USUM NU Speculation Thread

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#1

It's leak season everyone, and we're finally finding out all the juicy details on what's coming with the new games. The most immediately relevant thing to NU is the release of the new Move Tutor moves and what Pokemon learns what.

Move Tutors: https://pastebin.com/CeZcXs7n
Base Stats: https://pastebin.com/j8CnVgCc
Double Kick - Incineroar
Tail Slap - Ambipom
Hurricane - Noctowl
Strength Sap - Vileplume, Jumpluff
Sacred Sword - Samurott
Power-Up Punch - Scrafty
Toxic Spikes - Accelgor
Nasty Plot - Aromatisse
Drain Punch - Incineroar, Passimian
Defog - Altaria, Chimecho, Combusken, Cryogonal, Drampa, Illumise, Murkrow, Oricorio, Rotom (all forms), Servine, Sigilyph, Silvally (all forms), Vivillon, Volbeat, Whimsicott
Drill Run - Lycanroc
Knock Off - Guzzlord, Incineroar, Raticate-Alola, Persian-Alola, Ledian, Komala, Lurantis, Passimian
Stealth Rock - Palossand, Mudsdale
Outrage - Guzzlord
Seed Bomb - Passimian
Gunk Shot - Passimian
Dragon Pulse - Exeggutor-Alola
Endeavor - Minior
Block - Pyukumuku, Passimian, Turtonator
Liquidation - Kingler, Bibarel

ty poh and eternally for helping compile this list


Keep discussion restricted to how the NU meta will look with the release of USUM please and remember that Vileplume now gets Strength Sap. We'll keep the thread updated with more links and info as we get it.
 
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#2
Hazard removal is gonna be SO much better in this new meta. Look at that - tons of shit getting it now, including rotoms, silvallies, altaria, and notably in the prankster whimsicott. Samurott getting Sacred Sword is pretty cool as it now doesn't have to worry about the attack drop from superpower. INCINEROAR GETS KNOCK OFF! Endeavor Minior is gonna be interesting but not enough to save minior. could be a cool suicide lead now though. Accelgor is now the fastest tspiker in the meta, cool. and hoooooly fuck strength sap vileplume thats dope. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this went RU but i hope it doesn't, thats super cool.

nAsTy pLoT aRomATiSsE

edit: just want to emphasize that the meta might be actual fun with so much defog now

edit2: forgot to mention passimian, i know i was discussing voltturn a few days ago with some NU roomstaff and this might actually makes it possible
 
#3
Few of my quick thoughts on the tutor moves.

Passimian is looking mad neat, it got just about everything it ever wanted. Scarf sets are gonna make for nice cleaner/pivots and Band is gonna be a neat breaker wuth the ability to core well with mons that like U-turn support.

Defog Sigilyph is the new king hazard remover of the tier. You can run it just like Xatu and basically have it do the same, but it's bulkier, faster, stronger, and doesn't care about hazards getting past it because it's immune to them. It can also have pseudo Wisp with Flame Orb + Psycho Shift, which lets it potentially beat stuff like Rhydon and Pilo. Pretty nuts addition.

Defog Mowtom seems pretty neat as well, makes bulky pivot sets more appealing.

Rocks Palossand and Mudsdale are both hot af. Palossand literally spinblocks for itself and is probably the only rocker that can beat Flame Orb Sigi guaranteed. Mudsdale comes with baller defensive and offensive utility, not much else to say it's just a fat horse.

Hurricane Noctowl is a top tier meme lmao too bad it didn't get Boomburst

Nasty Plot Aromatisse could be pretty interesting with an OTR set. Solid bulk, decent SpA, fairy moves are broken.

Drill Run Lycanroc-Dusk could be pretty good, Tough Claws boost is a neat boon. Really damn strong exclusice Z Move too.

CB GUZZLORD is here.

And last but not least, Strength Sap Vileplume is literally disgusting rofl please get this out of the tier..
 
#7
Also note that Lycanroc-Dusk will start in OU and drop down through the tiers since it's a new form. I'd be pretty surprised if a mon with SD Tough Claws Rock + Ground coverage ends up in NU, especially with a priority Tough Claws-boosted STAB, but I guess crazier things have happened.

I'll drop some sets of Pokemon that I think could be very relevant coming up


Palossand @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Water Compaction
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Shore Up
- Earth Power
- Shadow Ball

85/110 physical bulk is amazing and add Stealth Rocks and reliable recovery on top of that, you have one of the most splashable Fighting- and Normal-type counters in the tier. If Xatu stays it also has an awesome niche in being able to threaten it upon entry with STAB Shadow Ball and its nice natural offensive presence. It's awesome to get more viable options for Stealth Rockers, so this is a welcome addition.


Altaria @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower

Emboar will likely have to run Head Smash now because of this thing ruining its day. You can customize the spread to be specially defensive with eq for stuff like Delphox and Houndoom, too. The biggest issue is, of course, what Altaria has always struggled with and that's being too passive. It'll be a big boon for stall, which I imagine will become a lot more viable in the coming shifts.


Vileplume @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb

it does the same shit it's always done, but now it has no reason to ever change moveset because it just beats everything by dropping their attack with strength sap. they somehow made vileplume 10 times more obnoxious


Sigilyph @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Heat Wave
- Energy Ball
- Defog

Cool defogger for offense that beats most of the rockers, is guaranteed to get off a defog if you ignore taunt, and still acts as a clutch stop to some sweepers.


Rotom @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Volt Switch
- Defog

wisphex rotom's 4th moveslot always was a bit of a toss-up, and I think Defog is going to be the best option for it. Wisphex rotom beats all of the tier's Stealth Rockers as they switch in, maintains offensive momentum with Volt Switch, and is immune to Spikes which is all you could ever ask for in a Defogger. Hell, even if mowtom stays I could see this thing being a better offensive defogger than it.


Noctowl @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Hyper Voice
- Heat Wave / Defog
- Hidden Power [Grass]

I don't expect this to be good, but tinted lens is a broken ability so I have to try it out.


Passimian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Receiver
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn

ok we're back this thing's good again. has all the moves it could ever need if you ignore the existence of golbat (which you cripple with knock and rocks + u-turn). I think we're basically get the Sawk + Primeape fusion we expected this to be in full effect now considering both Scarf and CB are going to be pretty good. The only thing left to push this thing to the upper echelons of viability is the release of Defiant, especially considering how relevant Defoggers are going to be.

Too much cool stuff to cover in one post. I'm itching to play this and get everything established so that our tour scene doesn't suffer too much from the disarray. We're likely going to have to sit through a few months of OU, UU, and RU's growing pains with them passing stuff down and taking it back, just like we did in ORAS. At least the good news is that I don't think tutors really broke anything we have right now!
 

Ares

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#8

Vileplume @ Black Sludge
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Strength Sap
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
The issue with this set that is going to make it a bit unreliable for getting health back. The opponent can switch in a mon with a low base atk stat and plume will get back negligible health. People of course will have to go in and lower the ivs on the atk stat to give back less health, but in competitive play I think that for more consistency Moonlight will be better. Messing around with and against Shiinotic in our theorized alpha way back when found that the best counter play was to do exactly that.
 
#9

This will be absolutely disgusting lol. Strength sap is such a good move and it allows vileplume to become a staple in balance and influence the tier in many ways. All previous defensive utility is retained while sap means that any physical sweeper that can´t ohko plume will have to be quite scared. This will definitely improve balance as a playstyle as long as it stays in the tier.


This got like everything it needed and now it can actually be good. Scarf is a nice addition to Volt-turn and offence in general, although it will never win games on its own. CB is fine as well though it faces heavy competition from sawk and medi for a fighting type breaker and really only has u-turn to set it apart. Overall a pretty nice addition to the meta.


This mon is looking to be really great. Defog makes it super splashable on all kinds of teams. Flame orb defog on balance, Defog 3 attacks on BO and Offence and LO 4 attack is still going to be a nice breaker that is super dangerous for defensive teams. Sigi is also pretty unexplored rn, with things like cm or even tailwind being interesting. Generally great remover and the main xatu replacement if that leaves.


I think that the defog silvally forms do have some merit, specifically dragon, water and steel. They generally work if you want a hazard remover but also want to check something, these do the job fine, although they are kind of restricted to certain teams. They also really appreciate some wish support and that is basically restricted to megadino. While they are obviously not the best mons, I think these could get splashed into different teams at times.


Getting np is pretty good for this mon as now it has a much bigger niche. The OTR set will probably play similar to slowking except that fairy is a broken stab and really only needs psychic or hp ground as coverage to work great. On paper this seems really dangerous and im exited to try it out.


Defog is a pretty cool addition to this thing, working on some bulkier pivot sets while also having use in offensive ones. Defensive pivot is not really a common set but defog will improve it. Defog can also fit on grassium sets as the last move and provides another offensive defogger for the tier.


Not really a big thing but i´m not gonna lie i really wanna use sub endeavor. It lures a lot of its checks and counters by doing a lot of damage to them like lix, toad and pilo. This set could pair well with things that appreciate those things being weakened like klinklang. Still a really bad mon but I guess it´s less bad now?
 
#10
Passimian looks like a beast, it got absolutely everything it could've wanted, Gunk Shot and Knock Off. Still will face too much competition as a Fighting from Hariyama, Sawk, Hitmonlee, Gallade etc. in NU though, but its gonna be good in PU

Band Incineroar might actually have a slight niche with a really strong Knock Off on like Bulky Offense or something as a bulkier, stronger, Fire-type, slower, Sneasel. Still might face too much competition from Boar to have a niche though.

Liquidation Sheer Force Kingler is something a lot of people actually wanted, but probably won't have that much of a niche in the end anyways. Still might be a strong Water-type though and will probably be really fun with a Band set. (lol vileplume walls 10000)

Actually nvm sheer force mixed kingler w/ ice beam or blizzard for vileplume

Also specs noctowl definitely won't be good but tinted lens hurricane is neat
 
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quziel

I simulate Pottery
is a Pre-Contributor
#11
Just here to post that the most important change was forgotten:



Togedemaru gets Super fang!!!

Basically, this means that it is no longer complete fodder for literally any ground type, and is among the easiest ways to wear down an enemy lix, with a very easy wish/shield/fang/u-turn set, or other variations, and honestly, this is all the mon really needs. Just so easy to play, still beats half the annoying stuff in the tier (even if rotom-mow is temporarily dead), and just fun in general.



On a more serious note, Braviary is about to get about 4x better, as it now has a tier full of defoggers, and strength sap Vileplume to get its defiant on against, and shoot, it even loves the increase in defog for letting it come in more times, tank more stuff, and just generally be a complete jerk to face. This is all combined with the Bulk Up set being a pretty fun answer to most Sigilyph sets, taking 43% max from psychic, and doing the wonderful bulk up thing vs it. It got jack and shit from the tutors, but just about every potential meta trend benefits it hugely, and it should be a really fun mon in the upcoming meta (aside from tspikes being easier to remove).



On the note of Normal/Flying types, a Z-hurricane set should be incredibly fun from Noctowl, as it definitely has the bulk to abuse Roost, and Tinted Lens Hurricane hits like 3 tanks, having a small chance to OHKO standard Steelix from full, which isn't a small amount of damage. Sub-Toxic definitely has the potential to be a really fun breaker, as it can definitely annoy a ton of stuff that would otherwise have the raw bulk to actually take it on (see Cryogonal, Maudino), while still being able to break most toxic immunities (see Steelix, Garbodor). Specs sets definitely will be cool, just personally feel that sets able to abuse roost, and that disgusting Hurricane will be at the least easier to use, and at best more effective.
 
#12

Pyukumuku @ Leftovers/Poisonium
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Block
- Toxic
- Recover
- Soak

In my eyes this actually a huge buff. Pyukumuku never really needed its last slot anyways (counter sucks), and Block actually makes Pyukumuku a lot harder to play around. Beating stall without a shit ton of breakers involved a lot of smart switching, and now with a way to prevent people from doubling out of Pyukumuku (a mon that was fairly easy to double out of), stall is likely better. Outside of that, it's a direct benefit to Soak as now mons can't switch out, so doubling between 2 poison mons is no longer an option to pp stall.

All the defoggers are a cool addition and will probably shape the meta a lot, especially since most of them are not hazard weak themselves. Murkrow and Whimsicott with priority Defog make sash offense a much cooler prospect, Rotom forms are very splashable, and more Defog in general makes mons like Articuno and ZCharizard a lot scarier to play against. This also means Defiant is lot better (as Quizel pointed out above). I'm really hyped for Murkrow sash offense ngl..

Pallosand getting rocks is absolutely wonderful, though it struggles with most of the new defoggers.

Noctowl will actually be a significant mon now, and honestly is very akin to Yanmega, but with better typing. There are 0 resists to Tinted Lens flying moves and Noctowl's low base SpA is fine with a high base power move like Hurricane. Add Roost into the mix (and potentially defog) and this mon will actually be THE real threat. A cool set I'm thinking of is Offensive Tailwind.


Noctowl @ Wide Lens / Sharp Beak / Flyinium Z
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tailwind
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Hypnosis / Hyper Voice

Some more cool stuff to try is scarf Kingler and BU Passimian. That's all for now I will edit when I get more ideas>>
 
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Punchshroom

Paralysis is slightly less of a devil
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#13

Well this thing gets Thunder Punch now, aka perfect neutral coverage in just 3 moveslots. Even gets Drain Punch as its new filler.

Strength Sap Plume is going to be more annoying to fight than ever before: gone are the days where you could potentially gimp Plume's recovery by switching in Vanilluxe to nerf Moonlight/Synthesis's recovery to a max of 25% (factoring in Black Sludge). Now, even mons with Attack stats as low as ~60 base with min Attack, like Sigilyph, Delphox, and Mismagius, still give Vileplume at least 32% off the first Sap, 38% with Black Sludge. Something like Modest min Atk IV Guzzlord or 0 Atk Steelix are already allowing Plume to heal more than Synthesis by default, not to mention its Atk-weakening effect.

Surprised Guzzlord didn't get Gunk Shot; you'd think the physical embodiment of a glutton would get it, but I guess it'd be reluctant to throw up whatever it eats so...eh.

Ambipom gets Tail Slap...not too sure what to make of this honestly. I still don't think this would present an actual threat towards Cinccino's niche, since Rock Blast picks off Sash mons like Froslass, Archeops, and the soon-to-be-popular Sigilyph, while Bullet Seed still nets good coverage on bulky stuff like Seismitoad, Piloswine, Slowbro, and possibly Palossand.

Of all the mons that get Psychic Terrain as a new move, Delphox might probably be the best user, since powering up its Psychic moves while being immune to Sucker Punch can be funny, but this is about as gimmicky as Power Herb Magician SolarBeam, if not more so :I

Dodrio gets yet another buff in the form of Stomping Tantrum, a significantly weaker but much safer alternative to Jump Kick, especially with Rotom expecting to skyrocket in usage. Sawsbuck also received Stomping Tantrum, allowing us to relive the BW 'Nature Power Earthquake' days somewhat.

H0LY SH1T GUYS Hitmonchan gets Throat Chop, finally something for it to hit spinblockers with (and to brighten up this ocassion, Hitmonchan is the only one among the Hitmons to learn it, as if to flip them off for leaving it behind during the Sucker Punch tutor).

Ayy Togedemaru gets actual Steel moves this time

While Midday and Dusk Lycanroc get access to Drill Run, Midnight Lycanroc compensates by getting access to Thunder & Fire Punch.

I think that's all the relevant ones I can point out for now, unless you want me to point out Strength Sap Victreebel or First Impression Farfetch'd or something along those lines.
 

Martin

Like the hole in a doughnut
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Moderator
#14
I know we can’t find this out from the leak but in addition to Passimian having an actual movepool now it might even get access to Defiant, would will be huge on Spikes stacking teams as it means that it acts as a momentum grabber (to take advantage of forced switches to rack up more SR/Spikes damage), powerful cleaner, and Defog deterrent. Honestly this thing’s movepool is good enough that its pretty varied wrt what it can do too.

Im not that sold on defensive Defog Rotom-C ‘cuz what would it actually fit it around? If it sacrifices Pain Split it is too easy to wear down, if it savrifices Wisp it becomes a w of ehy ur using defensivr rotom-c, if it sacrifices either attack it becomes total shit. It just doesn’t have the room to fit the move into.

Echoing Pyuku sentiment. Shit’s just got better. Block is great for a mon which otherwise loses to multiple toxic immunes on one squad.
 
#16
These mons look all really fun and I’m looking forward to the new tier, I think it’s gonna be a lot different and that’s gonna be interesting. Though, I think people might be overestimating Vileplume a little — I don’t think it’s gonna be uncompetitive or anything, just insanely obnoxious but surely manageable.

On another note, I think people are also overrating Knock Off Incineroar — it’s a pretty great addition for that mon but it still has a lot of issues and it’s still going to struggle at beating most Physical attackers, also Darkest Lariat can be a better option against mons like Slowbro.

I really like the idea of Defog Silvally-Water, as it’s gonna be able to beat most rockers and this pokemon’s finally getting some sort of utility, which I had been looking forward to. Also, I think we should keep an eye on SR Mudsdale, getting that move will most likely give it a bigger niche.
 
#17

Turns out ya boy Guzzlord got a total makeover this gen!
252 HP
252 Attack
4 Defense
Brave Nature
-Knock off
-Heavy Slam
-Drain Punch
-Outrage
Assault Vest

With two new and improved STABs and SOME form of recovery, Guzzlord becomes a pretty solid special tank that can dish out damage. It becomes even stronger with Trick Room/Wish support. Glad to see one of my favorite UBs is growing stronger!

Alternatively
252 HP
252 Attack
4 Special Defense
Sassy Nature
-Knock Off
-Stockpile/Iron Defense
-Drain Punch
-Dragon Tail
Leftovers/Sitrus berry

This is more of a gimmick set, as I have not done any calculations for it, and it is absurdly weak to Fairies. That said, I figured I would throw it out here.
 

quziel

I simulate Pottery
is a Pre-Contributor
#18
Issue is that even with the buffs, specs still huts harder, and still has better coverage, with the added bonus of being able to switch out after using it's strongest attack.

This is in addition to avoiding Rocky helmet, which is still very common in NU
 
#19
Issue is that even with the buffs, specs still huts harder, and still has better coverage, with the added bonus of being able to switch out after using it's strongest attack.

This is in addition to avoiding Rocky helmet, which is still very common in NU
I completely agree with this post. And besides that fact, knock off isnt quite as powerful after it's used once, which isnt great for its main stab. Also steelix can just wall this, even with drain punch:

252+ Atk Choice Band Guzzlord Drain Punch vs. 244 HP / 40+ Def Steelix: 110-130 (31.2 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Guzzlord Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 244 HP / 40+ Def Steelix: 106-126 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

Obviously, it doesnt do as much back, but thats the best banded damage it can do mind you, so lix can always see what it locks itself into. If it's not banded, it takes it on quite well:
0 Atk Steelix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Guzzlord: 156-184 (26.5 - 31.3%) -- 39.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
 

Martin

Like the hole in a doughnut
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Moderator
#21
https://pastebin.com/dFCXVEv0
Spritzee - Nasty Plot

Aromatisse @ Life Orb / Fairium Z
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Trick Room
- Moonblast
- Psychic

Does it have a non-miniscule niche yet?

In all seriousness though, this could be fun. Slowest viable OTR ‘mon IIRC, Fairy+Psy is broken coverage too if u can weaken/remove steels (not hard). I’ll probably piss around with this at some point.
 
#23
I am a bit late on posting with this while renaming music files, anyways;


Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch
- Drain Punch
- U-turn

Small things that add up. Incineroar gets Knock, Drain Punch, Fire Punch and Hidden ability released. Overall improving the AV set with a stab that doesn't hurt you, a utility move that I can see people not even wanting as it can't 2HKO Slowbro and finally it has Drain Punch to hit Houndoom and get recovery back. Sadly Drain Punch isn't too strong for it and won't recover much at all compaired to the 25% you might lose on switch in.


Lycanroc @ Life Orb / Groundium Z
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Drill Run
- Accelerock
- Swords Dance

You SD you beat something or clean the game up. It's straightforward and it will be a valid offensive threat. But don't expect it to win games without support; the mon isn't bulky enough for setting up in everythings face, the priority has issues getting past other priority users and these calcs are only decent.
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Tectonic Rage (160 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 346-408 (98.2 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 226-268 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 263-309 (66.7 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Lycanroc-Midnight @ Groundium Z
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stomping Tantrum
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Minor Improvement, it got a better ground move, because the event rockruff is stated to only be able to evolve into Dusk form celebrate won't be accesable to either Midday or Midnight. For Midnight this was a window for a niche.


Passimian:
Tutor Drain Punch
Tutor Knock Off
Ability released

enough said

other stuff:
Accelgor: Egg Toxic Spikes, nifty

Togedemaru now learns Iron Head, scarf can stop being a 100% meme and become a ''sub-optimal set'', who knows maby it can be placed under Other Options.

Oricorio's got defog, none of them besides Sensu actually got actual use from that. Oricorio doesn't learn heat wave so rip Mini Zapdos.

Defog Silvally's, yea steel, fairy, ghost, water, ground and stuff can now actually be usefull on your team with a movepool like Parting Shot + Defog with some coverage or STAB combination as Flash Cannon/Surf/Shadow Ball give steel/water/Ghost viable options.

Servine now taking place of lurantis; Defog + Synthesis on the eviolite bulk(Servine is bulkier then lurantis) with a much better speed tier. The difference in special attack is to the extend of important Ko's however. Servine can't OHKO things like Vikavolt after +2 with HP Fire(57-67%) and with Rocks being up(25%) without the vikavolt also directly switching into it's Leaf Storm(22-26%).

Lurantis is talked about in this thread already so saying it gets Superpower + Knock and how relevant that is seems eh. Unlike Malamar it doesn't have a way of boosting speed and the pure grass type isn't the best defensive type but also not horrible.
 

Martin

Like the hole in a doughnut
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Moderator
#24
Actually seeing as Guzz was mentioned above, while I don’t think full phys will be remotely good, Knock Off is still a nice upgrade for AV variants that allows it to function as a better utility ‘mon. Something like this could be solid on it:


Guzzlord @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Knock Off
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Sludge Bomb

To put how insane this thing’s bulk is into perspective:

252 SpA Delphox Twinkle Tackle (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 492-580 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (same dmg as +2 Gleam)
136+ SpA Vikavolt Bug Buzz vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Guzzlord: 252-296 (42.9 - 50.4%) -- 1.6% chance to 2HKO

Guzzlord typically functions on its ability to take on resisted hits 80% of the time, but with AV it functions much more as a general tank for pretty much any neutral special hit without breaking a sweat while also being able to take on stuff like Lefties Vikavolt and still escaping reasonably safely if it switches in on the wrong attack, which it simply can’t do otherwise. Pair it with a Wish mon like Mega Dino or PhysDef Phox and it could suddenly throw a spanner into the works of a lot of teams, only helped by its ability to punish switches with KOff. Of course the big drawback is that it’s total Audino bait even with Sludge Bomb, which really blows especially when not much can realistically take on a boosted Mega Audino short of starting a setup war vs. it, but obviously you’d take that kind of stuff into account in your teambuilding by bringing smth like CM+Psyshock Delphox or CM Slowbro in the back precisely for this scenario.
 
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#25
I am a bit late on posting with this while renaming music files, anyways;


Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Fire Punch
- Drain Punch
- U-turn

Small things that add up. Incineroar gets Knock, Drain Punch, Fire Punch and Hidden ability released. Overall improving the AV set with a stab that doesn't hurt you, a utility move that I can see people not even wanting as it can't 2HKO Slowbro and finally it has Drain Punch to hit Houndoom and get recovery back. Sadly Drain Punch isn't too strong for it and won't recover much at all compaired to the 25% you might lose on switch in.


Lycanroc @ Life Orb / Groundium Z
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Drill Run
- Accelerock
- Swords Dance

You SD you beat something or clean the game up. It's straightforward and it will be a valid offensive threat. But don't expect it to win games without support; the mon isn't bulky enough for setting up in everythings face, the priority has issues getting past other priority users and these calcs are only decent.
+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Tectonic Rage (160 BP) vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 346-408 (98.2 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Drill Run vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Steelix: 226-268 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Lycanroc Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 263-309 (66.7 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Lycanroc-Midnight @ Groundium Z
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Stomping Tantrum
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance

Minor Improvement, it got a better ground move, because the event rockruff is stated to only be able to evolve into Dusk form celebrate won't be accesable to either Midday or Midnight. For Midnight this was a window for a niche.


Passimian:
Tutor Drain Punch
Tutor Knock Off
Ability released

enough said

other stuff:
Accelgor: Egg Toxic Spikes, nifty

Togedemaru now learns Iron Head, scarf can stop being a 100% meme and become a ''sub-optimal set'', who knows maby it can be placed under Other Options.

Oricorio's got defog, none of them besides Sensu actually got actual use from that. Oricorio doesn't learn heat wave so rip Mini Zapdos.

Defog Silvally's, yea steel, fairy, ghost, water, ground and stuff can now actually be usefull on your team with a movepool like Parting Shot + Defog with some coverage or STAB combination as Flash Cannon/Surf/Shadow Ball give steel/water/Ghost viable options.

Servine now taking place of lurantis; Defog + Synthesis on the eviolite bulk(Servine is bulkier then lurantis) with a much better speed tier. The difference in special attack is to the extend of important Ko's however. Servine can't OHKO things like Vikavolt after +2 with HP Fire(57-67%) and with Rocks being up(25%) without the vikavolt also directly switching into it's Leaf Storm(22-26%).

Lurantis is talked about in this thread already so saying it gets Superpower + Knock and how relevant that is seems eh. Unlike Malamar it doesn't have a way of boosting speed and the pure grass type isn't the best defensive type but also not horrible.
There's been no confirmation at all that Incineroar / Passimian have their HAs released. I wouldn't plan on it just yet.
 
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