All Gens Underrated Sets

#1
It seems we don't have a thread for these, and rather have them scattered in various places, so here it is; a megathread of sorts. Rather than waiting for SPL's conclusion, here's a thread open 24/7/365 for you to dump whatever you want, whenever you want.

Also, I (and many others) love when sets posted are discussed by others, citing instances where they have seen the set work to great effect, or anything really. For example, I really like this RBY bulky Exeggutor; it's very effectivene at putting pressure on the opponent while checking dangerous Pokemon and keeping its teammates healthy. It features on Raish's stall team, used in this important SPL battle.

Past threads of a similar nature, for your convenience;
- Post-SPL 6 set dump
- Post-SPL 5 set dump
- Project RoA


Have fun!
 

McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
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#2
Maybe this thread could be renamed "underrated sets" or something like this? Anyway, it feels the most appropriate for the stuff I wanna showcase. I've used/tested with all these things in the Smogon Tour and they're all for BW.
EDIT: merged it here! Thanks to atomicllamas who is clearly the best user on this site :D!

Conkeldurr (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Mach Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch

Sheer Force Conkeldurr isn't commonly seen, altho it makes for a potent threat to Reuniclus-lacking balanced teams. The catch here is the EV spread. You outspeed a bunch of defensive dudes that won't see it coming (Politoed, Skarmory, lot of Jellicent, Bulky Scizor, Hippowdon). The natural bulk is enough to trade against Offense, and a strong priority is always welcomed.
---

Dragonite (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 32 HP / 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Superpower
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

This is somewhat of a lure/lead Dragonite. Thanks to Multiscale, you pretty much survive anything so it acts like a Focus Sash would in DPP (that's why you want to lead with it, because it'll probably be broken due to Sand/Hazards otherwise). Moveset is designed to lure the Pokemons commonly thrown at it, such as Landorus-T or Skarmory. Dragonite is a great Pokemon to experiment with in general, its special movepool is threatening as all hell and it can destroy everything with the right move. Mixed Espeed or Spec are both good in their own right for example.
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Duosion (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Psyshock
- Thunder Wave
- Calm Mind
- Recover

I wanted to toy with this little fellow for a while because what's more threatening than Reuniclus? Two Reuniclus obviously. Only use it if you already have Reuniclus in the team obviously. You should try to aim for some kind of synergy between the blobs. I used it in conjunction with CM LO Reuniclus, as TWave can give it the upperhand against Tyranitar, Scizor and other Reuniclus. If you wanna try it out, I suggest considering HP Fire or Signal Beam on the TWave slot as they both have their merits (Signal Beam beats Sableye, HP Fire Bulky Scizor). It has the same SpA as Reuniclus so you can also consider an OTR set (Shadow Ball/HP Fire both help your side-foetus). Trick Flame Orb Reuniclus is also a good buddy.
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Gliscor (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 204 SpD / 56 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Roost

I dunno if people caught up yet with this, but you should really start using SD Gliscor in BW. It works just as well as in ORAS if not better. Ice Fang is my favorite coverage move in the tier because it hits Skarmory, and owns other Gliscor, Landorus-T, Dragonite, Garchomp better than Facade, but Facade ain't bad either (better vs Rotom-W). EV spread is up to appreciation and team needs, more speed or physical bulk work just as well and check different threats.

You probably want either Mag, a team that doesn't give in to Spike or a spinner with that set because it invites Skarmory in all day long (but so does a ton of Pokemons in BW anyway). What's so amazing with that Gliscor is that it's pretty much the sturdiest CM Reuniclus check out there, as it isn't pressured by Spikes and can't even be paralysed.
---

Gliscor (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Acrobatics

Here it is again, this time with a twist to its offensive variant. I've been using the classic Acrobat in the past few months and I always felt like I needed both the speed and the attack boost to sweep, but could never pull them both off, so I came up with this. Of course, you miss the immediate Acrobatic if you need it, but at least, you can often get both the boosts you need to clean a game. Hyper Cutter is great so Landorus-T can't play around you and Jolly makes you outspeed its Scarf variant after the Salac boost.
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Mienshao (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Def
- Rock Slide
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

All my pokepals know how much I love Mienshao in BW these days, but here is a set that is criminally underrated, even moreso that its usual LO variant. Scarf Mienshao has some awesome tools for itself. First of all, it doesn't get weakened throughout the game like any Scarfer would thanks to Regenerator. U-Turn is always a great option on your scarfer to scout and rack up damages (especially with hazards), and late game HJK is actually a good finishing option. It cleans well against Offense. What seals the deal to me is its speed tier though. With Scarf Mienshao, you have a tool against the oh so fearsome Volcarona. Sure it doesn't have the same defensive utility a Garchomp, Terrakion or Landorus-T would, but you have the durability AND the speed tier for you with this one.
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Mienshao (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 Atk / 32 SpA / 232 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 30 Def
- Substitute
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Baton Pass

I'm not done yet with Mienshao. Fighting/Ice is actually an amazing coverage and Mienshao threatens so much Pokemons that it can easily get free turns. You might be walled by the likes of Reuniclus and Jellicent, but you can abuse them by Baton Passing Substitutes to some powerhouses like Hydreigon. Once again, Regenerator is clutch to let you abuse this strategy without being put on a timer.
---

Slowking (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Fire Blast

Slowking is already considered a great underrated Pokemon in BW, but it's usually as an utility wall and thus doesn't fit Offense really well. The same playstyle that absolutely hates Scarf Keldeo under Rain. Well here is a good potential answer for you. I've seen this set a bit in the past, but I think not many players consider it in their building nowadays. Recover works over Trick Room if you're not into that, Surf over Scald, it also has some cool other options such as Ice Beam and Grass Knot (Dragons, Gastrodon). You might even wanna try out Nasty Plot with or without TR (a la BW UU Cofagrigus).
---

I'm done for now, there were more gimmicky stuff that aren't as easy to fit on teams. I like the concept of leads/anti-leads in general in BW tho, as showcasted by the DNite. I used Medicham a fair bit (Fake Out/Bullet/HJK/Ice Punch), but it's kinda inconsistent. There are a few teams I built with Seismitoad, it has the unique niche of being a Rotom-W/Keldeo check that can set up SR (and doesn't give up momentum like Celebi).
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
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#3
Gsc:
Qwilfish Leftovers
-spikes
-surf
-sludge bomb
-curse

Why Qwilfish when you have Cloy? It's Toxic immune. Okay, then why not use Forr? Qwilfish can beat Tentacruel with Curse. Also, the other two spikers are a liability against machamp, but Qwilfish actually counters non-EQ variants, which helps quite a bit if you find yourself wanting spikes but already having 3 Machamp-weak mons on your team. Qwilfish also does other assorted nice things such as checking non-AA Vap, out speeding Lax at +1, and giving sunnybeamers something to think about.

Qwilfish is often seen as the "silly" spiker, but it can actually be useful in a way that neither Cloy nor Forr can.
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
#5
I used dual-screen Zapdos in one of my earlier SPL battles last year. Almost got dicked by Steelix because I didn't have Hidden Power but it turned out to not have Rock Slide and I had Eggy backing it up anyway.

Any Eggy with Leech Seed in GSC. ;[ Leech Seed is only 1/16 in RBY, so it's not surprising you don't see it there because it's almost uselessly weak against anything except Chansey. It got its damage buff in GSC and still nobody seems to use it except me, despite the fact it sets up damage spike turns, aids switch-ins, and helpfully works against everything except other Eggy (commonly). It's a nice, general "I don't have to predict shit" move to use since you don't want to just throw out Sleep Powder willy-nilly. Others don't like it because it doesn't damage on the switch under GSC mechanics, but as long as you have Spikes it's still really good.
 
#6
I agree that Leech Seed is a fine move on eggy, I don't really like it on a set with Boom though. Sub Seed eggy happens to be very effective with wreaking up residual damage when paired with spikes since it forces quite alot switches and can play around the mons that regularly beat it with stun spore and sub (evading pursuit, going for sub-para shenanigans, etc). The set is by no means a secret anymore at this point, it's still niche and underrated in my opinion.

Exeggutor (M) @ Leftovers
- Stun Spore
- Psychic
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

From my experience this is really hit or miss in terms of effectiveness. Some teams struggle quite a bit with this before being able to even force it out. It spreads para effectively, chips the opposing team often pretty hard and if they are lacking heal bell this can be great support for a slower sweeper to push through some major damage later in the game. In other games I tend to just miss out on the boom or a coverage move for the immediate threat and ability to remove something. Especially when they got proper support in a combination of heal bell, spin, effective status absorbers this can be quite a deadweight because it happens to be a rather mediocre status spreader in those matches whereas regular Eggy would be a good wallbreaker.


Exeggutor (M)
- Thief
- Psychic
- Sleep Powder / Stun Spore
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Giga Drain

I quite like this eggy as a variant without boom in the lead spot since it can lead to quite explosive starts, crippling usually key pokemon that come in to absorb the sleep or take attacks (electrics, skarmory, snorlax). People will usually not expect the coverage move on this which make them really effective when they are trying to absorb the explosion.


Exeggutor (M) @ Leftovers
- Explosion
- Psychic
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Another set that plays around with the coverage move being unexpected. Dropping the powder of choice for another coverage move might seem counterproductive since the combination of status and boom is what makes eggy so threatening, this is more of a bulky mon that just throws out damage and makes it hard for the opponent to ever switch in when spikes are up.

Eggy is a mon that forces certain play patterns from the opponents because of the immediate threat of status and boom. Trying to abuse that is pretty effective with some good bluffing because of Eggy's versatility.
 
#7
Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Slack Off

Does all the things slowking always does, like checking keldeo and such, while also having the bulk to somewhat check shit like mamo (see game vs mcm). Most notably, it is a hard reuni counter, albeit somewhat pursuit weak (although not too much due to bulk, regen, and scald). Speed creep is a good idea, I kept my spread to myself.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SpA / 72 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Hydro Pump

Twave is good on everything ofc, esp this cuz shit like lati/hydra likes to switch in. The offensive spread, in conjunction with twave, limits the ability of shit like reuniclus to counter it thoruhgout a game. Hp fire beats ferro and scizor, which is needed due to lack of WoW. Most sands struggle with this over time, I find. Still enough bulk to check rain/waters if not as well.
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
#8
I agree that Leech Seed is a fine move on eggy, I don't really like it on a set with Boom though.
I don't know where this idea comes from but there's no reason you can't have both on the same set. I typically use it over Giga Drain, whose only major use is not getting the dick from Pursuit Tyranitar since Psychic is better against most other targets anyway. Even so not every TTar has Pursuit, it may not even use it in favor of Crunch or Fire Blast because Eggy certainly doesn't always switch out immediately anyway, and it's a prime Sleep Powder target. Vaporeon to a lesser extent but for the most part either LS or GD will suffice against it.

I don't like Substitute since one of the main draws of Leech Seed is setting up awesome switch-in opportunities, where LS recovery nullifies the damage taken or even heals the mon brought in, and you don't need Sub if you're sitting there spamming attack moves trying to pressure/damage spike a kill because your opponent doesn't have time to throw attacks at it anyway. I suppose you could argue Sub is better than GD here since TTar won't easily get around Sub + SS anyway, although having GD alongside LS is a nice way to boost short-term recovery against stuff like Raikou while staying offensive, but I'd just as well have HP Fire since Skarm is gonna dick Sub sets with Whirlwind anyway and it also covers other Eggy (plus Forry). Explosion is still Explosion. Subseed is much better in later generations due to various mechanical changes in the battle system benefitting it.

Which I'll list because I really love Subseed:
  • Due to the EV system, you now take more damage when investing in offense since you can no longer max all stats. Substitute is better defensively, as it now blocks more damage.
  • Recovery is less ubiquitous, from the EV system boosting damage all-around to Sleep Talk getting nerfed to Leftovers no longer being the default item for everything because there are actually good alternatives... Chip damage becomes more important because it actually sticks now.
  • Leech Seed now damages/recovers on the switch-in.
  • Greater number of entry hazards punishes switching around Leech Seed harder, if you get them stacked up.
So the lesson here is: Subseed is broken and shit like Sceptile are way underrated in general because Subseed is broken. \o/
 
#9
i agree with mr.e. giga drain is extremely... underwhelming. leech seed will probably get more done. but then again, so would stun spore/sleep powder. and hp fire.
 

McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL Championis the Smogon Tour Season 14 Champion
#10
Tesung, I like NP Slowking a lot! I have considered it myself as it's a good win condition against a lot of teams (lot of bulky Sands/Rain) and Slowking's staying power really helps to pull through. I think it should be noted that CM Reuniclus is still a toughie if you need to switch on it. Psyshock at +6 only deals 35-41%, which is still a 3KO 72% of the time, forcing it to Recover to avoid a crit that'd seal the deal. However, if the Reuniclus manages to get at +6, Psyshock is a 2KO in Sand (58% of the time).

If you set-up at the same time, Scald will not do enough to 2KO at any point in the boosting war. The difference here is you reach +6 faster than Reuniclus, granting you more chances to get the crit since you force Reuniclus to Recover/Calm Mind more.

Even if Reuniclus switches on Slowking as it boosts, you won't kill it without a crit, altho early Scald can burn some Recover PPs for Psyshock. The kicker here is that if Reuniclus is a bit weakened, Scald has a good chance to bust through. +2 vs +0 will do 46-54 and +2 vs +1 will do 31-36. A Reuniclus below ~72% can't hope to save its life.

If for some reason, the battle is happening in the Rain, Slowking pretty much wins if it they set-up at the same time or went first.

That being said, watch out for status on the Slowking as it will severely harm it if you need it for Reuniclus.

Overall, the speed creep will play a big role to give one player the edge or not in this battle. One thing to note though is that at least, if Slowking doesn't kill Reuniclus, it can hope to put it the kill range of something else before dying (thanks to Psyshock forcing the Reuniclus to waste its Recover), such as Landorus-T, so the threat is still handled.
 
#11
For Dpp:

Raikou @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Rash Nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Aura Sphere

Just a really good sweeper, a lot of teams rely on Tyranitar/Heatran to check this mon and Aura Sphere Raikou just crushes them. Really good against offensive teams.

Breloom (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Effect Spore
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Spore
- Superpower
- Seed Bomb
- Stone Edge

Just a great anti lead if you want to keep rocks off the field. Also has a lot of utility, switching into a lot of scary pokes like Tyranitar, Starmie and Raikou. Effect spore is pretty troll too. I found a lot of people have been dropping lum berry, I even use spore vs Machamp against certain opponents.

Gyarados (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Waterfall
- Payback
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake/Ice Fang

This is such an underrated threat. Gyarados has a really easy time switching into stuff in the mid game and if you get your predictions right it's a KO every time. Wrecks both Defensive and Offensive teams. The stealth rock weakness is probably what puts people off, but if you can delay your opponents rocks with an anti lead like Scarf Loom then it's really not an issue.
 
#12
Fuck Tesung for posting my sets ;_; jkjk ily
Dragonite @ Choice Specs
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hurricane
- Thunder
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast

Great rain abuser, can't go wrong with hurricane. Focusblast is a great lure for ttar once its revealed that its specs to opp. Overall it is a pretty strong mon that hits most of normal dnite's general switchins for tons of damage. Still able to check keldeo more or less.

Thundurus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Different kind of thundy then ure general thundy. Lefties over ebelt because generally the sand chip is more annoying then the extra damage is warranted. Fun lure that pairs well with other mons that want hippo to be taken down generally. Also creates some fun volt turn cores. Overall a pretty solid mon and gives a bit more variety then the general set up thundy.

Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Toxic / Sucker Punch
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Ice Punch

I think credits go more to Mcmeghan for this set. Pretty sick set has alot of staying power and a lot more effective as a keldeo check imo then the normal toxicroak set. Can even check sub variants of gyarados which is pretty sick. Hits hard and can toxic fat waters (jelly and gastro) to help other rain abusers break through. Pisses of skarm also. Very fun mon with some pretty cool techs to make it more interesting.
 
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#13
Okay for the convenience of all of us I made a pastebin organizing all the ADV sets in the threads (SPL 5/6 Dump, Project ROA) and brought them into this pastebin. This took be around 3-4 hours so I hope you guys enjoy it. They are all alphabetized and its a simple system, look at the list of pokemon and press ctrl+f (cmd+f if on mac) on your keyboard and keep pressing the down button until you get to the pokemon you want. I plan on doing ones for GSC, BW, RBY, DPP in that order. So expect one for GSC this week. (I got midterms so I am kind of busy.)

Anyways, I hope you like it and if I missed anything I will add it I plan to add outside sets later maybe and if we get a dump of sets from this thread from SPL 7 I will update them (This is the first draft of the ADV Pastebin.
(http://pastebin.com/TCaYQXM4)
 
#14
Going to post options for zapdos other than sleep talk, I think newer players are almost exclusively using ST not because of "copy+paste strategydex lol", but because they don't really know where to start deviating.

-Reflect/Light Screen - Already mentioned by borat in an above post.
-Whirlwind - still viable, like ST Raikou. Uncommon yet effective, can catch a lot of people off guard. Keeps cheeky laxes from setting up on you.
-Drill Peck - hits egg, machamp, hera, frees up zap to use HP Water.
-HP Fire - Hits egg, steelix, forry, beats hera better than DP. Keeps you from using HP Ice/Water rather than ST though, so be wary.
-Thunder Wave - mentioned by borat in his guide, makes zap the best paraspreader in the metagame bar stun spore egg. Also gives zap more leniency to use Thunderbolt, to help vap, zard, and druidcruel matchups.
-Toxic - Good at catching kou, lax, ttar, non-nido grounds. Toxic Spike Shuffle teams would probably prefer Kou's phazing potential though.

As for underrated mons, Druidcruel and cursehera look really good right now. Tenta doesn't like the slight drop in vap usage but still have cloysters and thunder electrics everywhere to abuse, while cursehera only needs skarm out of the way (likes non-DP zap, non-FB Nido, Non-FB/PS/Psychic Gar, doesn't mind FB champ/ttar) to start setting up.

Edit @ Isa: it has been, borat pointed it out himself in a metagame analysis in mid-2011
 
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Isa

CHINGUYA
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#15
As for underrated mons, Druidcruel and cursehera look really good right now. Tenta doesn't like the slight drop in vap usage but still have cloysters and thunder electrics everywhere to abuse, while cursehera only needs skarm out of the way (likes non-DP zap, non-FB Nido, Non-FB/PS/Psychic Gar, doesn't mind FB champ/ttar) to start setting up.
under this criteria curse heracross has been really good for a bunch of years
 

Reymedy

ne craint personne
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#16
Tesung, I like NP Slowking a lot! I have considered it myself as it's a good win condition against a lot of teams (lot of bulky Sands/Rain) and Slowking's staying power really helps to pull through. I think it should be noted that CM Reuniclus is still a toughie if you need to switch on it. Psyshock at +6 only deals 35-41%, which is still a 3KO 72% of the time, forcing it to Recover to avoid a crit that'd seal the deal. However, if the Reuniclus manages to get at +6, Psyshock is a 2KO in Sand (58% of the time).

If you set-up at the same time, Scald will not do enough to 2KO at any point in the boosting war. The difference here is you reach +6 faster than Reuniclus, granting you more chances to get the crit since you force Reuniclus to Recover/Calm Mind more.

Even if Reuniclus switches on Slowking as it boosts, you won't kill it without a crit, altho early Scald can burn some Recover PPs for Psyshock. The kicker here is that if Reuniclus is a bit weakened, Scald has a good chance to bust through. +2 vs +0 will do 46-54 and +2 vs +1 will do 31-36. A Reuniclus below ~72% can't hope to save its life.

If for some reason, the battle is happening in the Rain, Slowking pretty much wins if it they set-up at the same time or went first.

That being said, watch out for status on the Slowking as it will severely harm it if you need it for Reuniclus.

Overall, the speed creep will play a big role to give one player the edge or not in this battle. One thing to note though is that at least, if Slowking doesn't kill Reuniclus, it can hope to put it the kill range of something else before dying (thanks to Psyshock forcing the Reuniclus to waste its Recover), such as Landorus-T, so the threat is still handled.
mostly coz the bold 252/252 spread sucks, you can tailor the spread in order to break through a boosting reu but you need more spa investment
 
#17
DP OU lead (or just use it every gen if you're cool)

Cloyster @ Life Orb
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spikes
- Payback
- Explosion
- Ice Shard

I used this on my latest SPL team, but it didn't do much in that particular game. However, it was doing really well when I was testing and I think it matches well vs. most leads. You can choose whether you want to set up Spikes or boom first turn on things like Swampert/Hippo to prevent SR. Against Machamp you either boom or switch obviously. Payback is really nice for catching Rotoms who think you might spin and the Starmies who will want to spin your spikes away (it's also for Azelf leads). Though, the main reason to use this is because Cloyster is really cool.
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
#18
Unfortunately, Heracross needs more than Skarm out of the way to run shit over. Zapdos is still a counter, Drill Peck or not, as you need way too many boosts before you deal enough damage to really threaten it. By the time you're ready to actually kill Zapdos, it's already 3HKOed as you failed to Sleep Talk Rest every other turn or it just buttblasted you with a crit. Now, it's pretty strong with those two out of the way but still not quite ironclad. There's most Gengar, some Nidoking and Machamp variants, AA Vaporeon, plus Eggy (and Starmie) still nails you for substantial damage in revenge.

On the note of HP Fire Zapdos, which is really dumb don't do it, I have... well, that's a secret for later in SPL I hope. But Whirlwind is pretty legit. I had the matchup I wanted against EW with Reflect/WW Zapdos. That's the sort of thing you usually see on Raikou instead but I think it works just fine on Zapdos as well. The idea on my team in particular was that I already have Blissey backing up Snorlax for covering Electrics, so instead of being overly redundant with Raikou I instead swapped it for Zapdos because it stops Machamp from ramming my ass and is a less enticing opening for Marowak. Zapdos is no lesser defensively than Raikou overall, just against different things and Raikou is the usual in a vaccum because it makes a nice pairing with Skarm. Still, Zapdos is a fair pivot if your other four mons cover that stuff better.

If you pair TWave with WW instead of Reflect, you actually do something Raikou can't while becoming the best status spreader in the game with Spikes down.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#19
Paralyzing Zapdos is plenty for Heracross to be really scary for it. I find having my own Zapdos be a Twaver is pretty good at paralyzing the opponent's; just play for the Zapper ditto & catch him with Twave. The key is to do it without damaging Zapdos so he can't rest it off, so stuff like Bslam Lax or Steelix or Marowak wouldn't work.

Tentacruel is nice for being able to set up on Spikers, but struggles a lot with ST CurseLax. The latter is my main turn-off with it.
 

Mr.E

im the best
is a Pre-Contributoris a Past SPL Champion
#20
I'm sad I didn't get to display its full power because Johnflict RNGed me as is usual for players who are my opponents, but I still want to showcase the boss GSC Alakazam.

I ran Light Screen + Counter as secondary moves (Psychic and Recover obviously being the other two). I think Counter is an interesting option on Zam, as an opponent more likely expects Encore instead which is incompatible (non-RBY egg move + RBY TM). However, until Counter is revealed (or another RBY TM move) Encore demands respect and opponents aren't likely to boost in front of Zam. This means a typical Snorlax switch, for example, is forced to immediately fire off an attack and summarily gets eaten alive by Counter. It also eats non-boosting Snorlax sets alive, I suppose.

Light Screen wasn't really there to force the issue, Zam holds its own against other special attackers anyway, but I like what it brings to the table. Lead LS Zam effectively punishes the common Zapdos and Raikou leads while also beating Nidoking, unlike say lead Snorlax or Forry if you want to opt out of the Zap-Kou-Nido RPS triangle of most common leads. LS also helps protect Zam from switching out of Pursuit, and likewise sets the switch-in up for good things, to punish Umbreon and Tyranitar usage since they would be the preferred switch into Zam instead of Snorlax if the opponent runs one. (Conflict did use TTar.) It also sets up an easy switch out of Raikou or Zapdos later if you don't want to go toe-to-toe with them, which Zam can beat in a straight 1v1 but in the context of an actual 6v6 battle, you don't want Zam exposed to potential Thunder PAR any longer than necessary.

While lack of coverage for your fellow Psychics can be bothersome on the offensive, no single secondary attack can hit all of them anyway (e.g. Eggy resists TPunch, Starmie resists both Fire and Ice). LS sorta hedges against all of them, since certainly none of them appreciate dealing half damage even if you can't KO them, and can setup Snorlax or some other heavy hitter for success. Both screens are compatible with Encore if you want useful team-oriented stuff to do outside of pseudohazing. Reflect would obviously be more immediately useful since it's generally wiser to prey on Zam's asstastic Defense than its respectable SpD, but LS is better for setting up kills since setup sweepers in general are more vulnerable to special attacks whether it's type weaknesses or because of Curse boosting Defense. Drumlax appreciates being able to switch in while taking as little absolute damage as possible.

Nice, nonstandard lead outside of the Forretress matchup where you long for Fire Punch.
 
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Jirachee

an insane thinker
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Head TD
#21
To quote everyone's favourite Belgian waffle gobbler, "standard sets, with a twist!"


Tyranitar (M) @ Dark Gem
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 92 SpA / 72 SpD / 92 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast

I'm not the first to come up with Dark Gem on Tyranitar but I haven't seen this set posted anywhere and I think it's a really great set in the current metagame. Basically, it combines the really strong Pursuit from CB that is so potent and a Stealth Rock set, making it a great supporter. Dark Gem means that bulkier stuff like Jellicent, Slowking, etc. can't get away easily which is something Chople has a hard time with. Pursuit actually crushes a switching Scarf Politoed so if you have an Ice Beam lure (something like a Latios) it's pretty easy to win the weather war against Rain offense. More importantly, Crunch has a pretty decent chance to OHKO Reuniclus from full so it makes for an ok check that doesn't really mind being worn down unlike Chople. EVs are so your Dark STABs actually hurt stuff and Skarmory actually can't stall out Fire Blast (faster + 2HKOes.)


Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Smack Down
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rock

This is actually a set people used on Lando-I in BW1, but I think Lando-T is a great user of it too. It's a rocker that's really hard to switch into and obviously checks a bunch of stuff because of Lando's great typing + Intimidate. HP Ice is killer on this set, because it makes it so much harder to play against Smack Down (say they have Skarmory / Rotom, if they have Lando too they could just pivot to it otherwise without minding it much, but with Ice they just get shredded.) Max Speed is not something you see often but I think it's extremely good as long as people use Adamant Garchomp, Modest Thundurus, and others.


Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam / Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Grass Knot / Rapid Spin

If you thought LO Starmie was hard to switch into, try switching into this one. This set crushes Ferrothorn Sand balance because they never really use ScarfTar anymore and usually their only faster mon is like Alakazam or a Scarf Lando-T. People don't really expect 4 attacks Starmie because of Rapid Spin, although you can obviously fit it on the set. You need to be really aggressive when playing this set though, because it doesn't have much survivability, but when played right it's one of the scariest things you can face. If you go with Spin, you should probably go with Hydro + Fire + Psychic as the coverage.


Heatran @ Grass Gem
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Taunt

This set takes more of a pure stallbreaker approach than the classic TobesTran. Grass Gem HP Grass is something I saw Peachy use on Flame Charge Tran so I wanted to try it out. Power Herb Solarbeam isn't really an option in BW because Rain cuts its power in half. Taunt is pretty useful for things like Jellicent spamming Recover to try and waste your weak HP Grass, or like a Tyranitar that'd try to SR on you. It is quite good at wearing down Tyranitar so using it with Latios / Reuniclus / etc. is not a bad idea.


Cloyster @ Normal Gem
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Icicle Spear
- Double-Edge
- Hydro Pump
- Shell Smash

This is more of a fun set than anything serious but it can be scary. +2 Normal Gem Double-Edge one shots many Water types that usually wall Cloyster, for exemple Keldeo, Rotom-W, or Tentacruel. Cloyster can actually set up on some very popular Pokemon (Grounds) thanks to its high defense and STAB. Ice + Water coverage is all you need alongside Double-Edge, Rock Blast isn't really needed.
 
#22
GSC:

Suicune @ Leftovers
- Curse
- Frustration
- Rest
- Roar/Mirror Coat/Surf/Toxic

Curse Suicune is almost impenetrable by anything that is not Thunderbolt or Thunder backed by an Electric type or extremely high Special Attack. If you remember to reduce its Speed (Skarmory's minimum is 145, so 217 should be ok), it cannot be forced out by opposing Roars or Whirlwinds, as long as it is using its own Roar or Mirror Coat on the same turn. Roar prevents it from being draw into Curse duels, whereas Mirror Coat can catch the Electrics off-guard or at least discourage them from attacking. Toxic slowly disposes of Miltank, Misdreavus, Moonlight Umbreon and Synthesis Meganium, while Surf beats Rock/Steel types and can wear down Gengar in the long run.

Tentacruel (M) @ Leftovers
- Curse
- Rapid Spin/Mirror Coat/Screech
- Sludge Bomb
- Surf/Hydro Pump/Screech/Giga Drain/Hidden Power Electric/Hidden Power Ground/Rest

Move availablity is a major problem for GSC Tentacruel, since Swords Dance, Rapid Spin, Mirror Coat, Haze and Confuse Ray are all mutually exclusive. However, breeding moves are still compatible with GSC TMs, so Curse Tentacruel can either Rapid Spin safely versus Cloyster and Forretress, threaten the Electrics with Mirror Coat (Zapdos Thunder: 74.3 - 87.6%) or Screech to get the upper hand against opposing Curse or Growl users and Acid Armor Vaporeon. Surf only has a 23.6% chance to 3HKO Skarmory, yet it might still be better due to Hydro Pump's low PP and accuracy. Giga Drain or HP Electric beat HP Electric Cloyster, the later kills Qwilfish as well, while HP Ground allows it to defeat both Muk and Qwilfish.

Qwilfish (M) @ Leftovers
- Haze/Curse/Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk/Sludge Bomb/Toxic/Surf/Hidden Power Fire
- Spikes

Since even Qwilfish's Hydro Pump only has a slightly above 50% chance to kill Skarmory in 3 hits, a more defensive approach might be a better idea. Haze enables it to completely shut down Vaporeon (assuming no Hidden Power), Machamp, Heracross (no Earthquake), Tentacruel, Muk and Scizor offensively, while still acting as an emergency check for any Curse or Belly Drum user other than Charizard at least once. Toxic is a more reliable way of poisoning Starmie than unboosted Sluge Bomb, whereas Hidden Power kills Forretress in two hits (Surf: only 28 - 33.1%).

Meganium (F) @ Leftovers
- Leech Seed
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Synthesis

Meganium is the ideal GSC Pokemon to create both of the screens, while simultaneously discouraging the opponent from setting up in its face with Leech Seed. Use with offensive glass cannons that are usually stopped by counterattacks rather than Roar, Whirlwind, Growl, Charm, Haze, Curse duels or continuous healing: any Belly Drum user, Vaporeon, Machamp, Tentacruel, Marowak, ...


ADV:

Metagross @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Atk / 12 Def / 184 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Explosion
- Light Screen
- Meteor Mash
- Reflect

Even though ADV is lacking Light Claw, there are already some Pokemon that usually fall short of annihilating half of a team by only a single turn or two. Dragon Dance and offensive Calm Mind users come to mind: Tyranitar, Gyarados, Salamence, Dragonite, Jirachi, Celebi, Suicune, Raikou, ... The screens may solve this problem and Metagross is probably their best user as explosion discourages many obstacles from switching in. 363HP/299Def enable it to always survive an adamant Dugtrio's Earthquake at full health. 222 Speed is just enough to outpace adamant Tyranitar. Use with Magneton.

Metagross @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 248 HP / 12 Def / 240 SAtk / 8 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spd)
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Psychic
- Pursuit

Metagross is the only viable ADV Pursuit user other than Tyranitar and Houndoom, however the later is very situational and sometimes you might want to use the generally stronger Dragon Dance or Choice Band variants of the former. Or you do not want to have Sand Stream in your team at all. This is where Metagross comes into play. It needs near maximum SAtk to actually threaten Gengar with Pursuit. Psychic is a requirement, so defensive Will-o-Wisp Gengar cannot just Thunderbolt it to death, while taking weak 305/2 Atk Meteor Mashes. Hidden Power can be changed to Meteor Mash, if you have another way of dealing with Skarmory and Forretress.

Regice @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 SAtk
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Explosion/Thunder/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Hidden Power Fire/Rest
- Focus Punch
- Ice Beam
- Substitute/Thunder/Thunderbolt/Thunder Wave/Hidden Power Fire/Rest

Adamant Focus Punch Regice outdamages bold Blissey's Softboiled + Leftovers and kills all but the most physically defensive Tyranitars, usually by surprise. With 308HP, its Substitute is guaranteed to survive +1 Thunderbolt from modest Blissey. Electric attacks prevent it from being walled by Water types, whereas Hidden Power Fire punishes Forretress. You could always add some more HP for Rest or Speed in order to outpace Swampert or even Blissey...

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 Spd
IVs: 30 Atk / 30 SAtk
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Grass]/[Ice]
- Metal Sound
- Roar/Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt

With Sleep Talk's viability plummeting after the discovery of the glitch, this is probably Zapdos' best bet to maximize Spikes damage. Lower their Special Defense with Metal Sound and as soon as they are about to switch, use Roar to let them take the damage once more. Or even twice, if the new Pokemon in battle has to flee from Zapdos. Alternatively, anticipate their switch with Baton Pass and bring in a favorably matched Pokemon of your own. 384HP/232Def make sure jolly Aerodactyl will never kill at full health, but some more Special Attack would be nice as well...
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
#23
on topic (gsc): any zapdos with reflect. it doesn't have to run hp ice, thunder[bolt], rest, st guys.
Or Thunder Wave. It's so good, guys, seriously use it. Way better than spamming Thunders and hoping against Raikou. You don't even need Sleep Talk, in fact it's probably better not to run Sleep Talk so you don't let it take status or get slept & have to rely on good talks.


Also let's not overlook Screech Tyranitar:

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
-Rock Slide
-Earthquake
-Screech
-Rest

Idk what the best last move is. I use Rest because I figure Screech does the jobs of Curse and Roar combined, and I figure it'd be nice to psyche the likes of Toxic Lax out with Ttar's ability to shrug off poison. That said, Pursuit is also a natural fit on a Screech set. ScreechTar is a fun (albeit unreliable) answer to Curselax (especially last-Poke Curselax), and it is pretty good at racking up Spikes damage (you should definitely use this with Spikes).
 
#24

jeff (Blissey) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Flamethrower
- Thunder Wave
- Charm
- Soft-Boiled

A pana innovation that was conceived last wcop that i'm quite partial to. I often run this bad boy (girl?) on offenses where I need a large slew of heavy special attackers hard stopped in the one slot. It's a real nice pivot that refuses to give up momentum by stubbornly staying in to throw out a twave and charm you to oblivion. Twave wrecks alot of hard hitters that like to come in on bliss, and 252 satk flamethrower roasts dudes like scizor and loom. Theres one game i remember against boudouche where bliss solo'd its way through a flygon, tyranitar and lucario. Beast.


spacial drift (Cresselia) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 28 SpA / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Rest

A lot of bulky squads have trouble handling cress, which is really quite effective in this meta dominated by dudes like zapdos loom and ape. With the right supporting cast, this moon duck can straight up steamroll certain squads. The EV's allow you to kill 252 hp CB scizor after stealth rocks at +1, with plenty of bulk to set up on the likes of zapdos and starmie. I like to run mine quite fast but that's up to personal preference really. Pair this with dudes that can lure in and cripple tar (i.e. willo tran), or dudes that abuse tar for setup.



houdini (Jirachi) @ Occa Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 16 Atk / 240 SpA / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Thunder
- Iron Head
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Grass Knot


Heres a cool little set I've been using lately that is really effective. This jirachi is a great utility mon, taking out bulky grounds like hippo and swampert with ease. Thunder is really useful when it hits, as the paralysis chance comes in handy vs certain guys like scarftar, rotom and zapdos. Hidden power ground in conjunction with occa is a full stop to any heatrans, so you can pair this with guys that appreciate him gone. He just destroys those offensive teams that rely on DD gyara and DD tar as their foundation.



might edit in some other cool tech later if i have time.
 
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#25
Time to take a massive dump.


Viscero (Raikou) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 104 HP / 252 SpA / 152 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

First set happens to be one that's strong in the lead slot. Sub is great to scout out CB leads, and Toxic allows you to force Blissey back out and keep applying pressure, along with crippling guys like Pert and Regice. The Modest nature is what makes the set really strong. You're already slower than Jolly Duggie, and this nature gives you an advantage against those players who send their Dug in vs a Kou behind a sub in belief that their 32 SpDef EVs will keep them safe vs Hidden Power, and they then proceed to get killed by Modest. Also Modest does ridiculous damage - doing >50% to Metas and some Tars is nothing to be laughed at. Like lead Jynx, this guy can just kill 2 or 3 mons without switching out vs unprepared teams.


Suliman (Milotic) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP / 224 Def / 16 SpA / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Hypnosis
- Toxic
- Surf
- Recover

Another set that can be used in the lead to great effect, double status Milo. Sleep is of course stronger than ever in ADV, and the combination of Hypnosis and Toxic can take people off guard, and also little is lost by forgoing Ice Beam; Milo will still beat Mence 1 on 1, and no longer needs to apply poke pressure to the nonexistent Restalk Zap. Just make sure you're not horribly Mence weak otherwise, all these sets go hand in hand with common sense in teambuilding otherwise.


Red (Snorlax) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 80 HP / 160 Atk / 136 Def / 120 SpD / 12 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Punch
- Self-Destruct

Focus Punch Lax is a powerful twist on utility Lax. The obvious target is a certain dino, but it's also useful for poking down Skarm without having to split EVs etc. If this finds its mark, it's a game-changer. The 12 Speed EVs are for paralyzed Aero, a little secret of the trade.


The Prodigal Son (Medicham) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Atk / 184 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brick Break
- Focus Punch
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball

SubPunch Cham gets rid of all the negative aspects of banded Cham - the heavy reliance on prediction and often negatively weighted 50-50s and potential to lose momentum. This comes in a trade off for less damage, however the difference is surprisingly marginal, especially when your moves are hitting good targets always. If Leftovers aren't shown by sand, this is a particularly strong threat, as the Sub can take people off guard.


Volkan (Blaziken) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 16 HP / 48 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe
Mild Nature
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Fire Blast
- Focus Punch
- Substitute

This one is a variant on the SubPunch Zard I love so dearly with some more power behind its Focus Punch - these ones will stick to guys like Flygon unlike zard's ones. Of course, it trades off being slower and being hit by Spikes and trapped by Dug (the latter might even be a positive in some cases if you're running a P2 team with this opening up holes for DDtar for example). There are also some other less obvious benefits of this over Zard; one being the lack of Electric weak, which can come in handy vs Gengar, and sometimes Jolteon and Zapdos if Blazi is quite healthy.


Ace (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 176 HP / 172 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect

I have to give 100% credit to Mael for creating this set. Protect Zap is really strong vs band users, such as Aero, Meta, and TTar. It's also really good for jewing on Metas in general that want to blow on Zap, as so many of them do. There's also of course the synergy with Toxic. Protect has a lot of general utility, it can come in handy vs guys like MoPCross for example. Thanks again Mael!


Judas Iscariot (Houndoom) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 184 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
- Beat Up
- Will-O-Wisp
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit

They finally fucking fixed this shit on showdown. On a team with 6 mons with respectable base attack stats and 5 or 6 of your mons are still alive, this move is a very comfortable 2HKO vs Blissey, the only mon that can really properly switch into a regular Houndoom and doesn't care about being burnt. (Defensive Cune is considerably less common now, and even then that's forced to Rest and be a momentum loser). I like to run a lot of HP and not much Speed with a Modest nature, as you'll always be slower than the likes of Gengar, and you're better off tanking hits from shit, both phsyical form burnt mons and special. Pursuit is great for Gar removal especially in conjunction with Early Bird, and Fire STAB is as powerful as ever. This is very much duggable ofc, so P2 is always a good partner.


Giovanni (Rhydon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Substitute
- Megahorn

Rhydon. Intended for use on Maggie teams, this guy can get up Subs on the likes of Lax and Aero, and output very strong damage from behind a Sub. The EVs make you faster than Perts. Rhydon loves para support, in SPL I ran T-Wave Gyarados which has sick synergy with Rhydon type wise and strategically too.


Nemesis (Forretress) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Explosion
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Zap Cannon

A twist on Forry, with Zap Cannon for paralyzing Gengars among many things. Many people have tried to make HP Ghost Forry work, which 2HKO's Gar. However, that requires two 50-50 predictions, and on a mon that gets pummeled down easily like Forretress, that's not always feasible. Zap Cannon requires one good prediction to catch Gengar. If it hits, Gar is out for the game, like a porn star who contracts an STD. If it misses, you can proceed to psych out your opponent throughout the game. Of course, you forgo Earthquake which means you can't kill Mag, so I always used Dug with this.

That's it for sets for now, there's more in the works, but my laboratory is restricted access during Classic.
In terms of teambuilding partners for all these sets, I recommend Skarm, TTar, and Pert. Viva RSE.

#freerestalk