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Ursaring (QC 3/3) (GP 3/3)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Epikhairz, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    First BW analysis :D
    It might be a little lacking / rushed cuz I was strapped on time

    [​IMG]

    Current On-site analysis

    Skeleton (open)
    [Overview]
    • Powerful status attacker who has two abilities which allow it to play its role slightly differently
    • Absurdly high 130 base Attack stat
    • Struggles to stand out against other status attackers, especially Zangoose, who fills the same role as Ursaring for the most part
    • Has better bulk than other status attackers with decent 90 / 75 / 75 defenses
    • Terrible Speed stat of 55
    • Quick Feet remedies bad Speed slightly while also giving it a niche in being a fast and bulkier status attacker
    • It has a good Speed stat to serve as a monstrous Guts attacker under Trick Room
    • Aside from better bulk, the best way that Ursaring differentiates itself from its competitor Zangoose is that Quick Feet gives it slightly greater Speed, while Guts makes it more powerful. However, this requires it to specialize, making it generally inferior
    [SET]
    name: Quick Feet
    move 1: Protect / Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Quick Feet
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Carves itself a niche as a bulkier but still fast status attacker
    • Quick Feet remedies its terrible Speed stat and makes it pretty good
    • Being able outspeed the 91-105 speed tier (e.g. Sigilyph, Manectric, fast Uxie, Sigilyph, Scyther, Rotom) and having extra bulk makes it significantly better at cleaning offensive teams
    • Protect ensures that the orb activates for that Speed boost - kind of like a boosting move
    • Swords Dance can be used instead to further boost Attack stat if you're confident you don't need Protect to get the Orb to activate
    • Facade is the main STAB option - boosted by poison status and hits extremely hard
    • Close Combat hits Rock- and Steel-types which resist Facade supereffectively
    • Crunch hits Ghost-types supereffectively, as they are immune to both Facade and Close Combat, granting perfect coverage
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Toxic Orb instead of Flame Orb because Flame Orb cuts down Attack
    • Jolly nature boosts Ursaring's Speed and distinguishes itself from Zangoose by being much faster
    • Still not that fast even after boosting nature, max Speed investment, and Quick Feet status boost.
    • Ghost-types and Psychic-types are great teammates to have as they can both cover Ursaring's Fighting weakness while also wearing down Steel-types such as Escavalier and Steelix. This allows Ursaring to clean through teams much more easily late-game. Examples include Spiritomb and Uxie.
    • More offensive approaches toward taking down Ursaring such as Sucker Punch Absol or Spiritomb and Escavalier can be taken down with Durant and certain variants of Moltres, respectively
    • Physically based Water-types such as Kabutops and Samurott are also good teammates as they pressure most Rock- and Steel-types and can wear down bulky Water-types
    [SET]
    name: Village Crusher
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Flame Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • This set trades off a lot of Speed gained from Quick Feet in favor of Guts' raw power
    • Natural bulk allows it to shrug off weaker attacks, which allows it to do better than Zangoose against defensive teams
    • Powerful enough to OHKO Steelix after Sturdy breaks and defensive Spiritomb at +2, as well as being able to 2HKO Alomomola
    • Swords Dance bolsters Attack to monstrous levels
    • Facade is the main STAB and destroys stuff after STAB, Guts, and status effect
    • Earthquake is a powerful option covering lots of threats and doesn't lower defenses, thus lengthening Ursaring's survivability. It covers Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade
    • Crunch hits Ghost-types that are immune to Facade and Close Combat
    • Crushes villages

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Adamant Nature to maximize Attack power
    • EVs allow Ursaring to outpace min Speed Lanturn while maximizing Attack power for offensive presence and putting the rest in HP for bulk
    • Flame Orb > Toxic Orb because Flame Orb damages you consistently instead of racking up in damage, which is great because Ursaring wants to stay in for longer periods of time to dismantle bulky cores and destroy villages - will be staying in the 4+ turns for Toxic damage to outweigh burn damage
    • Close Combat is one of Ursaring's more powerful coverage options, but lowers Ursaring's bulk after each subsequent use, and that can be a problem in a set where Ursaring's bulk is its niche.
    • Seed Bomb hits obscure bulky Water-types such as the aformentioned Alomomola, as well as Quagsire, supereffectively, but otherwise its other coverage options are better
    • Offensive Ghost-types such as Rotom and Spiritomb are good teammates as Ursaring covers their Ghost-type weakness and the Ghost-types cover its Fighting-type weakness
    [Other Options]
    • Very few other viable options
    • Fire Punch allows Ursaring to bypass Durant, Escavalier, and Ferroseed
    • Has other boosting moves such as Belly Drum and Work Up (former gets you killed easy, other sucks next to SD)
    • A SleepTalk set could be used in conjunction with Bulk Up, but is generally outclassed by Vigoroth, which retains similar bulk to Ursaring thanks to Eviolite, while being immune to Sleep, possessing higher Speed, and having better support moves such as Slack Off and Taunt
    • Weaker Fighting-type moves such as Low Kick, Hammer Arm, and Superpower
    • Lots of coverage moves (Stone Edge, elemental punches), but Ursaring already has perfect coverage
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Priority users such as Hitmonlee / Hitmonchan's Mach Punch or Sucker Punch from Pokemon like Absol
    • Ferroseed can counter Guts set if it doesn't have Close Combat or Fire Punch and can chip away at it with Iron Barbs + Leech Seed
    • Steelix and Rhydon can take all of Ursaring's moves except for a Guts Close Combat or Earthquake
    • Alomomola and Tangrowth can avoid a 2HKO from Quick Feet Ursaring and can kind of chip away at Ursaring
    • Ursaring's reliance on status orbs is a double-edged sword; it hates the residual damage, and a Ghost-type can come in and Ursaring will have to predict to not get hit by residual damage and then they can threaten Ursaring (Missy Foul Play, Spiritomb Sucker Punch, ScarfTom outspeeds Quick Feet, and SubSplit Rotom takes out Guts set from below 70% or so
    • Fast Pokemon with Speed investment such as Sceptile
    • Choice Scarf users
    • Escavalier can take a hit even from Guts Ursaring and OHKO back with Megahorn. It's also slow enough to play TR against you

    [Overview]

    <p>Say hello to Ursaring, a Pokemon that has been crushing villages since ADV. With its absurdly high base 130 Attack and its two abilities allowing it to play as different kinds of status attackers, this thing is a serious threat to watch out for. It's also slightly bulkier than other status attackers, with decent defenses of 90 / 75 / 75. It has a terrible base Speed of 55, but that can easily be mitigated with Quick Feet.</p>

    <p>However, Ursaring receives a ton of competition from other status attackers, most notably Zangoose. Zangoose, which is a similar status attacker to Ursaring thanks to its Dream World ability Toxic Boost, is faster than Guts Ursaring, and stronger than Quick Feet Ursaring, so Ursaring is required to specialize to stand out, making it generally inferior. In fact, the only thing that Ursaring is better at in both sets is its bulk. Don't let all this discourage you from using Ursaring, though; while the metagame around it has shifted, Ursaring itself still functions as the same town smasher it was before, and is a deadly force to be reckoned with.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Quick Feet
    move 1: Protect / Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
    ability: Quick Feet
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Quick Feet, Ursaring is able to carve itself a niche in the metagame as a bulkier and slightly faster status attacker than Zangoose. With the Quick Feet boost, Ursaring is able to outspeed Pokemon in the base 91 to base 105 Speed tier, such as Sigilyph, Scyther, and Rotom, which makes it significantly better at cleaning offensive teams in conjunction with its decent bulk. Protect ensures that the status Orb activates and Ursaring gets its Speed boost, making it kind of like a boosting move. However, if you feel confident that you don't need Protect to activate the Orb and keep Ursaring alive, you can use Swords Dance to boost Ursaring's Attack and muscle through defensive threats a little easier. Facade is the STAB move of choice for this set, as the boost from the poison status pushes this attack to absurd levels of power. Close Combat is a great coverage option for hitting the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade, and Crunch hits the Ghost-types that are immune to both the previous moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because this set aims to be faster than Zangoose, a Jolly nature is preferred, as it allows Ursaring to do so. However, even after having a Jolly nature, Quick Feet, and maximum Speed investment, Ursaring still isn't that fast, which is something that should be kept in mind while battling. The choice of Orb is up to you. However, Toxic Orb deals less damage for the first three turns Ursaring is on the field, making it a more useful hit-and-run item. As for teammates, Ghost- and Psychic-types are great teammates to have, as they can both cover Ursaring's Fighting weakness. This allows Ursaring to clean through teams much more easily late-game. Examples of some good Pokemon to use include Spiritomb and Uxie. Physically based Water-types such as Kabutops and Samurott are also good teammates as they pressure most Rock- and Steel-types and can wear down bulky Water-types. Finally, more offensive approaches toward taking down Ursaring, such as Sucker Punch Absol and Spiritomb, as well as Escavalier, can be taken down with Durant and certain variants of Moltres, respectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Village Crusher (Guts)
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Flame Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set eschews the Speed gained from Quick Feet in favor of the raw power of Guts. Ursaring also possesses greater natural bulk than Zangoose, allowing it to take weaker hits better; this is useful against defensive teams. It is also powerful enough to OHKO both Steelix after Sturdy and defensive Spiritomb at +2, as well as to 2HKO Alomomola. Swords Dance is used in this set to boost Ursaring's already enormous Attack to extreme levels. Facade is the main STAB move here and wrecks teams after STAB, status, and Swords Dance are taken into account. Earthquake is a powerful coverage option that covers the Rock- and Steel-types that shrug off a Facade with ease. Finally, Crunch hits Ghost-types, notably Golurk, which are immune to Facade.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because this set is focused more on hitting hard, an Adamant nature is preferred. The listed EVs allow Ursaring to outpace minimum Speed Lanturn while maximizing Attack power for offensive presence and also making Ursaring slightly bulkier with some HP EVs. This set utilizes a Flame Orb instead of a Toxic Orb because it will be staying in for longer periods of time and the Toxic damage will outdamage that of the burn after 4 turns. As for some other move options, Close Combat is a really powerful one that covers Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade, but it lowers Ursaring's bulk after each subsequent use, which can be a problem for a set where Ursaring's bulk is its niche. Finally, offensive Ghost-types such as Rotom and Spiritomb are good teammates, as Ursaring covers their Ghost-type weakness and the Ghost-types cover its Fighting-type weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Unfortunately, Ursaring has very few other viable options it can turn to. Fire Punch is a decent move that allows Ursaring to bypass Durant, Escavalier, and Ferroseed more easily, but it's going to find a hard time fitting it into one of the above sets. It also has some other interesting boosting moves such as Belly Drum and Work Up. However, the former will get Ursaring KOed easily while the other pales in comparison to the +2 boost that Swords Dance provides. A RestTalk set can be used in conjunction with Bulk Up, but is generally outclassed by Vigoroth, which possesses similar bulk to Ursaring thanks to Eviolite, higher Speed, and better support moves such as Slack Off and Taunt. Finally, Ursaring has lots of great coverage moves such as Stone Edge and the elemental punches, but the moves given on the above sets already give Ursaring perfect coverage.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ursaring, unfortunately, doesn't come without its checks and counters. First of all, Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan's Mach Punch and Sucker Punch from Pokemon like Absol will put a massive dent in Ursaring's HP. Ferroseed can check the Guts set if Ursaring doesn't have Close Combat or Fire Punch and can chip away at it with a combination of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed. Steelix and Rhydon can take all of Ursaring's moves except for a Guts-boosted Close Combat and Earthquake. Alomomola and Tangrowth can avoid a 2HKO from Quick Feet Ursaring and can also chip away at it. Additionally, Ursaring's reliance on status Orbs is also a double-edged sword; it hates the residual damage and can often be worn down simply by switching in Ghost-types, which are immune to its most powerful attacks. Fast Pokemon with Speed investment, such as Sceptile and Durant, will have no trouble taking down Ursaring. Of course, if even Pokemon without a Choice Scarf can outpace and beat Ursaring, Choice Scarf users such as Medicham will usually be able to do the same. Finally, Escavalier can stomach a hit even from Guts Ursaring and OHKOes it with Megahorn.</p>
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  2. Rohail

    Rohail Vaporeon <3
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    I have a few tips that might help (not QC though):

    C&C needs more content in it imo. Escavalier and Druddigon can tank a hit from Guts Ursaring and OHKO back with Megahorn and Outrage, respectively. They can also use you TR against you. Mandibuzz has a 2% chance to get 3HKOed while it can 2HKO back with Foul Play. Offesnsive variants of Tangrowth can OHKO Ursaring with either Focus Blast or Leaf Storm, while they can take up to three Facades from Guts Ursaring. Basically, fast offensive Pokemon aren't the only things that can check Ursaring, which is what the current C&C implies.

    AC for both sets also needs to be fleshed out. Mention Sigilyph, Uxie, and Spiritomb as partners to take on Fighting-types instead of Moltres, as they typically do a better job at it. Mention offensive Ghost-types such as Rotom and Spiritomb as partners for Ursaring as they can switch into its Fighting-type weakness while Ursaring can switch into their Ghost-type weakness. Don't mention Moltres as a partner for the Guts set, as you yourself said that it should only be used on TR teams (a team in which Moltres isn't very good). Instead, mention how TR setters such as Uxie and Slowking can take on Fighting-types for Ursaring, supporting it even more. Fire Punch also deserves a solid AC mention on both sets imo, as it lets Ursaring easily bypass Ferroseed, Escavalier, Durant, and Amoonguss, but Ursaring will then be left severely vulnerable to Rock-types such as Aggron and Rhydon.

    Also, please remove Night Slash from OO, the slightly increased chance of a critical hit really doesn't justify it being used over Crunch (does it??).

    I'm sorry for this being all over the place lol. Also, you don't have to listen to my suggestions since I'm not QC Epikhairz0603. Good job for a first analysis btw (much better than mine was lol <_<)
  3. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    ok I added most of your changes thanks :D
  4. 49

    49
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    Ok, hiya n_n So I'm not going to stamp just yet, as there is some debate on what does and does not deserve primary mention on the analysis, but I'd like to iron out certain things and present some ideas now.

    First and fore-mostly, I would reword the bit about facing competition in the overview to reflect that it competes for use with most offensive Normal-types for use, with Zangoose being mentioned specifically for the reason that they perform almost identically, barring minor differences.

    Accordingly, the Quick Feet set should be stating clearly why to use this over Zangoose, who hits much harder, has somewhat similar Speed (accounting for Quick Feet), and can accomodate that Speed difference somewhat w/Quick Attack. Mention specifically that edging out ahead of the 91-105 group (including Rotom, fast Uxie, Sigilyph, Manectric, Scyther, etc.) and the extra bulk makes it significantly better and cleaning offensive teams. Speaking of, Protect should be bumped up to the first slot, with Swords Dance as a secondary option; Protect is the equivalent of a set-up move to Ursaring and should be given priority on slashes, and being able to securely activate its orb allows it to more consistently set up vs.offense, which is its preferred match-up. I'd also consider mentions of physically-based Water-types sweepers, such as Samurott and Kabutops, as partners, as they serve to pressure most Rock- and Steel-types, force bulky Water-types to be worn down, etc. Ursaring can even deter the bulky / fast Grass-types from going for Sleep Powder, though that's a secondary.

    As for the Village Crusher set, the QC members that we on irc (myself, Molk, and SV) were somewhat unsure on whether or not it was deserving of a set, as its niche is pretty narrow. As it stands, I would like you to change the set to this:

    [SET]
    name: Village Crusher
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Seed Bomb / Crunch
    item: Flame Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe

    Trick Room sweepers that don't utilize the move itself are typically not mentioned specifically unless they really excel in the format and there alone, and in the current metagame dedicated Trick Room isn't particularly effective. That said, Guts Ursaring's best bet is in a stall-breaking role, where its higher damage output and ability to shrug off weaker attacks due to solid bulk allows it to handle various defensive threats more comfortably than Zangoose. The extra damage allows it to OHKO defensive Spiritomb at +2 with SR damage, as well as standard Steelix once Sturden is broken, and can 2HKO Alomomola even with two turns of Lefties recovery (coming in+protect turn). Note it may still be rejected at a later point, but for now use this n_n
  5. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    damn thats a lot of work

    changes implemented!
  6. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    I think Earthquake should on Guts instead of Close Combats.

    I know that Close Combat is a bit more powerful, but I feel like, especially on Guts where the bulk is more important in regards to against Zangoose, the fact you don't lose bulk when faced against weaker attacks is very useful. Even against stronger attacks, the -1 in defense makes you lose to a lot of stuff Ursaring could otherwise tank and then subsequently OHKO

    Here are a few attacks that Ursaring could have otherwise survived after 1 or even 2 rounds of burn recoil if it hadn't been at -1.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Spiritomb Sucker Punch vs. -1 156 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 322-381 (89.44 - 105.83%)
    252+ Atk Kabutops Stone Edge vs. -1 156 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 313-369 (86.94 - 102.5%)
    252 SpA Life Orb Sigilyph Psychic vs. -1 156 HP / 0 SpD Ursaring: 308-364 (85.55 - 101.11%)
    252+ Atk Rhydon Earthquake vs. -1 156 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 340-402 (94.44 - 111.66%)
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Tauros Rock Climb vs. -1 156 HP / 0 Def Ursaring: 394-464 (109.44 - 128.88%)

    The only OHKO Close Combat guarantees that Earthquake doesn't is vs Steelix but with Spikes it is pretty much guaranteed iirc (after lefties) and generally the reason why Sturdy would be broken is because of Spikes, and the only other reason it would be broken is being worn down, which obviously doesn't matter. Even then Earthquake is the only way to guarantee a OHKO vs Spiritomb without hazards since Seed Bomb and Crunch do like 88% minimum. I don't see much of a reason to run Close Combat here when Ursaring needs its bulk to not be outclassed.
  7. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    Added EQ as primary slash over CC on Village Crusher
  8. McGrrr

    McGrrr Facetious
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    GutSTalk:

    Ursaring @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts / Quick Feet
    EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Return
    - Bulk Up
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest

    Obviously, this is hard-walled by any ghost, so kill your opponent's ghost + profit. Quick Feet offers situational opportunities to absorb a hit before resting, but attacking first when Ursaring wakes up.

    Edit: updated because Facade isn't affected by Sleep. Leftovers is also far more useful than Toxic Orb for longevity.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2013
  9. 49

    49
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    Ok, hey, sorry for takin' so long to get back to this, been really backed up with other work lately :[ However, finally got some more time to test (even when the ladder is dead-ish), so here we go.

    Overview:
    • Mention directly that (aside from better bulk) the best way Ursaring differentiates itself from Zangoose is either through the slightly higher Speed offered by Quick Feet or better core-breaking capabilities of SD Guts, but requires it to specialize its role in exchange (making it generally inferior)

    Quick Feet:
    • Remove the point about Ursaring hitting harder than Zangoose, as this is only true prior to their respective status orbs being activated
    • There's no need to explain the EV spread really, it's straightforward enough to be self-explanatory. You could maybe confirm that a Jolly nature is necessary for distinguishing itself from Zangoose, but otherwise you can just leave those points out
    • I don't see Psychic-types as valuable partners, at least for the reasons you stated :/ Aside from lower-tier Fighting-types, such as Primeape and Gurdurr, the only Fighting-types that commonly run sets that can outpace and thereby threaten Ursaring are Hitmonlee and the occasional Hitmonchan, and for this Ghost-types (which you already have listed among partners) are better for this, as they can fulfill the same role some more effectively while also preventing Unburden 'Lee from activating its Gem of choice under normal circumstances.
    • The way I would approach this would be to group Ghost- and Psychic-types together, mentioning that they can both offer a fallback for Fighting-types (as you mention) and wearing down Steel-types (Esca, Steelix, etc.) for Ursa to better clean late-game, then make a separate mention of 'mons that effectively capitalize on the more offensive responses to Ursaring (Sucker Punch users, such as Absol+Spiritomb, Esca, etc.), which could include [Sub / Agility] Moltres and Durant.

    Village Crusher:
    For reference, I'm currently planning on approving this set, but I need to convince some people :>
    • When I first posted on this set, I completely overlooked Earthquake, so I'm sorry for that :[ However, with this in mind, I'd like to see CC and Seed Bomb relegated to AC; as Swamp-Rocket stated, the Def drops of CC downplay one of its biggest advantages over Zangoose (ie.decent bulk), and, outside of better pressuring obscure 'mons such as Quagsire, the saving grace of Seed Bomb over the less narrowly-focused Crunch (which can at the very least help v.bulky Rotom-N and Misdreavus) was that it allowed Ursa to maintain its Defense while breaking through 'mons such as Rhydon, allowing it to more effectively combat balanced teams.
    • You actually should explain EVs here (outpace min Speed Lanturn, maximize offensive presence, etc.) :>
    • Mention specifically why you'd rather the consistent damage of Flame Orb > Toxic Orb here; Village Crusher specifically aims to dismantle defensive cores, therefore it will typically be staying in for the 4+ turns required for the residual damage of Toxic damage to outweigh burn damage
    • Since Ursaring is typically the "breaker" in such offensive cores, I'd either rephrase the offensive Water-type mentions to state that they can clean better w/Ursa beating down bulky Water-types / generalized physical walls (and pack that priority Aqua Jet, which means that they help accommodate its admittedly lackluster performance against more offensive builds) or drop it altogether. Similarly, I'd add more than simple "Ghost / Psychic resists Fighting, therefore X, Y, and Z" make good partners, because ok defensive synergy alone shouldn't merit mention here imo.

    Other Options:

    • Remove Night Slash, bump Fire Punch up above the "lots of coverage options" bit, and remove Amoonguss on the Fire Punch mention; unless there was some immediately pertinent means of capitalizing on Night Slash's higher CH rate (such as Sniper, as with the case of Drapion), I see no reason to address it, active Facade out-damages Fire Punch vs.Amoonguss, and it makes more since to mention Fire Punch before you address its other elemental punches in a big lump :P
    • Add McGrrr's set here, either as a sub-mention to its alternate boosting moves. It is a decent enough set in its own right, but actually faces a great deal of competition from Vigoroth, who retains very similar bulk via Eviolite, and holds Sleep immunity, higher Speed, and Slack Off / Taunt over it.

    Checks & Counters:

    • Needs some expanding. Add Ferroseed (counters Guts nicely if no CC, can chip away w/Leech Seed+Iron Barbs) Steelix+Rhydon (who can take all but Guts EQ / CC very comfortably), Tangrowth / Alomomola (both can avoid the 2HKO from Quick Feet sets nicely, can chip away at both to some extent), etc.
    • Beyond the immediate points, residual damage is a big "check" to Ursa, since it relies on status orbs to become threatening, which really racks up when accompanied by hazards. In a similar vein, mention that Ghost-types (Rotom-N, Spiritomb, Misdreavus), force Ursa to predict to not take another turn of status damage for nothing, and can apply pressure to some degree from there (Scarftom outpaces QF / Sub-Split takes out Guts from below 70ish%, 'Tomb can threaten w/[Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Foul Play], Missy can Foul Play, etc.)
    • Side bar, I'd drop offensive Tangrowth specifically (since it's now going to be mentioned on a general level), and possibly outright drop Mandibuzz / Drudd; Mandibuzz is primarily specially defensive in RU, and while Foul Play does hurt, Missy / 'Tomb make more pertinent examples of Foul Play users here, and Drudd is either OHKOed by Guts (116.1 - 136.72%) or 2HKOed by Quick Feet (70.62 - 83.33%).

    Implement all this, and I'll stamp (well, ya know, I'll maybe nit-pick a lil', but still x_x). Sorry for taking so long to get to you on this, and for all the edits I'm asking of you, we really appreciate you putting up with it =)
  10. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    ok yeah thanks ive implemented all the changes! phew
  11. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
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    Let's get this done.

    QC Approved 1/3
  12. 49

    49
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    Yeah, this looks alright imo

    [​IMG]
    qc haha, I snuck in Village Crusher b4 SV or whoever could object, #ur2slow #winning #sixseasonsandamovie / 3
  13. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    Thanks for the stamps! Will get this written up once I'm on my laptop and when I'm not tired af
  14. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    written and ready for final QC check sorry for delay
  15. ScraftyIsTheBest

    ScraftyIsTheBest I Love Goomy
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    Hiya, here I go.

    • EQ hits Spiritomb harder than Crunch on Village Crusher, replace that with Golurk
    • Alomomola and Tangrowth can...kind of chip away at Ursaring's health? They do chip it away decently, especially with the status cutting into the bear's lifespan
    • It's Sleep Talk not SleepTalk
    • Remove the "these days" and "now" mentions from the overview, they make this seem outdated, especially since BW2 has been a thing for well over a year now
    • Remove the last sentence from the second paragraph of the overview, it's useless
    • It's not just Sceptile that can outpace Ursaring after a Quick Feet boost, Cinccino, Scolipede, Galvantula, and Durant can too
    Other than that this is fine imo, so you can consider this

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 3/3
  16. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    mk done thanks!
  17. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego No matter if it seems so hard, friends are near
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor

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    Epikhairz0603

    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

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    [Overview]

    <p>Say hello to Ursaring, a Pokemon which that has been crushing villages since ADV. With its absurdly high 130 base 130 Attack and its two abilities allowing it to play as different kinds of status attackers, this thing is a serious threat to watch out for if used right. It's also slightly bulkier than other status attackers, with decent defenses of 90 / 75 / 75 that no other status attacker can boast. It has a terrible base Speed stat of 55, but that can easily be mitigated with Quick Feet.</p>

    <p>However, Ursaring is receives a ton of competition from other status attackers, and this competition comes mostly under the name of "Zangoose". Zangoose, which is a similar status attacker to Ursaring thanks to its Dream World ability Toxic Boost, is faster than Guts Ursaring, (RC) while stronger than Quick Feet Ursaring, so Ursaring is required to specialize to stand out, making it generally inferior. In fact, the only thing that Ursaring is better at in both sets is its bulk. Don't let all this discourage you from using Ursaring though; while the metagame around it has shifted, Ursaring itself still functions as the same town smasher it was before, and can be a deadly force to be reckoned with if played right.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Quick Feet
    move 1: Protect / Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
    ability: Quick Feet
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Quick Feet, Ursaring is able to carve its own niche in the metagame by being a bulkier and slightly faster status attacker than Zangoose. With the Quick Feet boost, Ursaring is able to outspeed Pokemon in the base 91-105 Speed tier, (AC)such as Sigilyph, Scyther, and Rotom, which makes it significantly better at cleaning offensive teams in conjunction with its decent bulk. Protect is the first move to ensure that the status Orb activates and Ursaring gets its Speed boost, making it kind of like a boosting move. However, if you feel confident that you don't need Protect to activate the Orb and keep yourself alive, you can use Swords Dance to boost Ursaring's Attack and muscle through defensive threats a little easier. Facade is the STAB move of choice for this set, as the boost from the poison status will push this attack to absurd levels of power. Close Combat is a great coverage option for hitting the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade, while Crunch will hit the Ghost-types which that are immune to both the previous moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because this set aims to be faster than Zangoose, a Jolly nature is preferred to do that to the best of its ability. However, even after Jolly, Quick Feet, and maximum Speed investment, Ursaring still isn't that fast, so that's something to think about while battling. A Toxic Orb is used here instead of a Flame Orb because the Flame Orb will cut down Ursaring's Attack, as opposed to Guts. This is 100% wrong The choice of Orb is up to you. However, Toxic Orb deals less damage for the first three turns Ursaring is on the field, making it a more useful hit-and-run item. As for teammates, Ghost- and Psychic-types are great teammates to have as they can both cover Ursaring's Fighting weakness while also wearing down Steel-types such as Escavalier and Steelix Ghosts wear down steels? I don't really get this, just say that they resist its fighting weakness. This allows Ursaring to clean through teams much more easily late-game. Examples of some good Pokemon to use include Spiritomb and Uxie. Physically based Water-types such as Kabutops and Samurott are also good teammates as they pressure most Rock- and Steel-types and can wear down bulky Water-types. Finally, more offensive approaches toward taking down Ursaring, such as Sucker Punch Absol or Spiritomb and Escavalier, can be taken down with Durant and certain variants of Moltres, respectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Village Crusher
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Flame Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set trades off the Speed gained from Quick Feet in favor of the raw power of Guts to crush villages. Ursaring also retains its natural bulk, allowing it to take weaker hits better and fare better than Zangoose against defensive teams. It is powerful enough to OHKO Steelix after Sturdy breaks and defensive Spiritomb at +2, as well as being able to 2HKO Alomomola. Swords Dance is used in this set to boost Ursaring's already enormous Attack to extreme levels a level fit to take out villages with ease. Pls don't mention villages again Facade is the main town-sacking STAB move here and wrecks teams houses after STAB, status, and Swords Dance are taken into account. Earthquake is a powerful coverage option covering lots of threats while allowing that Ursaring to retain its decent defenses, thus lengthening its survivability. It covers Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade nicely. Finally, Crunch hits Ghost-types that are immune to Facade, such as Golurk and is mostly for those defensive ones such as Golurk.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because this set is focused more on hitting hard, an Adamant nature is preferred. The listed EVs allow Ursaring to outpace minimum Speed Lanturn while maximizing Attack power for offensive presence and also making Ursaring slightly bulkier with some HP EVs. This set utilizes a Flame Orb instead of a Toxic Orb because it will be staying in for long periods of time, (AC) to dismantle villages and the Toxic damage will increase enough to be more than the burn damage after 4 turns. As for some other move options, Close Combat is a really powerful one that covers Rock- and Steel-types which that resist Facade, but however, it lowers Ursaring's bulk after each subsequent use, and that can be a problem in a set where Ursaring's bulk is its niche. Finally, offensive Ghost-types such as Rotom and Spiritomb are good teammates, (AC) as Ursaring covers their Ghost-type weakness and the Ghost-types cover its Fighting-type weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>You would think that a Pokemon known for dismantling villages would have more options it can utilize, but Unfortunately, Ursaring has very few other viable options it can turn to. Fire Punch is a decent move that allows Ursaring to bypass Durant, Escavalier, and Ferroseed more easily, but it's going to find a hard time fitting it into one of the above sets. It also has some other interesting boosting moves such as Belly Drum and Work Up. (period) However, the former will get Ursaring killed easily while the other pales in comparison to the +2 boost that Swords Dance provides. A Sleep Talk set could be used in conjunction with Bulk Up, but is generally outclassed by Vigoroth, which retains similar bulk to Ursaring thanks to Eviolite, while being immune to sleep, Why would a sleep talk set be used then? Ursaring is immune to sleep too...status orb... possesses a higher Speed, and has better support moves such as Slack Off and Taunt. It can also use weaker Fighting moves such as Low Kick, Hammer Arm, and Superpower, but Close Combat is almost always the best option for Ursaring. Finally, it has lots of great coverage moves such as Stone Edge and the elemental punches, but the above sets already give Ursaring perfect coverage.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ursaring is not the perfect Village Crusher and it unfortunately doesn't come without its checks and counters. First of all, priority users such as Hitmonlee or Hitmonchan's Mach Punch or Sucker Punch from Pokemon like Absol will put massive dents in Ursaring's HP. Ferroseed can counter its Guts set if it doesn't have Close Combat or Fire Punch and can chip away at it with a combination of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed. Steelix and Rhydon can take all of Ursaring's moves except for a Guts-boosted Close Combat or Earthquake. Then they don't sound like counters to me. If they are, then play them up more Alomomola and Tangrowth can avoid a 2HKO from Quick Feet Ursaring and can also chip away at Ursaring. Additionally, Ursaring's reliance on status Orbs may also be is a double-edged sword; it hates the residual damage, and a Ghost-types are immune to its most poweful attacks can come in and Ursaring will have to predict to not get hit by residual damage and then they can threaten Ursaring. Fast Pokemon with Speed investment such as Sceptile and Durant will have no trouble taking down Ursaring. Of course, if even Pokemon without a Choice Scarf can outpace and beat Ursaring, Choice Scarf users such as Medicham will usually be able to do the same. Finally, Escavalier can stomach a hit even from Guts Ursaring and can OHKO with Megahorn. It is also slow enough to outpace Trick Room variants under Trick Room.</p>

    [​IMG]
    1/2
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2013
  18. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    mk done thanks!

    I didn't know Quick Feet didn't cut Attack 0.o. I guess I learn something new every day
  19. Kingler12345

    Kingler12345 COOKIE COOKIE COOKIE STARTS WITH C
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Additions
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    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>Say hello to Ursaring, a Pokemon that has been crushing villages since ADV. With it's its absurdly high base 130 Attack and its two abilities allowing it to play as different kinds of status attackers, this thing is a serious threat to watch out for. It's also slightly bulkier than other status attackers, with decent defenses of 90 / 75 / 75. It has a terrible base Speed of 55, but that can easily be mitigated with Quick Feet.</p>

    <p>However, Ursaring receives a ton of competition from other status attackers, and this competition comes mostly under the name of "Zangoose" from Zangoose. Zangoose, which is a similar status attacker to Ursaring thanks to its Dream World ability Toxic Boost, is faster than Guts Ursaring,(AC) while stronger than Quick Feet Ursaring, so Ursaring is required to specialize to stand out, making it generally inferior. In fact, the only thing that Ursaring is better at in both sets is its bulk. Don't let all this discourage you from using Ursaring,(AC) though; while the metagame around it has shifted, Ursaring itself still functions as the same town smasher it was before, and can be a deadly force to be reckoned with.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Quick Feet
    move 1: Protect / Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Close Combat
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
    ability: Quick Feet
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Quick Feet, Ursaring is able to carve its own itself a niche in the metagame by being ; that of a bulkier and slightly faster status attacker than Zangoose. With the Quick Feet boost, Ursaring is able to outspeed Pokemon in the base 91-105 91 to base 105 Speed tier, such as Sigilyph, Scyther, and Rotom, which makes it significantly better at cleaning offensive teams in conjunction with its decent bulk. Protect is the first move to ensure and ensures that the status Orb activates and Ursaring gets its Speed boost, making it kind of like a boosting move. However, if you feel confident that you don't need Protect to activate the Orb and keep yourself Ursaring alive, you can use Swords Dance to boost Ursaring's Attack and muscle through defensive threats a little easier. Facade is the STAB move of choice for this set, as the boost from the poison status will push pushes this attack to absurd levels of power. Close Combat is a great coverage option for hitting the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade, while Crunch will hit hits the Ghost-types that are immune to both the previous moves.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because this set aims to be faster than Zangoose, a Jolly nature is preferred to do that , as it allows Ursaring to do so. However, even after having a Jolly nature, Quick Feet, and maximum Speed investment, Ursaring still isn't that fast, so that's something to think about while which is something that should be kept in mind when battling. The choice of Orb is up to you. However, Toxic Orb deals less damage for the first three turns Ursaring is on the field, making it a more useful hit-and-run item. As for teammates, Ghost- and Psychic-types are great teammates to have,(AC) as they can both cover Ursaring's Fighting weakness. This allows Ursaring to clean through teams much more easily late-game. Examples of some good Pokemon to use include Spiritomb and Uxie. Physically based Water-types such as Kabutops and Samurott are also good teammates as they pressure most Rock- and Steel-types and can wear down bulky Water-types. Finally, more offensive approaches toward taking down Ursaring, such as Sucker Punch Absol or and Spiritomb and , as well as Escavalier, can be taken down with Durant and certain variants of Moltres, respectively.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Village Crusher
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Facade
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Crunch
    item: Flame Orb
    ability: Guts
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 156 HP / 252 Atk / 100 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set trades eschews the Speed gained from Quick Feet in favor of the raw power of Guts. Ursaring also retains its natural bulk, allowing it to take weaker hits better than Zangoose; this is useful against defensive teams. It is powerful enough to OHKO both Steelix after Sturdy and defensive Spiritomb at +2, as well as being able to 2HKO Alomomola. Swords Dance is used in this set to boost Ursaring's already enormous Attack to extreme levels. Facade is the main STAB move here and wrecks teams after STAB, status, and Swords Dance are taken into account. Earthquake is a powerful coverage option that which covers the Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade nicely shrug off a Facade with ease(perhaps mention aerodactyl as an exception?). Finally, Crunch hits Ghost-types, notably Golurk, that are immune to Facade such as Golurk.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because this set is focused more on hitting hard, an Adamant nature is preferred. The listed EVs allow Ursaring to outpace minimum Speed Lanturn while maximizing Attack power for offensive presence and also making Ursaring slightly bulkier with some HP EVs. This set utilizes a Flame Orb instead of a Toxic Orb because it will be staying in for long longer periods of time, and the Toxic damage will increase to be more than outdamage that of the burn damage after 4 turns. As for some other move options, Close Combat is a really powerful one that which covers Rock- and Steel-types that resist Facade, but it lowers Ursaring's bulk after each subsequent use, and that which can be a problem in a set where Ursaring's bulk is its niche. Finally, offensive Ghost-types such as Rotom and Spiritomb are good teammates, as Ursaring covers their Ghost-type weakness and the Ghost-types cover its Fighting-type weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Unfortunately, Ursaring has very few other viable options it can turn to. Fire Punch is a decent move that allows Ursaring to bypass Durant, Escavalier, and Ferroseed more easily, but its it's going to find a hard time fitting it into one of the above sets. It also has some other interesting boosting moves such as Belly Drum and Work Up. However, the former will get Ursaring killed KOed easily while the other pales in comparison to the +2 boost that Swords Dance provides. A Sleep Talk RestTalk set could can be used in conjunction with Bulk Up, but is generally outclassed by Vigoroth, which retains similar bulk to Ursaring thanks to Eviolite, possesses higher Speed, and has better support moves such as Slack Off and Taunt. Finally, it Ursaring has lots of great coverage moves such as Stone Edge and the elemental punches, but the moves given on the above sets already give Ursaring perfect coverage.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ursaring,(AC) unfortunately,(AC) doesn't come without its checks and counters. First of all, Hitmonlee or Hitmonchan's Mach Punch or and Sucker Punch from Pokemon like Absol will put massive dents a massive dent in Ursaring's HP. Ferroseed can check its the Guts set if it Ursaring doesn't have Close Combat or Fire Punch and can chip away at it with a combination of Iron Barbs and Leech Seed. Steelix and Rhydon can take all of Ursaring's moves except for a Guts-boosted Close Combat or and Earthquake. Alomomola and Tangrowth can avoid a 2HKO from Quick Feet Ursaring and can also chip away at Ursaring it. Additionally, Ursaring's reliance on status Orbs is also a double-edged sword; it hates the residual damage, and Ghost-types are immune to its most powerful attacks; these wasted turns chip at Ursaring's HP. Fast Pokemon with Speed investment,(AC) such as Sceptile and Durant,(AC) will have no trouble taking down Ursaring. Of course, if even Pokemon without a Choice Scarf can outpace and beat Ursaring, Choice Scarf users such as Medicham will usually be able to do the same. Finally, Escavalier can stomach a hit even from Guts Ursaring and can OHKO OHKOes it with Megahorn.</p>

    gp 2/2 most of my stuff is self-explanatory ^_^
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2013
  20. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
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    mk thanks a ton changes have been made and this is ready for upload
  21. melvni

    melvni
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    Couple other small things:

    Also change the name of the Village Crusher set to Village Crusher (Guts). That's how names like this are usually done, like on Kyurem-W's Burning Red White Kyurem set for example.

    Call this GP: 3/3
  22. Epikhairz

    Epikhairz Anything goes
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    ok done :D
  23. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
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    uploaded

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