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Until The End- The Swordsman and the Dragon

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Stone RG, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    346


    Well, lets face it guys: we're barely a month away from X and Y, and what was probably the last suspect of this generation is done, only the voting is left. So, this is my way of saying good bye to a metagame were i knew what i was doing, i have seen how the community has developed, from discussing genesect's ban because we wanted free points, to arguments about about actually discussible points, namely lando and keldeo.

    I wasnt into competitive pokemon until late BW and i abused the crap out of Deoxys S the only week it was available for me, however ive lived every stage of the BW 2 metagame, bar the lando suspect test era, where i took a hiatus from battling for about 5 months, and from which i have recently come back.

    Well, since Round 6 of the Suspect, i havent been able to build a decent team w/o arguably my favorite pokemon of this generation: keldeo. Im pretty sure im not lying when i say i was one of the first to use keldeo succesfully in the ladder, damn that sounded cocky.

    So, until the end, im staying with my pony, im using this RMT also as a symbol of the fact that im ready to let go of him, since im not sure of what the results of the suspects are going to be, on the meanwhile, however, im using my all-time favorite pokemon: garchomp. I got to top 40 in PS pretty much today under the alt ADVshipping, i know that isnt really impressive, but i got bored of the PS ladder, not to mention that this internet isnt the best, so i dont think i can get to #1 in less than 3 battles, and im lazy. THis team isnt really viable in PO (im sorry but seriously, the PS ladder blows my mind sometimes) due to lando, not to mention i havent been able to go into PO for about 2 weeks to get some decent laddering record there.

    Well, im rambling too much, Without further ado, im saying good bye to Unova with my last OU team of the fifth generation:

    Until the End- The Swordsman and The Dragon:
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Teambuilding process:

    Well, about a month ago i wanted to make a Garchomp sand team, since he is my favorite poke and i hadnt really tried to base a team around him for the entirety of his stay in OU. Since im generally a player that goes all out on offense, i decided to keep my SashTar, a set Lil and me had tried out and succeeded a little before i took my hiatus. As i said, i have been pretty much incapable of building something succesful without keld after Suspect Round 6, so i didnt bother trying to change this dependence, good ol' scarf keldeo was always there to save the day.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Well, i realized that if i was running SashTar, then this was inevitably Hyper Offense, i guess thats just me, but when youre running a Sash pokemon that isnt named alakazam, its impossible not to make it pure offense. Therefore i just slapped 3 offensive mons: Lucario, RP lando and max speed rotom. After slapping those 3 i decided to make Chomp a mix Dmeteor set.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Guys, i was just coming back, so cut me some slack, will you? :[ Oh well, you might realize that this team might have some problems, for example the fact that i had absolutely no defensive backbone and most of my pokemon couldnt take on the 108 speed tier. What i want to say is: any well played offensive mon raped me.

    So, i just then decided to change everything: ttar was turned to a specially defensive lum berry set, that lured in scizor sorta well, and could actually take on jelli and the lati twins; rotom w to a specially defensive version as a rain backbone (and is actually the only one who hasnt changed his set or purpose since then); scarfrachi was chosen as being generally more bulky thann pony and i wanted to try out new stuff, namely healing wish; im not a fan of dual scarfers, and since i didnt ever try out any non-choice set for keldeo, i decided to give the ebelt set a chance; lando was switched to the uturn version simply for momentum and it still had a good damage output; finally chomp took up the rocks duty for ttar as he was running 4 attacks, so then my dragon was an sd rocks chomp.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Welp, we now reach the final stage of the team; i wasnt really comfortable with this version even though it did just fine in general, key word, just fine. So i wanted to improve it, and either way, lando was banned around the time i did this reasoning, so the team was switched to much bulkier variant. Scarf rachi showed to me that it is incapable of flinching anybody, so, even though the logic seems stupid, i took it out for some time, well, not really.

    Landorus-I had to be taken out for his counterpart, lando-t, who gave me an automatic response to almost every physical attacker in the tier, and, with rotom w, i already knew the volt turn sheananigans they could pull off while being able to wall each others weaknesses for the most part. As a result, chomp, didnt have to be the one running rocks, so i didnt know what to do with him, so i tried a really cool set: SD sash Fire Blast chomp, i didnt really think most people will ever expect those 3 on the same set, and helped me a lot as matter fact when helping scarf keldeo, who made his return after scarf rachi was ditched. And well, scarf keldeo meant band ttar.

    Remember when i said rachi didnt actually go out of the team? Welp, as the team had turned towards an scarf keld sweep, i ended up using superachi, something Lil had been telling me to use for about a month cuz he has orgasms with jirachi's versatility; sexual connotations aside, psychic > Toxicroak.
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    So here we are, at the last step in my teambulding process, which consisted of one simple change: Lum berry for Sash on chomp. I was simply tired to hell of rotom w, not to mention that, even though chomp is Naive, it still takes a lot of hits w/o needing the sash. Lum has been in general more helpful due to Outrage, and it roaringly fucks on stall teams.

    The Team:

    Note 1: (taking Oh Captain's words) This team requires prediction and a structured game plan during team preview to play properly.
    Note 2: Even though this is the last team i got for this generation, for the sake of completeness, im taking every possible suggestion you guys can give me and testing it as long as the pros outweigh the cons in theory.


    [​IMG]
    tar (Tyranitar) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 164 HP / 252 Atk / 92 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower
    - Stone Edge


    EVs/Moveset/Role Explanation:

    Im a sand guy, im also an offensive guy, i dont like scarftar because it tends to be weak and i have an scarf keldeo in the team, so, do i need to explain more? I guess i do.

    Tyranitar's initial role is to disrupt other's weathers, considering the team is basically weatherless bulky offense, i tend to have a problem with weather abusers, so here he is to sacrifice himself when venusaur gets out of control and tales is dead. Due its sheer strength it can pull through anything not named forretress/specially defensive skarm, who is, by the way, the reason for the speed bump in the EVs. Last but definetely not least it traps stuff, ninetales, offensive politoed, hell even the defensive variant, and, most importantly, the lati twins, jellicent, celebi, and, on certain occasions, specially defensive amoonguss for keldeo's comfort.

    Note: Ttar CANNOT switch into latios under any circumstance unless its under draco meteor's side effect, even scarf latios can 2hko after rocks damage. Jellicent can always predict the switch to ttar, but it CAN be switched to.

    Possible Changes: EV spread to a bulkier one, that still outspeeds jellicent.
    [​IMG]
    rotom (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SDef
    Calm Nature

    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Thunder Wave
    - Pain Split

    EVs/Moveset/Role Explanation:


    I cant believe i actually tried out max speed rotom wash at some point, as a matter fact, i cant believe i went all through BW 1 without using specially defensive rotom w.

    Part 1 of my defensive core, unless youre counting in ttar of course, and landorus's partner in crime, and annoying the crap out of the opposition, between the two they have almost the entire offensive part of the meta pressured. The 56 Def EVs give me a much better chance of living through keldeo's dual secret sword. This guy specifically acts as the special backbone for my team, and the rain counter. People might say im incredibly overreliant on rotom to take on rain, and they will be right, but that is where this team needs to be played on a well more offensive side.

    Shurt suggested Twave and i have to say after trying it out, it did seem more helpful than Will-o-Wisp in the long run, seeing as how now i actually have a lure for venusaur and the lati twins, theorically talking.

    So, besides the possible change between WoW and Twave, dont touch my (sc)rotom, not even the SpAtk EVs.

    Possible Changes: None, dont touch my rotom, at least, not anymore.

    [​IMG]
    lando (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 64 Spd / 212 Def / 200 HP / 32 Atk
    Lax Nature
    - Earthquake
    -
    U-turn
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    EVs/Moveset/Role Explanation:

    Part 2 of the defensive core which i already explained. Landorus's role is mainly a pivot and momentum gainer that can switch easily between physical attackers, and my only garchomp answer, which, as you may have noticed, takes a shit on the majority of my team.

    The defensive part of the EVs are directed to counter all versions of Terrakion, and the Speed EVs are used for the bump on Adamant Breloom, and HP Ice takes care easily of most dragons and the aforementioned Breloom. Overall i dont think i would switch Landorus's spread in any way, as it takes a huge part in handling the majority of this team's weaknesses.


    Possible Changes: EVs to outrun Max speed Tyranitar

    [​IMG]
    rachi (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 56 HP/ 200 Spd
    Modest Nature
    -
    Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Grass Knot

    EVs/Moveset/Role Explanation:

    Part 1 of my offensive core, and the ''gimmick'' i prepared when facing the meta, this thing does so much damage against almost every team its not even funny. When people go into Ferro thinking they can set up on my face to get crapped over by HP fire, or when tenta in a similar situation. Hell, who cares about landorus t? Hippowdon? Scizor?

    Tecnically, this is a lure, so it should be played aggresively, but dont make it obvious, as something like automatically switching into ferro will alert a good opponent of possible fire type moves, you can use this to your advantage as well, but it is only advisable in the higher stages of the ladder.

    The moveset gives me an almost complete coverage on the meta with the exception of heatran and the blobs, only the former being worrysome to me, but as long as rotom is there to help, everything should be alright.

    Possible Changes: Icy Wind > Grass Knot

    [​IMG]
    chomp (Garchomp) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Rough Skin
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    -
    Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw/Outrage
    -
    Fire Blast

    EVs/Moveset/Role Explanation:

    Part 2 of the offensive core, and probably the most important member along with kelde. This set acts as my lead on the large majority of the time, and takes on almost everything the meta can throw at me, it isnt really weird for chomp to gain 2-3 kills a game. In stall teams, this set is a win condition, and should be preserved always as a late game sweeper.

    Apart from being the lead against most offense, sort of luring rotom w and easily weakening opposing lando t and rain teams for jirachi and keldeo's comfort, garchomp is a win condition on almost every game, since, with the exception of keldeo and sort of alakazam, every other faster threat is covered by the other team members.


    The choice between Dragon Claw and Outrage is highly personal preference between reliableness, and raw power and the fact that lum wont be a wasted item in very little some matches, thanks to Oh Captain for pointing this out. Its a 50/50, there are various times were you will need Outrage (ex: KOing tornadus on the switch, dnite after sand damage) or sometimes where you will hate it.

    Note: Any team with a Breloom should be handled by using chomp as a lead.

    Possible Changes: Rocky Helmet over Lum (Dragon Claw must be used for this). In testing process.

    [​IMG]
    keld (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf

    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]


    EVs/Moveset/Role Explanation:

    Ladies and Gentleman, my long time companion, and leader of the offensive core, is here. Ready to leave the OU environment to be a little fish in the giant sea that is Ubers, he takes the role of my game-ender the 80% of the time. He's pretty much half of the reason tyranitar is in the team,not the other way around. Hell, ill let rain win the weather war sometimes just to let keldeo sweep easier.

    The moveset is self explanatory, everybody should know it by now, the two first moves are generally the late game weapons unless secret sword shows to be enough or necessary to end it, and ive even swept with hp ice. Not really much to say here. Just that, Keldeo, if youre indeed gone when the voting ends, im ready to leave you for better life.

    Possible Changes: None

    Handling Common Playstyles:
    Rain Offense/Balance[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Contrary to what im expecting to be popular belief, unless this team is running a scarf tornadus, then keldeo has a field day in late game. Rotom is vital here, since often, rain is more helpful for me in this match-up, causing ttar to be deadweight, but if its completely unnecesary, then giving it something to weaken enough for keldeo to sweep is the best bet rather than plain out sacking it.
    Keldeo/Jirachi/Rotom

    Rain Stall:[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Does this even exist anymore? Havent faced it in the ladder, but i guess rachi and chomp have it easy once therir respective counters are weakened, chomp would be the main win condition though, and winning the weather war would be vital.
    Garchomp/Jirachi/Rotom

    Sun Offense: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Kill or be killed, you MUST win the weather war, fortunately, chomp takes a crap on this type of team. Landorus can play mindgames on dugtrio and ninetales, forcing them to go into xatu.
    Tyranitar/Garchomp/Landorus (once sun is down)

    Sand Offense/Balance: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Jirachi takes out so many shit here its not even funny, lati twins MUST be taken down by tyranitar or else im swept, as you may have noticed i have no real answers for Latias, keldeo has a field day once they're gone. It is a mayor threat as well if they're running him, so keep rotom for pony. Lando is necessary to take mayor hits.
    keldeo/Tyranitar/Jirachi

    Sand Stall: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Kill the Heatran, rachi wins; weaken the Hippowdon, chomp wins. Since most ammonguss are sp defensive, ttar can also trap them theorically, then, keldeo becomes a mayor threat. Rotom is stupidly annoying for this type of teams.
    Rotom/Garchomp/Jirachi

    Weatherless Offense: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Landorus is important to take most of the hits, get rocks as quickly as possible; chomp generally can get 1-2 kills at early game. Keldeo is the win condition at end game.
    Keldeo/Landorus/Garchomp

    DragSpam: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    I cannot stress this enough: LANDORUS AND KELDEO, im serious, rocks are the most important factor here, as well as getting rid of the lati@s; tyranitar, being the bulky motherfucker he is, will do some mayor damage if kyubee is incapable of koing it later on as well. Garchomp does work if Lati@s are gone as well. So: get rid of the lati twins, now. If this team is well played, it can be considered my hardest match up.
    Landorus/Keldeo/Tyranitar

    Hyper Offense: [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    My hardest match up arguably, since a good player is needed for DragSpam to be considered a mayor threat. Turn 1 send in Lando to uturn on skarm, then keldeo finishes the job, here its a good way to measure your opponent's skill level. Keldeo is a mayor problem, ttar is almost useless here, and my own keldeo holds great importance for the dragons. Jirachi sweeps this team to hell and back if chomp is dead. One misplay on either player's part means game often.
    Landorus/Jirachi/Keldeo

    CONCLUSION:
    I have evolved as a player and i have seen the meta do the same during this year, it has been an entertaining experience during the OU metagame, but i guess now that i know that i can call myself a ''decent'' player, imma take on other tiers, namely ubers and UU, so if someone wants to teach me, please? :]

    I guess i should say that this isnt exactly my last OU team, since i still got the team for the ou suspect, so i guess i will rmt that if the voting goes against my partner.

    But i guess, for now, farewell Unova, and welcome Kalos.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  2. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    651
    I cannot believe we made a team december 2012 and still don't RMT it, but you did this team less than a month ago and it took you less than a day to finish it up instead of doing your E.E. Nice work dude, I like the team. Still, I think that the Hydra one we made is better now that Lando-I got banned from PO.

    Did you stop screaming? Good.

    Where are my shoutouts? Superachi. I introduced it to you fgt. I want my shoutout.

    Will rate this team later on. Congrats. :]
  3. Oh Captain

    Oh Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2012
    Messages:
    58
    Well I can respect that this team is finished in your eyes, and rightfully so. I like the superrachi and my only suggestion is dragon claw over outrage on chomp to better handle stall teams, since they cannot bait the outrage. And with his coverage itll be a shit storm for someone who tries to bait it. Also the rest of the team supports him well enough in handling the bulky waters anyway thanks to rotom and to some degree Rachi + ttar help with that.
    Solid team :]

    Edit: also Nice quote, its the truth though, its sad how some people forget that the person who made the team generally forms his or her own plans when playing.
  4. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    You said you were on a haiatus? Could've fooled me. This is so solid there isn't anything really to fix. I mean, Venu and things look annoying but I know you as a player this team has all the tools it needs to get past most flaws.

    Just a quick question: do you really use Fire Blast a lot with Chomp? Because you could easily make it SubSalac if you don't. Jirachi and LandoT take care of Scizor imo and you could wreck more with a Sub at hand and you wouldn't need Lum anymore. Thunder Wave > WoW on Rotom-W makes Venu + Lati@s easier to play around since Rotom-W lures them in 24/7.

    Also, how much do you really need Grass Knot on Jirachi? You could opt for Icy Wind instead imo.


    I love the team!
  5. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    346
    i said you asked me to do a team with it, cuz you have orgasms with its versatility, i call that a shoutout :]
    And yea, just stopped screaming, fu** lando i.

    Thanks for your thought cap, actually, ive been alternating between dclaw and outrage b4 i stopped playing with this team, and youre pretty much right in that dclaw is generally better, but me being the risky player i am pushed me to put outrage, but im changing that right now. Dragon Claw is the superior option.


    Lololol, i guess i am back to my former self. Twave on rotom is the only thing i never thought about strangely, and the only thing worth testing in rotom imo. As for the Lum or Salac, thing is, Fire Blast lets me play around ferro a lot more easily since rachi cant OHKO without a prior boost, and i cant set up on him. Icy wind over Grass knot seems cool, but between psychic and grass knot, rachi supports chomp at annhilating its counters. Thanks for the r8 shurty :]


    P.D. as you may have noticed, i said id test twave on rotom, thats because for the sake of completeness, i i want to end this team as great as possible, so feel free to point out changes you may see to help the team :]
    Shurtugal likes this.
  6. Subject 18

    Subject 18 Peace.
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Moderator

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    As you requested, I'm here to rate your team. Frankly I don't have much to suggest for you since the team is really solid as it is now. Like Shurtugal mentioned Venusaur can be a bit annoying to play against but this not something you are particularly weak to and in general you should be able to deal with it.

    I would suggest trying the 200 Spd / 252 SAtk / 56 HP for Jirachi for some added bulk to take a couple hits while retaining speed to beat out everything up to standard Kyurem-Black. Grass knot is honestly fine for Jirachi but Icy Wind does have its benefits. It depends on you though whether or not you mind losing some hitting power on Hippowdon but gaining the ability to hit Latios.

    I would also change OutRage to Dragon Claw like other mentioned above me.

    I know its not much but the team is really strong as it is and too much changing isn't really need. However I hope this helped even just a little bit. Good luck in the future with the team.
  7. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

    Joined:
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    Imma try out that spread, since, as i said, im trying out everything you guys suggest. Icy wind has showed to be very benefitial when playing against the lati twins and is a massive **** you to any chomp switching into rachi, but i despise hippowdon to death now that i decided to run twave over WoW on rotom, so it is something ill think about. Thanks for the rate! :]
  8. LilOuOn

    LilOuOn

    Joined:
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    I'll stay with Grass Knot, I've been using that team yesterday and got 1500 on PO with T-Wave on Rotom. With it, you already take care of Latios and Latias, as both of them are common switch-ins against Rotom-W. Talking about Garchomp, I had 0 problems with it, so, as I said before, keeping Grass Knot on Rachi works better to OHKO Gastrodon, Seismitoed, and the rare Swampert, easying Keldeo's sweep.
    Shurtugal likes this.
  9. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

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    Welp, after a week of testing, i decided to move the 56 SpA EVs on rotom to defesne since im tired of keldeo scoring a 2hko after rocks, the 56 HP EVs are now to stay on rachi, and outrage is slashed as a (barely) second slot for Dragin Claw, also, since in PO eveyone and their mothers is spamming HO, ive written the way to deal with the playstyle. Rocky Helmet on chomp is currently under test, ill update it when i have time and laddering experience with it.
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.

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    You forgot TWavev on Wash today when Volca and Venu raped you ;]
    Stone RG likes this.
  11. Stone RG

    Stone RG Megas are broke

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    Yea, i got fu****, i was on PO, i didnt verify what team i had lol.

    But yea just changed it.
    Shurtugal likes this.

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