Metagame ORAS/XY PU (Serperior Banned)

[666Satans minion666]

Whats would you guys say the speed tier is for PU?

 

[Ranger Mike]

There is no exact speed tier in any meta if there was a main mon to outspeed it would be samurott

 

[PlatypusPrincess]

Because Diglett will actually do something outside of TR

.
252+ Atk Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bastiodon: 300-352 (92.5 - 108.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Diglett Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bastiodon: 312-372 (96.2 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

So, Trapinch does only slighty less damage than Diglett. Banded Diglett. And both are trappers. Trapinch's movepool is also better than Diglett's. This leads to some interesting ideas. Eviolite:

(If it can take Aegislashs Shadow Ball, it should be more than enought to battle against Stall and bulky stuff in general.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Trapinch: 135-159 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Trapinch: 199-235 (67.6 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Trapinch: 121-144 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
... I know Aegislash is not PU, but... still... it has bulk... not amazing... but still... avoiding the 2HKO... let alone the OHKO... when trapping members of stall... this is enought... I am clearly surprised...

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 52 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 199-235 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Avoiding the OHKO without Eviolite... this thing will be hard to take on for stall or defensive pokemon in general, since they tend to be way weaker than Slash.

Yes Trapinch will be a threat against stall, giving it's movepool, power and good enought bulk. It can even take on offensive mons weaker than Slash, and has sash. It is good, even outside of Trick Room. I can see this thing becomming a threat. (The speed is still horrible, thought...).

 

[Peef Rimgar]

.
252+ Atk Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bastiodon: 300-352 (92.5 - 108.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Diglett Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Bastiodon: 312-372 (96.2 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

So, Trapinch does only slighty less damage than Diglett. Banded Diglett. And both are trappers. Trapinch's movepool is also better than Diglett's. This leads to some interesting ideas. Eviolite:

(If it can take Aegislashs Shadow Ball, it should be more than enought to battle against Stall and bulky stuff in general.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Trapinch: 135-159 (58.4 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Trapinch: 199-235 (67.6 - 79.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Trapinch: 121-144 (41.1 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
... I know Aegislash is not PU, but... still... it has bulk... not amazing... but still... avoiding the 2HKO... let alone the OHKO... when trapping members of stall... this is enought... I am clearly surprised...

252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 52 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 199-235 (81.5 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Avoiding the OHKO without Eviolite... this thing will be hard to take on for stall or defensive pokemon in general, since they tend to be way weaker than Slash.

Yes Trapinch will be a threat against stall, giving it's movepool, power and good enought bulk. It can even take on offensive mons weaker than Slash, and has sash. It is good, even outside of Trick Room. I can see this thing becomming a threat. (The speed is still horrible, thought...).

The problem with saying stuff like "with x investment trapinch beats x" is that it can't run all of the evs it wants. For example, me and galbia were debating about this and he mentioned that it outspeeds 0 speed Golem with max investment. But with max speed, it can't run bulk investment to beat some other threat. It all goes in circles to where you basically have to choose right then and there what you're trying to beat. Diglett, however, doesn't really have this issue thanks to it's naturally high speed making it able to avoid having to take hits at all if played properly.

 

[PlatypusPrincess]

The problem with saying stuff like "with x investment trapinch beats x" is that it can't run all of the evs it wants. For example, me and galbia were debating about this and he mentioned that it outspeeds 0 speed Golem with max investment. But with max speed, it can't run bulk investment to beat some other threat. It all goes in circles to where you basically have to choose right then and there what you're trying to beat. Diglett, however, doesn't really have this issue thanks to it's naturally high speed making it able to avoid having to take hits at all if played properly.

Yes, the whole EV thing. Everyone is aware that trappers are used to defeat special threats. logically, if a Trapper can trap more threats, it is better. If I need to tweak my EVs a little bit and use another set, it dosen't matter. Because I can eliminate those selected threats. Which is the point of a trapper. The problem with Diglett is that is piss poor weak without Choice Band. It can't trap that much stuff even when tweaking the EVs. Sure, you can avoid taking damage, but a trapper dosen't need to avoid damage. It only needs to, well, trap and kill. If it does it, it has done it's job. Everything else it does are just brownie points. Why should I pick something that is fast, but has the potential to trap 5-7 things, when considering tweaking the EVs, while it can be healthy afterwards, when I can pick something piss poor slow that can trap 20-30 things, when considering tweaking the EVs a little bit, and has took some damage afterwards. I want to kill lots of stuff and not killing only a few things, even when I take no damage.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

Yes, the whole EV thing. Everyone is aware that trappers are used to defeat special threats. logically, if a Trapper can trap more threats, it is better. If I need to tweak my EVs a little bit and use another set, it dosen't matter. Because I can eliminate those selected threats. Which is the point of a trapper. The problem with Diglett is that is piss poor weak without Choice Band. It can't trap that much stuff even when tweaking the EVs. Sure, you can avoid taking damage, but a trapper dosen't need to avoid damage. It only needs to, well, trap and kill. If it does it, it has done it's job. Everything else it does are just brownie points. Why should I pick something that is fast, but has the potential to trap 5-7 things, when considering tweaking the EVs, while it can be healthy afterwards, when I can pick something piss poor slow that can trap 20-30 things, when considering tweaking the EVs a little bit, and has took some damage afterwards. I want to kill lots of stuff and not killing only a few things, even when I take no damage.

Being able to use a trapper more than once is eons more important to me than trapping one threat. I shouldn't have to use it to beat just one pokemon, when a faster one can easily trap 2-3 if played correctly.

For example, my opponent is using a balance team, with Bastiodon and Rampardos

Now, in these situations with both Diglett and Trapinch, here's what happens:

Trapinch
Bastiodon is sent in, you switch/counter lead with Trapinch
Bastiodon, assuming no shitty rolls, goes to sturdy.
Bastiodon does whatever it does (for our sake it toxics to break pinch's sash)
Bastiodon dies next turn.
Rampardos comes in FOR FREE. You obviously can't stay in here.
Rampardos uses Rock polish
RIP

Diglett
Bastiodon is sent in, you switch/counter lead with Diglett
Bastiodon, assuming no shitty rolls, goes to sturdy.
Bastiodon does whatever it does (for our sake it toxics for lack of a better option)
Bastiodon dies.
Rampardos CANNOT come in, and is forced to wait until better set up fodder comes along.
With proper prediction, you get into Diglett v Rampardos before it sets up
RIP Ramp

Obviously Trapinch has advantages in different situations, but Diglett certainly has a niche

 

[scorpdestroyer]

If I were using trappers it would be because my main sweeper needs a specific threat gone. I wouldn't need my trapper to trap multiple things. If for instance I wanted a free path for my Dodrio, I'd simply removing the Rock or Steel-types. Unfortunately that's the only good thing our trappers do but between Diglett and Trapinch I'd much rather choose the latter because it's much more effective at getting the job done when it needs to. Like Platypus said i would only need to identify one key threat stopping my Dodrio and eliminate it. If the opponent's team were somehow running both Bastiodon and Rampardos, I would just kill the Bastiodon because it's much bulkier and difficult to kill / wear down for Dodrio. Idk why you're saying you can't say in with Trapinch vs Rampardos. It's done its job, it doesn't matter if it dies if it prevents Rampardos from setting up. (who the heck sets up Rampardos in front of Trapinch though lol, especially if it's needed to stop a Flying-type) Trapinch > Diglett imo because it can trap more stuff including stuff like Electric-types thanks to not relying on Choice Band too much (Eviolite :]), albeit only once, but a trapper only needs to do its job once most of the time anyway.

 

[WhiteDMist]

Update

So it's been a couple of weeks since this preliminary stage of PU has started, and the discussions have been great for the most part. This thread is just one of the places the PU community discusses the metagame. #pu has been a great place for in-depth discussions as well as for finding battles. Certain people have been extremely notable there as well as in this thread, very good indicators that certain people may make the PU Council. Two people in particular are already on the Council, and I will discuss with the other candidates soon.

It should come as no surprise that Detective Dell is on the Council, as he has led PU for the latter half of Gen 5 (I co-led in the shadows). This gen, he is busy with irl issues, but I am happy to report that not only is he part of the Council, but he is my co-leader and deputy!

TRC is the other member of the Council. He has made great posts in this thread and was intersted in being part of the Council. He has also started a PRELIMINARY Viability Rankings, where several PU players placed the viable/fully evolved Pokemon into rankings. Obviously these rankings are not set in stone, and are easily changed once September starts. For now, I will ignore all talks of whether a Pokemon should be a certain rank or not, as this kind of talk will occur if the PU Viability Rankings thread is given the greenlight to be created (and not before).

Samurott is the only Pokemon in the preliminary S-Rank. Funnily enough, it was a unanimous decision by everyone who participated, as Samurott is simply amazing at what it does. Whether as a sweeper, wallbreaker, revenge killer, or offensive utility mon, Samurott rarely fails to accomplish what it needs to. Both of its most common sets (SD and Special Offensive) are quite powerful and can easily defeat what the other cannot. It is definitely a Pokemon that needs to be prepared for on every PU team.

I notice a bias towards Sticky Web offense as well, as PU has access to several potent setters, the best of which is Kricketune. Water and Grass Pokemon are also pretty high up in the rankings, as they have such potent offensive power. Musharna has been receiving some attention as well, as it is simply amazing at being bulky and pivoting, while still being a decent offensive threat.

Again, these rankings are likely to be completely different when the true thread is posted. Most of what is ranked comes from our experience, though theorymon was necessary for most of the lower ranked Pokemon. The metagame is still in its infancy, so let's keep learning everyone!

 

[skies]

So this metagame is super fun. I had my first battle today w/ Peef Rimgar and kicked his ass won thanks to a double Protect and a Stone Edge miss. One thing I brought out from that battle is Togetic is super bulky, and has a great typing. I used it alongside Carvanha for a NastyPass combo, along with Spikes / TSpikes support, and it performed exceptionally. +2 / +1 Carvanha is scary and it has the moveset to pull it off. I ran Protect / Hydro Pump / Ice Beam / Dark Pulse, but I had considered running Destiny Bond. Will continue my adventures with Carvanha and report back with results o3o.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Haven't seen any talk about this little frog who I have used constantly. Frogadier hits harder than rott for every special move bar water type ones thanks to protean. Another niche over rott is U-turn and it is pretty damn good on volturn teams forming a good amount of synergy with electric types.

Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Hydro Pump
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam

Hydro Pump hits a good amount of mons such as ninetales for a good amount of damage although Ninetales has to be played around since it outspeeds by 3 points at least cm variants do.
252 SpA Life Orb Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rotom-S: 164-192 (68 - 79.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Frogadier Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Bastiodon: 218-260 (67.2 - 80.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
U-turn I already talked about, but it nails eggy just is really nice at pivoting your opponent's team especially when paired with entry hazards.

0- Atk Life Orb Protean Frogadier U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Exeggutor: 192-234 (48.7 - 59.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO not as impressive but still that is defensive eggy so let's see how it does against offensive eggy.
0- Atk Life Orb Protean Frogadier U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor: 281-333 (84.8 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Dark Pulse nails the likes of Mushy really hard even after a CM:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Musharna: 265-312 (60.7 - 71.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 2 layers of Spikes
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Musharna: 174-211 (39.9 - 48.3%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
Ice Beam is also very important and probably hits the most relevant pokes such as Gourgeist:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gourgeist-Super: 359-424 (95.9 - 113.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Frogadier Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Drifblim: 463-549 (104.7 - 124.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
All in all frogadier is a hidden gem in the greatness that is PU, I believe that it is a really really underrated threat and can clean teams extremely good. I really reccomend that you try it at some point just so you can experience how great it is.

 

[Magnemite]

Okay, gonna post some general meta thoughts here.

The most threatening mons in the tier bar-none are all Water-types. Samurott is obvious, the only good answer to physical sets is Poliwrath, which is almost OHKOed by LO Grass Knot from special sets, which are just as threatening (and probably more common tbh). Next are Barbaracle and Carracosta, which are both just about as good as each other, but slightly different. Personally, I like Carracosta better for its access to priority, easier time setting up thanks to Solid Rock, and ability to run special sets and beat all the counters to its physical set (sound familiar?), but Barbaracle has a few advantages, namely much higher Speed and more power thanks to Tough Claws. If there's anything in the current tier that comes close to being suspect worthy, it's these three mons.

Other really good Pokemon in the current meta include Leafeon, Musharna, Sneasel, Scyther, Exeggutor, and Poliwrath. Leafeon is increadibly threatening to offense as it is the fastest common Pokemon in the tier besides Sneasel, Scyther, and I guess Raichu but I haven't really seen any. It's pretty much impossible to switch into for offensive teams unboosted, let alone after an SD, and the great coverage it gets with just Leaf Blade and Knock Off means that it has room to run Substitute or even BP effectively. Additionally, in the sun, it outspeeds the entire tier even with Adamant (though I would still probably run Jolly to tie with opposing Leafeon, as it is actually a pretty big threat to sun itself lol), and is pretty much impossible to deal with without stalling out sun turns. Musharna is also really good. Its bulk just is ridiculous. The only thing I've found that can OHKO it is Choice Band Flareon in the sun; not even LO Sneasel can do over 75% to this thing lol. If you aren't a powerful wallbreaker or have super effective STAB, good luck damaging this thing. Additionally, pretty much anything that can deal major damage to Musharna is crippled by Thunder Wave from the common pivot set, and is promptly Baton Passed out of. CM Mushy is a pretty solid sweeper, though I've only use it for a couple games so I haven't quite seen how good it can actually be. Sneasel is just a solid offensive mon from what I've seen. It's pretty much the fastest mon in the tier, has strong priority to help with stuff like Quiver Dance Lilligant, and is just really solid in general. Scyther is pretty similar, but it's a bit slower (though it's still one of the fastest mons in the tier) and more powerful, but in requires hazard removal to function well, something that isn't exactly the easist thing to provide in this tier. Specs Exeggutor is a complete and total nuke with no switch-ins except for random SpD NFE's like Metang and Zweilous. LO sets are good on sun, just less powerful and a lot faster. Poliwrath is a great glue mon as it checks the Water-types and Sneasel really well (except for GK otter and special costa). (Toxic) Spikes are really good in this tier, with great setters like Garbodor and Roselia and with few mons to remove them. They work really well with all of the strong setup sweepers in the tier especially.

Other mons that are really good but I won't talk about here since if I do this post will be so long that no one will ever read it include Purugly, Lilligant, Tauros, Rotom-F, Dodrio, and Sticky Web teams with Kricketune.

random replays

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150203822
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150233633
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150555482
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150983688
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150624115
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150574018
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150229890
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150986221
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-150627018

 

[atomicllamas]

BS you didn't save the replay of me REKTing you with SHAQtus Magnemite :(

Anyways as you mentioned WhiteDMist, Sticky Web offense does seem pretty popular, but I think that Spike Stacking Offense will probably be just as good as Sticky Web, and it has some pretty underrated Spikers. One Pokemon I have had some fun playing with is SHAQtus, a Cacturne set that became illegal with the banning of Sand Veil last gen, but is now legal due to its unbanning in all tiers.

SHAQturne (Cacturne) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spikes
- Encore
- Seed Bomb
- Sucker Punch

Encore was formerly illegal because it is incompatible with Water Absorb, but it is extremely useful on this set, allowing it to punish Pokemon that think they can set up on Cacturne. This happens a lot due to the fact that people fear its powerful Sucker Punch and aren't expecting Cacturne to be a Spike Stacker. I've also found Taunt NP Misdreavus to be extremely effective in this meta, as it prevents both Spin and Defog while still being extremely threatening with NP and moderately bulky with eviolite.

I think that Hippopotas / Sand could be pretty interesting in this meta, since I think in PU it may be able to get away with running Smooth Rock and still not be complete dead weight, but this is theorymonnning so I'm not sure. Definitely looking forward to playing this tier more :O

 

[EV]

I know most people are excited about Guts or Choice Banded Flareon's Flare Blitz (and even Sun boosted!) but I was thinking about trying a bulky WishBlitz set.

Throw up a Wish. Attack with Flare Blitz and heal yourself back the recoil (plus a little more probably.) Heck even add Double-edge to the equation when Flare Blitz is resisted. Sure, you could attack twice in a row and do more damage, but the idea is to have Wishes floating so if you do have to switch, you'll still benefit the team.

I saw something like it in NU, so I wonder how it might translate down in PU.

 

[Peef Rimgar]

I know most people are excited about Guts or Choice Banded Flareon's Flare Blitz (and even Sun boosted!) but I was thinking about trying a bulky WishBlitz set.

Throw up a Wish. Attack with Flare Blitz and heal yourself back the recoil (plus a little more probably.) Heck even add Double-edge to the equation when Flare Blitz is resisted. Sure, you could attack twice in a row and do more damage, but the idea is to have Wishes floating so if you do have to switch, you'll still benefit the team.

I saw something like it in NU, so I wonder how it might translate down in PU.

Specially defensive Flareon is certainly a thing, so I'm sure a hybrid set could work wonders if played right. Waterspam kinda limits its potential, but I'd like to test it at some point.

 

[trc]

Flareon

Flareon is an interesting Pokemon in that its two roles it carries out are so different from each other. The first are offensive sets that take advantage of Flareon's massive base 130 Attack stat, and newfound Flare Blitz, and often come in two flavours: Choice Band, which works tremendously well in Sun, and Guts Toxic Orb, which lasts significantly less long but has the freedom of changing moves while maintaining impressive power. The Choice Band set can run either of Guts or Flash Fire, Guts is nice for random Toxics but Flash Fire is interesting if you switch into something like another Flareon for example. I generally don't like posting calcs, but here are some common ones of a Choice Band Flareon's Flare Blitz in the Sun:

252+ Atk Choice Band Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle in Sun: 107-126 (37.4 - 44%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Carracosta in Sun: 94-111 (32.4 - 38.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

These are high Defense 4x resists we are talking about here. Even the most common Water-type gets destroyed:

252+ Atk Choice Band Flareon Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Samurott in Sun: 277-327 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I'd also like to point out that Spikes and Sticky Web are very common in this metagame so it's easily plausible to get off these 2HKOes, even though the calcs are merely just an indication of the sets power.

However, Flareon's other set is almost completely different. It is a specially defensive set that fits well on stall teams and is a pretty good check to Sun teams, as they carry various special Grass-types. In BW, SpD Flareon often used Lava Plume to get burns off on switch-ins, decreasing their longevity. However, Flamethrower is a viable option as it has more power, and is more helpful when checking Sun teams. Flareon also has access to Wish which is absolutely amazing when combined with Protect, as a lot of walls in the tier don't have reliable recovery. It even gets Heal Bell for decently performing as a cleric. SpD Flareon fits pretty well on the standard PU stall mold of Poliwrath / Bastoidon / Togetic / Flareon / Roselia / Musharna. As for the interesting hybrid set, it doesn't soon too bad. My main gripe with it is that in a standard game, Flareon would Wish as a check / counter comes in, and then it wouldn't be able to Flare Blitz, though I guess it can pass a Wish to a teammate.

Speed Tiers

I'm going to list some common Speed tiers that may be of value to those trying to modify EV spreads for their Choice Scarfers or setup sweepers.

Adamant Leafeon in Sun = 578 Speed
Modest Lilligant in Sun = 558 Speed
Choice Scarf Adamant Purugly = 484 Speed
Choice Scarf Naughty Tauros = 478 Speed
+2 Adamant Barbaracle = 470 Speed
+1 Modest Lilligant = 418 Speed
Jolly Sneasel = 361 Speed
+2 Naive Carracosta = 358 Speed
Jolly Purugly = 355 Speed
Timid Raichu, Naive Tauros = 350 Speed
+2 Rash Carracosta = 326 Speed

One thing we can assert from this is that Adamant Carracosta misses out on a lot of Pokemon, and I'd run Naive with it myself.

 

[skies]

Carvanha – The Savage Pokemon​

Carvanha is my absolute favorite Pokemon in the entire tier at the moment. Speed Boost is just phenomenal and it has a somewhat high Attack stat with an ok SpA stat (I use NastyPass so this is made up for). Speed Boost is what got my intrigued in the first place, as NastyPass had been flying around up in RU with Sharpedo, so why not try it with its pre-evo? My, I was not let down. +2 SpA / +1 Spe Carvanha is very threatening late game and can clean up weakened teams. Its Hydro Pump leaves a dent on practically everything and Dark Pulse gets great coverage, OHKOing Samurott at +2. Ice Beam gets great coverage too and nothing resists it (if I checked correctly) except for Poliwrath. However, Carvanha has its flaws and the first one is its most important flaw: the WORST defenses in the entire game, literally. It has the lowest Defenses of any Pokemon ever, and it can't take resisted hits at all. Practically all attacks blast over it. Its Speed is lacking pre-Speed Boost as well and without a boost it's not doing that much. It's still a very fun Pokemon that has been the MVP of my team multiple times, definitely recommend it to you to try out! :)

 

[trc]

Togetic NastyPass to Carvanha is interesting, but have you tried Yanma in its place? It has much better defenses, better Special Attack, and can flinch with Air Slash which is pretty nice for bulkier Pokemon that could otherwise wall it. The SR weakness is annoying, but personally I'd trade it for a bit of extra bulk and more power. Carvanha works better though with a Water-type partner, to continue the common WaterSpam theme. Yanma prefers to clean up after the various Grass-types in the tier (which it coincidentally, takes on much more well).

 

[skies]

Togetic NastyPass to Carvanha is interesting, but have you tried Yanma in its place? It has much better defenses, better Special Attack, and can flinch with Air Slash which is pretty nice for bulkier Pokemon that could otherwise wall it. The SR weakness is annoying, but personally I'd trade it for a bit of extra bulk and more power. Carvanha works better though with a Water-type partner, to continue the common WaterSpam theme. Yanma prefers to clean up after the various Grass-types in the tier (which it coincidentally, takes on much more well).

I use it alongside Samurott as a WaterSpam, yes. Yanma is unique, but hazards are such a huge turn off and its bulk isn't even super amazing. Will definitely try it out because I do see some positive traits to both!

 

[Holiday]

Purugly Power

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/nu-153227596

This replay, vs. a good guy cylicCompound, shows how versatile Huntail, Purugly, and SmashPass can be in this tier. The 5-0 is powerful.

 

[trc]

lol "a good guy"

 

[CyclicCompound]

In case anyone's noticed, I'm not so good at the battling-against-smashpass thing. Or maybe it's just the battling thing in general.

A few notes about the Pokemon I used - I tried out Zebstrika because I wanted to see what kind of a check it could be to Shell Smash users, as it can outspeed and hit all of them (except Torkoal) for super effective STAB damage. It didn't really get a lot of action in that battle, although it might've if I wasn't outplayed (I thought Kiba Roserade was going to BP to Marowak). As TRC pointed out, however, Zebstrika only has limited effectiveness against LO Physical Carracosta seeing as +2 Aqua Jet does about 82% minimum.

I'll explain Golduck too - I was expecting to use this team against Magnemite earlier, and hopefully catch him using a Sun Team. I thought it would be interesting to see how Golduck would fare against them, seeing as it can actually OHKO Victreebel, Leafeon, and Exeggutor with Life Orb Ice Beam, and nullify their Chlorophyll boosts (as well as their instant Solar Beam) with Cloud Nine. Unfortunately, it looks like a very subpar Pokemon outside of that role, being largely outclassed by Samurott and clearly being relegated to death fodder in my match against Kiba Roserade.

Finally, I know this has been said many times over, but I just want to re-stress how great of a matchup Sneasel has with the rest of the tier. Just looking at Team Preview, with its moveset of Knock Off / Ice Punch / Ice Shard / Low Kick, it could hit 5/6ths of Kiba's team super effectively, and outsped all of them except for the other Sneasel.

 

[Yellow Cheese]

One poke Ive liked using is subcm Golduck. I used this thing all the time last gen, and it can be quite threatening. Fuck rott . Basculin is also pretty good as a bander. Outside of water types I see lilligant as a massive treath.
Btw what do you guys think about LC ubers we have in the tier?​

 

[Snaquaza]

I just had a match with Seismitoad using my first team for PU this generation.

I used Choice Scarf Magmar which did incredible in this match. With a good 100 Special Attack it hits fairly hard and +1 base 93 outspeeds like the entire relevant Metagame. It only struggles a bit with Water Spam, but other than that it does really well. As its movepool is a little bit lacking (in my opinion) I use Fire Blast as a strong STAB and Focus Blast as coverage. Other than that I use Will-o-Wisp as a last resort against physical mons and Clear Smog for Set-Up sweepers, although I've never used the latter. And while it's quite frail and weak to the Top Pokemon in the tier, it can be really good if you need something to take care of Grass types, Sneasel and need some safety net against sweepers.

 

[Ranger Mike]

Confirming that scarf magmar is a bitch, really confused me but you might wanna run timid so that frogadier doesnt outspeed you with webs up i guess.

 

[Snaquaza]

Confirming that scarf magmar is a bitch, really confused me but you might wanna run timid so that frogadier doesnt outspeed you with webs up i guess.

I run Timid but Magmar has 93 Speed and Frogadier 97, so unless Frog runs Modest. It'll outspeed.