USM RU - Speculation & Discussion

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Trace

Light of Hope
is a Tiering Contributor
#26
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 334-394 (91.7 - 108.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Stomping Tantrum vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 410-484 (133.9 - 158.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Stomping Tantrum vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Steelix-Mega: 226-268 (63.8 - 75.7%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes

Yeah, gaining Stomping Tantrum means that three of the most reliable ways to beat a boosted Linoone can now lose to it. Tyrantrum can still beat it if it's scarfed and either goes for Head Smash or if Linoone has prior damage, and Megalix can put a huge dent in Linoone or phaze it, but until now they were hard stops to Linoone. Additionally, it now gets Throat Chop which provides a slight damage increase over Shadow Claw, but ultimately that's only relevant for one thing. However, that one thing is Doublade.

+6 252+ Atk Linoone Throat Chop vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 238-282 (73.9 - 87.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
+6 252+ Atk Linoone Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 210-248 (65.2 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

I'd say that replacing Shadow Claw with Stomping Tantrum is probably going to be the way to go, but Throat Chop is still nice to think about. Seed Bomb is too important for the likes of Quagsire, physically defensive / statused Milotic, and Bewear to give up, and losing Shadow Claw only really means Decidueye is a bit more annoying, but even that is 2HKOed by Seed Bomb. Even Mega Banette still loses, as you can just use Extreme Speed to activate Tantrum's bonus damage to OHKO through burn / dodge Destiny Bond. One thing to note though is that replacing Shadow Claw means you lose to Dhelmise, but I think that's a sacrifice worth making.

Ultimately, I'd say this set is probably going to be the most optimal going forward.

Linoone @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 120 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Seed Bomb
- Stomping Tantrum

120 Speed EVs creeps Jolly Tyrantrum by one point while also coincidentally beating +Speed Hoopa and Decidueye. 132 HP maximises health while keeping it an even number for Figy Berry, and the remaining EVs go into SpD just in case of Download Porygon2, even though it doesn't matter on account of P2 being a hard counter.

Will Linoone be that better going forward? Absolutely yes, but it won't be as big an improvement as one might think. Gaining these new tools to beat its previous checks and counters is fantastic, but the loss of a reliable Memento user in Zoroark is a huge blow considering how much trouble Linoone can have with setting up, and all the new ways to keep hazards off the field will make it that much harder to get sweeps off. Still, I think Linoone will see quite an improvement.
I don't really think the calcs with hazards will be really valid with the amount of removal we get on USUM, can't deny that linoone will improve a lot though
 

Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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#27
Even Mega Banette still loses, as you can just use Extreme Speed to activate Tantrum's bonus damage to OHKO through burn / dodge Destiny Bond.
Just want to point out that this is not how you think it works; using Tantrum to OHKO on the turn after Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond will STILL KO Linoone, as Destiny Bond stays active until Mega Banette uses its next move. This is no different from simply using Shadow Claw to KO afterwards.

However, since Extreme Speed doesn't affect Banette, Banette can just keep alternating between Prankster Destiny Bond and a slower attack to keep Linoone under lockdown; it remains one of the tier's only true remaining checks to Linoone.
 

avocado

queen vados
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#31
Compiled a quick list (cuz im bored) of relevant mons with changes that should probably be added to OP

Kommo-o: Close Combat, Clangerous Soulblaze*, Stealth Rock, Ice/Fire/Thunder Punch
Linoone: Throat Chop, Stamping Tantrum
Rotom-C: Defog
Sigilyph: Defog
Gligar: Defog + Immunity
Florges: Defog
Comfey: Defog
Whimsicott: Defog
Feraligatr: Liquidation
Cloyster: Liquidation
Decidueye: Shadow Sneak, Leaf Storm
Lycanroc-Dusk: Tough Claws, 117 Attack, 110 Speed, Sucker Punch, Drill Run, Zen Headbutt, 190 bp z-stone edge
Vileplume: Strength Sap
Necrozma: Signal Beam, Earth Power, Heat Wave, Photon Geyser, Knock Off
Bewear: Drain Punch
Ribombee: Sticky Web
Araquanid: Sticky Web
Slurpuff: Sticky Web
Tsareena: Power Whip, Knock Off



*z-move from clanging scales, +1 to all stats (like z-celebrate) while dealing damage with 185 base power
 
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#32
Um, this is probably a stupid set that's hopelessly outclassed, but ever since Bewear was released I was hoping it would get Drain Punch so it could run an Assault Vest set. Do you think something like this would be viable?

Bewear @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake / Shadow Claw

Basically, the idea is similar to the Choice Band set on the Strategy Pokedex, but it trades some power for durability. Hopefully this works!
 
#33
Um, this is probably a stupid set that's hopelessly outclassed, but ever since Bewear was released I was hoping it would get Drain Punch so it could run an Assault Vest set. Do you think something like this would be viable?

Bewear @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake / Shadow Claw

Basically, the idea is similar to the Choice Band set on the Strategy Pokedex, but it trades some power for durability. Hopefully this works!
Running max Speed on this seems kinda pointless to me IMO. You're better off investing in HP or Special Defense. But the moveset is heat
 
#35
Um, this is probably a stupid set that's hopelessly outclassed, but ever since Bewear was released I was hoping it would get Drain Punch so it could run an Assault Vest set. Do you think something like this would be viable?

Bewear @ Assault Vest
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Return
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake / Shadow Claw

Basically, the idea is similar to the Choice Band set on the Strategy Pokedex, but it trades some power for durability. Hopefully this works!
It will not work. Random AV mons have never been good, and never will be. Slapping an AV on a wallbreaker only acts as a liability, as you lose out on a lot of power. AV Bewear is not able to break defensive cores, nor does it blanket check a lot of big special attackers defensively. To answer your initial question: yes, it will indeed be outclassed by better sets. It will not be viable. SD will likely be the primary set in USUM, just like in SM. Drain Punch might be ran on it though, we'll have to wait and see. Sub SD/BU sets will probably run it at least (but fuck those tbh, inferior sets).
 
#36
Just want to point out that this is not how you think it works; using Tantrum to OHKO on the turn after Mega Banette uses Destiny Bond will STILL KO Linoone, as Destiny Bond stays active until Mega Banette uses its next move. This is no different from simply using Shadow Claw to KO afterwards.

However, since Extreme Speed doesn't affect Banette, Banette can just keep alternating between Prankster Destiny Bond and a slower attack to keep Linoone under lockdown; it remains one of the tier's only true remaining checks to Linoone.
Yeah that was a bit of an oopsie on my part, I had a brain fart and thought Mega Banette would outspeed Linoone, though actually looking at the numbers Banette would have to be basically max speed + Jolly to do so.
 
#37
Since its Z move is most likely being banned I was thinking about what was possible to do with Kommo-o and an Offensive SR seems cool (though I doubt it is staying).

Kommo-o @ Life Orb
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
This is so powerful, can beat most of our hazard control (can beat Defensive Cryo but if its slower Freeze Dry does so much at -1, also Psychium Z RotomC would be an issue).
Ice Punch 2HKOes any Gligar spread, the last slot could be Flamethrower (with Naive) to 2HKO Doublade, EQ KOes Queen after Rocks most of the time and does more than 0 to Doublade while PJab is an option that helps with Tsareena (CC 2HKOes Max Def if it gets Poisoned) and 2HKO our Defog Fairies if they manage to become good defoggers but I don't think they will. Ofc there's DD, Specs, maybe even Band could be a set lol idk but I really like how Offensive SR Kommo-o sounds.
252 Atk Life Orb Kommo-o Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 177-213 (52.9 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tsareena: 165-196 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tsareena: 165-196 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Kommo-o Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Mow: 214-253 (88.7 - 104.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Florges: 187-221 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Kommo-o Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Comfey: 164-195 (53.5 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery (why is that still the calc)
252 Atk Life Orb Kommo-o Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 283-335 (88.1 - 104.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Life Orb Kommo-o Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 96 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 169-200 (52.4 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


And about hazard control, finally it seems like we'll be ok about it:
Very strong, I see so much potencial on Defog Rotom-C even though it doesn't make sense that it got that move tbh lol.
Sigilyph seems so good, Magic Guard Defog is actually nice and its very powerful.
+Immunity Lol now it can't be 1v1d by Regi and Zong that's literally disgusting and nice at the same time.
Now it can't be spinblocked (well actually it can but not Defog blocked) and imo that makes Cryo really better than it was before.
+Knock Off and Power Whip Knock is so great, now it can punish Doublade for spinblocking, and a stronger STAB is never bad, right? Not going to be a great mon Ig but enough to make it viable and probably a solid B at least.
It's annoying that Fairy-types actually lose to Regi, Queen, Bronzong, and Mega-Lix and therefore I don't think they'll be good but we never know right, Whimsicott in particular is cool with Prankster Defog (tho it's a 50/50 against most Dark-types and can't Defog against Umbreon) but I doubt it is enough for it to go to B mainly when it still loses to the most common Rockers. Rotom-Heat is weak to rocks with no recovery besides unreliable Pain Split which I think is very bad for a defogger to have and therefore I don't think it will be good but Idk, it beats Mega Steelix and Bronzong so that's a thing.
 
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#38
at the people saying whimsicott cant defog against dark types:

Whimsicott @ Fairium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Defog
- filler
- filler

despite having a horrid special attack, thanks to being a fairy type, it can still mostly muscle past the tiers relevant dark types who are immune to defog. drapion and umby, however, give it trouble. now with fairium z equipped it can blast through them as well, so it can freely defog at will. you can run max speed with timid to outspeed sneasel but its a pretty uncommon mon anyways and makes whimsi pretty weak. the evs are for maximizing damage output and to outspeed swords dance drapion to nuke it with twinkle tackle.

moonblast & z moonblast calcs:

252+ SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 266-314 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 48.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Honchkrow: 408-480 (119.6 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pangoro: 640-756 (192.7 - 227.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 280-331 (99.6 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 153-181 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 306-362 (121.9 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
#39


Tsareena @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Splash
- Power Whip
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off

Z Splash is much more threatening now it gets a stronger STAB in Power Whip. With Sticky Web down it outurns the unboosted grounded metagame. Even without, it's a solid wallbreaker. Power Whip is the STAB, High Jump Kick hurts Steel-types while Knock Off hits Doublade and Psychic types. This thing can at worst 2KHO the entire metagame at +3 - thanks to STAB Power Whip, even Quagsire and Pyukamuku can't stop it. It can even muscle through Chesnaught that lack Spiky Shield.

+3 252 Atk Tsareena Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 234-276 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 424-501 (107.6 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 468-552 (128.5 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Unaware Pyukumuku: 228-270 (72.6 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 209-247 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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#40
at the people saying whimsicott cant defog against dark types:

Whimsicott @ Fairium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Defog
- filler
- filler

despite having a horrid special attack, thanks to being a fairy type, it can still mostly muscle past the tiers relevant dark types who are immune to defog. drapion and umby, however, give it trouble. now with fairium z equipped it can blast through them as well, so it can freely defog at will. you can run max speed with timid to outspeed sneasel but its a pretty uncommon mon anyways and makes whimsi pretty weak. the evs are for maximizing damage output and to outspeed swords dance drapion to nuke it with twinkle tackle.

moonblast & z moonblast calcs:

252+ SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 266-314 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 48.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Honchkrow: 408-480 (119.6 - 140.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Pangoro: 640-756 (192.7 - 227.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Whimsicott Twinkle Tackle (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 280-331 (99.6 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Drapion: 153-181 (54.4 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ SpA Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Sneasel: 306-362 (121.9 - 144.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I thought about that, assuming you use Encore to help against Rockers it can work, however as I said Whimsicott already beats any Dark-type in the tier besides Umbreon, its just a 50/50, and a Z against Umbreon is always risky, its probably gonna be a set but I'd just run Rotom-C most of the time tbh, at least Whimsicott beats Kommo-o so thats a thing but loses hard to almost any other Rocker.



Tsareena @ Normalium Z
Ability: Queenly Majesty
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
- Splash
- Power Whip
- High Jump Kick
- Knock Off

Z Splash is much more threatening now it gets a stronger STAB in Power Whip. With Sticky Web down it outurns the unboosted grounded metagame. Even without, it's a solid wallbreaker. Power Whip is the STAB, High Jump Kick hurts Steel-types while Knock Off hits Doublade and Psychic types. This thing can at worst 2KHO the entire metagame at +3 - thanks to STAB Power Whip, even Quagsire and Pyukamuku can't stop it. It can even muscle through Chesnaught that lack Spiky Shield.

+3 252 Atk Tsareena Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 234-276 (72.6 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 424-501 (107.6 - 127.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 216-255 (64.6 - 76.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Registeel: 468-552 (128.5 - 151.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Tsareena Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Unaware Pyukumuku: 228-270 (72.6 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 Atk Tsareena High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 209-247 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sounds funny but why that > Decidueye tho? I guess you're better against Umbreon (and its a 50/50 to don't lose 50%) but Decidueye don't need a 50/50 against Regi and beats Chester much more easily
 
#41
Hits much harder than Decidueye, isn't weak to Ice Shard and Sucker Punch thanks to Queenly Majesty, as I showed you can OHKO Umbreon with Power Whip (physically defensive Umbreon sucks) so you don't need to 50/50 it. But yeah the owl is still probably better overall.
 
#42
Hits much harder than Decidueye, isn't weak to Ice Shard and Sucker Punch thanks to Queenly Majesty, as I showed you can OHKO Umbreon with Power Whip (physically defensive Umbreon sucks) so you don't need to 50/50 it. But yeah the owl is still probably better overall.
Oh that was Power Whip calc my b
But yh...imo Tsareena's niche will be Spinning, otherwise Decid seems much better overall
 

phantom

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RU Co-Leader
#43
One of the more standout improvements and one of the mons I expect to see get a massive surge in usage is Necrozma. It goes from unviable to a potential staple with all the new moves, notably Heat Wave and Photon Geyser (its base form does indeed get this). I don't think it'll be close to broken, but it should be very good. Stealth Rock sets in particular can beat just about every new and old hazard remover in the tier, while having great bulk, good offensive presence and decent Speed, kinda like Nidoqueen. STAB / Heat Wave / Power Gem / Stealth Rock with max speed/spa seems pretty solid, with Power Gem beating Sigi/Xatu, but I can see a whole bunch of stuff like Knock Off working there too.

Swords Dance Necrozma was brought up in the RU discord and it actually seems pretty good now that it has a decent STAB. The nice part about Photon Geyser, aside from being either physical or special, is that it always hits on the special side, so Necrozma won't have issues running past physical walls like Gligar and Quagsire. SD / Photon Geyser / Earthquake / X-Scissor seems like it gets the best coverage. I could see any Z move for its coverage options working since they all help it get a bunch of important KOs at +2: Buginium to KO Umbreon/Cress, Psychium to KO Milotic/Porygon2, or Groundium to KO Steelix/Doublade.

Defog Sigilyph and Defog Immunity Gligar will be the top hazard removers. Sigilyph does so much in a single slot, between absorbing status, scalds, and checking Fighting-types, I expect it to be one of the more common glue mons in the tier. Immunity Gligar changes a lot. A lot of mons that are normally dependent on Toxic to overpower Gligar might try and use different moves now. Not to say they used Toxic exclusively for Gligar, but it was a good reason to. Rhyperior would be better off using Ice Punch for instance, and with Knock Off support, Ice Fang on Mega Steelix doesn't seem totally bad if you really want to keep rocks up. Kinda sucks that SR Mudsdale, which otherwise would have been good, doesn't seem appealing anymore since it can't scratch Gligar.

Tsareena still seems a bit difficult to fit on teams, but it should be a solid mon now. Checking SD Mega Abomasnow, Linoone, while having the capability to threaten nearly every Stealth Rock user and check Zygarde for offense will likely give it a good niche, especially since it's the only good spinner. Rotom-C seems good as a Defog user as well, especially with how well it deals with Steelix, while threatening Nidoqueen and Necrozma with Z-Leaf Storm. I expect a lot of passive hazard setters to take a significant dip in SM, specifically Chesnaught and Registeel which become much easier to deal with. Aside from this, I think offensive Spikers will remain good, particularly Mega Glalie and Froslass since they have the means to threaten or stop every form of hazard removal still.
 
#44
May as well post smth since I have some time in this busy week

So this gen has been fairly interesting for RU overall. The meta was obviously not what I expected it to be back in the hype days of SM itself and with USUM coming out in two days, I mainly hope for a meta with diverse options for builders, being an avid builder of course. The struggles of building back in Alpha and Beta still haunt me to this day so I just hope USUM does not follow SM in this aspect, the early stages at least. Looking at what we are receiving, at first glance, it seems to remedy a prominent issue that the current meta has: The prominence of hazards, and in the same vein lack of removal. So the main premise of this post will be on this aspect.


Removers:
So lets talk about the removers. Gligar being allowed to run defog + immunity is something I and of course many other people have desired for a while so I won't talk to much about that since its significance is obvious. The first remover I want to talk about is Rotom-C. I have played a couple of theoretical test games, which means we obviously cannot predict the meta but make teams based on assumptions, with the individuals The Wall, Ov3r Mac3 and Rider, so shout outs to them, and the first mon I wanted to try out was Rotom-C. This mon immediately appealed to me since it appeared to heavily pressure the cookie cutter Mega lix + bulky water core. On my team, I utilised a Grassium Z Rotom with defog and from my personal experience I don't believe Rotom will serve as a good offensive defogger. Sure you are able to pressure most rockers in Lix, Queen and Necrozma but how often will you find yourself not wanting to grab momentum or fire off a strong attack. It doesn't want to come in on the aforementioned rockers since Necrozma and Nidoqueen can heavily weaken it, if not outright take it out, and Mega Lix can cripple it with toxic, which, in conjunction with the hazards it intends to remove, wears it down which limits its ability as a consistent pivot. Next is Sigi which I do have a bit more of positive opinion on; defog + magic guard is a beautiful thing. It avoids one of the main issues I have with Rotom-C in that it cannot sereve as a consistent fogger which is of course supported by Sigi's access to reliable recovery. Furthermore, while I did claim that I disliked the fact that Rotom-C couldn't come in on common rockers, this isn't the problem with Sigi as magic guard allows it to come in later on in the match much easier along and actually be able to defog due to being far from a passive mon and forcing out common fighting and poison types. Cryo is an interesting case since it no longer needs to worry about about being blocked and is the only removal capable of reliably taking on Nidoqueen. With access to relaible recovery and utility in knock off, I can definitely see it fitting on specific builds. Last "Notable" defogger: Tsareena. I honestly have no idea what to say. Knock is cool. Power whip is cool. The tier is filled with amazing grass types so it may find trouble in that department and it does have a case of 4mss so until I actually get around to using it, I don't feel qualified to talk about it.

Florg, whimsi and comfey all seem niche but I guess panic whimsi will be the most preferred. Don't even get me started on Rotom-H...


Spikers:
Since I don't want to make this post too big, *cough cough Ajna*, I wanna discuss the question "is hazard stack dead?". The short answer is "NANI!?". Even with all these removers, some spikers stand out due to being them rather than purely there access to spikes. With that being said, of course more viable removal hurts but I can definitely see these mons adapting. I think naught will assume a more defensive role rather than a fast taunter since it would allow it to take on what may be an impending threat in Linoone, though this is purely speculation and Linoone may be garbage lol. Roserade's versatility and potent offences would most certainly be appreciated by any team. Glaile is looking to be amazing since it pressures and takes on almost all of the new removal so that is something I really excited for. Qwilfish has been growing in popularity latley but I don't think the new mons will do any favours for it unfortunately and my earlier statement in "some spikers stand out due to being them rather than purely there access to spikes" does not apply here sadly. So basically, no; spikes will most certainly remain on the fields much to your dismay but what this removal does is force a new dimension to teams which intend to take advantage of these hazards.

To conclude, I have expressed my opinions, or lack of for Tsareena lol, and do not believe that spikes will decrease greatly in popularity but will instead be more difficult to preserve, which in my opinion is a good thing. Of course this all speculation, duh, and I am most certainly excited for this new meta.
 
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