Underrated Little Cup Pokemon

[v]

The major issues you're going to run into there are Komatana and Carvanha, both of which have STAB Super-Effective moves that are hitting your weaker defense from utterly gargantuan offenses. They are both extremely good. Munchlax (another underrated mon that I plan on talking about!) walks all over you, too. Return is NOT something that Elgyem will appreciate.

I haven't tested this set very extensively, but it's served me well a few times:

@ Evolution Stone
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 76 HP / 196 Def / 236 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Frustration
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch
- Seed Bomb / Earthquake / Pursuit

At first glance, this looks like just another Normal-type that gets run down by Fighters and left in the dust. On closer inspection, however, we see that Munchlax is actually still a very capable tank. With Evolution OR Oran Berry, Gligar is incapable of 2HKOing it. Munchlax, on the other hand, very comfortably 2HKOes even 236/236 Gligar with Ice Punch, Ferrothorn with Fire Punch and can 2HKO Frillish with Seed Bomb, all factoring in Evolution Stone. Munchlax's main purpose is therefore as a stallbreaker, being able to come in and wreck an opposing Pokemon's shit. It runs into trouble against Murkrow and Fighting-types, but nothing is perfect and at the end of the day he's "underrated for a reason." But, if defensive Pokemon are ruining your day, give Munchlax a whirl. You just may like him.

 

[(makeup)]

Haha you're using Frustration.

Anyway, I started using Munchlax when I had Chinchou problems and used that same exact set with Earthquake over Fire Punch and Pursuit in the last slot. I used Ferroseed over it now but it still did really well and I love it. I've found it to pair well with Misdreavus; the combination of the two really apply offensive pressure (I ran NP).

my turn:
taken straight from my LC stall article
[box]

Shelmet @ Evolution Stone
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SpD
Bold nature (+Def, -SpA)
~ Bug Buzz
~ Recover
~ Yawn
~ Spikes / Encore[/box]

Shelmet is one of the most overlooked Pokemon in Little Cup. With its high base 85 Defense and access to Recover, Shelmet is able to come in on almost any physical attack and shake off given damage. Shelmet hits 24 / 28 / 21 defenses with an Evolution Stone, which is absolutely glorious. Shelmet's access to a plethora of support moves makes it even more appealing. Yawn is a boon on any Stall team as forcing the opponent to switch will rack up entry hazard damage. Shelmet also has access to both Spikes and Encore. While the two can not legally be used together, they are both great assets that Shelmet will appreciate. Spikes allows it to support its team by laying down entry hazards to aid Stall. Encore is another method to encourage switches as many physically-attacking Pokemon will set up on Shelmet rather than try to take it down with raw power, which is almost impossible. While Bug typing may look like a setback at first glance, it's definitely another reason why Shelmet shines. Bug resists the two most common attacking types in Little Cup (Ground and Fighting) and more. However, be aware that this leaves Shelmet weak to Stealth Rock, so use a teammate with Rapid Spin!

edit: woah I need to cut down on the amount of times I said Shelmet

 

[Pen Ink]

That Shelmet seems pretty damn awesome. I may switch out Tess for it.

 

[MapleSandwich]

However, be aware that this leaves Shelmet weak to Stealth Rock, so use a teammate with Rapid Spin!

I can hardly believe that they didn't make that thing Steel/Bug, especially considering how the evolution that steals its armor does gain a steel typing. S'like waaaat.

Anyways, this thing does work wonders, although I personally question the need for Bug Buzz on it, at all. It does shit damage to everything. I'd rather give it Baton Pass, even dry, to prevent some weird shit like Mean Look CM Murkrow from getting up to +6 on me.

I personally combine the Shelmet with the DD Guts Larvitar mentioned earlier in the thread. Shelmet can support Larv's sweep with Spikes, and Larvitar can come in on Brave Bird and Heat Wave from Murkrow, as well as just about any other super effective attack hitting Shelmet. I shore up the combination with Scarf Chinchou, and Hippo, to protect against most other common offensive tricks (Carvanha, secondary Murkrow check, Sun, etc), though pending this round of voting I might be able to replace Hippo with something more meaningful.

I'm playing with Cotton Guard Swablu from this thread also, though I believe Swablu is less underrated now that people have seen it--especially anyone without Substitute who has faced my Toxic-Refresh variant (almost no one since Sub is everywhere). Swablu's great natural SpDef, especially with Evo Stone, lets it shrug off even SE hits with Roost. Will come back with more info on the Swablu after Lent assuming it's still relevant to the metagame.

 

[NeoSeth]

That Shelmet seems pretty damn awesome. I may switch out Tess for it.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

The one thing is that Tess has Leech Seed. Although not as solid as Recover, it's still a MAJOR pain for opposing teams. Anything that comes in suddenly starts losing 12.5% of their health per turn, and healing me. Add in Protect and Toxic Spikes, and you have a nasty little Pokemon. Iron Barbs is also cool, plus better SpD.

Also, what's Shelmet's typing? Bug? Yeah, that's not as good as Steel/Grass, with it's resistances to Grass/Water/Electric/Rock/Dark/Ghost, and it's Poison immunity. Bug resists Ground/Fighting/Grass, and is weak to Rock/Flying/Fire (Although Tess is 4x weak to the latter, but whatever).

I guess it depends on your team. I use Tess, but I think Shelmet has a strong chance of working over Tess, since I have a Ghost resist and immunity, and that Fighting/Ground resistance might be nice. I'll give it a whirl, but I don't think it's OMG WAY BETTER THAN TESS. Still good, though.

Also, the big thing is that it it can take a hit from Zuruggu. What it does afterward, I don't know, but...

 

[MapleSandwich]

Also, what's Shelmet's typing? Bug? Yeah, that's not as good as Steel/Grass, with it's resistances to Grass/Water/Electric/Rock/Dark/Ghost, and it's Poison immunity. Bug resists Ground/Fighting/Grass, and is weak to Rock/Flying/Fire (Although Tess is 4x weak to the latter, but whatever).

The thing is, there are a lot more decent water resists in LC right now than Fighting/Ground resists, especially when considering your spikes slot. It's much easier to go with Shelmet for its great Yawn and use Puriuru (whatevre it's called) or Chinchou than use Tesshiido and have to worry about carrying redundant Zuruggu and Meditite counters so you don't get swept after they get the (basically) free attack from coming in on Tesshiido. At least, that is how I understand it, and I've been loving it lately.

EDIT: of course, Zuruggu can get an instant wake up from Yawn off Shed Skin, but you lose nothing if they do compared to Tess, and if they don't they are much easier to counter for the rest of the game.

 

[Darkamber8828]

I personally combine the Shelmet with the DD Guts Larvitar mentioned earlier in the thread. Shelmet can support Larv's sweep with Spikes, and Larvitar can come in on Brave Bird and Heat Wave from Murkrow, as well as just about any other super effective attack hitting Shelmet.

I personally have found DD Orbtar takes LO Krow BBs like a paper bag on fire. Krow can also Substall Stone Edge, with its excellent reliability and all.

Not to mention most of the things that kill it, like Gligar and Edgequake resists Bronzor and Baltoy, are immune to spikes and switch on Shelmet for free.

Anyway, on Shelmet, it's a damn shame it can't have Spikes and Encore at the same time.

Has anyone tried Toxic over Yawn? It forces switches too, y'know, and helps...kill stuff.

Agilichou looks like a good partner. Spikes help kill many of its checks and counters like Lickitung and Munchlax, and it resists Fire and Flying for Shelmet, and scares Rocks off with STAB Water. Shelmet also handily resists both of its weaknesses and scares off Snover with Bug Buzz.

 

[Blue_Star]

Chinchou is very underrated too, being able to wall and kill a lot of water types, as well as having awesome coverage.

 

[MASTER-]

Chinchou is very underrated too, being able to wall and kill a lot of water types, as well as having awesome coverage.

I use one of those every single time. its amazing.

 

[kokoloko]

I wouldn't say Chinchou is underrated, I see it a lot. On the other hand, I find this poor guy to be insanely underrated:

Drilbur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sand Rush
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spd / 236 Atk / 36 SAtk / 216 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk) / Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Shadow Claw
- Swords Dance / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Frustration / Rock Slide

The first nature and spread gives it 32 Speed under Sandstorm and 19 Attack, which it can quickly boost to 38 with Swords Dance. Earthquake hits anything that doesn't resist it like a ton of bricks. Shadow Claw OHKOs non-Eviolite Misdreavus before a Swords Dance, so it obviously KOs bulky ones at +2 as well. Frustration is better than Rock Slide, since it still one-shots all the non-Gligar birds (aka. offensive Murkrow), while hitting Monmen and Gligar (does about half at +2) much harder.

The second spread gives you a better way of dealing with Gligar, as Hidden Power 2HKOs it on the switch. It still retains most of its power, at 18 Attack, and all of its speed, although dropping some of it to git Gligar harder might be okay. This still gets walled to hell and back by Bronzor though.

Needs Hippopotas support, but that's cool, since Hippo is pretty good at laying down Stealth Rock and Roaring random stuff away. Most people on #littlecup seemed to think Drilbur sucks, but nah, they just suck at using it. =P

 

[Heysup]

I don't think Drilbur is underrated, it's just underused.

 

[Nails]

Should run a bit of bulk tbh. It doesn't need 32 speed. I haven't used it since near the japanese release, but it's definitely powerful. Bronzor shits on it (like so much other stuff) but outside that it's tough to answer.

 

[Elevator Music]

As far as Shelmet goes, I might actually consider running Struggle Bug on it. Its not like you're really doing a ton of damage with Bug Buzz, so giving yourself an easier time against special-oriented Pokemon seems worth a try???

 

[MapleSandwich]

As far as Shelmet goes, I might actually consider running Struggle Bug on it. Its not like you're really doing a ton of damage with Bug Buzz, so giving yourself an easier time against special-oriented Pokemon seems worth a try???

Plan: Struggle Bug on Zuruggu on the switch, send it to -1 SpDef

Bring in Croagunk and Vacuum Wave (resisting both STABs? Yes please!)

Sounds solid to me.

 

[Al_Alchemist]

Plan: Struggle Bug on Zuruggu on the switch, send it to -1 SpDef

Bring in Croagunk and Vacuum Wave (resisting both STABs? Yes please!)

Sounds solid to me.

Struggle Bug lowers opponent's Special Attack not Special Defense, by one. That said, Bug Buzz still does around 50% on Slowpoke and stuff. I would like to see some calcs against special attackers post Struggle Bug though.

 

[GhastlyNinja]

I find Vulpix to be extremely Deadly in Little cup.

 

[Moo]

We all do :\

Koffing is a pretty cool mon as it can counter scraggy and other fighters barring tite. Runs a beats Scarf set too ;D (i kid)

Machop needs some love although it probably will get it if Meditite gets banned.

Recover Meditite. gg

 

[Heysup]

I find Vulpix to be extremely Deadly in Little cup.

I don't think Vulpix is underrated or that good.....

 

[Darkamber8828]

LOPix is underrated. Subpar Spa is redeemed by stab drought lo fire blasts, decent speed, and hypnosis drops a check/counter. If luck is with you.

 

[(makeup)]

Recover Meditite? WHAT. The purpose of Meditite is to get momentum or die. Think of it like this--every single competitive move Meditite has keeps momentum, have you noticed that?
Drain Punch: heals
Ice Punch: OHKOs Gligar. Sucks without a OHKO
ThunderPunch: Risky but keeps momentum if you predict perfectly (always use Drain Punch after ThunderPunch on Slowpoke because it'll ALWAYS switch out to Regenerate and probably go to Tesshiido or something to take ThunderPunch)
Zen Headbutt: OHKOs everything
Bullet Punch: regains momentum by revenging weak stuff

Get it? Don't use Recover Meditite.

 

[fatty]

Recover Meditite? WHAT. The purpose of Meditite is to get momentum or die. Think of it like this--every single competitive move Meditite has keeps momentum, have you noticed that?
Drain Punch: heals
Ice Punch: OHKOs Gligar. Sucks without a OHKO
ThunderPunch: Risky but keeps momentum if you predict perfectly (always use Drain Punch after ThunderPunch on Slowpoke because it'll ALWAYS switch out to Regenerate and probably go to Tesshiido or something to take ThunderPunch)
Zen Headbutt: OHKOs everything
Bullet Punch: regains momentum by revenging weak stuff

Get it? Don't use Recover Meditite.

It seems that ever since the creation of the new CAP Mon, people have been trying to fit the argument of 'momentum' into everything. Yes, no doubt Meditite gains momentum. This isn't its sole purpose though, it is merely an effect of its immense power. Your same argument could be placed on DPP Salamence: It has incredible power and a very good movepool, so surely it must use all of it's moveslots on attacking moves! Yet, Classic Mixmence used Roost, which is obviously not an attacking move. Why is that? The answer is simple. It's because with Roost, Mence could stay alive longer, meaning it has additional time to straight up wreck shit. The same could be said about Meditite. Tite is going to be forcing switches, obviously, so when it causes that switch, why not use that extra time to recover back HP that you've lost over the course of the match, allowing you to stay in the game even longer. Believe it or not, many players rely on slowly wearing down Meditite until it's KOd. If it has Recover, it's a lot harder to do this, especially when it has Eviolite.

Now, with that said, I'm not condoning the use of Recover, as I too think it's a bad choice for a moveslot. I've based this idea on a totally different notion than you though and I am merely trying to point out how your argument is flawed. What I think is that Recover isn't obsolete because it messes with momentum,(in fact, simply having Meditite alive longer may create opportunities later in the match to gain even more momentum), but because it's essentially a waste of an attacking moveslot. Meditite needs all the coverage it can get if it's trying to rip holes into teams, and it's very hard to do that with only 3 attacking moves.

 

[kokoloko]

I think Recover Meditite sucked because I tried it way back when I first started using it with Eviolite... and yeah... it sucks. Its like "hey Misdreavus, come right in why don't you?"

EDIT: And before someone says that the same argument applies to Drain Punch; no, Drain Punch actually threatens shit, so you can use that to your advantage when it comes to prediction. Speaking of Drain Punch, that shit heals you anyway, so yeah, Recover is kinda stupid.

 

[Heysup]

It seems that ever since the creation of the new CAP Mon, people have been trying to fit the argument of 'momentum' into everything. Yes, no doubt Meditite gains momentum. This isn't its sole purpose though, it is merely an effect of its immense power. Your same argument could be placed on DPP Salamence: It has incredible power and a very good movepool, so surely it must use all of it's moveslots on attacking moves! Yet, Classic Mixmence used Roost, which is obviously not an attacking move. Why is that? The answer is simple. It's because with Roost, Mence could stay alive longer, meaning it has additional time to straight up wreck shit. The same could be said about Meditite. Tite is going to be forcing switches, obviously, so when it causes that switch, why not use that extra time to recover back HP that you've lost over the course of the match, allowing you to stay in the game even longer. Believe it or not, many players rely on slowly wearing down Meditite until it's KOd. If it has Recover, it's a lot harder to do this, especially when it has Eviolite.

This is mostly off topic, however I'd rather address it than warn for it because of the false claim.

The fact that CAP used some sort of momentum concept has nothing to do with anything regarding momentum, in fact this is the first I've heard of it and we've been throwing around that concept in LC since years ago.

Momentum is one of the most important things in Little Cup because of how "sensitive" each mon is. With Meditite, you honestly can't reliably switch into it if you're using 4 attacking moves, including Bullet Punch (so 3 coverage moves). Recover is never useful because there are no 100% counters. And please don't compare Meditite to Salamence as if Mence didn't have perfect 2 move coverage with Fire Blast and Draco Meteor (besides Heatran) and had an extra moveslot.

Additionally, if you mispredict your Drain Punch into Misdreavus then you have to switch out (or if you happen to have it low enough, you can Bullet Punch), however you cannot under any circumstances survive that incoming Shadow Ball, and even if you could, Recover would not help. Meditite can take maybe one hit here or there, but it is literally 2HKOed by any Pokemon with some resemblance of an offensive stat. When you are 2HKOed by everything, the goal is to hit something back. You want to survive that Crunch and OHKO Zuruggu back. You want to survive that Earthquake and OHKO Gligar back. Recover helps in no situation.

 

[Blue_Star]

Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 236 Def / 236 SDef / 36 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Taunt
- Toxic

This is awesome. So awesome that it got my alt to #2 on the ladder ("Brazil has LC too"). If you use something like Ferroseed/Shelmet for Spikes, you just have to spam Whirlwind to win the game, Roosting off the damage and Taunting healing attempts. Toxic is for stuff like Gligar, who is immune to Spikes/Toxic Spikes and can Roost of the damage. Knock Off can be used here too, since it completely trolls Eviolite users, who are everywhere. Also, this is best partnered with Snover, who can set the Hail which will slowly chip away at everyone but Vullaby, who has Overcoat.

 

[ElDynamite]

Yes, if you paired that with Snover, you could even "slowly chip away" at steel/ poison types. But they get hit by spikes too. So, WhirlWind/ Roost spam :D That's a LOT like my Lugia...