Data Usage-Based Tier Update for January 2018 (Feb @ #263) (Mar @ #696)

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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
But Landorus does have a number of reliable counters, as listed a number of times in even just this thread. Also HP Ice is a 60BP move and Koko has only 95 base SpAtk, and it still has an 81.3% chance to KO.

Also ban Toxapex has been around since before Sun and Moon? Whut?
A little while before the games came out, the data was leaked and people saw that there was a Water/Poison type with Regenerator, Recover and 50/152/142 bulk, and some people said “that needs to be banned”.
 
Stuff I'd like to drop.

Mew: Come on people, there are better defensive and offensive Defoggers than Mew - Gliscor, Landorus-T, Zapdos, Latio/as - let Mew fall to UU, it'll be so much better there.

Arcanine: Why are people still using this thing? Rotom-H can run better defensive sets, while Entei, Infernape and to a lesser extent Darmanitan can run better offensive sets. Let it fall to RU - it would be really good there.

Drapion: With Mega Steelix running rampant, this thing has next to no niche. Salazzle can do offensive sets better as it's faster and more powerful; Nidoqueen can do defensive sets better as it can also set up Stealth Rock. In NU this thing was great, so just let it fall again people.

Golisopod: Lol, why do people keep using this thing? Terrible ability and badly outclassed by Durant, Feraligatr and Araquanid.

Blastoise: When you're outclassed by Donphan and Dhelmise, that's a sign to move out.

Typhlosion: There's no reason to use the burning bear over Delphox or Houndoom, other than Eruption. The amount of support it requires is just not worth it. If it fell to PU it would be amazing, possibly broken.
 
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Stuff I'd like to drop.

Drapion: With Mega Steelix running rampant, this thing has next to no niche. Salazzle can do offensive sets better as it's faster and more powerful; Nidoqueen can do defensive sets better as it can also set up Stealth Rock. In NU this thing was great, so just let it fall again people.

Blastoise: When you're outclassed by Donphan and Dhelmise, that's a sign to move out.
Low ladder RU be like:
 

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True the low RU ladder is terrible - second only to Ubers IMO. Is it that hard for people to read the analyses before plunking unviable stuff on their team?
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
FFS stop complaining. It's Pokémon
It's just aggravating to know these Pokemon could be doing so much better in a lower tier, but yet are stuck somewhere they don't belong because some people don't know how to play. In order to get the insane usage RU Donphan has, it can't just be because of young children: There are teens and adults actively using a Pokemon that is by all means terrible.
 
It's just aggravating to know these Pokemon could be doing so much better in a lower tier, but yet are stuck somewhere they don't belong because some people don't know how to play. In order to get the insane usage RU Donphan has, it can't just be because of young children: There are teens and adults actively using a Pokemon that is by all means terrible.
They obviously grew up using Donphan in multiple gens so they're attached to it. Keep in mind Donphan was like common in OU back in Gen 5 and I think early Gen 6
 
True the low RU ladder is terrible - second only to Ubers IMO. Is it that hard for people to read the analyses before plunking unviable stuff on their team?
The analyses don't say anything about any RU Pokemon being completely unviable. In fact, this is the opening sentence of Donphan's RU analysis.
Donphan is one of the few viable Rapid Spin users in the tier thanks to its great Defense and ability to easily beat the most popular spinblocker in the tier, Doublade.
 
My point is that the analysis is part of the problem, not the solution. If the analysis is old, then that's even more of a reason to treat it as unreliable.
And do you know why it's old? Because nobody can be bothered to write a new one for such a bad Pokémon. Like, Donphan was once OU in Gen 5, but that was also because of bad players. It even became a meme for some time.

Donphan may remain RU because it has SOME niche, but Blastoise and Drapion need to go, really. At least Blastoise has a decent chance of dropping with its Mega around now.

Also Ubers low ladder is indeed terrible. I only use joke teams with stuff like Arceus-Bug but I've seen people who legit think Heliolisk is good... At least usage in Ubers doesn't influence any other tiers.
 
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alephgalactus

Banned deucer.
Couldn’t someone just write an analysis saying “don’t use Donphan”? It’s been done with other Pokémon before (albeit ones far less viable).

Edit: Seconds after posting this, I realized that this idea is kinda dumb considering the analyses are supposed to be a serious look at a Pokémon’s role in the meta.
 
Couldn’t someone just write an analysis saying “don’t use Donphan”? It’s been done with other Pokémon before (albeit ones far less viable).

Edit: Seconds after posting this, I realized that this idea is kinda dumb considering the analyses are supposed to be a serious look at a Pokémon’s role in the meta.
That was Ambipom's Generation 6 RU analysis. The first set was literally named "DON'T USE AMBIPOM". I can totally, and would like to, see it happening again.
 
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One of Claydol's analyses started with "Don't use Claydol unless you really can't afford separate slots for hazard setting and removal." Deo-D's overview in Gen7 Ubers ends with "Do not use Deoxys-D". Back in Gen 5 there were tons of joke analyses (look at Castform, Delibird, and RU Metang) So it's not like it would be new.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
I think the reason they stopped is because they realized how ineffective they were. The people who use these noobtraps do not read Smogon analyses, and if they do, they'll probably say shit like "smogon lies! This mon is good!! ILL SHOW THEM!!1/"

Putting an end to the noobtrap cancer can't be done with a simple analyses or a PSA or whatever. It'll require a modification to the tiering system.

I do in fact have a proposal for a system like this I already have gotten support for, but I put it on the back burners since I saw a bunch of tours like SPL coming up, and it was kinda brash to propose a change to the system right in the middle of a major tournament. I could share it, or at least give you all run-down if you'd like.
 
And te sad thing is, only low ladder uses those unviable mons, and they work quite well low-ladder since everyone there sucks...

Then again, I'm the guy that uses Parasect in OU, so maybe I have no mouth to speak.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
And te sad thing is, only low ladder uses those unviable mons, and they work quite well low-ladder since everyone there sucks...

Then again, I'm the guy that uses Parasect in OU, so maybe I have no mouth to speak.
I mean hell, at least you're just using Parasect for fun to shake an admittedly somewhat boring tier up a bit, even if it's actually completely unviable. That's pretty different from using Donphan in RU because "it H@s RaP1d SP1n aND ROCKS SO IT OP1e"
 
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