Mega stones also invalidate trick and knock off. Trick is especially destroyed by them since they're locked into one move and usually don't want to be (especially Trick).
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
Yyeah to be honest and no offense, I didn't ask for your opinion. sorry.
And I was addressing the opposite opinion of yours, which is probably also unpopular in its own way. It wasn't a response specifically directed at you (I did use the "you" pronoun but that could also be taken as me telling the post reader this), I just used your post as a springboard.
No one asked for yours before your initial post, either.
The idea that an opinion has to be asked for to be warranted is laughable.
Edit: Just got this message from this guy on my profile: "You will be blocked for harassment. I didn't ask for your opinion. Deal with it. Have a nice day."
You mad brah?
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While it is an unpopular opinion being posted on an unpopular opinion thread, posting opinions on this thread leaves them up for discussion whether agreement or (in this guy's case) vast disagreement. If we didn't have discussion, this thread would get WAY too stale too quickly.
But yeah, while Knock Off and Trick can be effective, they aren't really OP. It might suck for my Sylveon to lose his Leftovers or my Goodra to lose his Assault Vest, but neither are out of the battle.
Soo uh, shall we get this back on topic?
*ehem* imo Chikorita is the best gen 2 starter and popularity polls are rigged until proven otherwise (joke). Oh, you're having trouble with Milktank? Why don't you just use Reflect, Poison Powder, and Synthesis? What, you chose Cyndaquil? Well shoot, that's just too bad haha.
*ehem* imo Chikorita is the best gen 2 starter and popularity polls are rigged until proven otherwise (joke). Oh, you're having trouble with Milktank? Why don't you just use Reflect, Poison Powder, and Synthesis? What, you chose Cyndaquil? Well shoot, that's just too bad haha.
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And if you watch TeamFourStars HG playthrough you know their Chikorita, Mr. Stake, pulls his weight (whether the crew wants to admit it or not). MISTERRRRR STAKE!
Of course a Pokemon being good in the main game has never been the problem, its post and meta game where flaws of some Pokemon start sticking out and that hindsight can really paint opinions. I wouldn't be surprised those who liked Chikorita back in the day had their opinions change if they got into the metagame and heard how it doesn't do well compared to the other starters.
But I will always choose Cyndaquil, Fire-types fore life. By the time I face Whitney my Cyndaquil is a Quilava so I just set her Miltank on fire until it locks itself into Rollout (and if it gets Burned that halves Attack). More annoying in the remakes as it doesn't have Rollout so its always up to healing, but eventually it wears down.
Meganium was apparently the most OU-viable starter in Gen 2, so there's that.
Beating Whitney is cool and all, but the rest of the region is not kind to Grass-types and the other starters preform much, much better in the long-term. Cyndaquil also kind of destroys the early game, so it coming out victorious against Whitney isn't out of the question if you've been feeding it experience. (Plus the remakes let you buy Fire Blast as soon as you hit Goldenrod.)
Beating Whitney is cool and all, but the rest of the region is not kind to Grass-types and the other starters preform much, much better in the long-term. Cyndaquil also kind of destroys the early game, so it coming out victorious against Whitney isn't out of the question if you've been feeding it experience. (Plus the remakes let you buy Fire Blast as soon as you hit Goldenrod.)
H u s h. You know nothing, Jon Snow.
For real though, I doubt Chikorita's unpopularity has anything to do with its performance, competitively speaking. Totodile is popular because it is a freaking feraligator and so has the 'badass' factor going on, but Cyndaquil eclipses them both because duh, the fire-type bias is too strong. Grass types are unpopular at large since gen1. I mean, who hasn't seen this joke yet? Bulbasaur for one is basically a meme at this point.
Then we get stuff like Turtwig ( do people even remember it exists? ) and despite Snivy's evolutionary line [read: Serperior] being the coolest thing ever, the game stilll takes a massive dump on it due to poor type match-up from the ground up, as per the norm. There's Treecko, but if only Blaziken didn't exist... Oh right, there's also Chespin but.... uh... yeah....
With Sun and Moon's starters I really thought that for once the grass-type starter would finally have a chance at winning the Starters War. I really, really did. But then everything changed, when the fire nation attacked.
I am bummed.
On the other hand, I've found Chikorita very useful in the other region - it rocks at least half of Kanto's gyms and it's overall performance there I found pretty solid. Still not amazing, but solid.
Then I'll gladly put fuel on this with my PoV of these so-called "Unpopular" Opinions - IMO the Grass-type starter of each gen bar the second one (Though Chikorita's line is still fine) has the best design. It's kind of aided by most of them being reptilian/dinosaurian (Chespin is nice, but mostly wins because Froakie is meh and Fennekin is disgusting), Charmander exists in Gen I, and in Gen III there is really tough competition overall, but still.
Funny, considering Grass is not my favourite type (That would go to Flying...)
I love big maze-like forests, caves, and mountains. Everything about big caves, mountains, and even forests just adds to the excitement: the trip to the mart to stock up on items for the trip, that last stop at the pokemon center; if the cave/mountain is later in the game, that final Leppa-berry harvest because apparently Ethers are illegal in pokemon regions (why else wouldn't they be purchasable in marts?).
While there were some things I didn't like about Gen IV, one of the things I did enjoy was Mt. Coronet; especially the snowy portion of it. Eterna Forest was way better than the forests in most other games; it appeared slightly later on, but not so much later that fully-evolved Butterfree+Beedrill clones stopped being moderately powerful to fight.
I actually enjoyed the Rock Climb HM. Really helped bring the caves into the third dimension. Note that I only liked the overworldly design of Rock Climb. As for the HM move itself, I hated it. Seriously? We already have TWO normal-type HMs. Do we seriously need another one? And one with annoyingly poor distribution for an HM move. Arrgh, why did they have to make it normal-type? Why not make it a rock-type move (with a nerf in power, of course)? If it were a rock type move, the accuracy wouldn't even be an issue; it'd fit right in with Rock Slide and Stone Miss. Back in Gen IV when TMs were single-use, it would've been really awesome to have a reusable rock-type move.
How do you even use Rock Climb on another pokemon? Like do you try to run up and climb on their face or something?
While there were some things I didn't like about Gen IV, one of the things I did enjoy was Mt. Coronet; especially the snowy portion of it. Eterna Forest was way better than the forests in most other games; it appeared slightly later on, but not so much later that fully-evolved Butterfree+Beedrill clones stopped being moderately powerful to fight.
I actually enjoyed the Rock Climb HM. Really helped bring the caves into the third dimension. Note that I only liked the overworldly design of Rock Climb. As for the HM move itself, I hated it. Seriously? We already have TWO normal-type HMs. Do we seriously need another one? And one with annoyingly poor distribution for an HM move. Arrgh, why did they have to make it normal-type? Why not make it a rock-type move (with a nerf in power, of course)? If it were a rock type move, the accuracy wouldn't even be an issue; it'd fit right in with Rock Slide and Stone Miss. Back in Gen IV when TMs were single-use, it would've been really awesome to have a reusable rock-type move.
How do you even use Rock Climb on another pokemon? Like do you try to run up and climb on their face or something?
X Pokemon basically creates a mountain, but instead of attacking the opponent with it; you climb it. It doesn't really make much sense if you ask me.
Also, I agree with you. However, the one and only problem I ( and many other people I'm sure) have with caverns is that they'll spam a battle like every 10 seconds no matter where you're at. If caverns had something like the tall grass—pre-defined tiles where pokemon might or might not pop up—they would be much more bearable. Also, the snowy route to the north of Mt. Coronet is my favourite too. Many people I know don't like it, though.
Btw kind of off-topic but... is Rock Climb even a relevant HM? Or is it like Whirlpool? 'Cause I don't remember using it anywhere. Granted, it's been a long time since I've played DPP.
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It's used on Tauros because of Sheer Force. I've heard that Tauros is a major player in NU; think it was almost banned at one point.
If they ever do remakes of the gen IV games, Defog will become the best HM move of all time. I seem to recall Defog and Rapid Spin making Smogon's list of the top 10 moves (think it was in an episode of The Smog), so that would be pretty cool.
Edit: And yes, I 100% agree with your sentiments about the encounter rate in caves. The cave encounter rate is too high when you're trying to get someplace, but too low when you're actually looking for cave 'mons. They should do something like the light and dark sand in the desert route in BW, where the "encounter" tiles have the same encounter rate as grass so you can find pokes when you want to but aren't pestered when you want to get through.
Also, Repel needs to be cheaper and be available earlier on. Actually, they should just give you a "pokemon sonic repelling device" or something that you turn on when you want to avoid encounters. I don't see why you should have to pay for repels just to not get pestered.
At least Rock Climb was actually useful as an HM, not like the criminally underused Whirlpool and Defog...
I mean, fine, Whirlpool and (then) Defog were horrible moves... but they took up an HM slot even though you had, how many? TWO places in the whole game where you had to use them? And this is without saying that Defog was completely optional. Rock Smash is also a terrible move but it at least was a common move to use, and it has its in-game advantages.
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Honestly I wish they'd pick moves that are at least competitively useable for HMs. Right now, some HMs are so terrible that you're basically forced to use an HM slave. In my opinion, HMs should be moves that are not the best of their kind, but are widely-distributed. Brick Break would be a perfect HM, for example. As far as Fighting-type moves go, it's considered the low-rent option, but it's just powerful enough for a poke to use if it doesn't learn anything better. It has really wide distribution, which is important for an HM move, so as not to limit in-game team-building too much.
They could do something similar for the other HMs as well. Cut could easily be replaced with Night Slash (assuming they gave Night Slash TM-level distribution) or Shadow Claw. Like Brick Break, those moves are fairly weak, but still strong enough to use if your physical attacker lacks anything better for that type of coverage. While we're at it, Strength could be replaced with Rock Slide (get it? Because you're SLIDING boulders around? huehuehue). Also, Sky Drop is everything that Fly should have been right from the start. It's not that powerful, but highly useful strategically. Put it on a bulky toxic-staller mon.
If Game Freak did this, it would actually be a fun challenge to try and design an "ultimate in-game team" that gets away with having no HM slave, because it's actually feasible to work the HMs onto a pokemon's in-battle moveset without ruining it.
And yes, I totally agree with you about one-time use HMs. In the newer games, they've started making Flash, Rock Smash, etc. into TMs. Honestly why don't they just do that with all the HMs? I mean TMs are reusable; if you forget the HM and then get "stuck", you can just use the TM to re-teach the move to your poke!
It has some occasional uses. Like on Victory Road iirc.X Pokemon basically creates a mountain, but instead of attacking the opponent with it; you climb it. It doesn't really make much sense if you ask me.
Also, I agree with you. However, the one and only problem I ( and many other people I'm sure) have with caverns is that they'll spam a battle like every 10 seconds no matter where you're at. If caverns had something like the tall grass—pre-defined tiles where pokemon might or might not pop up—they would be much more bearable. Also, the snowy route to the north of Mt. Coronet is my favourite too. Many people I know don't like it, though.
Btw kind of off-topic but... is Rock Climb even a relevant HM? Or is it like Whirlpool? 'Cause I don't remember using it anywhere. Granted, it's been a long time since I've played DPP.
Because HM use outside of battles are restricted by the badges, thus making a clear-cut path through the progression of the game. If all field-based moves were TMs, getting a Pokemon with such moves through a trade would give you free reign over the whole game from the very beginning. That may not necessarily be a bad thing to some, but it would make the game's level curve essentially impossible to balance.
That's the thing, though. Because HM moves are restricted by the badges, you can't use them until you get the right badge, even if you trade for a poke that knows an HM earlier than you'd get it otherwise. So even if a pokemon learns Brick Break (which replaces Rock Smash) before you'd get the TM/HM for it, you couldn't smash rocks until you have the Rock Smashin' badge, so you wouldn't be able to get too far ahead of the plot-line.
If they were HMs, then yeah. But if all the field moves were TMs, then that's where it could pose an issue. Though having all HMs be strong, viable moves also raises the possible issue of difficulty balance in the earlier stages of the game. An early Rock Slide, for example, would basically trivialize all early game flying and bug types, which are very common early-game types.
Basically, the problem with HMs isn't so much the moves themselves, but the fact that they cannot be deleted/overwritten without aid of the move deleter. Granted, this was a valid check to prevent players from getting stuck in the earlier games by deleting HM moves (especially in RBY where you could deposit HMs in the PC), but it's pretty much a relic of a bygone era at this point. The games would be better off if there were more options to removing HM moves from a Pokemon while still being able to use the field effect, or take the B/W route where they are essentially not required to beat the main story (but may be needed to explore some optional areas)
I liked the idea of Mt. Coronet. A mountain in the center of the region which you need to traverse through multiple times, often revisiting paths you've been on but now able to access a new branch of the path. And then to stop the villains you need to climb up for the penultimate showdown. Sadly Mt. Coronet gets slack because of the HM problem, to climb it you need a few HM moves so either have a dedicated HM slave (aka Bibarel) or waste a move slot on some of your Pokemon.
Hmm, I can't really think of any standout forests which impressed me but I can think of two other mountains: Twist Mountain. Normally with a mountain you gotta travel through it, but since Twist Mountain has a valley in the center you instead need to travel all around it in a circle. Its a neat idea, especially when you combine it with needing to go outside of the cave and travel along wooden platforms hanging over the center valley. OR if you played during Winter you can bypass large sections and access areas you normally couldn't get to! I also There's also been a few fun caves like Chargestone, Glittering, and Reflection due to their aesthetics. I also liked the idea Diglett's Cave, though I have to give it to BW2 for their huge cave network which connects Castelia Sewers, Relic Passage, Relic Castle, Pokemon World Tournament, Clay Tunnel, Mistralton Cave, and Twist Mountain. It's like they heard the complaints about BW's path being linear and went "Oh, really? Fine, in BW2 you can have all sorts of side places to go and in the main story need to jump all over the map. What do you think of that"!
And we done this Unpopular Opinion yet: I like HMs. Yeah, you heard me. I LIKE the HMs. And I like the selection of HMs they gave us even though half of them are Water-type. Now I'm not crazy, the HMs main problem is you can't delete them and a few of them are rather weak (which wouldn't be a problem if you could delete them). But I like the idea of needing to solve natural obstacles in your path with using your Pokemon's skills, showing that as long as you're together you and your Pokemon can overcome any challenge be them a battle or natural barriers. This is also why I like the Trick House, sadly HMs for the most part are a one and done thing so having an extra area require you to use them again is welcomed. Though at the same time I still feel they could do more with HMs, not only with possibly new ones but explore what you could do with the existing ones. Like imagine while Surfing you found a rock blocking a waterway, you use Rock Smash to break it and suddenly the water level rises giving you access to new areas! Or using Strength and Rock Smash to do weight puzzles. Using Strength to force doors open or Cut to cut a circuit. Defog could certainly blow away more than fog. And think about the uses for these HMs while underwater using Dive! There's a lot of potential for HMs, which why I'm sort of sad they might be going in Gen VII but at the same time the PokeRide look pretty cool (though I'm hoping there would be someway to make some of our Pokemon into PokeRides? Probably not, though it does take away a bit of the bonding idea when you're clearing an obstacle with a Pokemon that isn't yours).
You know how egg moves in Gen VI are stored separately in a Pokemon's data file, thus allowing egg moves to be relearned alongside level up moves? Why couldn't they do that for HMs while making them as easily deletable as any other move? What I mean is, when you teach an HM to a Pokemon, it's added both into your current moveset as well as a seperate flag of data for overworld use. So if you later overwrite the move, the Pokemon forgets the move for battle, but still will be capable of using the move in the field. It honestly would make better sense this way, seeing as how most HM moves aren't so much specific battle techniques as much as they are basic actions that Pokemon can do such as flying or cutting wood/grass.