Resource USM LC Viability Rankings

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Cautiously Optimistic
is a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus
LC Co-Leader
#1
Artwork by Schaff.


Welcome to the LC viability ranking project. In this project, we will "tier" every Pokemon based on usefulness. An initial tier list has already been made; if you think something should be moved up or down, post in this thread with your reasoning on why, and the change may be enacted, but please make sure you have a proper understanding of the current metagame before doing so. Bad/basic posts will be deleted, and repeated offenses may be punished by infraction. However, asking questions about why certain Pokemon are ranked where they are is acceptable.

Also don't nominate a Pokemon to move up more than 2 sub rankings. There are instances where this is needed, such as when a new mechanic is discovered, but usually it is not and in fact nominations of such a large jump tend to be disagreed on by the community at large.


Viability Ranking Council
For more controversial cases, the viability ranking council will vote on the Pokemon's tiering.

Shrug
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Nineage
OP
Coconut
Merritt
Zebraiken



Tier List

Without further ado, here is the tier list. The ranks in descending order, with the Pokemon in each rank ordered alphabetically.

S RANK
S

Diglett
Mienfoo
Vullaby

S-

Abra
Staryu
Timburr

A RANK
A+

Croagunk
Gastly
Onix
Foongus

A

Doduo
Ferroseed
Grimer-Alola
Pawniard
Shellder
Snivy
Snubbull

A-

Chinchou
Mudbray
Ponyta
Spritzee
Torchic


B RANK
B+

Carvanha
Corphish
Drilbur
Dwebble
Elekid
Kabuto
Magnemite
Mareanie
Pumpkaboo-Super
Rufflet
Scraggy
Slowpoke
Surskit
Wynaut

B

Archen
Bunnelby
Frillish
Munchlax
Omanyte
Pancham
Tirtouga
Vulpix-Alola
Wingull
Zigzagoon

B-

Cranidos
Cottonee
Hippopotas
Houndour
Larvesta
Magby
Salandit
Skrelp
Snover
Spinarak
Taillow
Trapinch

C RANK
C+

Amaura
Bulbasaur
Buneary
Clamperl
Koffing
Meowth
Pikipek
Pumpkaboo-Small
Riolu
Rowlet
Sandshrew-Alola
Tyrunt
Venipede

C

Anorith
Axew
Darumaka
Deerling
Dratini
Goldeen
Inkay
Lileep
Mankey
Natu
Numel
Sandile
Stufful
Sandshrew
Tentacool
Trubbish


C-

Budew
Chespin
Cubchoo
Cubone
Dewpider
Exeggcute
Fletchling
Honedge
Lickitung
Mantyke
Remoraid
Stunky
Treecko
Teddiursa


BLACKLISTED, DO NOT DISCUSS:

Nothing atm, but don't press your luck.
 
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Quote

Cautiously Optimistic
is a Global Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnus
LC Co-Leader
#2
I know it's the same as the last one at the moment, but this was mainly to distance ourselves from previous discussions in the thread and to take a new approach with the metagame, even if there aren't too many changes. Unlike OU we aren't going to include new changes but will instead leave that open and make the first changes later on. For the time being, I want to spark some discussion with some changes I'd like to see:

Aipom: B+ > A+

With the addition of Tail Slap, Aipom now has the ability to break bulkier mons with ease, doing a solid 20 damage minimum to everything that doesn't resist it. When you combine that with hazards or even some form of boost via Baton Pass Aipom becomes very difficult to stop. However, you can take solace in that most of its original checks can still handle it. Spritzee is no longer an Aipom check, but Mudbray, Larvesta, Ponyta, Kabuto, and Ghost-types can still offer themselves as options against it, which means Aipom users have to be careful about their move selection at times. Also, as a quick warning, if Aipom Tail Slaps a Ferroseed or Gible it loses 10 HP (If it has Rocky Helmet Aipom is KO'd but don't do that).


I don't feel like doing write-ups for other mons atm but I also want to see discussion about Dewpider, Mudbray, Ponyta, Snivy, Cottonee, and anything else you think should be adjusted. It's also probably time for Spinarak to go away.

Oh, and don't worry, Wingull will move up.
 
#3
I'll just throw in my thoughts then

Mudbray is A solid af SR setter and ok Aipom check ig, Raise to A or keep A- idk which cause haven't used it much but seems good enough considering it's the only SR setter that can actually beat fighting types (nice niche imo).

Dewpider is a bae setter, move up. Spinarak still fav, but move that shit down to c- (Still does better v Snivy/Foongus ig than other setters which I find a nice niche because I hate Foongus ban it please). Snivy is a thing tho, and now Defogs so yk don't move it too high.

Ponyta is fun now, can actually run a solid Eviolite set again. Z Solarbeam is better for killing shit, but being able to run that nifty Eviolite bulk while still hitting rocks/chinchou semihard is pretty decent. Doesn't net any OHKOs aside from other frail fire types, but still cool. Also no more Flare Blitz/Morning Sun rinse repeat fights with other ponys. I don't think it should drop at least, but idk if it should rise either.

Snivy is cooler now, and quite frankly a better defogger than I thought it would be. Been trying a set with no Hidden Power, and even that has actually been working quite well. Idk if it quite A+, but defiinitely solid A atm.

Cottonee didn't really get any better with Defog, Prankster Defog is pretty much the worst defog you get unless you up vs some gimmicky hazard stack. If anything it should drop, because Mudbray/Pawniard should be more common now meaning Cottonee has less switch-in opportunities.

Should Onix move down to A now that Mudbray got SR? Still nice Flying check, but fun with some competition ig
 

dcae

naughty list
#4
a few notes that i plan to expand on further as this meta develops bc there's been a lot of overuse of the new stuff and too little use of some old goats (vullaby for example):

dewpider is to me an a or a- mon. incredibly strong with decent coverage stabs, incredible special bulk, decent versatility (can go special or physical, has access to mirror coat and monster spdef), and of course gets webs. topping out at 13 spe also helps bc it can outspeed 19 speeders post webs and becomes an amazing mon under webs offensively.

mudbray is a tentative a+ mon for me but a is fine too, it really does a ton well in this meta and sr makes it worth running almost every time. i havent felt as much need for onix, so i back filles suggestion to drop it to a.

also this will be a bit controversial and annoying for myself considering i championed the current s rank set up but i think considering the way the meta has been so far (aipom x dig interactions almost every game) it's arguable that those two are the only high s rank mons. however, this assertion is probably me just jumping the gun and that foo and vulla will ramp up their dominance again, and i think that they will (lots of current builds are weak to np vulla etc). timburr is better in this meta and i think the gap between it and foo has increased, but staryu feels worse. i wouldn't be opposed to dropping staryu to a+ rank.

croagunk doesnt feel as potent. tho it gets fight prio for aipom, its kinda weak compared to timburrs mach punch, and the increase of digletts makes it a risky proposition to run. a rank instead of a+ rank sounds potentially correct, but i would like to hear more input on this one.

my biggest belief as of now is a deserved ranking up of pawniard to a+. its an amazing aipom check since most dont run brick break and has a powerful sucker that can pop aipom at half health. seeing as onix use has dropped in recent times pawns arguably the best flying check in the game (tho doduo fucks it up and thats why its seeing more usage when paired with aipom)

i think elekids gotten worse considering the newfound popularity of mudbray over onix, which makes the old staryu x onix cores relatively obsolete, and its standard moveset actually isnt very impressive calc wise against aipom:

240 SpA Life Orb Elekid Thunderbolt vs. 76 HP / 0 SpD Aipom: 17-21 (73.9 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 21)

embarrassing for elekid alas... but i still think b+ is a pretty good spot for it considering some of the real shit thats already in b+ rank lol.

last proposal is to finally have some justice for spritzee, which imo should've already been in a rank but is still fine in this meta, being one of the only mons who can really tank aipoms tail slap and also now has access to an interesting nasty plot set pairing with torchic.

pls provide input bc metas super young and i havent played everyone yet.
 
#5
I agree very much with dcae has to say about mudbray. Especially with the rise in use of aipom, and very few checks to it in the meta, defensive mudray will become one of the most reliable rockers in the tier, bumping down onix in the tiering ranking imo. I dont know if this warrants a reason to move down onix, but it for sure makes the case that mudbray could become a more consistent, and more effective, rocker in USM that onix was in SM. I honestly feel that Fille could be undermining the value of mudbray, but I think we should wait and see how mudbray compares to onix in the new meta.

Mudbray -> A or Mudbray = A

However, I think that the most important thing to note in USM is the possibility of snivy rising to A+. With webs being a pain in the ass is SuMo, there have become a couple of new ways to deal with webs in USM. I think that one of the best ways to deal with that is defog. A lot of people end up running a random 4th move on snivy because its set allows for snivy to run it that way. However, with the intro of defog snivy, I feel that snivy could run a more defensive set in USM. Something else of note is that snivy comes in very freely on onix barring the occasional explosion onix (At least for the defensive set). It can not only put on offensive pressure on the tiers most popular rocks, but also clear out whatever hazards were set up on the previous turn.

In SM the only real hazard removal was either defog vul or rs drilbur or staryu. However, only drilbur and staryu could come in on onix. Since drilbur had no source of recovery, staryu probably became the best hazard removal in SM. What makes snivy better than staryu in my opinion the larger offensive presence that it can use to threaten the opposing team when it comes in on the switch in addition to not being blocked by annoying ghost mons such as pumpkaboo.

Ultimately, I think that snivy should move up to A+ because of its variety of sets, including defensive snivy, scarf snivy, and normal offensive snivy, and its ability to clear hazards very effectively in USM because of its access to defog.

Snivy -> A+
 

Serene's Grace

I know you felt it too
is a Tiering Contributor
#6

Snivy to A+
Snivy is now the tier's best hazard remover, being able to come in cleanly on the more common rock setters like Onix or Kabuto and freely defogging on them. A key difference between Snivy and our previous hazard remover options, like Staryu, is that Snivy cannot get spinblocked. Snivy doesn't lose anything from running defog; it just stops running glare. Combine that with its 0 to 60 boosting power that forces the opponent to react, customizable coverage with Hidden Power, (Ice or ground being the conventional choices but fighting can beat Pawniard) and Snivy is very clearly an A+ pokemon.

oh yea ps z wring out or non defog sets are still p cool defog is just a major add-on
also not sold on the mudbray hype train cuz staryu and snivy still beat it but well see
 
#7

Snivy to A+
Snivy is now the tier's best hazard remover, being able to come in cleanly on the more common rock setters like Onix or Kabuto and freely defogging on them. A key difference between Snivy and our previous hazard remover options, like Staryu, is that Snivy cannot get spinblocked. Snivy doesn't lose anything from running defog; it just stops running glare. Combine that with its 0 to 60 boosting power that forces the opponent to react, customizable coverage with Hidden Power, (Ice or ground being the conventional choices but fighting can beat Pawniard) and Snivy is very clearly an A+ pokemon.

oh yea ps z wring out or non defog sets are still p cool defog is just a major add-on
also not sold on the mudbray hype train cuz staryu and snivy still beat it but well see
Did someone just agree with me :woah:
 
#8
Really like the look so far :toast:
As for noms of pokemon I have the experience to discuss personally

Pawn to A+: It's become a blanket check to scary shit again. I've really enjoyed using scarf or Evio 4 attacks on webs to pursuit frailer attackers running around like doduo and aipom. It's just a solid answer to a bunch of scary stuff while still having a big offensive presence itself. Also the new defoggers helped as Snivy can't touch it bar HP ground? Or fire? Never seen either so idk. And cottonee gets blocked due to prankster on dark type and HP fighting doesn't ko. Raise it for now.

Dewpider to A-: I can't say I've tried surskit this meta honestly but dewpider is just an incredible setter. It abuses it's own webs, bulky enough to the point where it can potentially set up webs more than once in a game, great coverage. It's what spinarak wish it was.
Also drop spinarak to unranked. Only niche I see is Snivy counter with webs but just run Snivy answers on webs. It's too unreliable.

Aipom to A+: Completely agree. Man is absurd. Aipom counterplay is slapping Diglett on every team, pivoting around to chip with potential LO/Iron Barbs, and Scarfers. If this doesn't say something about how good this thing is idk what does. It's even bulky enough to take hits from stuff it can't ohko. It also has ridiculous coverage in fire punch, knock off, seed bomb, and fake out hitting all of the normal resists right now stupid hard. Easy A+ Mon to say the least for now

Mudbray keep at A-: I love this thing so much. Similar to pawniard it's a blanket check to ridiculous stuff right now. Rocks give this thing a reason for you to put it on a team. EQ and Heavy Slam are both strong moves coming off a base 100 attack stat and hard to switch into. The issue with Mudbray is getting chipped. Evio has no recovery and juice gets used up very quickly. It's still one of the top 3 rockers we have right now.
 
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#9
New metagame, new life, they say. Despite the changes were only egg and tutor moves, this was one hell of a ride, since many Pokémon improved their viability with new moves that have given them new roles, such as Mudbray being an offensive Stealth Rock setter, Snivy being a hazard remover that is more useful than Staryu (I'd dare to say), and the most important one; Aipom upgrading its wallbreaking capabilities. After this introduction, here go my noms:

A -> A+: Reason is self-explanatory; now that it gets Defog, it has become in pretty short time one of the best hazard removers in the tier, being able to completely forgo Sticky Web teams by removing said hazard and other hazards such as Stealth Rock and Spikes, while also being the Ground-type check it has always been, and even more now with Mudbray's presence being in many teams as the Stealth Rock setter of them. Despite Pawniard is now really used due to said change, it is for sure an election pick for removing hazards.

A -> A+: Pawniard has risen from its despair to check serious Pokémon again. The current ubiquity of Snivy made it a good check on many teams, mainly Webs due to it carrying Defog, and Aipom, which can reliably switch into Tail Slap and cripple it with Sucker Punch. Being a good Stealth Rock setter, as well as a good Pursuit trapper with Defiant and good bulk are reason why it should rise.

B+ -> A/A+: Tail Slap Aipom made Fury Swipes useless, as it improved its wallbreaking capacities with a really powerful STAB attack that 2HKO many of the defensive threats of the metagame, as well as OHKOing some of them such as Bulky Mienfoo, Shellder, Timburr, and Spritzee after Stealth Rock damage. In combination with the coverage it carries, such as Brick Break, Seed Bomb or Grass Knot, Fire Punch and Fake Out, it also threatens many Normal-resistant Pokémon such as Ferroseed, Pawniard, Onix and Kabuto, to mention a few. It also can use Eviolite, which hasn't got the backfire power Life Orb has, but it helps to resist many non-effective attacks to sweep afterwards. Without no doubt, this is one of the metagame defining Pokémon in the current metagame, and with enough support, be it hazards or Sticky Web, it can clean many teams with relative ease.

A- -> A: Stealth Rock Mudbray is a really good hazard setter right now, due to its raw power with STAB Earthquake, and coverage moves such as Rock Slide, Heavy Slam and, occasionally Rock Tomb supported by a 100 base Attack stat, which is translated to an amazing 20 stat, 2HKOing many threats on the switch, and its capability of check Aipom, and it's one of the reasons Aipom carries sometimes Grass Knot, bypassing Stamina effects. It's also a decent Flying check for Scarf Doduo, which is common right now in combination of the aforementioned Aipom, as well to Gastly. In my experience with it on Web teams, I've used it as the Stealth Rock setter, and it's really good abusing them. Really worth a try if you need one hazard setter on Webs. About the Mudbray vs. Onix topic, it is pretty even, but metagame is young, as it was said in one of the posts, we need to go further to see who is better.

C- -> B+/A-: This will undoubtely be the biggest jump a Pokémon has made through the Viability Rankings after Wingull's rise. Dewpider getting Sticky Web in USM made it a really threatening Web setter, even much better than Surskit, Spinarak and Sewaddle, the other three Sticky Web users in the tier. What it makes Dewpider better than Surskit is that it boasts a really strong offensive presence with Water Bubble + a Water-type STAB, commonly Liquidation and Leech Life for restoring health. Its better bulk means that it has some defensive utility, and thus, it can act as an abuser of its own Webs with said traits. Its last move can vary in two variants: Mirror Coat and Magic Coat. I personally love the first one, as Dewpider's special bulk is high enough to pull off, being able to use an spread of 23 HP, knocking out an special sweeper, for example Croagunk, which outright walls Dewpider. The second one is a pain for hazard setters, as it can be used for deflecting them, and making Dewpider and partners' work much easier.

B- -> B: Cottonee has seen a bit of usage after getting Defog, which in combination of Prankster, it makes it able to remove hazard in first place. Though it doesn't like Dark-types such as Pawniard and Vullaby due to blocking Prankster-boosted moves, it only needs Hidden Power Fighting + Dazzling Gleam to threaten those two Pokémon, and the last move can be used on literally anything. Memento for supporting a setup sweeper, Tailwind to boost the general Speed of the team... There are useful utility moves that Cottonee can make use of, making thus being a bit viable than it was in SM.

B+ -> B/B-: With Dewpider's rise, Surskit feels kinda overshadowed by it, but it still can be a decent Web setter with its known Choice Scarf set which sets Sticky Web first in many lead matchups.

Well, I have told what I feel about this metagame right now, so, hope it develops with the time.
 
#10
Aipom to S rank: Tail slap is great, it has good coverage and very few (if any) switchins. (Edit: oh what a shock, it's now banned)
Dewpider to A rank: water bubble allows it to hit hard while it is tanky enough to take hits.
Spinarak to unranked: sorry fella your time's up
Surskit to B-: Still fast, but does nothing outside of setting webs
Spritzee to A+: Nasty Plot gives it offensive presence, which gives it variety in the sets it can run (which is an important part of being highly ranked). Spritz can now run a defensive sets or be offensive. It also just made trick room more viable as a strategy
Mudbray to A: Stealth Rock gives it more options for teambuilding; it can now run rocks, scarf, and rest talk sets very well
Onix to A: With mudbray getting rocks, I don't consider onix to be the obvious premiere rock setter. Onix is still a very good birdcheck so it should remain in A rank
Cottonee to B+: Defog gives it more options, but it isn't worthy of getting into A because dark types (particularly pawn) can just stop the defog

Ponyta to A+: With high horsepower, physical ponyta is back in business. Flame body allows pony to switch into aipom's tail slap to burn it (Aipom has a 16% chance to get off 5 t slaps without a burn). With 2 strong sets, ponyta is definitely worthy of a rise.
Grimer-alola to A-: Ponyta's high horsepower and mudbray's increased viability mean grimer-alola will suffer as these both do hefty damage, and ponyta can burn it. It only has one particularly good set, which makes it predictable (but reliable).It should still be in the As as it checks Abra and gastly, and it does well against spritzee
 
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#11
Yall were hating on Spinarak but when a diff bulky Webber comes along he's your favourite :(



Spinarak is still my bff

Edit: Also there is little reason to keep Staryu in S atm imo, the people above are right, Snivy is a better remover now so while Staryu is still fast and powerful and Spin is cool, main reason it was moved up to S tier was because it was the only good hazard remover at the time (If I remember correctly). Staryu still good tho
 
#12
^

Bad/basic posts will be deleted, and repeated offenses may be punished by infraction.​
but

Aipom to A rank, no need to support the claim when it’d just be redundant. I agree with everyone else.

Mudbray to A

Dewpider to B+

Snivy to A+

Ponyta to A

Pawniard to A+

Wingull continues to exceed in rankings ——> S- the popularity of newly buffed mons calls for a speedy, webs immune special attacker that can still efficiently deal with the meta in addition to giving all of the Pokemon mentioned above(bar aipom ties/fakeout, different variants of pawniard)an overwhelming amount of pressure.
 
#13
I agree that Dewpider should rise to B+. It's not A- material, as webs hasn't got much better with Snivy and Pawniard being common and birds still being problematic, especially Weak Armor Vullaby.

Surskit should probably drop to B with Dewpider being more useful for many teams and Focus Sash Surskit not setting webs as easily with Aipom everywhere, but I don't think it should go any lower because there are still webs teams that appreciate its ability to more reliably set webs turn 1.

Wingull definitely deserves a rise, but S- is way too high. Yes, it becomes a bit better with all the Mudbray, Snivy, and Dewpider about, but it still has problems that make it far from the level of Abra, Staryu, and Timburr. A big issue is its lack of versatility, only being able to be used as a glass cannon. It has slight variation in items and filler moves, but aside from that, you know exactly what Wingull is going to be doing turn 1. Its Stealth Rock weakness limits how frequently it can switch into battle, which is troublesome for an offensive Pokemon that wants to be coming in from pivot moves or to revenge kill often. Also, Pawniard is now extremely common and is an excellent counter to Wingull. Hurricane can be unreliable, even if its low accuracy can be slightly mitigated by Flyinium Z. Compared to Abra, the S- rank Pokemon most comparable to Wingull, it has less move options, more reliable counters (Chinchou, Ferroseed, Pawniard, Alolan Grimer, etc.), and very little defensive utility (Abra can survive almost any hit it likes with Focus Sash).
However, I do think that Wingull is worthy of a rise. Its amazing offensive typing is very useful, so A- seems appropriate.
 
#14
Agree heavily with:

Pawniard: A to A+

Snivy: A to A+

Aipom to A+

Mudbray to A

Dewpider to A-

for reasons already stated by people above.

Some noms I wanna make which people have already mentioned but I want to go into more detail are:

Ponyta: A- to A

I feel like pony has gotten better with the start of usm. High horsepower is a cool coverage move capable of hitting onix, kabuto, omanyte, mareanie, opposing ponyta and chic etc for good damage. More importantly, I feel like the versatility of sets it can run plus the 19 speed make it really useful. The bulkier physically defensive set is useful for baiting burns on aipom, making it much less of a threat, while allowing you to check other big threats like the usual snivy set (less fear of glare now due to defog), spritzee, can bait pawn burn. Even with dig being on essentially every team, with flame charge, pony can avoid being trapped by dig. More offensively orientated sets like grassium and firium sunny day have the potential to demolish common usm builds centred around dig and aipom (lo fake out does a lot tho).
Overall, with the versatility of sets it can run, each providing different things for teams (defensive checking, offensive wallbreaking/sweeping) and being able to avoid being trapped by dig with speed boosting moves, it's solid.

Staryu: Low S to A+

dcae already made this suggestion and I agree with it. Defensive staryu faces heavy competition from defog snivy but I feel like snivy offers more in the current meta. Snivy is a better ground switchin, is a massive problem for webs, and can run a variety of sets from a customisable hidden power to z wring out. Defensive staryu now faces heavy competition as one of the best hazard removers. Snivy also pressures common rockers more, since switchins get worn down easily when taking leaf storms. Offensive staryu still has no solid switchins, life orb is a beast but, with dig on every team, offensive staryu and lo staryu is usually limited to one kill before it is revenged, which heavily limits its potential. Overall, I don't think it's as good as it was last gen.

Torchic: A- to A

Torchic still demolishes teams at preview and still is an absolute pain to play against. Offensive demolishes these common aipom and dig cores and there aren't many viable switchins that can consistently switch into lo or firium torchic. Mareanie is probably the best torchic counter, since it can haze speed boosts, but mareanie suffers from dig being on almost every team. Torchic also benefits from new speed and potentially other stat recipients such as aipom and np spritzee, so there's more possibilities and varieties in terms of bp experimentation. The metagame trend of ponyta preferring to run flame body is also pretty huge for torchic, as it can now fb freely without having to worry about giving ponyta the extra fifty percent damage. Overall, it alone can decimate teams lacking strong non-fake out prio or very sturdy fire switchins which tank hp grass but, with the ability to pass speed and more to the same recipients in sm and a few more in usm, it's definitely better than A- imo.
 
#15
aipom should be A+ and so should snivy imo. maybe aipom should be the only S rank along with diglett but cannot make a judgment this early on

in addition mudbray should be a but a case can be made for a+. very good rocks setter + bj/evio check aipom which is a good trait to have rn. actually a+ is probably better for it.

i think pawniard should also move up to A+ and croagunk should move down a subrank. move torchic up to A, its speed boosting shenanigans are better with the sort of kill-or-be-killed approach this metagame encourages

Edit: apparently kabuto is in the same rank as dwebble? It could stand to be at the very least A- considering it's consistently good and used by top players and its role hasn't changed much (priority is excellent to have in the current meta)
 
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#16
Aipom B+ -> A+
Mudbray A- -> A+
Snivy A -> A+
I didn't spend time playing usum lc, but imo mudbray and aipom should raise to A+ since the first one is one of the best sr setter and wallbreaker/ tank actually and it's able to check aipom; the second one has now the best stab, so its damages are too much as well as its speed. The third one is now one the best hazard remove since all sr setters (except pawniard) are grass weak (onix, mudbray, kabuto, omanyte...)
 
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#17
Shellder A -> A+

If Shellder gets one Shell Smash off its faster then almost everything.
Combined with Skill Link it can use:
Icicle Spear and Rock Blast to counter most threats like Onix and Abra.
It is probably not gonna be faster than a Diglett and thats why you can use a Focus Sash.

But i mean what do i know this is just my opinion.
 
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#18
Idk if this nom was made yet buuut...

A+ --> A
While onix is still a great poke,it kinda suffers with Muddy's raise which walls it very well(plus the things that he had competition before),actually A fits well for him in the moment imo
Also supporting most noms mainly mudbray's one(Muddy is a incredible mon since SM tbh)
 
#19
Ok so imo

Aipom -> A/A+
Everybody is thinking Aipom got better so let's move on to something more interesting. I also agree to:

Pawniard -> A+

Staryu -> A+
Staryu is great as a spinner against normal teams, but is kinda bad when you need him the most: with webs. Since web teams run a spin blocker and Staryu usually runs only one coverage move between tb/ib/psy, it can be useless if you are prepared for the wrong guy between pumpy and frillish. Staryu is still great, but Snivy got more reliable as a remover so I think we'll see the latter more and the first less in the future.

Dewpider -> B/B+
Surskit -> B/B-
Spinarak -> C+/C/C-

With Snivy getting defog, web teams will get probably less common. Since Dewpider is better than Surskit overall, it should go to its place. Surskit should be moved down a tier or two and so Spinarak. It prolly sound as if I'm contraddicting myself by saying that Staryu should move down cos it's bad against webs and that webs will be worse, but I think it makes sense cos now Staryu is no more the only mon higher than A- with access to hazard removal and not suffering rocks.

Trubbish -> B-
Yes, I'm serious. Sticky hold+recycle+curse+drain punch is good. The poison type allows him to enter and set up on fight types. It's not that easy to set due Abra revenge killing him without any mercy and the ground weakness but know what?
236 Atk Life Orb Diglett Earthquake vs. +2 196 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 18-23 (75 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's stoppable, as Abra and ground types are so common, but it should moved up a tier or two due to the fact that one should pay him attention during the match to not let him setup and to not lose his check before taking him down.
 
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#20
Trubbish -> B-
Yes, I'm serious. Sticky hold+recycle+curse+drain punch is good. The poison type allows him to enter and set up on fight types. It's not that easy to set due Abra revenge killing him without any mercy and the ground weakness but know what?
236 Atk Life Orb Diglett Earthquake vs. +2 196 HP / 100 Def Trubbish: 18-23 (75 - 95.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's stoppable, as Abra and ground types are so common, but it should moved up a tier or two due to the fact that one should pay him attention during the match to not let him setup and to not lose his check before taking him down.
I agree with this nomination, but I think B- is too high for a Pokémon whose niche is pretty specific. I think it should be ranked in C+ and for the next reasons, which are different than you stated (though the reasoning should be always about what does the Pokémon to be deserving of the rank and not about how to play around it):

With the recent rise in usage in Pawniard and Snivy, Trubbish has become better, being able to prey on teams whose hazard removal is Snivy and rely on Pawniard to keep Snivy in check, thus making hazard stacking teams with it a bit better than they were in SM. Its defensive utility in Spikes stacking and Berry Juice + Sticky Hold + Recycle allows it to maintain its defensive utility, as well as keep checking the very common Fighting-types such as Mienfoo, Timburr and Croagunk, and Fairy-types such as Snubbull and Spritzee. Though the commonality of Diglett and Mudbray hurts it, as it is a important piece in its archetype, it can be paired with the hazard control core of Pumpkaboo and Pawniard, which Trubbish benefits from keeping any type of hazard removal apart, and checking Ground-types and Aipom and Flying-types, respectively.
 
#21
Having used Trubbish a lot in my teams, I don't think it should rise. It is frequently mentioned as a fighting type check as a rise for viability but Trubbish really only checks Mienfoo. The standard 17 spd trubbish flat out loses to Bulk Up Timburr, and any sort of NP Croagunk wins as well (haven't run into many Bulk up ones, but i'd imagine they would win as well). It also falls flat on its face in front of Scraggy.

Drain Punch also doesn't OHKO Pawn without hazards (lol) so you actually lose if you come in on a SD.

Spritzee can also use offensive sets now, which are usually carrying Psychic, meaning it can be unreliable as well. For spikes I would rather use Dweeble which puts more pressure on teams and can be used as a shoddy / backup / not very good check to aipom or even wimpod which is faster and can carry mometum. Hell even Shelmet has baton pass, spikes, and recovery and it's not even ranked. HP Flying/Psychic can always work on it

Honestly I just thought about dropping spikes all together and using giga drain so you can actually do damage to an incoming onix or mudbray (more so onix).
 
#22
Well since Aipom is gone, here's some more noms:

Staryu to A+: Staryu is the still the best spinner in the tier but defog is much more popular, particularly with snivy getting access. It still deserves to be in a high rank as it has a few viable sets such as the life orb set which give it the flexibility to fit on different teams

Dewpider to A: Dewpider is like Surskit but better, because it is useful outside of setting webs. It may be slow, but it's bulky which allows it to take hits. It then packs a punch with liquidation+surf (180 base power) or liquidation (170BP) and it has the stats to run a physical or special set. This means Dewpider can be useful in battle without having to set webs. With Aipom gone, the biggest check to Dewpider is (Taunt) Onix's rock blast, which has to hit 4 times (i think) to KO - 33% * 90% accuracy = 30% to KO

Otherwise the noms in my previous post still stand
Spinarak to unranked
Surskit to B-
Spritzee to A+
Mudbray to A
Onix to A
Cottonee to B+
Ponyta to A+
Grimer-alola to A-
 
#23
On Dewpider:

I think it should move probably to B+, but not to A rank. To get into A rank I feel Dewpider needs to be used not just for sticky web but as a pokemon itself, and while it may be more useable on its own than Surskit and Spinarak, Dewpider was still chilling in C- at the end of SM.

I feel it still competes with Surskit on some teams because Choice Scarf Surskit is something Dewpider can't do, so it really isn't that dominate in its role. I feel like Dewpider is a (mostly) worse Corphish without sticky web involved. Sure it might hit harder with water STAB and can go "mixed", but Dewpider has no coverage while Corphish has Superpower and Knock Off which are situationally good moves that don't hit like a wet noodle like Leech Life does. However Corphish also has aqua jet which means it can do something against faster foes, which is the biggest reason Corp is mostly better.

TLDR: Dewpider improved, but doesn't belong in A because you don't think to yourself "I really want a strong water type on my team, so let me pick Dewpider who also gets sticky web" you are more likely to say "Dewpider has sticky web and fits this team better with stronger STAB than Surskit, so let me pick this"

A good comparison would be Torchic, which is in A-. You can use it purely for speed support for another pokemon or you can go all out with Life Orb / Z-move and baton pass is an afterthought.


My own nomination is Larvesta to B rank

I use this thing a lot on my teams and it honestly carries SO much weight if you can get stealth rock off the field. With so many good / reliable defoggers around, this is not hard in this meta. Additionally, because Snivy is more popular as a defogger, Staryu has taken a hit in usage which is Larvesta's main check in SM. Not to mention 16 Def Larvesta walks all over Pawniard and can hold its own against opposing Snivy as well. It is also a fairy resist that isn't weak to Psychic/Eathquake, which is always good with offensive Spritzee and Sub Snubbul rising. Most of the checks to it, such as Dig, Kabuto, Chinchou, and Shellder either fear burn or are just U-tun'd on, meaning it can be a slippery pokemon to catch. You can also make it have a slow U-turn to support breakers like Corphish, Bunny, LO staryu, etc.


EDIT:

I also think Drilbur should drop to at least B- rank if not C+

I am having a hard time seeing why anyone would use Drilbur on a team now. Onix was already giving it a run for its money in SM and now mudbray comes along and probably has closed the coffin for Drilbur. I find literally zero reason why you would use this on a team. It can't spin on any hazard setter, it can't even OHKO Onix through sturdy, and it is either not bulky enough or not strong enough most of the time I use it. God forbid if you want to use it for both stealth rock and rapid spin because that is definitely not happening in this meta and even then Kabuto has your back.

It might still have a niche as a Sand Rush pokemon, but even hippo is kinda outclassed by Mudbray itself too now. Choice Scarf Drilbur might still be a thing but I never really liked Scarf Earthquakes to begin with.
 
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#24
I read the replies to Trubbish's nomination and I must convey that proposing B- was probably a bit too enthusiastic of me. However I'm still convinced that, with access to curse, the trashbag must be looked at with different eyes in team preview. The setupping of curse is very situational but can be troublesome. It's not that you have to keep that much of attention to it as you would put to Ziggy or Clampy ofc, as they are high risk but can screw you in one turn if you mess up, but still it's something that one should be wary of. Said this, viability rankings go also by usage iiur, and I don't think we'll ever see a increase in the usage of Trubbish, so I'm not taking back the nomination (maybe suggesting C+ this time) but I'm not gonna insist either. Just wanted to share this thougth on the meta.
 
#25
I also think Drilbur should drop to at least B- rank if not C+

I am having a hard time seeing why anyone would use Drilbur on a team now. Onix was already giving it a run for its money in SM and now mudbray comes along and probably has closed the coffin for Drilbur. I find literally zero reason why you would use this on a team. It can't spin on any hazard setter, it can't even OHKO Onix through sturdy, and it is either not bulky enough or not strong enough most of the time I use it. God forbid if you want to use it for both stealth rock and rapid spin because that is definitely not happening in this meta and even then Kabuto has your back.

It might still have a niche as a Sand Rush pokemon, but even hippo is kinda outclassed by Mudbray itself too now. Choice Scarf Drilbur might still be a thing but I never really liked Scarf Earthquakes to begin with.
Reasons to leave drilbur as it is:
It competes with kabuto for being the best spin-rocker: role compression is very useful.
It has some good coverage moves, including shadow claw to hit spinblockers and rock slide for birds that try to switch into an earthquake.
It has 85 attack, which allows it to hit 19 attack fully invested, so it can run all-out attack or spin-rock sets.
Mold Breaker allows it to hit through sturdy, making it a great onix anti-lead, and it can also hit through gastly's levitate and KO.

Another nomination: Deerling C to B-
I feel that Deerling getting headbutt has gone under the radar somewhat. It can now run serene grace with headbutt having a 60% chance of causing a flinch. It hits the 18 speed tier, so it can outspeed much of the meta. It has reasonable coverage with headbutt, jump kick, seed bomb, wild charge and bounce (60% chance paralysis, and also a very powerful z-move). If run with eviolite, it can make use of synthesis to heal off damage and make the most of it's good defensive stats (better than Mienfoo), and it can use thunder wave to hamper opponents.
Its limitations are the it only reaches 16 attack, or 15 with jolly. This means its headbutt isn't especially powerful - for example it only 3HKOs Alolan-Grimer with good rolls. It also has a hard time with ghosts - particularly Pumpkaboo, which resists its attacks except bounce (which it can just switch out of). It also introduces a lot of luck into the game, in the form of paralysis and flinches which may make it unpopular. It should escape the C rank with this new buff.

Edit: I'm not even considering the sap sipper ability in this nomination
 
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