Upcoming Circus Maximus Changes

[Flounder]

We need a tier list for mafia players. Mekkah can probably do it.

I think the three main separations are based on the quality of the game:

Beginner, like ew's basic mafia, will have simple roles, with 1-2 twists.

Standard, will be like most of the mafias we've played so far, with a few exceptions. Your game isn't good enough for you to select the players to play it.
Expert should not however be an 'expert' game per se, merely a determination based off the quality of the game. i.e.: is it good enough that the host should be able to hand-pick players. I don't exactly like the term 'expert,' because it implies the same people will get chosen again and again. While to a large extent this will may be true, I think the top level should be used for top-quality mafias, rather than top level players.

Any idea on how experimental games will be handled under this system? I presume they'll be added directly into standard, would this be correct?

Handling of experimental games would likely depend on what the host wanted to do - some may want to try it out in standard, some may prefer to have it initially played by the "expert-level" players before having it run by "standard" players - less risk of it getting fucked up, concept is likely to be "explored" more fully by people who have played before; less idlers and "cautious" people (i.e., players who really don't make an effort, they just do as they're told)

 

[Amelia]

The post that got my attention was the fact that if experienced was handpicked, it would be the same people getting in over and over again. Sure, having the same players make for an interesting game, but there are some unknowns out there who are getting much better in mafia and (repeats the paragraph).

To finish this solution, we could say that only people with experience under their belts can sign up for the expert mafia, and then out of all those experience people, we randomize. Thus, with this solution, everyone with experience can sign up, and everyone experienced has a chance to enter, but this will still remove newbies from the game.

 

[az]

i personally disagree mekkah; i think mafia has lost its flair entirely

that, however, is a different issue, and it is clear there are a lot of people happy with the current system and/or many of the proposed changes. not only that, but the discussion here seems to be positive and progressive, so i shall promptly butt out

 

[askaninjask]

One of the most helpful things that I found, in terms of becoming a better player, was being on a team with someone who knew what they were doing. ie, how will new users know to set mode +s when they make a mafia channel? How will they know what is a believable false claim, or how to act in the thread etc.. Without players who've played a few games in the past, new players would have to start from square one every single game. There are strategies that work that most of us know of (uniting the village, making google spreadsheets) that new players won't.

I know I've been using "new players" and "new users" interchangably, but lets face it; many, many, many new players will be new users who may not go on IRC and may not be active. New players could even create a whole beginner mafia "metagame", which would be bad for new players wishing to play well in standard games.

While it may suck to have a role in your game played poorly by a new user, throwing all the new players into an isolated group could make it impossible for them to get better.

 

[Accent]

I think the host would make beginner games... beginner-friendly; i mean of course they would help the players when needed and give them advice but you could also imagine a role that says 'during night one, you can send 'Night 1 - set up a mafia channel" or something. Designing games with a completely new crowd of players in mind is interesting and could lead to fantastic experiences, and then you can also have one or two more experienced players with a mentor role.

 

[polelover44]

I like the mentor role idea. A few expert volunteers would really go a long way in helping the newer players.

 

[jumpluff]

One of the most helpful things that I found, in terms of becoming a better player, was being on a team with someone who knew what they were doing. ie, how will new users know to set mode +s when they make a mafia channel? How will they know what is a believable false claim, or how to act in the thread etc.. Without players who've played a few games in the past, new players would have to start from square one every single game. There are strategies that work that most of us know of (uniting the village, making google spreadsheets) that new players won't.

I know I've been using "new players" and "new users" interchangably, but lets face it; many, many, many new players will be new users who may not go on IRC and may not be active. New players could even create a whole beginner mafia "metagame", which would be bad for new players wishing to play well in standard games.

While it may suck to have a role in your game played poorly by a new user, throwing all the new players into an isolated group could make it impossible for them to get better.

That's what partner mafia is for, but you are quite right, aska. Also, I just decided based on your post to make a guide on Gmax-proofing.

 

[Thorns]

we need to figure out how this hypothetical partner mafia will be held. once every 2-3 beginner games as yeti suggested sounds good. will it be hosted by two people assigned to it (think how phil and jumbo do battling 101) or will it be hosted by anybody who wants to?

 

[THE_IRON_...KENYAN?]

If you throw mentors into a newb game they will just get name killed. Mentors should be non players out to help and teach newbies to play the game while newbies are playing the game to maximize teaching time by prolonging the life of said mentors indefinitely. The only time the tutor goes away is when the newbie finally dies. The tutors alliance would obviously be kept secret.

They would be as uninformed and tied to the rules of a formal mafia game as the newbies they are mentoring, as well as unable to participate directly in the game so they dont end up abusing their immortality.

Tutoring games would be small yet effective to counteract potential mentor shortages, with basic and easy to understand roles for newbies to easily grasp.

There would be mentor sign ups to find potential mentors for newbies, and elaborate sign ups for newbie games in which the newbie would tell a little about him/herself and their mafia experience.

Those who got rejected from the tutoring beginner game will be given priority for the next tutoring game.

 

[blue_light]

If all the mentors are good then there won't be name killing. Name killing only happens if there are specifically 2-3 experienced/dangerous players in a pool of 20+. You can't name kill if there are 20+ experienced players, unless yo're just getting hated on which shouldn't happen in mafia games as it has so strategic value at all. Plus, the mentor in partner mafia shouldn't be doing much anyways, they should be giving advice, but they shouldn't be the ones actively leading they should let their pupils do that instead and help steer them in the right direction otherwise they will never learn.

 

[dak]

but there aren't 20 good, let alone equally good, players by a long shot, so the kenyan dudes concept is actually pretty swell

 

[jumpluff]

i agree with tik. in fact, i'm going to implement secret mentoring in my partner game, though newbies might accidentally out their tutor. hmm.

 

[Mekkah]

How about a beginner's game where asking the advice of an (anonymous) experienced player is a limited ability? Obviously the players would have to be not in the know, so maybe assign 1-2 good players for each evil team, and the others help villagers to avoid busting moles.