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Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame

Discussion in 'BW OU' started by asterat, Jun 27, 2012.

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  1. Seth Vilo

    Seth Vilo

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    All my favorite sweeper Pokemon (Volcarona, Breloom, Keldeo) hate the existence of Tornadus-T. My favorite support Pokemon (Sableye, Ferrothorn, Xatu, Amoonguss), bar Jirachi, cannot take hits from Tornadus-T. My favorite speedy, "catch-all" support and pseudo-revenger Starmie can't outspeed or take a hit from Tornadus-T.

    What do you do against this green chicken if you have the problem I have, especially if you only have 1 team slot left?

    [​IMG]
    DieTornadusDie (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 SDef / 40 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Screw you, awesome green chicken; I pack a Zapdos. I resist your entire freakin' normal moveset of Flying, Fighting, and Bug coverage. As a matter of fact:

    Life Orb Mixed
    252 SpAtk Life Orb Tornadus-T Hurricane vs 248 HP/220 SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef) : 23.5% - 27.42%
    5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    After Stealth Rock: (48.3% - 52.22%)
    4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    Specs
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Tornadus-T (+SpAtk) Hurricane vs 248 HP/220 SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef) : 29.77% - 34.99%
    4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)

    After Stealth Rock: (54.57% - 59.79%)
    3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)


    Your strongest move is at best a 4HKO. I can feasibly take crits WITH Stealth Rock damage factored in. The Specs set is also using the never-used Modest spread, meaning I take even less than the normal Timid ones. And when it's my turn to attack:

    0 SpAtk Zapdos Thunderbolt vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Tornadus-T (-SpDef) : 101.34% - 119.4%
    Guaranteed OHKO


    I fry you, doing juuuust enough damage to your Naive nature to knock you out. If you're not Naive, I still do 90.3% - 107.36%, which is death after Stealth Rock or Life Orb.

    I carry Heat Wave even with the threat of rain since there’s nothing better than frying unsuspecting Ferrothorn, Forretress, Breloom, Celebi, Scizor and Amoonguss, as well as possibly taking advantage of Sun teams. Hidden Power [Ice] is used over a status move as the analysis recommends thanks to the threat of Thundurus-T coming on in a switch, to which I do 48.83% - 58.19%. Thundurus has issues surviving already what with Rocks and Life Orb, so that is enough to end it. Modest Life Orb Thundurus-T unboosetd does 49.61% - 57.96% to Zapdos with its Hidden Power Ice, so if I hit it on the switch, I can tank its hit and KO it next turn.

    In general, Zapdos is hard to KO outright, especially bolstering its SpD like I chose to (in a “Life Orb Starmie does 47% - 55.35% with Ice Beam” kind of hard-to-KO). Pressure is kinda nice as well to help PP stall some things if I’m being gutsy (Meteors, Hydro Pumps, and other 8-PP moves), but Lightningrod once released will be icing to this beautiful bird of Thunder's cake.
  2. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I ran pretty much the same Zapdos for the longest time, one thing I have to say, easily roar > HP ice, with roar you can get CM Jirachi off the field, and with a bit of spikes support, a few of these and Jirachi is dead. You should have something else for Gliscor / Landorus anyway, or just hit them with heat wave.

    Zapdos is an amazing sun stopper and scizor wave aswell, so if you need somethign for sun, tornadus, CM Jirachi, and scizor, give SpD-Zapdos a try
  3. tehy

    tehy

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    Alex, thanks a trillion! I may actually just replace spdef tran with that and see how it does with dragon-type attacks, and maybe replace starmie with a specially defensive spinner too if i need to.

    Edit: Holy shit! I can replace sable w/jellicent, then give him eq over sub, that way he stops lucario. Then tornadus T can blow me xD!

    Or maybe eviolite dusclops, but whatever.
  4. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    tehy, forget what i said earlier about the EV spread on Aero. Use 72 HP / 252 SpD / 176 Spe with a Jolly nature. You don't really need to ohko Tornadus-T, as you can tank Hurricanes, and Superpower as well with a Sub. When he is at -1, you easily OHKO. Check some calcs (all in sand):

    - Specs Latios DM: 68.02 - 80.25%, with SR off the field, you never get 2hkoed, as you have Roost and you are faster. The best part is that Latios can use only 4 DMs against Aero because of Pressure.

    - Scarf Genesect Ice Beam (+0): 38.87 - 46.39%

    - Scarf Rotom-W Hydro Pump: 67.71 - 79.62%

    - Scarf Rotom-W Volt Switch: 39.49 - 47.02%

    - +1 CM Latias Dragon Pulse: 31.97 - 37.61%

    Anyway those are only some calcs, there are many more impressive things that he can do... If you decide to use him, i would suggest to use very strong anti-SR support (obviously), as Aero needs SR off the field to function good. Packing a cleric wouldn't be a bad idea either, as Aero might get burned from Heatran's Lava Plume, and all the random elemental attacks he can tank.
  5. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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    Ah, Specially Defensive Zapdos is a great set. Cannot wait for Lightningrod to be released to further beat Thundurus-T and such. I used a similar set with Substitute > Hidden Power [Ice] as you get a free Sub against Scizor, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress or any other defensive Steel -- it's nice for avoiding status from Jirachi and the like. I would recommend you run 240 HP EVs to hit 381, which allows you to switch in 4 times with Stealth Rock up and survive with 1 HP. It's also nice because you get 4 equal Substitutes which is nice for being able to gauge how much a Power Whip or Scald is doing before thinking about Substituting up, it's all just preference though.

    Not wanting to move away from the point of this thread, I've also been using this pretty extensively and to a lot of success.

    [​IMG]
    Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 Def / 40 SAtk
    Bold Nature
    - Psyshock
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Moonlight

    Cresselia is amazing. I used this particular set on a Sun Team and it works wonders, freely being able to switch into Terrakion and Dragonite with ease, while also healing 66% from Moonlight each time under Sun. Special Attack EVs ensure the OHKO on CB Scizor under Sun, while HP / Defense EVs maximize bulk. I'm really surprised I haven't seen anyone else using Cresselia, it's surprisingly effective and stupidly bulky. Only bad thing is it draws in Genesect / Tyranitar a lot and if you mispredict you can lose Cresselia. Don't let this deter you from using it, it's still amazing and I have yet to see it be OHKO'd.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah Cressy is good in sun teams, as it solves many of its usual problems, such as dragons, Landorus and Terrakion. However i think Reflect is the best option in the last slot, to be able to deal with Ttar and Scizor at the same time. It's not like Scizor is a threat for Sun teams anyway, so HP Fire is not really needed imo.
  7. DEMo_Gorgon47

    DEMo_Gorgon47

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    Does Cressilia actually do a lot of damage? Her attacking stats without a CM boost are pretty laughable. While her bulk is amazing, I just dont see the unboosted and uninvested damage output to be enough.
  8. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
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    It doesn't matter if the damage output isn't enough, you're not using this to sweep, and if you are then you're doing it horribly wrong. It's moreso a defensive pivot to other team members, while also being able to actually hit the stuff that threatens Sun Teams. Keldeo, Terrakion and any other Fighting types get hit by Psyshock, while Dragonite, Salamence, Haxorus, Latios, Gliscor, and Landorus (T) are hit by an Ice Beam. Ferrothorn, Forretress and Scizor are hit hard by Hidden Power [Fire]. All of these pose some threat to Sun Teams, which is why I use Cresselia -- being able to remove Dragonite or Scizor can easily pave the way for Venusaur to sweep.
  9. Milos

    Milos

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    Amazing set. I've been using cress in my sun team as well, to test it out, and it fits in so perfectly. It laughs in the face of even +2 DDNite and proceeds to KO with Ice Beam...it has even survived a +1 Bug Buzz from Genesect to KO back with HP fire (in the sun).

    Having the sun is up is really important for Moonlight, as without it, Cress has a hard time suriving repeated attacks (and it will take a beating pretty much every match).

    Mostly, it has problems with Heatran and other fire-types...but this problem can be mitigated by packing a Dugtrio or a bulky water type to handle them. All in all, very useful set..thank you Jimbon!
  10. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Since when are Scizor, Forretress and Ferrothorn a problem for Sun teams? With Xatu, Ninetales, Genesect, Victini, and most Chloro abusers carrying fire moves, all those pokes are pretty well covered. Reflect seems as a much better option, as without it, you will be trapped and killed by Ttar, or at best left with very little life, unable to wall anything any more...
  11. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

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    I remember like more than a year ago when I ran sun, scizor could be a pain because in the middle of your sweep with Venusaur, in comes scizor to do like 60% with bullet punch, and after the wear and tear of the battle that could mean a dead Venusaur or even just a sweep cut down.
  12. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah this is a problem, but you can't ignore the threat that is Ttar too. And i would prefer to deal with Scizor with one of the many checks that Sun teams have to him (if Scizor goes for BP then bring in Genesect or Victini, etc), than to have a Cressy that is utter Ttar bait.
  13. Ghostbone

    Ghostbone

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    Krookodile is a pretty underated threat imo, making an effective scarfer, with the ability to trap and kill a bunch of psychic/ghost types (importantly xatu and espeon),effective coverage options and an immunity to volt switch (which goes well with pursuit)
    Moxie makes it a decent cleaner while intimidate helps it check boosting sweepers better.
  14. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    [​IMG]
    Mew @ Normal Gem
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Taunt
    - Stealth Rock
    - Explosion
    - Magic Coat / Zen Headbutt

    I originally was using an Azelf on my Hyper Offensive team, however I saw Ojama using this set (or something similar), and I really like it. Mew has several advantages over Azelf, mainly its ability to run a Normal Gem for a more powerful Explosion due to its bulk. With the given EV's, Mew always survives a +1 U-Turn and +0 Bug Buzz from Genesect and it can set-up Rocks. Magic Coat allows Mew to beat opposing Magic Coat Deoxys-D's 1v1 which other Taunt users cannot say, and it prevents faster leads like Terrakion, Infernape, Azelf, and Aerodactyl from setting up on you, as they will Taunt and you will Magic Coat. Explosion provides a self-spinblock, since slower spinners are going to lose not be able to rapid spin if you explode, since the move has nothing to hit. 4 SDef EV's make sure Genesect gets +1 Atk since it can tank a +1 U-Turn but not a +1 Bug Buzz. I'm really impressed by this set-- the only thing I miss is the ability to tank a Specs Draco Meteor or something Turn 1 due to the lack of a Sash that Azelf has, but honestly the power of Explosion makes up for it, e.g. almost always OHKO'ing Xatu. Common etiquette is to Explode turn 1 if your opponent has a Starmie or Magic Bounce. Zen Headbutt can be used if you're scared of Gengar setting up on you, or if you want to hit Tentacruel or fighters trying to set up on you. Tentacruel can bypass the KABOOM with Protect given proper prediction on your opponent's side.

    EDIT: This set is really good for HO Teams not wanting to waste a team slot on a ghost-type since this can prevent spins.
  15. asterat

    asterat

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    Alexwolf I was using that aero with hippowdon, forretress, rotom-w, latias, stoutland. It did okay but I personally found tyranitar better in most situations, aerodactyl is pretty frail.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf King of Conquerors
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    Yeah Ttar is a better special wall no doubt about it, you should use Aero if you want a fast Taunt, and a Tornadus-T, Volcarona and CM Latias counter.
  17. Joeyboy

    Joeyboy Check out my Youtube channel! JoeyboyGames!
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    Damn was just about to post about Cresselia. Seriously she's awesome, especially in Sun. Counters some huge threats to common Sun teams like RP Landorus and Garchomp while checking sooooo many threats like most fighting types. I even had someone use an awesome Trick Room Cresselia on their Sun team today on the Suspect Ladder. Very cool
  18. asterat

    asterat

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    Hey guys! I found it this was one of the thread to postin to get a badge so I made it into a little friendly competition. Refer to the first post which I just edited it into. The first week will be abnormally long, it will start now and end on friday, but not 2 days from now, nine days from now.
  19. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    warning: ipod

    with that said; i've been testing mental herb skill swap deo-d: works amazingly, esec on xatu.
  20. Boondocker

    Boondocker

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    [​IMG]
    @Leftovers/Lum Berry
    252Hp
    Calm/Bold Nature
    Prankster
    ~Calm Mind
    ~WoW
    ~Recover
    ~Taunt

    This thing jizzes all over stall and offense. Calm Mind increases your SpD to incredible levels, and its quite easy to get to +2 (one as they switch, one before they attack). Wil-O-Wisp keeps physical attackers cowering in their panties and is your only scorce of damage. Recover to live longer, Taunt to prevent setup/healing. Status is this things worst enemy and Lum Berry saves you once although its probably better to just use Leftovers.

    Counters in OU include Heatran, Rueniclus (2 attack versions cant touch you either), Ninetales, Alakazam, Volcrona, Infernape, Espeon and Xatu. If you can get them out of the way, this thing is incredibly hard to kill. Also makes a pretty good lead.
  21. dragonuser

    dragonuser Today, tomorrow, and always with a frozen heart
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    [​IMG]
    Breloom (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 248 SDef / 24 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Drain Punch
    - Spore

    Just posted this in The Pokemon of the Week thread, but also realized it would fit here as well. This set is very underrated due to the popularity of Swords Dance/Choice Banded Breloom's, but really serves a valuable role. Poison Heal gives recovery as well as status immunity, making Breloom a fantastic switch in against most Rain Stall teams. With the given EV spread Breloom's Special Defense is bolstered immensely, increasing its utility vs Rain teams. Protect allows scouting against Choiced Pokemon, as well as increasing passive damage through Leech Seed/Sand and getting more healing through Leech Seed/Poison Heal. Drain Punch is chosen because without Substitute, Focus Punch is very unreliable and Drain Punch can also give additional recovery.

    Grass-Types like Celebi and Amoonguss wall this set pretty hard, making Pokemon like Choice Band Tyranitar a great partner. Breloom serves as a valuable Water-Type resist for Sand teams, and Tyranitar can pursuit trap Celebi and Amoonguss (CB Pursuit/Crunch does a lot). Pokemon like Scizor also make good partners if you plan to use him on a Rain team.
  22. blunder

    blunder

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    [​IMG]

    Alakazam (F) @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Charge Beam


    Why is this set effective?

    Alakazam is usually seen running a Sash + 4 attacks set because people dismiss it's ability to sweep due to its frailty. Charge beam had a mere 3.411% of battles in which it was in Alakazam's movepool - Even lower than recover! Alakazam with a life orb attached as we all know is amazingly powerful, and it can come in on a weakened Pokemon and K.O. with charge beam to begin a late game sweep or to just wallbreak. Alakazam also SINGLEHANDEDLY destroys Rain Stall, seeing as +1 Focus Blast has an 86% chance to 2HKO Chansey. The only thing that really I guess sticks in your way is Specially Defensive Celebi, which can tank a shadow ball, but it really can't do much to you back unless it has Thunder Wave. My

    Great teammates for this set are ones that can take out special walls as well as faster threats, as well as being able to deal with strong priority users. Deoxys-D and other spikes users are great ensuring that with hazards available, very little can take a hit from Alakazam. Magnezone is also a nice teammate as Pokemon like Jirachi and Scizor threaten Alakazam with their amazing special defense, and priority move respectedly.

    The main counters to Alakazam are mainly those that can take a hit and retaliate back. Jirachi and Mamoswine can take a hit and destroy it with an Iron Head or a Meteor Mash. Faster threats are also quite annoying such as Tornadus-T and Jolteon

    All in all charge beam Alakazam is one of the most underrated Pokemon I have ever seen and imo is much better than regular old 4 attacks Alakazam or CM
  23. DarkBlazeR

    DarkBlazeR

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    [​IMG]

    Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb / Sharp Beak
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Rain Dance / Taunt / Substitute
    - Tailwind

    Although Tornadus-I seems to have disappeared from the OU metagame due to the presence of Tornadus-T, this set takes full advantage of the few niches it has over its rival: most importantly Prankster. This set makes Torn-I more of a team player than a pure sweeper on a rain team than Torn-T, whilst still being a destructive force.

    Whether by helping to secure the weather war in your favour, or granting your team momentum with Tailwind, Torn-I will always be able to do something useful in your matches. Taunt can be used over Rain Dance to block status and prevent special walls from using their recovery moves, though Substitute can also be incredible with prediction. I'd say Prankster Tailwind is probably the most important reason for using Torn-I over Torn-T, though I have seen Sub/Taunt Torn-I been used successfully in the past. Tailwind can be abused by Torn-I itself as well as by its team members - it is essentially immune to revenge killing by scarfers, so feel free to go to town with Hurricane once Tailwind has been set up.

    As for the item choice: LO is the best imo as you'll want to hit things as hard as possible, though Sharp Beak is also viable if the LO recoil is really unsettling. Leftovers could also potentially be used on sets with Substitute.
  24. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    It's nice that you bring up Tornadus, DarkBlazeR :) It's noteworthy that Sharp Beak Hurricane from Incarnate does slightly more than LO Hurricane from his Therian counterpart, so Sharp Beak isn't a bad item choice; glad you mentioned it!
  25. asterat

    asterat

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    Boondocker
    Sableye @Leftovers/Lum Berry
    252Hp
    Calm/Bold Nature
    Prankster
    ~Calm Mind
    ~WoW
    ~Recover
    ~Taunt
    dragonuser
    Breloom (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 248 SDef / 24 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Leech Seed
    - Drain Punch
    - Spore

    ThunderBlunder
    Alakazam (F) @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Psychic
    - Focus Blast
    - Charge Beam


    DarkBlazeR
    Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb / Sharp Beak
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hurricane
    - Focus Blast
    - Rain Dance / Taunt / Substitute
    - Tailwind
    Vote I guess.
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