Pass chain, healing whatever you Baton Pass to or keeping Umbreon healthy as he tries to accomplish his job. In the last slot, Taunt is the preferred move. It is of utmost importance that Umbreon get off a Taunt first so as to not get Taunted when attempting to setup. Yawn can be incredibly valuable for forcing a second switch after your opponent's primary switch-in to Umbreon rears its ugly head. If this plays out right, Umbreon will be able to use Mean Look as the opponent brings out a mediocre Umbreon check at best. Protect is still an option to guarantee that Umbreon's Wish heals him, though, and can be useful in certain circumstances.</p>
[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EV spread is pretty straightforward for what Umbreon is trying to achieve with this set. 128 Speed EVs allow Umbreon to outspeed Aerodactyl and other base 130 Speed Pokemon after +2 Speed has been passed to him. This is important so that Umbreon can Taunt Aerodactyl first before he can Taunt Umbreon. 252 HP EVs are used to maximize Umbreon's general bulk, with the remaining 128 EVs placed in Special Defense so that Umbreon can better sustain the hits he typically switches into. As with the EVs, a Careful nature is used to boost Umbreon's already stellar Special Defense stat. Leftovers is the primary item on this set to add to Umbreon's durability, but Chople Berry can be very valuable in successfully getting off that one pivotal Mean Look pass against the Fighting-type Pokemon Umbreon lures.</p>
<p>This set doesn't necessarily have to be used on a dedicated Baton Pass team. Umbreon, when paired with Gyarados, for instance, can trap something like Scizor, survive an attack with a Chople Berry, and pass to Gyarados for an immense sweep. Other good teammates for shallow passes are Dragonite and Gliscor with Dragon Dance and Swords Dance, respectively.</p>
<p>As tempting as it might be, don't try to pair Umbreon with Ninjask. You're going to want to use Gliscor and Zapdos for Speed boosts on a Baton Pass chain that includes Umbreon. Zapdos can OHKO or scare off most of the Taunt users in the tier, while Gliscor has access to his own Taunt. Serendipitously, Gliscor and Zapdos both resist all of the attacking types that Umbreon is weak to, while Umbreon will happily take on Ice-type attacks with his great special bulk. As if this combination weren't already good enough, Scizor, the most common offensive Umbreon switch-in, is stopped cold by Zapdos. Since Umbreon will typically be setting up on Pokemon with physical attacks, Fighting-type attacks, or Taunt, a bulky Pokemon that boosts its own Defense is recommended. Scizor makes an excellent Iron Defense and Swords Dance Baton Passing Pokemon with respectable physical bulk, while Gliscor can set up Swords Dance and Rock Polish. If you don't use Yawn on Umbreon and can somehow get Smeargle in safely to use Spore, he can manage a Belly Drum pass and checkmate your opponent with relative ease.</p>
[Team Options]
<p>The best partners for Umbreon are Flying- and Ghost-type Pokemon because they resist the two attacking types that Umbreon is weak to. Zapdos, Gyarados, Gliscor, Dragonite, and Rotom-A all make excellent partners for this reason. They are all respectably bulky and can switch into Scizor and the Fighting-type Pokemon that Umbreon lures. Gliscor and Zapdos make the best Baton Pass partners with their ability to send Rock Polish and Agility, respectively, to Umbreon. On offensive teams where Umbreon is being used for shallow passing, Gyarados and Dragonite make excellent teammates for being able to set up Dragon Dance and take on typical responses to Umbreon.</p>
[Optional Changes]
<p>Umbreon's movepool is about as barren as most Eevee evolutions. He has access to attacking moves in the form of Payback, Pursuit, and Dark Pulse to do some damage, but with those attacking stats, "some" damage is an overstatement. On the support side, Umbreon has Moonlight, Fake Tears, Screech, and Confuse Ray. Moonlight is almost always worse than Wish in a sandstorm-infested metagame, while the rest of the aforementioned options are underwhelming at best.</p>
<p>Umbreon can run a set of Curse, Payback, Wish, and Protect to attempt a sweep. Tyranitar runs this set better on almost all counts, though, with much higher Special Defense after the sandstorm boost, better HP, the ability to take status, and an almost absurdly higher Attack stat. The only reason you might use Umbreon over Tyranitar is that he doesn't have Tyranitar's Water-, Grass-, Ground-, Steel-, and extra Fighting-type weaknesses. Umbreon can also attempt to run a Wish support set for his team, but Blissey uses the same set infinitely better with her obscene special bulk. Umbreon can also make use of Baton Pass in one more way by passing Curse boosts to sweepers, but it is largely ineffective, (comma) and those turns are better spent having other Pokemon pass Swords Dance or Agility boosts.</p>
[Counters]
<p>Just about anything with a high-power Fighting-type attack will send Umbreon reeling. Scizor is an especially terrifying response to Umbreon because it can maim him with U-turn and also scout your switch-in. Heracross, Machamp, Lucario, and Infernape all give Umbreon a lot of problems by resisting Dark-type attacks and threatening to OHKO in return. Despite the fact that Umbreon is not physically frail, the majority of super-powered physical attackers in OU, such as Metagross and Tyranitar, will shred Umbreon to pieces with neutral STAB attacks. Taunt users in Aerodactyl, Gyarados, and Azelf will give Umbreon issues if he is without an attack. Gyarados also threatens to set up on Umbreon, making him that much more deadly.</p>
Deletions
Corrections
Comments
Thanks for that. Your few changes have been implemented as listed.
