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Umbreon

Discussion in 'BW Ubers' started by Melee Mewtwo, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Umbreon[​IMG]
    Synchronize / inner Focus (DW) ability
    95 HP / 65 Atk / 110 Def / 60 SpA / 130 SpD / 65 Spe​

    <PROBS> someone make a topic on it
    <PROBS> and we can posts calcs on it
    <PROBS> in ubers sub forum
    <PROBS> pls

    Okay so since I'm out of open, I've decided to leak a secret weapon of mine that I was planning for some sickass Stall. Not kidding this thing is fucking amazing, it can check shit like Palkia, Mewtwo and even CM Draco Latios. It's got a shit ton of tools like Foul Play, Taunt, Snatch, Heal Bell, and Wish.

    Go ahead and discuss this thing and what it means for Ubers stall and the metagame in general.[/hype]

    252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in rain: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.83%) -- 23.83% chance to 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 177-208 (44.92 - 52.79%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +1 252 SpA Soul Dew Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 309-364 (78.42 - 92.38%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    (didn't add SR cause Protect cancels out the damage)


    Edit: Lol, looks like some gay touched my post. What's up with that formatting?
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2013
  2. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Lol what is he babbling about: there aren't even any common/good taunt users in the tier- nothing to worry about there. Honestly, ferro and forry etc are taunt bait too lol, still good mons.

    It has taunt and is faster than ferro and forry. Not exactly spike bait.

    Terrakion isn't exactly hard to check lol, it always runs scarf so you just protect scout its move and switch.

    Genesect takes 40% approx from foul play, still an issue but it's not like some KO machine just walks in on you...

    And sub ho-oh bait... When ho-oh cant sub since foul play breaks it. Honestly, there are mons viable tjat are way more ho-oh bait. Of course umby is niche, but use real arguments if you want to dismiss it.
  3. Punchshroom

    Punchshroom para is worse than sleep
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    It's not so much Umbreon is terrible in Ubers, but it does face a lot of 4MSS. 3 of its moveslots are already occupied by Foul Play, Wish and Protect. Then it either wants Heal Bell for support (more for itself so Toxic doesn't bone it), Taunt to stop hazards, and Snatch to steal Sub or Calm Minds and stuff. Umbreon can work to an extent, but is fairly exposed to a good deal of threats in Ubers no matter what it does.
  4. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    I don't think it has 4mss syndrome as much as more good moves than moveslots. Like Foul Play/Taunt/Wish/Protect gives you everything you would want out of Umbreon pretty much but the team may want some Heal Bell or maybe for him to Toxic shit or whatever.

    Also I botched the calcs, I took out SR because of Protect but I forgot to take out Leftovers, too.

    252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon in rain: 186-220 (47.2 - 55.83%) -- 78.52% chance to 2HKO

    252 SpA Life Orb Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 177-208 (44.92 - 52.79%) -- 22.66% chance to 2HKO

    These two aren't as exciting as before but you can still sorta call Umby a check to Palkia since it walls it if you don't switch into its Surf.
    Hack likes this.
  5. Blim

    Blim
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    Nice, thanks for sharing this. Definitely gonna have to give Umbreon a try. The key thing it has over Blissey / Chansey is it's dark typing obviously, so it won't be getting mauled by Mewtwo's Psystrike [which is huge]. Foul Play is pretty cool too, allows you get past stuff like sub cm arc ghost which the pink boobs can't accomplish. I don't think the 4MSS is much of an issue, the 4th move should depend on what your team needs. If you're using a full stall team then you probably want Heal Bell to protect your team from crippling status, on a more balanced team you're probably looking at toxic.
    Furai likes this.
  6. Gogeta

    Gogeta

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    Might have to try this on sun stall. Umbreon does get access to Moonlight, making it an interesting alternative to Cresselia, and hard checks any Palkia without Aura Sphere, who needs a boost to 2HKO with Aura Sphere. A sun stall set of:

    -Moonlight
    -Foul Play
    -Heal Bell
    -Taunt

    Definitely looks like it has serious potential. Hell maybe you could use Cress and something like Fightceus alongside it, forming a formidable Dark/Fighting/Psychic defensive core, which when coupled with the titanic bulk of Groudon, could prove to be seriously legit. This is just theorymon right now, but I'll be sure to test this when I get the chance, with replays.
  7. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    I strongly dislike Moonlight because of that shitty 8 pp. If it was just weather reliant it would be one thing but fuck that, idk why GF hates it so much.

    Inner Focus is cute, btw. Fuck Skymin.
  8. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
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    Uhhh yeah, Froslass, Deoxys-S/D, Mewtwo and Skarm are pretty bad :/
  9. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Yeah but two of those are suicide leads you won't lead against, couldn't find any stats for how much taunt was used on M2, but you hit that with foul play anyway. Skarm= point taken but it's not the most common thing either.

    Edit: Forgot Deoxys-D, shouldn't be the hardest to handle with a stall build probably including Tenta or Forry.
  10. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    There's no point splitting hairs on how common Taunt is. We can all agree that it's uncommon and that it was a dumb argument to present against Umbreon seeing as just about every wall gets screwed with by Taunt. (the whole point of Taunt is to bust stall lol)
  11. Edgar

    Edgar Lordsquads,,
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    Not trying to start an argument, you just there weren't any good taunt users, I just named a few :]
  12. Hack

    Hack formerly Hack He Must
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    Yeah okay, bad wording on my part :(
  13. Double Electric

    Double Electric

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    It's worth mentioning that Dark-Arceus's support set has a lot of advantages over Umbreon if by some chance your Arceus slot isn't taken up by something else.

    Really, the most viable set is probably this:

    [​IMG]
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
    @Leftovers
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Foul Play
    - Taunt/Toxic/Heal Bell

    Wish, Foul Play and Leftovers are three important things Dark Arceus doesn't have, so you might as well make the most of it. For what its worth, Arceus can't Taunt either. (Not that it needs to).
  14. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Taunt is actually really cool so that the likes of Ferrothorn doesn't just sit there Spiking in your face. Plus, being able to save your Arceus forme is really helpful as some mons, like Ho-Oh, don't really have much switch-ins besides Arceus.
  15. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Man I wish this thing had Roar
  16. Kejmur

    Kejmur

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    And only Skarmory resists Foul Play, while other free take pretty decent (and heavy damage in case of first two) from STAB Foul Play. Interesting idea to try on anyway, as Umbreon's special bulk is at least good even in Ubers standards if invested. But honestly if I can afford, I still prefer something like SpD Tyranitar or Dark Arceus for my Dark type in Ubers, but I admit that Umbreon has pretty decent niche.
  17. Donkey

    Donkey

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    I beat poppy with this a long time ago on my Eevee evolution team. Poppy isn't very good at mons but he's ok at Doto
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  18. trickroom

    trickroom
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    Umbreon has Wish, and surprising bulk, I think it might have some niche use. It isn't weak to Surf like Tyranitar, and +2 Brick Break from Arceus doesn't even OHKO Umbreon. Foul Play strikes a +2 Arceus for some decent damage so you are not setup bait for SD Arceus like Blissey.

    Taunt is very important move for Umbreon, as now Ferrothorn and Forretress can't do anything. Well Forretress can still Rapid Spin so you have to predict around it. No Roar sucks :( Vaporeon gets it but not Umbreon?
    Pikachuun likes this.

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