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Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by asterat, Jun 27, 2012.

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  1. Skore

    Skore

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    I'm a bit dubious about this Espeon set. It seems to suffer very much from 4MSS and it's role is a little undefined.
    You can either play an offensive cleric, or a baton-passing booster (although Espeon is a much better recipient of the boosts) but potentially you're locking yourself into a mono psychic attack which is walled by steels, darks and other psychichs or else a weak 70BP non STAB coverage move. And while Psychic hits slightly harder, Psyshock allows better damage vs Blissey and Chansey which would tank your Psychics all day until you Struggle.

    I would suggest the following 2 movesets which better define the roles you seem to want your Espeon to play:

    Heal Bell, Calm Mind, Psyshock, HP of your choice.

    or

    Calm Mind, Wish/HP of your choice, Baton Pass, Psyshock.

    The first is more offensive and the second more supportive and gives you the opportunity to Wish yourself to try and grab more boosts or to heal the boost recipient.

    A lot of folks forget that Espeon speed ties with Latios and has the same base Special Attack. Behind screens or with burn support Espeon can be a very potent special attacker but most choose to use her for Magic Bounce and team support.
  2. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    [​IMG] @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 200 HP / 56 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Psyshock / Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Recover

    another completely underrated set, cmzam...this thing gets absolutely no love but the fact of the matter is it will beat any stall team that lacks sableye/spiritomb (lady bug!) and can also pose quite a threat to offense. most cm things are easily walled by the pink blobs, but magic guard makes it so that toxic can't wear zam down and seismic toss is a 4HKO because 200 HP EVs gives zam an hp stat of 301 :toast:

    if your team is mad stall weak give this sucker a try
  3. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Why use Psyshock if you can already easily beat any Chansey / Blissey? Also this set is destroyed by Specially Defensive Jirachi, which is very common in stall teams.
  4. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    thanks for pointing that out sir, the reason to use psyshock is that you don't lose a cm war with latias, the most common cm user in all of ou.

    and yes i realize sdef rachi beats it, but the set is more for beating the blobs. if you're running this set and don't have a decent jirachi check, shame on you (though i suppose it would have been a good idea to mention that in the set description).

    you can always modify it and use cheri berry, my friend!
  5. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Oh yeah you have a point about CM Latias. It is worth noting however, that with Psyshock Zam loses against standard Gliscor as +1 LO Psyshock does 41.8 - 49.43% to Gliscor, while it easily 2hkoes back. And i usually find Gliscor much harder to deal with than Latias because it can't be Pursuited and is immune to status.
  6. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    yeah gliscor does beat it at +1, however it loses at +2, and hopefully you'll be able to get a couple calm minds up before gliscor realizes it's actually safe to switch in (most zam would easily 2hko with psychic or ohko with hp ice so gliscor probably won't be too eager to switch into it)

    you're right about the pursuit thing, i generally run this zam on sand or hail, which means pursuit ttar or pursuit scizor, so maybe i should consider psyshock since latias could be out of the equation by the time i try to set up. interesting, i'll test it out. for now, slashing in psychic.
  7. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte On a short LoA
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    Here's a good one:

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Air Balloon
    252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid
    ~Magma Storm
    ~Sunny Day
    ~SolarBeam
    ~Earthpower/Roar

    I've been using this Heatran extensively and I must say it is probably one of the best offensive supporters for Sun teams in the whole game. Sun teams tend to have trouble with Dugtrio- well, Magma Storms passive damage can break through focus sash- meaning Dugtrio is no longer a solid switch in to this Heatran, even if it has a sash. Sturdy Donphan and Forretress giving your trouble? Knock them down to Sturdy with Magma Storm, and then watch as the passive damage kills them. The awesome thing about this set is that it flat out beats the counters of Heatran's other sets- Bulky waters, Politoed, Dugtrio, and opposing Heatran. Your opponent will see Heatran as an awesome chance to put Rain back up- only for you to trap them, Sunny Day in their face, and SolarBeam to death. This Heatran hits as hard as a truck too- it sports the same special attack as choice scarf Latios and an even higher SpA than Keldeo. Any Sun team that has not tried this Heatran is seriously missing a lot of fun.
  8. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    this is just tobes' heatran but with earth power/roar > hidden power ice, right?

    i don't see the merit of air balloon personally, especially if you'e not running hp ice...isn't the whole point of hp ice to counter +1 dragons and such that carry eq? i suppose there's merit in air balloon + earth power for opposing heatran, but the problem with not having hp ice is that if you do happen to go up against an opposing heatran, and its balloon is also intact, you can't even break their balloon unless sun is up, because without it solarbeam takes a turn to charge before you actually get to attack. by then, regardless of who wins the speed ties, your heatran will be dead from the opposing earth power. and i don't think roar is a good idea with air balloon either, since you normally see roar on the sdef set; unless you're very concerned about hp ground latias, i'd stick to leftovers there as well.

    overall i believe the tobes set (sd/magma/solarbeam/hp ice @ leftovers) is a superior set, as it not only beats abomasnow, politoed, hippowdon, and sometimes tyranitar, but also checks dragons instead of being setup bait for them, and provides some reliable recovery for the scalds or superpowers that you'll inevitably have to take if you're going to use this set as a counter to opposing weather starters.
  9. emirinho

    emirinho

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    I would just like to remind everyone that this forgotten infernape set can actually be pretty dangerous as a revenge killer and scouter.These sets are pretty underrated and uncomon eventhough scarfape is a really good revenge killer.

    [​IMG]

    Infernape @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 6 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Flare Blitz
    - Stone Edge
    - Thunder Punch

    or

    Infernape @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Blaze
    EVs: 108 Atk / 252 Spd / 148 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Overheat/Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - U-Turn

    The first set is mainly a hit and go Infernape. It stops Gyarados from sweeping and it can stop Dragonite, if hurt with rocks, as well. It also deals more damage with CB and Flare Blitz as it is more concentrated on Attack.
    The first set is kind of more original and it was more successful for me. Mainly because i dealed more damage. The only drawback is the flare blitz recoil.

    The second set however is a scout and a suicide pokemon when suicidal is the only solution. It can also be used to deal massive damage with Overheat. This set can as well stop Dragonite from sweeping.What i realized is that this infernape set can actually fit in Volt-turn teams with scizor and rotom-w. And it can be pretty effective. Because the offensive type coverage between the 3 is pretty good they help one another gain momentum.

    All in all Scarfape is a pretty effective set. Many of my teames were successful thanks to this ape...

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    I posted this in the wrong thread the first time now i am reposting
  10. GenCross

    GenCross

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    Another Heatran set:
    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Torment
    - Protect
    - Lava Plume
    - Substitute/Toxic

    I haven't seen any of these recently, but Heatran with torment can really shut down a lot of attackers, since most only have one attack that can hit him for much damage. Come in on something that can't touch him (Ferrothorn, Celebi, pink blob, Volcarona) and either Torment immediately or set up a sub. From there alternate protect and lava plume. This set beats a lot of things that have Focus Blast/Superpower(Thundurus-T, TTar, Alakazam) once they're tormented or you have up a sub. Toxic helps against Jellicent and other things with recovery, but subs give you more longevity.
  11. Lavos Spawn

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    torment tran, the bane of my bw1 existence. man, i hate this thing, but it's really good. most pokemon (landorus, rotom-w, tyranitar, etc.) only have one move to hit heatran with that actually is going to hurt it, so torment is a fantastic option for heatran to have. if i could, though, i'd like to make a suggestion. substitute should always be used, no matter what, alongside torment and lava plume, whereas the final slot is up to you. personally i prefer either toxic or earth power, depending on the team, but it's really just a matter of preference and you can do pretty much whatever you want with that final slot.

    thanks for posting this set, i just hope it doesn't catch on because this thing is quite the pain in the ass to deal with.
  12. bubbly

    bubbly

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    It's a good mon, I don't honestly think this is the metagame for it though. Toxic Spikes abusers and Rain based Spinners are everywhere, removing a lot of its effectiveness. Also, Keldeo.
  13. 2sly4u

    2sly4u

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    I'd hardly call Infernape uncommon. It's #24 in usage (ahead of things like Haxorus, Landorus-T, and Keldeo) and ScarfNape is easily the most common set, so I don't really get how these are underrated. I mean the second set is literally straight off the analysis page.
  14. Lavos Spawn

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    [​IMG]
    Victini @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - U-Turn
    - V-Create
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Final Gambit

    i should probably feel like a horrible person for posting this, but i don't. final gambit victini is so unspeakably underrated that i can't stand not posting it. sun teams having problems with politoed or tyranitar, but don't feel like wasting a slot on dugtrio or wobbuffet? meet this baby. with 100 base hp and maximum investment, a final gambit from max hp victini is 100% guaranteed to ohko any politoed, tyranitar, or abomasnow (sadly, it'll only bring max hp hippowdon down to about 6%). 56 atk may seem very underwhelming, but it's enough for v-create to still pack a massive punch in sun. fusion bolt for standard coverage, and u-turn to get out and seize opportunity later. in my mind, this is actually the best victini set for a sun team to use. you can essentially ditch the dugtrio and go with something that will be more valuable to the team's success, eliminating the 6 pokemon syndrome that sun teams often experience.

    i urge anyone who's tired of standard sun teams to give this set a try.
  15. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    [​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 216 SDef / 24 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Dragon Tail
    - Substitute
    - Hone Claws

    Nice set with Toxic spikes, I tried it in a stall and worked very well.
  16. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    were you using this when we played each other in the tag team tournament? it's a cool set (no pun intended), not much to my liking though, as once the opponent figures out its only offensive move is dragon tail then it becomes remarkably easy to set up on. subcm jirachi runs all over this thing, as it's able to essentially set up on kyurem's face and kyurem can't even threaten it. for that reason i'm inclined to suggest using earth power over hone claws - i can definitely see situations where hone claws could be useful, but it's not needed for kyurem's success, whereas earth power could be super helpful vs. heatran, jirachi, and other steels that laugh at dragon tail.

    thanks for posting this set man, i hope people start using it.
  17. Temp V1

    Temp V1 Movin' at the speed of life and I can't slow down

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    Dragon tail is a phasing move just like Roar or Whirlwind, so I don't think that many people will try and set up against it. Also it doesn't have 100% accuracy so the accuracy boost from Hone Claws is appreciated :p
  18. Alexander.

    Alexander. Banned deucer.

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    Thanks I try earth power
  19. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    if you have substitute (like jirachi), and resist dragon tail (like jirachi), then yes, you're going to get set up on if you use this set without earth power. that's the problem with dragon tail - if there's a sub up, even if dragon tail breaks the sub it won't force the opponent out. roar and whirlwind don't have that catch.

    no problem, happy to help.
  20. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
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    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 248 HP / 248 SDef / 12 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar
    - Lava Plume

    Been using this on a Hail team and it's been amazingly well. I've seen a couple people use this but people really are underestimating how good this set is. A lot of people right now are using Genesect / Dugtrio to trap certain mons, while Heatran can simply escape from this. It's great because Dugtrio is only used to trap two or three Pokemon in this meta, while this Heatran completely ruins Dugtrio. ResTalk is what makes this set, one of the main things Heatran lacks as a defensive Pokemon is reliable recovery. It can't continually switch in to the likes of Latios and Tornadus-T, being worn down quickly even by resisted hits. With this set, you gain the ability to beat both of these two, constantly switching in and getting back to full HP with Rest, and being able to burn / phase these mons out time after time. It's also good for checking a lot of other Special Attackers, such as Sub Calm Mind Jirachi, Calm Mind Reuniclus, non Earth Power Celebi, Espeon, Genesect, Ninetales, Jellicent, Slowbro and Magnezone, all of which are not winning 1v1 against ResTalk Heatran.
  21. Lavos Spawn

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    i've tried this set before, jimbon, though in sand as opposed to hail, and it functions as an excellent phazer, similar to resttalk snorlax in uu and resttalk kyogre in ubers. lava plume is a great move to spam as it's essentially a fire-type scald, and roar becomes increasingly obnoxious when you have a few hazards up. if gen 5 hadn't changed the sleep mechanics so that they reset whenever you switch out, this set would surely be a common sight.

    how does shed shell work out for you in hail, though? seems very annoying to have to take residual damage every single turn with no means of recovering it off save the shaky resttalk combination of gen 5. in my opinion, heatran on a hail team is never a great idea; it compounds your fighting weakness and lacks even the recovery of leftovers due to hail itself.
  22. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
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    It's been working alright, but like you said you do rely on having hazards up. I've been using it on a team with SubSeed Abomasnow / Physically Defensive Toxic Spikes Tentacruel / SubRoost Kyurem / Stealth Rock Gliscor / Choice Scarf Jirachi and the results have been pretty decent. Being able to switch into bulky Waters with Toxic Spikes support is amazing, especially against stuff like Slowbro and Jellicent who cannot 2HKO Heatran, so I can pretty easily Roar them out to get something else Toxic'd, Rest up and switch out again. The main problem with this set is the consistent residual damage like you said, it's not so bad if I can Spin hazards away but it doesn't negate Hail damage. However, it's almost never been a problem for me, as anything that can bring Heatran down low enough to the point where Hail is enough to KO Heatran is usually revenged by Jirachi or walled by Gliscor.

    Heatran was added to sponge the weakness to Sun Teams, which if you play Heatran right and have Toxic Spikes up, it's virtually impossible to beat for Sun Teams unless Hidden Power [Ground] Volcarona or stacking hazards before I get a chance to Spin. Heatran / Gliscor is pretty nice, Heatran baits switches into things like Terrakion and Hippowdon, which means free Stealth Rock for Gliscor.
  23. Lavos Spawn

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    surprised you're not running spikes anywhere on that team, but i guess tspikes + sr is enough for heatran when you factor in the residual hail damage. hp ground volc is still a huge issue, at +1 you essentially lose to it (unless you switch in rachi on the qd and trick it, that takes huge balls though). i guess it's hard to make a hail team that isn't weak to either volcarona or terrakion.

    wondering what subroost kyurem does for the team...have you tried a dragon tail set? 2 phazers in hail could be really obnoxious if played correctly.
  24. Jimbon

    Jimbon FAKE TRAIN
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    Yeah I made that team in like 10 minutes lol, still needs a lot of testing.

    SubRoost Kyurem makes good use of the Toxic Spikes support, especially with Substitute and good bulk, it outstalls a lot of defensive threats that aren't immune to Toxic Spikes, regardless if they wall Kyurem or not. I've never tried a Dragon Tail set, but that sounds very interesting. I guess it could work, especially with Kyurem's decent bulk and the addition of Roost in B/W2 gives it a certain niche over other Dragons.
  25. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    ah 10 minute hail teams...

    i understand what subroost does for your team, i've just never liked it a ton personally. especially since kyurem on hail in the first place compounds the fighting-type weakness that hail already has due to abomasnow being its weather starter. i would give this set a try, though (credit to Alexander for coming up with this):

    [​IMG]
    Kyurem @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 20 Def / 216 SDef / 24 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Roost
    - Dragon Tail
    - Substitute
    - Hone Claws / Earth Power

    looks mediocre at first, but hone claws + dragon tail can legitimately sweep a team once you've got those big tspikes up. and if boosting isn't your thing then earth power makes a great 4th slot as well, hitting heatran super hard, 2hko on most tentacruel, surprises ninetales, etc.

    again, just a suggestion you might try. kyurem's bulk goes way under-appreciated, this set puts it to good use. i might even say it's superior to the parashuffler dragonite that people used to use a ton.

    edit: that reminded me of SIGILYPH the boss hail sweeper who more people also need to use :toast: fighting resist + spreads status + sweeps = perfect pokemon to use in a hail semi-stall team like this one!
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