Shaka Brah
Banned deucer.
I don't understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase it?
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Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)
- Thread starter Bughouse
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You say that unlike those two other things, illegal immigration has "severe implications". But for starters, you're severely downplaying the very real danger of speeding, a major cause of death in the united states. And you might not believe that there are severe economic implications associated with piracy (I'm certainly not going to play devil's advocate), but the case exists. So how is this in any way false equivalency? I would argue that the "socioeconomic implications" of illegal immigration are either made-up on the economic side or directly a result of our continued actions on the drug war side.
It's funny that it's easier for people talk first about "it's the law" instead. And if the law should be enforced for the law's sake alone, there are too many places to start that don't involve minorities. So people who speak out against illegal immigration rhetoric are made out to be strawmen who don't want a law enforced. When it's really just that punishment should fit the crime. You are enacting a punishment of treating an entire race of people like a venereal disease for a crime that barely matters. It should be easy to deal with illegal immigration at a time when their numbers are decreasing. Making a big platform out of it can be nothing but fear-mongering.
Frankly, I'm not just blowing smoke when I say that illegal immigration should be regulated. Not because the number of immigrants matter, it really doesn't. But because the illegal population is prone to being taken advantage of. That's not something Trump is going to be addressing.
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We're still on the "he only won because racism!! Fuck Drumpf and fuck white people" thing, 3 days after the election? The anti Trump protestors are also causing huge amounts of violence, haven't seen this mentioned here. There are people who are brutally beating Trump voters, and in the riots they're vandalizing buildings and businesses. This is disgusting, and anyone who's saying they the post-election hate is one sided is wrong.
I do think the protesters should save their energy for when shit actually starts to go down. If Trump actually pushes for laws that strip minorities of rights or rallies the population to isolate them, that's where we need to be vigilant.
Yeah, it's also ironic that the DNC is the group that was caught admitting they were behind the violence in Chicago that led to police officers getting injured trying to protect the protest.
The only faulty logic of this was that Romney won more votes in 2012 than trump did. Fun little facts would be that trump won more black and hispanic votes than romney as well. Other than that, this sums it up very nicely
Man I don't care. I ain't protesting, I ain't saying it's the right thing to do, and I have no reason to turn this into a childish "yeah but your side did something worse!" argument. I just find it funny to see someone trying to take the high horse about violence when they literally voted for a man who constantly advocated for it. The DNC is dead and I'm honestly glad to see it, they deserve it at this point and a takeover is looking inevitable. You can criticize the other side all you want, but that won't change the hypocrisy in your statements based on who you voted for.
In a truly equal utopian society, sure, but not in the world we're living in. By ignoring race and the damage that has been done based on it, you're legitimizing current inequality as the natural state of things. Ignore race and a hate crime becomes an inexplicable act of violence while poverty among marginalized groups is just them being bad with money, and so on. This is also why affirmative action is not injustice against white people.
Re: The level of bigotry among Trump voters, I find it hard to believe that people bothered going out to vote for him without knowing anything about him (remember, almost half the eligible population stayed home), so given how hard it is not to stumble upon one of his many gems of knowledge, I have to assume that the vast majority of voters was well aware of where he stands. This leaves me with the conclusion that while many of them probably don't actively want to hurt minorities, they're willing to give power to someone who does, on the basis of an economic platform that barely exists, which in turn makes me wonder if they'd be willing to do the same with their own communities as the victims. I assume not, but I acknowledge the possiblity of some of them not being bigots but rather reckless egomaniacs.
Re: Calling spades spades, I still don't see the problem. The basis of a meaningful discussion is the truth, and open discourse requires acknowledgement of reality. If one side of the discussion is basing its argument on bigotry (ban muslims, build a wall, reinstate stop and frisk, ie make america great again) then ignoring that fact is simply irresponsible. If you think someone is being unfairly accused of bigotry, point out why the accusation is unfair or why you don't think this bigotry is a problem, but don't act like speaking about things as they actually are (or appear to be) is somehow detrimental to the conversation. If your argument is purely strategic, consider that you can just as easily make the case that these hateful views gain more traction when they're not exposed as such, so it's not like you can simply make the problem go away by not talking about it.
Funny you should say that, when Trump voters have legitimated this: https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656
Enjoy your racist, xenophobic, nazi, downhill America. This is the best way to go down as an empire and as a world power. I just feel bad for my friends there, though. A lot of people I know from the US are part of a minority and I wouldn't want a bunch of white supremacist bigots to harm them.
Your grandparents died to fight against this, and now you get a fascist president and encouraging to act like shit. Nice way to go!
Can we please try to maintain at least a semblance of objectivity here? It was this kind of hyperbolic reactionary fear-mongering that got us into this mess in the first place, and it sure as hell won't help us get out of it.
I'm objective, shit's going down and it's probably gonna get worse for you guys. I'm in the other side of the ocean so the only shit getting here will be the economical effects it will have on the rest of the world.
I'm pretty sure you have to fear white supremacist nazis with free access to guns being endorsed and legitimated by a racist rapist president, to be honest.
Okay, well, when it happens you can tell me "I told you so".
In the meantime I'm going to start trying to figure out what I can do to help fix this ass-backwards mess of a so-called democracy we've got going on, and help whip the Democratic party back into shape. At least until the white nationalist Nazi KKK death squads take me away for being a few shades too dark or whatever.
I'm Puerto Rican and gay, and the only hatred and vitriol I've gotten since Trump has announced has been from the tolerant left. I'll keep an eye out for the nazis and white supremacists, but yes I will enjoy this America. I'll eat my words once Trump causes a nuclear war or overturns gay marriage or something.
Well, that's actually in his plans. If you didn't know, his vice president wants to treat you with electroshocks to cure you of your disease! (Did you vote for that?) Just keep an eye on the Twitter moments, more and more are popping up, you could very well be the next. Either way, your personal experience is, well, just your personal experience. Where you live and your surroundings define whether you will experience that racism and homophobia more or less likely. That doesn't mean it isn't the general rule. We all know the US is heavily racist and homophobic and now they are supported and encouraged by the president.
Here in Europe we know pretty well what's fascism like. You guys think it's good to put a fascist in the white house to fight the establishment or something, but be assured that any time a fascist has seized power in Europe has resulted in either civil war, bloody genocidal dictatorship, world war II, or a combination thereof. You guys really don't understand how serious and dangerous fascism is -- and Trump is literally one. It's not only his deplorable social views (which should drive away any sane person, to be honest), but also his faulty economical views that could lead to a bankrupt country quite fast.
I STRONGLY recommend watching this documentary, it's really interesting and definitely worth your time.
In any case, gay marriage isn't going to get overturned (although the fact that you don't seem to be bothered by Pence's support of conversion shock therapy is a little weird). Nuclear war isn't necessarily likely, though the sheer lack of understanding and restraint that Trump has shown regarding nuclear weapons is something that I'm going to stay worried about because holy crap the stuff in that article is legitimately scary.
But seriously, the Nazi and white supremacist groups are absolutely real and I was pretty surprised and disgusted when I first saw that video documenting the phenomenon. Trump legitimizing all of their hatred is absolutely a serious problem because it can give all of them the confidence to act on their beliefs, so please don't write it off because "oh no the liberals were mean to me". I can only hope for my, your, and everyone's sake that you're correct in your confidence that it won't be a problem, but I'm always going to have that nagging fear that people's lives are seriously at risk.
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Neo-Nazis and white supremacists are nothing new. Oh yes, they're going to be much louder and much bolder for a couple years, but that's part of the reason why we had better start defusing this situation, unless you'd fancy trying your luck with an armed revolution against the party that owns most of the guns.
In the mean time we have very real and very immediate problems with the DNC and even the Democratic party as a whole, and as a liberal myself, I feel obligated to devote some of my time to fixing them. I don't have enough time to worry about Nazi death squads until they actually... Well... Exist.
I bet you are part of the specific demographic that has nothing to worry about the Twitter moments thing I linked above. Did you even take a look at it?
They're not new, the difference is that they now have a president that they feel agrees with them. That's kind of a big deal to them.
Either way, I think that there's nothing to do about it at all other than to just hope for the best, so I totally agree with your assessment that fixing the DNC should be the top priority right now. I already signed the petition to make Keith Ellison the new DNC chairman, and I'm fully aware going to take a political party that can make people excited to get to the polls in order to hope for any kind of change in the future elections.
Actually I'm Hispanic. I do happen to be cis, straight, and male though, so I guess I'm 3/4ths scum?
Also, can you please point me to where Trump advocated for scrawling racist shit on college dorms?
Specifically and literally? No. But if you want anything in which he is supporting violence, racism, misogyny, or xenophobia, well, there's not enough space in a single post and it's pretty freely available information for everyone. It's his Twitter account.
I really fail to understand why you don't see it as a huge problem, but up to you, I guess. I'm 100% scum (as per your post) so I have nothing to worry about!
I really fail to understand why you don't see it as a huge problem, but up to you, I guess. I'm 100% scum (as per your post) so I have nothing to worry about!
By running a successful presidential campaign on a platform of racism he essentially sent a message that racism is okay and that the general public will accept it. And that's why racists aren't afraid to do racist things the way they might have before his campaign and election. Not everything has to be direct, these are just the logical consequences of the things he's said and done for the past several months.
I'm aware of Mike Pence and his history, and I've said before that I'm not really fond of him. Obviously I'm against anything like conversion therapy but I don't think anything like that is going to happen under a Trump presidency, I guess we'll just have to see, but I'm pretty certain they aren't going to try to take away LGBT rights. I've done some research and even though the source is a bit partisan I think this article sums Mike Pence's history about this issue well. I don't see anything about him promoting shock therapy, just something about "changing sexual behaviors" 16 years ago which could be interpreted different ways, and in any case has no place here but doing that would be political suicide for them.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/10/stop-calling-mike-pence-homophobic/
http://dailycaller.com/2016/11/10/stop-calling-mike-pence-homophobic/
Cresselia~~
Junichi Masuda likes this!!
Rather, how is political correctness enforced into your minds during your education?
Is political correctness/ racial equality taught in your schools?
How is racial equality taught in your schools?
What statistics do you base them on? Or do you just believe it because it's always been taught to you?
White supremacy is still being taught in schools in most Asian countries, and it is still a mainstream believe, even after Obama became president.
Yes, Obama changed many Asian's views. But we cannot deny, that the majority of Asians from older generations still believe in white supremacy even after Obama became president.
White supremacy is often justified in history lessons, especially about World War II and Colonial History.
Many Chinese history textbooks demonize the Imperial Chinese, and laugh at their ignorance towards white technology.
And stuff like "When white people had guns, Chinese people were still using swords."
I'm interested and want to know how racial equality is taught in the USA.
How it became mainstream in American Millenials, and what statistics or argument it is based on.
that is possibly the most twisted logic of an article that I've ever read, unsurprising from an orthodox jew. In the same article that he excuses Pence's obvious homophobia, he supports the religious freedom of his own group to effectively exile women from their society.
Read this to understand how horrifying of an opinion he is putting forth here: http://nypost.com/2013/11/04/orthodox-jewish-womans-plea-for-a-divorce/
Religious freedom is an important right, to be sure, but one that predominantly consists of a right to worship and not face general persecution or forced conversion from the government. But I have no tolerance for the most orthodox of any religion, who believe their own religious beliefs do not end before the point of infringing the rights of others. Stopping people from using their religion to discriminate against others is not a violation of freedom of religion. Your religious rights end where others' rights begin.
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