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Under the Sun, We Were Gods (Peaked at #34)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Forte.EXE, May 21, 2011.

  1. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    Well, as the first ever Generation V UnderUsed Suspect Testing comes to a close, I figured now would be a good a time as any to post the team I used during the entire testing period. One of my favorite, and best, teams since my Dream World OU Drizzle team. As you can probably guess, this team is a Drought focused team, revolving around four different Pokemon that all take advantage of the Sun.

    Leaderboard (open)
    [​IMG]


    Team Building Process (open)

    Well, I know that I wanted to use a Drought team. When I first started using it, it was expected, but no one had any truly specific counters to it. So, Vulpix was the designated first Pokemon.

    [​IMG]

    Alright, I've got the Pokemon that brings in the Sun, now I need some Pokemon that can abuse it. First Pokemon that came to mind is Tangrowth. With rather good HP and Defense stats (100 and 125, respectively), along with great offensive stats (100 and 110), Tangrowth has the option of going Physical, Special, or Mixed, which can play a lot of mind games with opponents. The mass of green vines can also weather a hit and boost up to KO a Pokemon, so Tangrowth was an easy choice.

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Alright, now, I already have a decent idea of what my Tangrowth move-set is going to be, so now I need a Pokemon that counters the every annoying Chansey. Victreebel, with its Grass/Poison typing, has an immunity to Toxic, the more common of the two Status moves Chansey can utilize. And with that, Victreebel is added to the team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, I wanted needed something insanely fast (under the Sun) that could abuse Chlorophyll, but could also actually attack (sorry, Jumpluff, maybe next time). With Venusaur off playing in OU, that leaves the Leafeon and Sawsbuck. Now, Leafeon has a better Defense stat, and it doesn't have a vulnerability to something like Technician Hitmontop. However, Sawsbuck has two useful STABs in Grass and Normal, and when paired with Nature Power (which becomes Earthquake on Pokemon Online), has near unresisted coverage in UU, and it even has a chance of resistance to Ghost-type attacks. The choice was clear, Sawsbuck was on the team.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Around the time I was making this team, the Event Victini had finally been released, meaning that V-Create and Fusion Bolt were both available for use. V-Create has a base power of 405 under the Sun, so it wasn't even a question, Victini was already a member.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Alright, I've got five Pokemon on this team. Problem is, now I don't have a Pokemon that can counter Hail! Everyone was raving about Thick Fat Curse Snorlax being able to counter both Sun and Hail, so I figured I should give it a shot. Curse Snorlax would also give me another Pokemon capable of dealing with Chansey, so that's always good.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Snorlax didn't perform even nearly as well as I felt it should. Maybe I was using it wrong or something, but I just couldn't get the hang of it. I also began to notice that entry hazards were taking a hard toll on my team. So, I swapped out Snorlax for a Pokemon that could counter Hail as well as get rid of entry hazards. Hitmontop, spin, spin away.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With the final addition of Hitmontop, the team creation process was completed.

    Team Building Process (open)


    Team At A Glance
    _|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG][​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_​

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Vulpix @ Eviolite
    Ability: Drought
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP | 156 Def | 100 SpD
    [​IMG] - Flamethrower
    [​IMG] - Will-o-Wisp
    [​IMG] - Confuse Ray
    [​IMG] - Toxic

    Weather, all day, every day. The EVs give Vulpix the defenses of a 0/0 Hitmontop (IIRC), which isn't too horrible. Flamethrower is mostly so Vulpix won't be complete Taunt-bait, and has an attack for hitting Abomasnow if it tries to stay in. Will-o-Wisp and Toxic are solely for crippling Pokemon that come in and try to set-up, like Donphan and Deoxys-D. Standard 0 Spe Donphan is slower than 0 Spe Vulpix, giving me a chance to Burn it and switch out to Tangrowth to give it a chance to set-up. Toxic is around for hitting bulky Water-types on the switch, like Slowbro, and nailing Kyurem on the switch. Confuse Ray is mostly just for annoying the shit out of my opponents and helping me to stall for extra Burn / Toxic damage. As weak as Vulpix is, both defensive and offensively, it remains a vital part of the team.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Tangrowth @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Growth
    [​IMG] - Sleep Powder
    [​IMG] - Hidden Power [Fire]
    [​IMG] - Giga Drain

    TANGROWTH! The mass of vines came to party. Tangrowth has quite a bit going for it. Growth, Sleep Powder, a newly upgraded Giga Drain, and some pretty decent HP and Defense. Tangrowth is usually the first line of offense, wiping out Pokemon after Pokemon with +2 Giga Drain + Hidden Power [Fire]. Of course, there are some Pokemon that cause that combination of moves some problems, such as Flash Fire Arcanine and Houndoom. However, the pros far outweigh the cons of using only those two moves, as running Sleep Powder in the second slot gives Tangrowth more time to set up and can remove a pesky counter from the game.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Victreebel @ Leftovers
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Lonely
    EVs: 252 Atk | 54 SpA | 200 Spe
    [​IMG] - Growth
    [​IMG] - Sleep Powder
    [​IMG] - Power Whip
    [​IMG] - Sludge Bomb

    Victreebel became necessary when I noticed that Tangrowth was insanely Chansey-weak. Victreebel can come in on Chansey as it tries to use Toxic on Tangrowth and go to town, setting up multiple Growths and Power Whipping his way through the opponent's team. Sadly, Power Whip is illegal with both Sucker Punch and Weather Ball, and I'd rather not use Hidden Power [Fire], so I went with Sludge Bomb. +1 Power Whip + +2 Sludge Bomb usually KOs defensive Arcanine sets, as well as defensive Rotom-h. Registeel is a small issue, along with Escavalier, due to the fact that both of them either 4x resist my attack or are completely immune to it (Power Whip and Sludge Bomb, respectively). Those two are the main reasons why I'm still considering running HP Fire over Sludge Bomb, but then I'm rather weak against Rotom-h and Arcanine, two Pokemon that are a problem for this team otherwise.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Swords Dance
    [​IMG] - Horn Leech
    [​IMG] - Frustration
    [​IMG] - Nature Power

    I'd say that Sawsbuck is the best Chlorophyll sweeper, behind Venusaur of course. It's got nearly unresisted coverage (damn you, Rotom), a decent base 80 speed, and very nice base 100 attack, which can be boosted even higher with Swords Dance. Sawsbuck also comes with its own recovery in the form of Horn Leech, so Life Orb recoil isn't constantly hammering the shit out of me. Frustration over Return because I always forget to put in max happiness on my Pokemon, and Nature Power becomes Earthquake on Pokemon Online. Sawsbuck usually lures out Technician Hitmontop, which can be walled and set-up on by Tangrowth, supposing they don't carry Toxic.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Victini @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Victory Star
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - V-Create
    [​IMG] - Fusion Bolt
    [​IMG] -- U-turn
    [​IMG] - Zen Headbutt

    Scarf Victini is rarely, if ever, expected by my opponent. After one V-Create, I'm still left with just over 300 Speed, enough to hit a non-Scarfed Kyurem or something similar with another V-Create before switching out. Fusion Bolt is really only for bulky Water-types that are close to being KOed, and the same goes for Zen Headbutt. U-turn is completely for momentum and hitting switch-ins for some decent damage before getting out of there. Most of the time, I'm just spamming V-Create with Victini and KOing something.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Hitmontop @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 HP | 252 Atk | 4 Spe
    [​IMG] - Fake Out
    [​IMG] - Mach Punch
    [​IMG] - Bullet Punch
    [​IMG] - Rapid Spin

    Hitmontop is one of my favorite Pokemon, and luckily enough, he's very usable in this metagame. Priority Technician boosted Fake Out, Mach Punch, and Bullet Punch go a long way in beating threats that can boost up their Speed, like a weakened Yanmega. Rapid Spin is sitting in the last slot because entry hazards are a bitch, and most Ghost-types are beaten by either Tangrowth or Victreebel, leaving Hitmontop to spin without issue. I've been considering Leftovers over Life Orb, to help Hitmontop's longevity, but for that, it'd be better to just switch to a bulkier set in general. Hitmontop also helps to beat standard Hail teams that run Abomasnow, Kyurem, Froslass, Weavile, Mamoswine, etc, etc.

    So, there you have it. I'm pretty much done with this team, but there's still (at the time of writing this) three more days for climbing up the ladder to qualify for Suspect voting. Read, rate, steal, etc, etc.
  2. DarthChocoboz

    DarthChocoboz

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2010
    Messages:
    816
    Hey Cool team a few things.

    Vulpix can work very well as a stall pokemon with protect and so instead of haxing your opponent and causing many people to throw their computers out of the window in frustration. Protect also alllows you to scout switches and see what is your best option for what you're trying to do and set up a sweep for one of your sweepers. I would also run FIre Blast on vulpix as it has awful sp atk and needs all the power it can get.

    Next is you have 2 sweepers with a sleeping move an awful coverage. I mean Posion and Grass is really awful so on vidtory bell i would suggest using Hidden Power ground to hit posion and steel types. While tangrowth is walled by fir types and i would suggest using Earthquake on it and giving it a Naive nature. Both of these moves over Sleep Powder as they arn't neccesary as both of them can take a hit.

    Next is if you're having trouble with chansey you can use hi jump kick on sawsbuck. WHile using sucker punch on hitmontop can help you deal with ghosts tyring to block your spin.

    Yjays all hope i helped ;)
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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    I'm not going to go in-depth here, but I'm going to give some food for thought.

    Get rid of Confuse Ray on Vulpix. It's so stupid, and while annoying, annoying isn't a reason to use it. I personally run Fire Blast / Will-O-Wisp / Hypnosis / Toxic. It's fun because I get to "pick my poison" literally, and I run Fire Blast simply because I love missing (sarcasm included). I also run a full 252 HP / 252 SpD ev spread simply because Vulpix isn't going to live any Earthquakes anyway, and I'd rather take Scalds a little better.

    As for Tangrowth and Victreebel. I actually hate them both as sun sweepers. Tangrowth because it's freaking slow and weak special defensively. Victreebel because it's just soooooo frail. I'd recommend Lilligant and Shiftry in their places. Lilligant with a simple Sleep Powder / Quiver Dance / HP Fire / Giga Drain set. Ev spread up to you, but I found 252 HP / 252 Def quite effective. Shiftry can go mixed, physical, or special so take your pick. I found a full special set of Nasty Plot / Dark Pulse / Giga Drain / HP Fire to work the best, but a mixed set could work (though Shiftry doesn't get Growth). While Shiftry is just as frail as Victreebel, it's way more unpredictable and a little stronger, though it does lack Sleep Powder.

    I love Scarf Victini and Sawsbuck, great picks. The only suggestion there would be to use a Jolly nature on Sawsbuck. You basically get all the same KOs with the added bonus of outrunning Scarf Victini.

    Hitmontop is great.
  4. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
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    584
    Confuse Ray, I can kind of agree on. It was mostly there because Vulpix really didn't have shit else to use, and Hypnosis was missing all the damn time. I'll give Hypnosis another shot, even though Confuse Ray helped me stall out and beat a Kyurem and Chansey once. I'll also give the EV spread a whirl, but I'm not entirely sure on it.

    Lilligant I can try out, but no way to Shiftry. Shiftry adds another Pokemon onto my team that can be dealt with by Technician Hitmontop, and having two of my main sweepers weak to the same exact Pokemon. Seeing as I don't really have a great switch-in for Hitmontop in the first place, that really poses a problem. That's why I relied on Tangrowth so much, because it had that great defense. Victreebel I may replace, but then I'm going to need to find another Pokemon that can beat Chansey 90% of the time (fucking Thunder Wave Chanseys).

    And, just to be clear on this, Adamant Sawsbuck doesn't get any notable KOs compared to Jolly?
  5. Oglemi

    Oglemi it's me heysup's gay friend, the legendary gaysup
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    C&C Leader

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    Messages:
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    Oh I'm sure Adamant on Sawsbuck gets a couple of KOs that Jolly doesn't, but I honestly haven't had any downsides to using Jolly thus far. I would just say give it a shot, and if you don't like it, then go back to Adamant.

    As for Shiftry causing an extra Hitmontop weakness, that what my 252 HP / 252 Def Lilligant with Leftovers is for. It takes like ~20% from Fake Out and ~35% from Mach Punch, and then all of that is just healed off after a Giga Drain. Also, Victreebel might as well be called Hitmontop weak anyway. Doesn't it like take 80% from a combination of Fake Out and Bullet Punch?

    But, like I said, I'm just giving some quick suggestions. I'm not saying that "your team sucks use mine."
  6. kaonohiokala

    kaonohiokala

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    389
    Sleep Powder on both Tangrowth and Victreebel ruins the set-up availabilities for each other. I recommend changing Victreebel into an all-out special attacker with Growth/Weather Ball/Sludge Bomb/Giga Drain, and turning your Tangrowth into the mixed attacker, swapping Giga Drain for Power Whip (and you could also swap the hold items on Victreebel as well).

    For Sawsbuck, as mentioned above, Jolly is really the way to go. Sawsbuck is your last resort against enemy sun-team sweepers, and it can't afford to get beat out by other Sawsbuck. I also like the idea of Jump Kick on Sawsbuck, but it's your call there.

    For Victini, just an idea, but I prefer Brick Break over Zen Headbutt. It's a nasty surprise for Houndooms trying to come in and absorb V-Create. Zen Headbutt is also meh in that it allows you to get Pursuit-trapped by Dark-types (though you'd probably be smart enough not to use Zen Headbutt when Dark-types are on the team anyways).

    For Hitmontop, get rid of Bullet Punch. There are two options that are better suited for it in this situation: Close Combat and Foresight. Close Combat lets you deal real damage when you need it (which is actually very often). It's really the top option here, but you could also use Foresight to troll spin-blockers.
  7. gaburu

    gaburu

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    106
    Have you considered using psycho shock Exeggutor? It can use calm mind as opposed to growth and abuse sun with chlorophyll like Tangrowth/Victreebell. So, I would suggest it over Victreebell. It puts you at even more odds with Houndoom, but I couldn't see another answer (you could always consider hp fighting/hp rock or something). It also resists Hitmontop's mach punch and with careful prediction, you can avoid the sucker punch i.e. setting up.
    Probably something like:

    Exeggutor@Life Orb
    Ability:Chlorophyll
    Nature:Timid/Modest (You would have to look into speed tiers)
    Evs:4hp/252SpA/252Spe
    -Psycho Shock
    -Sleep Powder/Hidden Power
    -Giga Drain/Hidden Power
    -Calm Mind
  8. Juice!

    Juice!

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
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    Before I say anything else, let me say I REALLY like your team a lot. =)

    I didn't read all the comments because I have about 2 minutes until I have to leave, so if you've already heard these suggestions, then my bad. =P

    On Tangrowth, I would highly suggest going mixed, with a Naïve nature (I think that's the +Spe/-SpD nature?) and dropping Sleep Powder for Earthquake. Growth boosts both of your attacking stats, and this way you simply sit back and giggle when your opponent thinks they can wall you with Arcanine and other Flash Fire friends. Earthquake also means you can at least dent stuff like Snorlax and Chansey with something, too, as a last resort.

    On Victreebel, I personally don't like Power Whip, or Power Miss, as I call yet. I'd personally run Leaf Blade. While dropping from 120 BP to 90 BP may seem like a lot, I think it more than makes up for it with 100% accuracy and the increased critical hit rate. This also opens you up to run Sucker Punch or Weather Ball, if you'd like. If you choose Sucker Punch, then you don't even have to go mixed any more, and just go max Atk/max Spe.

    I also tend to use Jump Kick over Nature Power on Sawsbuck, but I only have used it in OU, where hitting Ferrothorn and Tyranitar (4x) is more important than anything I'd be hitting with Earthquake. Here it's really your call, although this way Rotom-H doesn't stop you, if that is a big concern of yours.

    Good luck!

    EDIT: I keep coming back to this thread, I REALLY like your team. I'm going to try it out myself and see if I notice any improvements to be made after actually playtesting it. Obviously I'll give you full credit if anyone asks about it. =)
  9. Agammemnon

    Agammemnon A wild Zubat appears!
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Providing Exeggutor learns CM... Which it doesn't.

    Also, why this special spread on Victreebel ?

    Otherwise, it's a pretty good abuse of Sun, I love it.
  10. Benlisted

    Benlisted

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    I do very much like this sun team, it's the reason I believed Chlorophyll to be broken in UU lol, when I saw it win that tourney the other day it convinced me pretty much :P.

    Anyway, as a quick rate (not sure of the point of this since Drought looks like it'll go), I agree that two Sleep Moves is pointless. Since Vic is frail as hell and you can't use Weather Ball I'd keep it on him, and give Tangrowth EQ, or simply go with Focus Blast if you don't mind the accuracy.

    Lum Berry on Vic could be useful if you hate T-Waves, and since Lefties isn't doing too much for him. Alternatively you could try Safeguard on Vulpix to help towards this end.

    Jump Kick>Nature Power gives better overall coverage for Sawsbuck, but I'm not too familiar with UU so it may not be as useful as it is in OU.
  11. Exploding Walrus

    Exploding Walrus

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    Jan 4, 2011
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    Use lugia, it's an amazing walling beast and resists the whole entire metagame
  12. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2010
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    So I faced you half a dozen times on the ladder and you know really how much my own team shits on this :P, but against an average team it's really solid. Strong, fast flying attacks really give you trouble though, especially considering 4 weaknesses and no resist. I would consider fitting a defensive Zapdos somewhere - possibly over Tangrowth. It can make use of the sun with boosted Heat Wave, and acts as a bulky flying resist with Thunderbolt to take on birds. It's not a foolproof situation, because half your team is so frail Staraptor can just spam double-edge anyway, but it's better than what you have now, and it does handily beat Drifblim.

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