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Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by asterat, Jun 27, 2012.

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  1. dragonuser

    dragonuser The only thing I look up to is the sky
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    Great set PDC!

    @BlankZero, Scolipede serves as an anti measure vs the abundance of Deoxys-D HO teams in this metagame. If your opponent doesn't have a Deoxys-D you can always use it as a revenger/suicide spiker.
  2. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    I believe I've posted a similar set in the OU Leads thread, so I can definitely attest to that set's effectiveness. I wasn't even aware Scolipede learned Pursuit though, which seems like a really interesting option.
  3. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    I can't see using it over Scizor though. Sure, the combo of Deo-D counter + Hazards is really nice, and I may play around with it at some point.

    I'm just asking what kind of niche does it fill that another pokemon couldn't fill more efficiently?
  4. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

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    I've used Scolipede a ton, and I can also concurr that it's damn good. Bug Gem Megahorn is suprisingly strong, OHKOing stuff like offensive Rotom, Tyranitar and the mentioned Deoxys. Nobody expects earthquake from it either for some reason, so its often able to smash Heatran for big damage while they set rocks, Spike on the switch and play from there. (Offensive Heatran is OHKOd, 252 HP takes about 80%)

    It's an offensive Spiker that beats Deoxys-D, revenge kills Lati@s, OHKOing all common spreads except physically defense Latias with SR, and it has just enough attack to opportunistically pick things off with its various moves. I ran Rock Slide over Pursuit since it limits the number of boosts Dragonite can feasibly get and I didn't find things I wanted to trap would often switch out, but otherwise my set was identical.

    I have also used Focus Sash on it to beat SR Terrakion, but I think Bug Gem is the better choice overall. A Terrakion will sometimes go for Taunt/Stone Edge T1 anyway, in which case you can 2HKO with EQ.
  5. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    It's a faster Spikes user than Deoxys-D and has much more of an offensive presence. Whilst it is outclassed in each of its individual qualities (e.g. Scizor as an offensive Bug type), what it offers is a particular mix of support and offense that isn't seen in much else.

    EDIT: Ninja'd
  6. DrunkDemon

    DrunkDemon

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    The Fluffy Menace! (Prepare for a bit of an essay, because I know this is going to require some explanation.)

    [​IMG]
    Altaria @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cloud Nine
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roost
    - Roar / Haze
    - Heal Bell

    I know, I know, what am I thinking? At first glance, it seems like Altaria is outclassed in pretty much every aspect. Dragon Dance sets are inferior to every other Dragon Dancer - and every sweeper really - in the tier, it's bulk is actually not bad, but Latias, Dragonite, and even Salamence seem to perform better in defensive roles due to their abilities, movepools and/or stats. Since it's inception it seems to have been doomed to roam the lower tiers. But with the advent of BW, Altaria got something that really turned around it's viability in OU: Cloud Nine. This is a really anti-metagame ability, since it completely removes the effects of weather while Altaria is in play. This allows it to make deceptive use of it's bulk, since between it's key resistances and any weather boost to Fire or Water moves being removed, it can easily shrug off attacks. For reference, Altaria takes weather-boosted attacks almost two times better than standard Latias.

    Of course this sounds great on paper, but to understand how Altaria actually fares against weather we have to look at how it stacks up against common threats on weather teams. Here are some examples of how surprisingly beefy Altaria is:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 102-120 (28.81 - 33.89%)

    +1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Altaria: 137-162 (38.7 - 45.76%)

    Yeah, it's that good. (Even HP Rock Volcarona gets phazed if Stealth Rock isn't up.) Just this alone is unique, and would give Altaria reason enough to have some use, but it doesn't stop there. I took a look at several prominent Rain and Sun threats, 14 to be exact, and Altaria is able to check at least some variants of 10 of them. Just to list them out, they are: Politoed, Keldeo, Gyarados, Rotom-W, Thundurus-T(Scarf, you should really have another response to this though), Tentacruel, Toxicroak, Ninetales, Venusaur, and Volcarona.

    You might be thinking things couldn't get any better for Altaria, but there are still a few perks it has. To start, it isn't trapped by Dugtrio. This is huge, since it's quite common to see Dugtrio used as a way to eliminate certain weather checks. Heatran, for example, is commonly forced to use the awful Shed Shell in order to prevent combinations like GeneTrio from running it over. Altaria has no such problem. Second, it has reliable recovery. Using Heatran as an example again, although it's not particularly vulnerable to hazards, is prone to getting worn down quite a bit over the course of matches, often resulting in it being incapable of walling it's intended threats. Altaria is weak to Stealth Rock due to it's Flying-type, so this is crucial to its' success as a defensive Pokemon. Finally, it also gets some nifty support moves you don't see too much of in OU. I generally prefer to use Roar, but Haze is insanely useful against Baton Pass, which even well-built Stall teams often auto-lose to. Heal Bell is also really great, since it supports your team excellently, and prevents defensive variants of Ninetales, Politoed, and Tentacruel from wearing it down with status.

    Unfortunately, there are some ways in which Altaria falls short. What stands out the most is it's 4x weakness to Ice; a lot of Pokemon wield these moves, and it seriously hurts our fluffy friend's walling capabilities, since there are certain threats - and variants of threats - that Altaria absolutely cannot hope to defeat. Altaria is also incapable of walling Genesect and Tornadus-T. This is quite unfortunate, as they're arguably THE offensive threats in the current metagame (I guess you can get lucky with a Hurricane miss against Tornadus, though). Stealth Rock also hurts Altaria some, as although it can still wall the threats in needs too, it will have a more difficult time switching in repeatedly. Finally, it also struggles with Dragon types, since they can easily pummel it with their super-powered STAB moves. This isn't anywhere near the end of the world, though. Specially Defensive Rotom-W, for example, solves three of these issues easily.

    Here's a log of Altaria in action:
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou3525583

    Possibly more to come.

    In summary, Altaria is criminally underrated, and should at least be considered on teams ranging from Stall to Balance that struggle with weather.
  7. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Holy crap.

    I may have to look into that set on my team... Why can't I have 7 Pokemon!?
  8. Yeah Galo Sengan

    Yeah Galo Sengan

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    That is an extremely creative way of handling weather in OU, kudos.
  9. Delta Nite

    Delta Nite

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    [​IMG]

    Gengar @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Counter
    - Destiny Bond
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hypnosis

    Altough it requires a bit of ballsy prediction, with this set Gengar more than often incapacitates 1-2 of your opponent's Pokémon. In the best scenario, you can put 1 Pokémon to sleep, pull off a Counter KO and go out with a Bang, I mean, Bond. Shadow Ball is used as a no brainer against common taunt users, and it can be awesome in some cases your opponent switches Espeon in predicting Hypnosis. And believe me, that happens a lot.
  10. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Believe it or not, after seeing someone go off on PO how terrible this thing was, I decided to put it on my well rounded weatherless team that I've had great success with, and she could take the place of Latias for a while. So far, she's actually doing a remarkable job on my team, and I think she deserves some recognition.

    [​IMG]
    The Bitch (Gothitelle) (F) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature
    - Psychic/Psyshock
    - Thunderbolt
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ice/Fire

    Yea I'm talking about this bitch. The goth girl reject that even with the release of her new and awesome ability, she still has seemed to be turned down in favor of Dugtrio due to her lack of power and speed. However, with Choice Specs her mediocre power is patched up, and with max HP she can revenge trap anything that's weak to her moves. In my opinion, she is one of my favorite Terrakion counters ever. With max HP investment, she can switch into a Close Combat, and live another one, and OHKO it with Psychic. She's also great for dealing with walls like Jellicent, and even Reuniclus. I find her most useful on a non weather team, but she's great in weather too especially if your using Sun because she can trap Politoad. Psychic is for Terrakion, Conkeldurr, and Toxicroak. Psyshock is a better alternative for Tentacruel and Blissey/Chansey, however she can't effectively switch into a Bulk up Conkeldurr very well. Thunderbolt is for Water types like Jellicent, Tentacreul, and Politoad, and sometimes even useful for Tornadus-T. Shadow Ball is great for Xatu and Espeon, and can also take a hefty chunk out of Reuniclus. The hidden power is up to you, however I prefer Ice for a wider variety of things to trap like Gliscor, Dragonite, Landorus, and Garchomp. It all depends on what bothers your team the most. If Gliscor gives you a problem, then use HP Ice. If Ferrothorn and Scizor are annoying, use HP Fire. I wouldn't recommend using HP Fire only to deal with Genesect, because any of his moves can do a number on her.

    Although many prefer Max speed Specs, I prefer bulky in order to revenge Terrakion and take a couple of hits to maybe last longer in the battle. I never could really figure out anything important to out speed maybe other than Breloom, however I have a lot of checks for Breloom, so like I mentioned earlier, her move set and spread all depends on your team. She works every well with Amoonguss and Breloom, because once the Pokemon is asleep she can safely switch in and revenge kill. She honestly works better with any status inducer such as Paralysis and burn.

    But seriously, give bulky Specs Gothitelle a try. She's very good in and out of weather, and can really put a team under a lot of stress trying to predict and not become trapped. Many teams also underestimate her, so it makes it easier for her to go in for the kill. With proper team support, she can be a real bitch to deal with.
  11. BlankZero

    BlankZero

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    Seems to be very prediction-heavy. I'm sure it works well, but it seems to be a lot of work to make it viable.

    Looks interesting, but what else can she do? Seems to me like a Bulky CM set would be king over this.

    Just switch into something that it setup bait for her and CM up, then destroy. Then proceed to wreck a bunch of shit with her being all set up like that.
  12. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    Specs is the best set because it gives Gothitelle the immediate power to break through the things it is trying to remove, e.g. Politoed. Scarf can also work out as a revenge killer, yet is unable to trap and KO defensive threats so easily.

    CM sounds nice on paper but it'll never work in practise because Gothitelle is just too slow to sweep, and even with maximum investment in Defense, it is still nothing exceptional on the physical side.
  13. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    This set is pretty amazing, I love the way you handle Volcarona and Keldeo comfortable, great idea!
  14. Murk

    Murk

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    To be honest I'm not sure what that Altaria does that a defensive Dragonite (the TWave offensive Tank onsite is brutal in this metagame) doesn't do much, much better.
  15. Keldeo333

    Keldeo333

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    My friend suggested this Mew set and only thing I can say is it's amazing, Even with no special attack investment it gets the OHKO on TIMID Genesect. Ice beam is also a OHKO on Landorus. Transform let's you check +2 Terrakion since you will be transforming into it and they will most likely go for stone edge which it resists then you can proceed to punch holes or sweep your opponents team at +2 attack and +1 speed It can also deal with a bunch of other boosting sweepers such as Gyarados since it will most likely go for waterfall then you can kill it with stone edge a common move they use or bounce. Last slot is of your choice really, It can use Tailwind if your mew as at low health and will be KO'd next turn so that the next pokemon you switch in has double speed. Trick to mess pokemon up. Rocks for rocks.

    [​IMG]

    Mew @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Synchronize
    IV's 30 Atk, 30 Def (for hp ice)
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Flamethrower
    - Transform
    - Ice Beam
    - TailWind/Trick/Stealth Rock
  16. Agonist

    Agonist Even as I tear your fucking throat away.
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    Why does it have HP Ice when it can learn Ice Beam (and in fact, you're even running it)?
  17. Keldeo333

    Keldeo333

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    For that when Mew transforms into something with hidden power it's ice and not dark.
  18. Bent1ey

    Bent1ey

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    Cloud Nine makes it so it's defense is better against target threats on weather, he will promote missing Thunder and Hurricane, along with the added durability against Fire attacks in the Sun and Water attacks on Rain and randomly shutting down Chlorophyl users. I need to calculate the bulk difference, but it seems like a decent alternative.
  19. thegreatzoroark

    thegreatzoroark

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    um i don't know it it still is but i think swift swim is banned under the rain.
  20. Masamune

    Masamune

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    Swift Swim + Drizzle is a banned combination on the same team. It's perfectly OK to have SS users on your team if you don't have a Drizzle user (presumably in the hope that the opponent will).
  21. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast
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    To my knowledge, Scarf Mew can't use Transform or it has to immediately switch out, since it would be locked into Transform.
  22. superstar

    superstar

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    I'm not sure if that set can be considered underrated, since it's in the on-site analysis. However, I can attest to how powerful it is, easily able to set up on the common Mamoswine and wreck face from there. Especially good when partnered with HP Grass Keldeo, since this can take out all its counters.

    Now onto my set:

    [​IMG]
    Dragon Dance Latios
    Latios @Life Orb/Leftovers
    252 SpAtt/ 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
    -Dragon Dance
    -Earthquake/Psyshock
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Psyshock/Surf/Thunder(bolt)/HP Fire/Recover

    Most people rely on one of four things to beat Latios: Mamoswine, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and faster pokemon like Scarf Genesect, Terrakion, and Tornadus-T

    This set beats all of these Pokemon. With the boost, you OHKO Jirachi with Earthquake, which ALWAYS stays in to take it. You are faster than Genesect, and can KO with rain boosted Surf or HP Fire. Terrakion falls to Psyshock. Tornadus-T loses to Dragon Pulse, and most other Pokemon are murdered by the power of a LO Dragon Pulse. All and all, a great set, which can usually net a few surprise KOs a match.
  23. Lord of Bays

    Lord of Bays

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    You do NOT OHKO Jirachi with no investment. You need at least 200 Atk EVs (neutral nature) to have a better than even chance to OHKO 4/0 Jirachi after a Dragon Dance.
  24. Cuban Vader

    Cuban Vader

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    I have a nifty little combo I've been using on my rain team for quite some time. I initially took it when my friend said that they're easily 2 of the worst fully evolved pokes. After a bit of testing I came to the realization that both Jynx and Stunfisk are lethal together in the current meta. I plan on posting a full RMT after I mess around a bit more with the team, but anyway here's the 2 sets

    [​IMG]
    Stunfisk (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Static
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Thunder
    - Surf
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    This stupid looking derp fish is an absolute monster. This thing can take a serious hit and hit back surprisingly hard. It catches a good deal of the meta offguard, including T-tar ( doing 62-74% max s-def), Tornadus (always OHKO) and Thundurus (92-111% in rain) as well as many other common threats.


    [​IMG]
    Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 8 HP / 248 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Nasty Plot
    - Substitute
    - Ice Beam
    Jynx is very straightforward to use, only switch in on water attacks. After one of your pokes are KOed, if Jynx is faster, come in and use Lovely Kiss. Assuming you don't get unlucky and miss, use substitute after that. You then have one turn, or more (if your opponent is dumb enough to not switch) to setup with NP. It's pretty surprising how often they stay in, not expecting much out of Jynx. Once you drop your opponents special wall, Jynx can EASILY sweep the entire team, given the chance to setup, which is often. An additional bonus of Jynx is that within 2 turns it gains back all HP used to make a sub (assuming rain is up) giving it the advantage of attempting multiple sweeps and the ability to stall if need be
  25. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    This is a pretty interesting set, but it's pretty much out classed by Specs Gastrodon. Gastrodon hits harder as well as has access to Ice Beam which pretty much hits anything Thunder doesn't and also primarily uses HP Grass to hit water types. That Water type STAB also goes a long way as well in the rain, which Stunfisk lacks. Lastly, it's also just as bulky if not bulkier then Stunfisk, and believe it or not, Gastrodon is even faster then Stunfisk. I would honestly recommend just using a Gastrodon because of it's better typing and access to moves like Recover and Ice Beam.

    This set seems effective, but having only ONE attacking move is just a real let down. Anything Steel, Water, Ice, Fire, or Thick Fat wall the hell out of this set. With the huge abundance of the mentioned types above in OU, it will be hard to safely get Jynx in to set up. If something like Breloom gets off a Mach Punch on her, it's all over. This set may seem decent on paper, but once it comes down to it, I'd only see it very viable for it's Lovely Kiss, however Breloom does a better job of doing that.
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