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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by asterat, Jun 27, 2012.
Destroyed by any offensive team
yeah, hence me saying it's mainly for checking stall. please don't just post a one-liner attacking a weakness to the original and creative set i made, especially when i mention the weakness in the op. thanks.
I really like it, I will try alakazam with this set in an Deo-D offense, imo it works very good and can destroy many stall team with spikes support.
I'd like the Zam set more if it wasn't such an offensive metagame right now. Sure, it's great against stall, but in any offensive matchup it's nothing more than a mediocre revenge killer. I'm pretty sure there are better stallbreakers around that won't be such dead weight in non-stall games.
You're right, but if you think about it, the offensive team must beat the stall, if an offensive team can't beat a stall, is a bankruptcy team
To take care of the opponents offensive team, there are 4 slots (deo-d occupies 1 slot :P)
Why use Zam when you can use Reuniclus? You only gain the ability the ability to get to +1 before a Taunt user and have a better time vs offensive teams. But TBH without Shadow Ball or max special attack you ain't doing much damage to offensive teams anytime soon, so your niche is lost. A key advantage that Reuniclus holds over Alakazam is that it can tank a U-turn from the omnipresent Choice Scarf Genesect (even at +1 o.o) and then Recover on the same turn. Alakazam can't and will find itself flat out KO'ed. I would much rather use Reuniclus in case stuff like Scalding Bulky Water or an EQ'ing Gliscor gets a critcal hit.
Alakazam is a whole lot faster- and it's got a bit more initial power too. Because of this, that set is more wuited to Hyper Offense teams- its awesome Stallbreaking skills and its ability to sweep with minimal support means that it will be well suited in a fast paced environment. Instead of allowing the opponent to hit you and kill you before you sweep, Alakazam just rips through opposition by sheer speed and force.
Reuniclus, on the other hand, is a lot bulkier- albeit a lot slower. It doesn't play the same way- it's more at home in bulky offense to beat Stall teams. It's scared of Taunt, but not of opposing attacks- which is what differentiates it from its humanoid cousin. Reuniclus also relies on team support a bit more than Alakazam- Trick Room and passive damage are often needed to give Reuniclus the opportunity to sweep.
You realize that all the other team needs is one pokemon to destroy Alakazam. Your better off going full offensive with recover maybe as a last slot
Oh god it works so well
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
IVs: 2 Spe
Sassy nature (+SpD, -Spe)
-Hidden Power Ice
This thing is very capable of setting up stealth rock, all while providing excellent all-around sponging from both offenses and doling out damage with surprising coverage. This is one of the best damn dragon counters you will find out there. The only problem is that when it can't deal SE damage, it fails to do much.
Bronzong is quite decent but what turns me off is he is Breloom bait and cant do anything to Skarm/Forteress/Ferothorn. So concider Hypnosis and a Lum Berry.
Yay, another Bronzong user :D
I used it in early BW2 - before Meloetta, Gothitelle and Genesect, mind you - on a semistall team, and it was absolutely amazing. Stopping Dragons in their tracks and being one of the best damn Tornadus-T checks out there (Gyro Ball is actually quite strong) was a godsend for that team. Bronzong's biggest issue bar none is the lack of recovery though. Once you've stopped that Mence or Tornadus-T once, it's pretty much spent. Burns also render it almost useless (I didn,t run HP Ice though). Wish support is something it loves, and a cleric doesn't hurt either.
I'll post the team I used next time I can access my computer, which is in around 16 hours if anybody cares.
It's always nice to see bronzong get used. I played it with Vaporeon as wish support with Gengar stopping most offensive teams, with Landorus and Genesect as volt-turners. Vaporeon and Bronzong actually have pretty decent synergy together. The only problem was a really tough time getting past Skarmory, Gastrodon, and, annoyinly, Ferrothorn.
Student (Toxicroak) (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 40 HP / 248 Atk / 220 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Sucker Punch
Now, most toxicroak sets involve sub, from sub punch, sub bulk up to sub sd and the rare, but effective sub nasty plot. It abuses the ability to make substitues with the recovery it gets from dry skin healing half of the subs lost hp per turn similar to gliscor abusing poison heal (and the afformentionable breloom.) Instead of using swords dance, bulk up, or nasty plot I decided that to abuse Toxicroak's full offensive potential I'd give it 3 attacks. Plus the fact that it is hard enough to get a sub up, setting up is also goign to be a pain. The investment is so it can outspeed neutral base 80's (stoutland out of sand, dragonite, mamoswine, etc.) by 2 speed points and the hp investment gives it an odd hp number for hazards. Anyway, back to the set, it has worked wonders with life orb and adamant power withotu boosts and the ice punch, drain punch, sucker punch coverage has also helped immensly. A few examples of it's power:
252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Tornadus-T: 81.61% - 96.32% (Guaranteed OHKO) (after stealth rocks this is)
252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Heatran: 75.39% - 88.6% (2 hits to KO)
252 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak (+Atk) Drain Punch vs 4 HP/0 Def Politoed: 59.94% - 70.81% (2 hits to KO)
252 -1 Atk Life Orb Toxicroak (+Atk) Ice Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Salamence: 99.09% - 117.22% (93.75% chance to OHKO) (after intimidate)
As you can see this pokemon can severly dent various threats with it's coverage moves and still has decent (not that great, but semi-respectable) bulk while maintaining a fair amount of speed!
Obviously this should be used in rain :x
Here is an underrated and effective set i have been using:
Aerodactyl @ Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Stone Edge
With the introduction of Tornadus-T, most offensive team without Jirachi have been struggling to deal with it, and mine was no exception. So i tried this little dino and i was very impressed. In case you didn't know, Aerodactyl can take everyhting Tornadus-T can throw at it, resisting its main STAB move, while outspeeding and OHKOing back. Oh and it has reliable recovery too! With max Speed Jolly you outspeed everything 'till Timid ScarfToed, including Tornadus-T, while hitting quite hard and with good coverage due to base 105 Atk + LO + EdgeQuake combo. It also has Taunt to prevent any set-up from annoying pokes such as Deoxys-D, Gliscor, Skarmory and Chansey / Blissey, so it helps a lot vs stall and hyper offense teams (outspeeds every single Dual Screener). But unfortunately Aerodactyl is easily walled by physical walls, which means that it will have a hard time against balanced and stall teams (this is somewhat mitigated by Taunt and Roost though). In the other hand, versus offensive teams, Aero is wonderful as its blazing speed and good power allows it to put huge holes in the opponent's team, while also revenge killing anything unscarfed in OU.
Now let's see some prominent threats that make Aero's life harder:
Hippowdon with Ice Fang / Stone Edge
Which means that Xatu with Heat Wave, and a physically defensive spread is an excellent partner, because together they can prevent hazards from almost every hazard setter when used correctly (most stuff that Xatu can't prevent from laying SR, such as Heatran and non Scarfed Terrakion, are dealt with Aerodactyl). Of 'course they don't have good synergy type-wise as you can see, as they have exactly the same weaknesses, but pokemon is not about covering types, is about covering actual pokes, and Xatu does a very good job at handling many pokes that give Aero trouble, while helping keep momentum with U-turn and preventing hazards from being up.
Sub 3 attacks vaporeon
@ leftovers modest
12 hp 252spatk 240speed
-hp grass/fire/baton pass
vaporeon can switch into any pokemon that can't damage it that much like heatran. The opponent switchs out while you get a free sub up. The evs allow vaporeon make 101hp subs and out speed ony non speed boosting nature, bass 60 speed pokemon. The two hidden powers allow you to hit either other water types or ferrothorn but it is your choice on which ot use.
I suggest you to try baton pass instead of hp fire / hp grass for help a your sweeper with setup
In your team Choiceband aerodacty is very good imo, with aqua tail, eq, stone edge and pursuit. It can kill opponents ghost pokemon for help forretress with spin, also it is a good cleaner with spikes. (and stealth rock obv)
But also life orb is a good choice.
Latias @ Leftovers
Timid | 252 HP 252 Spe
This thing has to be the best mono-attacker in the game. Her ability to set up on basically every steel type (bar Scizor and Gene) along with the fat fuckers catches my opponents off gaurd almost every time. You don't even need a coverage move, Dragon Pulse does exactly what it needs to. Just make sure extremely bulky phasers, SpD T-Tar and the metal bugs are out of the way and you are pretty much good to go. Makes a great pivot as well.
Octillery (F) @ Expert Belt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
IVs: 0 Spd
- Ice Beam
- Energy Ball
- Fire Blast
I've been having tons of success with this set on a Trick Room team since last night. I opted for Expert Belt over Choice Scarf so I spend last time switching with Trick Room up and it has great coverage to take advantage of it. A lot of people seem to not realize how hard this thing hits and lets not forget that it's pretty bulky and "fast"
@ alexwolf, giving that Aerodactyl Fire Blast lets it deal with 5/6 of the pokes you listed. Even with his lowish special attack, it's still enough to ko pokes 4x weak to it.
I know Delko, but Fire Blast simply cannot fit. Every move is necessary. EQ is obviously necessary, as without it you are walled by a bazzilion of pokes, Roost makes you able to deal with Tornadus-T more than once and helps with LO and SR damage, and Taunt is what makes Aerodactyl so adept at keeping hazards off the field in combination with Xatu, while also allowing Aero to stallbreak a little.
Alex, that set is amazing and i really wish i could fit it onto my team. I may actually experiment with it over heatran, although genesect does sort of become a problem.
tehy if you like, you could try a more stalish approach to Aerodactyl, because i know you love stall. Here is the set:
Aerodactyl @ Lefties
EVs: 212 HP / 112 Atk / 184 Spe
- Rock Slide
Use this with Hippowdown (you love SpD Hippo right?) and you are good to go. The Atk evs allows you to ohko Tornadus-T after SR. The Speeds evs allow you to outspeed him, and the rest are thrown into HP. Except from countering Tornadus-T, it can also counter CM Latias and any Volcarona, 2 big threats for stall. The SubRoost combo allows you to pp stall endless mons, such as the afromentioned CM Latias, the blobs, Gliscor, Heatran, Skarmory, Deoxys-D, EB Genesect (yeah you can do this if the need arises, you just have to get in safely), defensive Celebi, and Hippowdon. It can also help a lot against some stallbreakers, such as Mew and SD Gliscor, by Taunting them, and then letting you Roar them away with something else. You can run Whirlwind in the last slot, but i find Sub very useful for pp stalling and to avoid status, especially from Heatran (which you wall). Anyway this set appreciates cleric support, as then it can more easily switch into random Lava Plumes and stuff, without worrying about getting useless.
EDIT: Small detail. With 116 HP / 96 SpD in sandstorm you can avoid the 2hko from Scarf Genesect's Tbolt and Ice Beam, meaning you can actually counter him, with SR off the field, barring crits and status (which is likely, and the reason that i didn't suggest it as the main spread). With Ice Beam he only gets 8 tries to crit/freeze you, while with Tbolt he gets 12, due to Pressure.
All my favorite sweeper Pokemon (Volcarona, Breloom, Keldeo) hate the existence of Tornadus-T. My favorite support Pokemon (Sableye, Ferrothorn, Xatu, Amoonguss), bar Jirachi, cannot take hits from Tornadus-T. My favorite speedy, "catch-all" support and pseudo-revenger Starmie can't outspeed or take a hit from Tornadus-T.
What do you do against this green chicken if you have the problem I have, especially if you only have 1 team slot left?
DieTornadusDie (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
EVs: 248 HP / 220 SDef / 40 Spd
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Screw you, awesome green chicken; I pack a Zapdos. I resist your entire freakin' normal moveset of Flying, Fighting, and Bug coverage. As a matter of fact:
Life Orb Mixed
252 SpAtk Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs 248 HP/220 SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef) : 23.5% - 27.42%
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
After Stealth Rock: (48.3% - 52.22%)
4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus-T (+SpAtk) Hurricane vs 248 HP/220 SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef) : 29.77% - 34.99%
4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
After Stealth Rock: (54.57% - 59.79%)
3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Your strongest move is at best a 4HKO. I can feasibly take crits WITH Stealth Rock damage factored in. The Specs set is also using the never-used Modest spread, meaning I take even less than the normal Timid ones. And when it's my turn to attack:
0 SpAtk Zapdos Thunderbolt vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Tornadus-T (-SpDef) : 101.34% - 119.4%
I fry you, doing juuuust enough damage to your Naive nature to knock you out. If you're not Naive, I still do 90.3% - 107.36%, which is death after Stealth Rock or Life Orb.
I carry Heat Wave even with the threat of rain since there’s nothing better than frying unsuspecting Ferrothorn, Forretress, Breloom, Celebi, Scizor and Amoonguss, as well as possibly taking advantage of Sun teams. Hidden Power [Ice] is used over a status move as the analysis recommends thanks to the threat of Thundurus-T coming on in a switch, to which I do 48.83% - 58.19%. Thundurus has issues surviving already what with Rocks and Life Orb, so that is enough to end it. Modest Life Orb Thundurus-T unboosetd does 49.61% - 57.96% to Zapdos with its Hidden Power Ice, so if I hit it on the switch, I can tank its hit and KO it next turn.
In general, Zapdos is hard to KO outright, especially bolstering its SpD like I chose to (in a “Life Orb Starmie does 47% - 55.35% with Ice Beam” kind of hard-to-KO). Pressure is kinda nice as well to help PP stall some things if I’m being gutsy (Meteors, Hydro Pumps, and other 8-PP moves), but Lightningrod once released will be icing to this beautiful bird of Thunder's cake.
I ran pretty much the same Zapdos for the longest time, one thing I have to say, easily roar > HP ice, with roar you can get CM Jirachi off the field, and with a bit of spikes support, a few of these and Jirachi is dead. You should have something else for Gliscor / Landorus anyway, or just hit them with heat wave.
Zapdos is an amazing sun stopper and scizor wave aswell, so if you need somethign for sun, tornadus, CM Jirachi, and scizor, give SpD-Zapdos a try