He didn’t talk about metagame trends, but this isn’t nessiccarly true, although it does make your argument more convincing. You could also argue that a non is overrated or underrated in its current rank. I wouldn’t mind seeing a stakataka rise as it is very consistent for a b- mon.
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Resource USUM OU ULTRA Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Finchinator
- Start date
- Status
Kartana -> A+
This is the only mon in A to have had a buff, and wow, is the buff quite good. Knock-off is so easy to spam and makes switching into Kartana hard as ever. It's very punishing in general - you're punished if you scout it, and you're punished if you try to pivot. It's a very easy mon to use, to bluff, and it does not require support to use.
Last week it was being held in check by Naganadel, but now that Naga is gone I really think Kart should rise.
This is the only mon in A to have had a buff, and wow, is the buff quite good. Knock-off is so easy to spam and makes switching into Kartana hard as ever. It's very punishing in general - you're punished if you scout it, and you're punished if you try to pivot. It's a very easy mon to use, to bluff, and it does not require support to use.
Last week it was being held in check by Naganadel, but now that Naga is gone I really think Kart should rise.
"The only mon in A to have had a buff". What about Volcarona having more Defog support?
No doubt it helps, but you're also forgetting that there's like 999 more Pokemon now with Defog, which makes keeping Volcarona healthy, a lot easier.
Overview
Anyone who thinks Blacephalon is overhyped at this point hasn't been playing the same metagame. Despite its limited move pool, its actually able to fill quite a few roles and preform well in each and everyone one of them giving it the diversity to mold itself onto different archetypes and playstyle effectively. I believe the potency of all three of its major sets, which I'll detail below, make it worthy of A rank if not now sometime in near future.
Choice Specs
Specs acts as an instant nuke, being able to ohko-2hko everything in the tier with rocks up outside of Chansey and Tar. It's great offensive typing and solid speed allows it to come in frequently to fire off these big hits as well, which is usually a factor that holds back other powerful breakers. It also pairs great with a lot of the common u-turn and volt switch users due to taking advantage of both steels and grasses, which results in it being very splash-able. Finally, access to trick allows it to severely cripple majority of its common walls, effectively taking them out of the game allowing for itself or another member of the team to take advantage of later.
Fits on: Balance, Bulky offence and Sticky Webs
Roles: Balance Breaker, Stall Annoyer, Spin Blocker, Crippler
Calm Mind + Substitute
This set allows it to become one of if not the best stall breaker in the seventh generation, while still being effective verse other playstyles; which a lot of other dedicated stall breakers can't attest to at all. Obviously stall has seen a massive hit in its viability since the removal of another one of its trapping utensils in dugtrio, but i don't believe this devalues the set seeing as stall is still a relevant playstyle that sees usage on ladder and tours as well as it's formerly mentioned ability to operate outside of the stall match up effectively. It's potency verses stall stems from its ability to set up a sub on a lot of reoccurring faces of the playstyle via threatened them out by its stabs or in the case of Chansey it can't actually touch you. From there it's able to click cm and fire off attacks to blow through said stall team. The great part about it is it completely bypasses the usual hurdles a set up Mon would have with stall in unaware walls, since it is able to overpower both quagsire and clefable especially in conjunction with firium or ghostium. It also avoids being forced out behind a sub by ditto, avoids status that would wear it down as well as the formerly mentioned Chansey which it sets up on and beats 1v1 which is usually a massive issue for any special sweeper.
Fits on: Balance, Bulky Offence and Sticky Webs
Roles: Stall Breaker, Balance Breaker and Spin Blocker
Choice Scarf
Although I feel like choice Scarf is one of its weaker sets, it certainly does have its utility as a revenge killer and late game cleaner. It's revenge killing utility stems again from its massive Attack stat and solid speed allowing it to come in and threaten mons like SD Kartana, Volcarona (smack down or explosion), Landorus, Garchomp, Zygarde, SD Scizor, Bulu, Magearna and so on. As a late game cleaner it's access to beast boost providing it with the special attack boost after a kill, allows it to gain a lot of momentum late game and clean things up given the right scenario. Similiar to choice Specs, it also has access to trick allowing it to cripple a lot of its common answers, however it does have competition for alternative coverage as well as knock off
Fits on: Hyper Offence, Balance and Bulky Offence
Roles: Speed Control, Spin Blocker, Crippler or Item remover and Cleaner
Other Sets
I've seen sets like flame charge and Sunny day make some brief appearance on the ladder so I thought they might be worth mentioning although I'm not mentioning these sets as a reason for it to go up at least not now; but rather to highlight potential for it grow its versatility if these sets end up becoming relevant alternative to the above sets.
Fits on: Balance and Bulky offence
Roles: Sweeper, Spin Blocker and Balance Annoyer
Tyranitar Match-up
I felt like it was important to address the tyranitar match up and how much people overstate it as a reason it shouldn't be A-/A. If you look at the full picture you'll realise how well Blacephalon partners with fighting types, fairy types, Mega-Gyarados and Greninja; being able to remove psychic types like mew for fighting types, fat grass for Gyarados as well as Greninja, Steels for fairy and so on. The majority of if not all the mons that fall under this umbrella take advantage of tyranitar, especially when it's choice locked into pursuit allowing for free set or firing off a powerful hit. This alone can prevent a Tyranitar from clicking pursuit against Blacephalon allowing you to switch out freely and come back in later to force a similiar situation. There's also the potential to pair this mon with one of the various lures for Tyranitar such as Mega Latios with Earthquake which Gary illustrated in a post here. I'm not trying to play down its Tyranitar weakness, as it is a very real stop to it, however I want to point out the reality that one pokemon countering it isn't the end of the world for it, especially when competent team building can take advantage of this weakness.
Closing Words
I would really like to see Blacephalon move to A as I believe it is unique presence in the metagame that is very competent at executing a variety of a roles that can benefit many different team archetypes and playstyles. At the least I'm fine with it staying A-, but I'd hope this post would stop some of the nonsense circulating this mon and asking for it to drop. Thanks for reading n_n
So people generally agree that Kartana and Volcarona could move to A+ woth the additinal buffs and/or support they have been given in US/UM?
They are among the scariest offensive presences around now that Naganadel is gone from OU .Plus they can both be surprsing hard to switch into , even for their typical counters depending on the moves and Z-Crystals they are running .
They are among the scariest offensive presences around now that Naganadel is gone from OU .Plus they can both be surprsing hard to switch into , even for their typical counters depending on the moves and Z-Crystals they are running .
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I agree with what practically everything you've said, and after experimenting with Blace in the low-mid 1700's, I actually feel it's matchup vs T-tar isn't as crippling as many on the forum would imply. Against fairly decent opponents, it isn't all that difficult to bring down Tar, even without a lure. Seriously, this mon at +1 or with specs is just stupid, it's taking off basically a 3rd of Tar's health with Fire Blast. provided you don't bring it out too early, if you can chip like 33-40% of Ttar's health away, it is entirely possible to play around and beat Ttar on the switch.
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 100-118 (29.3 - 34.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Blacephalon Inferno Overdrive (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So yeah, basically the mon is a fuckin Nuke, pretty underrated atm, great against all this fat in the meta.
A- ===> A
Mur
If you're not first you're last
While everyone is talking about blace I'm just gonna throw in the fact that band tar isn't even a 100% counter to blace as spex hp ground has a chance to 2hko with rocks up, unless their running 228 hp which makes tar slower than skarm, wak, av mag pelipper and alo by one point, mawile, azu, mantine, and magnezone.
yeah if you're not running any hp at all or a very minimal amount blace is gonna bust through band tar rather easily as seen by that 96.1% chance to 2hko with rocks up. This is also assuming that tar has taken no chip at all, and with the previous posts before mine showing how many options there are in the tier to either lure in or take advantage of a choiced tar that synergize with blace, I believe that blace should go up to A.
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 228 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (36.6 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (36.7 - 43.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock - enough speed for wak and below (190 speed stat/128 speed evs)
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (40.4 - 48.1%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock - enough speed for venu and things that creep venu by one point (202 speed stat/176 speed evs)
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (42.8 - 51%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock - lol
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (36.7 - 43.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 128 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (39.1 - 46.6%) -- 28.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock - enough speed for wak and below (190 speed stat/128 speed evs)
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (40.4 - 48.1%) -- 65.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock - enough speed for venu and things that creep venu by one point (202 speed stat/176 speed evs)
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 146-174 (42.8 - 51%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock - lol
yeah if you're not running any hp at all or a very minimal amount blace is gonna bust through band tar rather easily as seen by that 96.1% chance to 2hko with rocks up. This is also assuming that tar has taken no chip at all, and with the previous posts before mine showing how many options there are in the tier to either lure in or take advantage of a choiced tar that synergize with blace, I believe that blace should go up to A.
I don't think Blacephalon should rise tbh. It is a good mon, and can be threatening to a lot of teams, but it is in general quite prediction reliant and is so easy to pressure provided you have mons that outspeed it for the specs set or that can take its stabs and retaliate for scarf. Heatran is still everywhere even after the Naga ban (although it has dropped a little), which is forcing it to shadow ball/hp ground, both of which also have immunities so aren't great to be locked into, making it easy to force out and take SR damage, which it is weak to. ttar also puts a lot of pressure on it, even though it works around offensive TTar with hp ground. It's bulk is pretty mediocre, it's basically dead if you mispredict once which, for a Mon that is quite prediction reliant, not very good in terms of reliability. Yes it likes that the post naga meta has its best checks dropping, but it's still a very immediate reaction and it still seems like new toy syndrome to me. It may be that I seem to have a good matchup V it, but it just doesn't seem to be reliable, and quite often does very little. SR also threatens it a lot, turning a lot of 2HKOs into OHKOs, including several from faster scarfers (latios' psyshock is one iirc), so it needs defog support, and that is still not as easy as some like to think (most of the new defoggers are either trash at defogging or have no place on offense). I'm not saying it's bad, I just think it's being a bit overhyped by those who want it to rise, especially with it being so early since the Naga ban and it basically being new toy syndrome since it's the first time it's usable now av ttar has dropped.
Also agreeing with Hawlucha to B+, won't elaborate as I already did on the old thread and nothing major has changed negatively for it in USUM.
Also agreeing with Hawlucha to B+, won't elaborate as I already did on the old thread and nothing major has changed negatively for it in USUM.
Mew --> B+
I haven't seen anybody use this since USUM released and it isn't that hard to see why. Ash-Greninja and Heatran are seeing really high usage alongside mons like Blacephalon that were just released as well as Hoopa-U, Bug Buzz Volcarona (which sets up on it), Sub Mega Gyarados and Weavile seeing more usage than the time when Mew was prominent, and they take advantage of it really hard. It faces a lot of competition nowadays as a Defogger from all of the new mons that were given Defog with USUM, like Rotom-W and other, old Defoggers like Kartana and Mega Scizor still being good. The archetype that it fit really well on, Zard-Y Offense, is practically dead with the banning of Dugtrio and SpD Toxapex being spammed. Speaking of Dugtrio, Mew lost one of its best teammates because Dugtrio was able to trap a lot of the mons that troubled Mew, like Heatran and Hoopa-U. Also, even if you wanted to use it as a Defogger, it gets totally crippled by Toxic Spikes as well as hazard stacking in general. It just can't wall Mega Lopunny or Mega Medicham when there's layers of Toxic Spikes and Spikes up on the field, which means that it can not consistently accomplish its job of a Defogger and check to Fighting-types like it used to.
I haven't seen anybody use this since USUM released and it isn't that hard to see why. Ash-Greninja and Heatran are seeing really high usage alongside mons like Blacephalon that were just released as well as Hoopa-U, Bug Buzz Volcarona (which sets up on it), Sub Mega Gyarados and Weavile seeing more usage than the time when Mew was prominent, and they take advantage of it really hard. It faces a lot of competition nowadays as a Defogger from all of the new mons that were given Defog with USUM, like Rotom-W and other, old Defoggers like Kartana and Mega Scizor still being good. The archetype that it fit really well on, Zard-Y Offense, is practically dead with the banning of Dugtrio and SpD Toxapex being spammed. Speaking of Dugtrio, Mew lost one of its best teammates because Dugtrio was able to trap a lot of the mons that troubled Mew, like Heatran and Hoopa-U. Also, even if you wanted to use it as a Defogger, it gets totally crippled by Toxic Spikes as well as hazard stacking in general. It just can't wall Mega Lopunny or Mega Medicham when there's layers of Toxic Spikes and Spikes up on the field, which means that it can not consistently accomplish its job of a Defogger and check to Fighting-types like it used to.
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Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Blacephalon: A- ---> A: Disagree
As a person who has used Blacephalon quite a bit, who has used multiple sets ranging from Specs to CM Ghostium, who acknowledges that it is more than capable of surviving in the OU environment, I have to digress here. Blacephalon's Achilles' heel, in my opinion, is its bulk. This factor of Blacephalon consistently makes me sad. Just when I think Blacephalon's ready to snowball the opposition, out comes some a faster Pokemon or something that tanks a hit that KOes it without a second thought. Unlike something like Pheromosa or Deoxys, Blacephalon's Speed fails to patch up its middling defenses, falling short of important mons like Latios and Kartana (the latter is especially frustrating). All the offensive Pokemon currently in A have either enough speed or a speed boosting move to justify average defenses (Volcarona, Greninja) or have the bulk to tank hits while dishing them back out (Kyurem-Black, Mega Mawile, Kartana on the defensive end). Blacephalon does not possess either of these qualities. I don't think Blacephalon is overhyped at all: It's a perfectly good Pokemon, and it'll probably stick around in OU for a long time. But it does not have the qualities of other A rank offensive threats that have allowed them to attain that placement.
Stakataka: B- ---> B: Agree
Stakataka has a hard time setting up and getting its sweep ready. But once it does, there is little you can do to stop it: The only counterplay that exists is either Ferrothorn or stalling out Trick Room. Fairly consistent, super strong.
And now, for my own nomination.
Tapu Fini: B ---> B-
Oh, how the greats have fallen. Tapu Fini is sort of in this weird void in the vast world of OU Defoggers: It's too weak to claim its name as an offensive Defogger like Latios or Tapu Koko. But at the same time, the utter lack of any reliable recovery outside of Leftovers (Misty Terrain means it can't even use Rest for God's sake) means it just gets worn down too easily to be considered a good defensive Defogger. When it comes to that, there are plenty of better options available: Skarmory, Mew, Mantine, Pelipper, Mega Scizor, all of which provide better and more reliable defensive utility, better support choices, and most importantly, reliable sustain/recovery. Whatever you need Tapu Fini to wall, one of these Pokemon listed does that job better. You want a Water type Defogger with Knock Off that can eat up physical hits? Use Pelipper. Want a specially defensive Water Defogger that can deter set-up sweeps with Haze? Mantine is right there. Need a Defogger with versatility and utility? Use Mew. Need an Ash-Greninja check that doesn't get cucked by Rocks? Hell, at that point, you're probably better off using Florges or Hydreigon. At least those can heal.
As a person who has used Blacephalon quite a bit, who has used multiple sets ranging from Specs to CM Ghostium, who acknowledges that it is more than capable of surviving in the OU environment, I have to digress here. Blacephalon's Achilles' heel, in my opinion, is its bulk. This factor of Blacephalon consistently makes me sad. Just when I think Blacephalon's ready to snowball the opposition, out comes some a faster Pokemon or something that tanks a hit that KOes it without a second thought. Unlike something like Pheromosa or Deoxys, Blacephalon's Speed fails to patch up its middling defenses, falling short of important mons like Latios and Kartana (the latter is especially frustrating). All the offensive Pokemon currently in A have either enough speed or a speed boosting move to justify average defenses (Volcarona, Greninja) or have the bulk to tank hits while dishing them back out (Kyurem-Black, Mega Mawile, Kartana on the defensive end). Blacephalon does not possess either of these qualities. I don't think Blacephalon is overhyped at all: It's a perfectly good Pokemon, and it'll probably stick around in OU for a long time. But it does not have the qualities of other A rank offensive threats that have allowed them to attain that placement.
Stakataka: B- ---> B: Agree
Stakataka has a hard time setting up and getting its sweep ready. But once it does, there is little you can do to stop it: The only counterplay that exists is either Ferrothorn or stalling out Trick Room. Fairly consistent, super strong.
And now, for my own nomination.
Tapu Fini: B ---> B-
Oh, how the greats have fallen. Tapu Fini is sort of in this weird void in the vast world of OU Defoggers: It's too weak to claim its name as an offensive Defogger like Latios or Tapu Koko. But at the same time, the utter lack of any reliable recovery outside of Leftovers (Misty Terrain means it can't even use Rest for God's sake) means it just gets worn down too easily to be considered a good defensive Defogger. When it comes to that, there are plenty of better options available: Skarmory, Mew, Mantine, Pelipper, Mega Scizor, all of which provide better and more reliable defensive utility, better support choices, and most importantly, reliable sustain/recovery. Whatever you need Tapu Fini to wall, one of these Pokemon listed does that job better. You want a Water type Defogger with Knock Off that can eat up physical hits? Use Pelipper. Want a specially defensive Water Defogger that can deter set-up sweeps with Haze? Mantine is right there. Need a Defogger with versatility and utility? Use Mew. Need an Ash-Greninja check that doesn't get cucked by Rocks? Hell, at that point, you're probably better off using Florges or Hydreigon. At least those can heal.
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I also think Rotom-W should move down to B+ or possibly B
I do not really see Defog helpng it that much since the mon already suffers from 4MMS and adding Defog means giving up needed offense or utility moves for it. It has competion for Electric-Type Defoggers as Zapdos has good bulk and a recovery move, While Tapu Koko has much stronger offensive presence and better at building momentum.
Plus, the rise of numerous grass types in the meta Kartana, Tapu Bulu, Tantagroth and M-Venusaur do not bode well for it either
I do not really see Defog helpng it that much since the mon already suffers from 4MMS and adding Defog means giving up needed offense or utility moves for it. It has competion for Electric-Type Defoggers as Zapdos has good bulk and a recovery move, While Tapu Koko has much stronger offensive presence and better at building momentum.
Plus, the rise of numerous grass types in the meta Kartana, Tapu Bulu, Tantagroth and M-Venusaur do not bode well for it either
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I don’t know why Buzzwole dropped to UR in the first place but this this thing is a menace imo. I’ve actually made a team around Zard X and add Buzzwole as a check to non-flyinium Z Lando-T and found out that Buzzwole actually does the most for the team. It can wall Kartana and take a hit from Stakataka and OHKO it will Drain Punch to recover a good bit of the damage it took.
Despite the rise in Volc and Blace, I believe that Buzzwole still can do a good bit of damage to them behind a sub if you can predict them right.
Some replays because I forgot to add them:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-664821753
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-664818218 Quite a bit of hax on my end
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-664763872 Pre-Naga ban
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-664647130
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I don't necessarily disagree that Rotom-W isn't that good, but Grass types have taken a hit with the addition of Blacephalon to the tier. While it can't necessarily come in on any of these mons (save defensive M-Vensaur), Blace automatically makes any of them yet another thing that will get KO'd if you swap it in.
In fact, you could say that Rotom-W and Blace actually have great synergy, Rotom-W forcing switches and providing Volt Switch/Defog/Wisp support and Blacephalon supplying the kind of major offensive presence that Rotom-W can't provide for itself.
Nobody will probably agree with this but.
B- ---> B
I nominate Bisharp to B for the amount of defoggers running around at the moment. Defiant is a great ability to have and can really shred some mons with darkinium Z or a knock off to the face
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 292-345 (96.3 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 330-388 (86.1 - 101.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136 Def Mantine: 459-540 (123 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
after defiant he can OHKO some prominent defog users. Bisharp can even use pursuit to keep them from leaving this powerhouse. He has priority in sucker punch and packs a huge punch at + 2 to anything with darkium Z.
I nominate Bisharp to B for the amount of defoggers running around at the moment. Defiant is a great ability to have and can really shred some mons with darkinium Z or a knock off to the face
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Rotom-Wash: 292-345 (96.3 - 113.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 330-388 (86.1 - 101.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 136 Def Mantine: 459-540 (123 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
after defiant he can OHKO some prominent defog users. Bisharp can even use pursuit to keep them from leaving this powerhouse. He has priority in sucker punch and packs a huge punch at + 2 to anything with darkium Z.
MegaStarUniverse
Banned deucer.
I disagree with Tapu Fini dropping to B- completely. This thing is the only thing that can check and switch in to Ash-Greninja and utility Heatran. Sure it gets worn down and has no recovery but most of the time from i seen the Fini user always plays it wrong and uses Fini to counter and check everything.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-329689 - SNAKE DRAFT game between Eternal Spirit vs Ban Manaphy showing why Tapu Fini is not useless. It traps Heatran and Taunts Celesteela allowing Z move Happy Hour Greninja to Sweep. Fini also switches in vs Keldeo a number of times.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen7ou-331141 - perfect example of how to use Tapu Fini vs Toxapex-Tran
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-653675839 - Tapu Fini able to take a hit from Specs Ash-Gren & Fake out + Return from M-Lopunny. Also being able to defog on Ash-Gren was useful.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-654071415 - Not really a battle full of metagame choices but this shows Tapu Fini can be a win con vs Scarf Keldeo + Band Tyranitar teams
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-655419075 - Perfect example of why Tapu Fini is good vs Utility/Sub Heatran
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Surf / Scald
- Taunt
- Defog
&
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt
- Whirlpool
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Surf / Scald
- Taunt
- Defog
&
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Nature's Madness
- Taunt
- Whirlpool
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I completely agree with this sentiment. Blacephalon's versatility is quite surprising, solely because it can do so much with its excellent offensive spread and its surprisingly diverse movepool. It can do so much, in fact, that its only true, clear-cut, low-risk counter is Tyranitar. Chansey risks getting crippled by getting Tricked a Choice item and losing its precious Eviolite. Special walls that are hit by either Shadow Ball or Fire Blast risk getting severely dented or, in some cases, suffering from a SpDef drop from Shadow Ball. The tier's many Ice-weak threats are hit where it hurts the most with an HP Ice. Volcarona risks getting revenge killed by Choice Scarf variants with Smack Down. It has Knock Off in its expansive movepool, which deserves an honorable mention. It can bypass its Chansey weakness even further if it opts to run its Substitute set, too. And no matter the set, the last thing you want is for Blacephalon to pick up a KO at any point, at that.
Given how insanely versatile Blacephalon is, even being able to muscle past everything that beats a set or two with a different set or two or surprise a massive threat with something unexpected (friendly reminder that this thing gets a pretty stupid 127 Attack to use Smack Down and Knock Off with) it stands to reason that it differentiates itself from the rest of A-. I would easily consider it a cut above Hoopa-U, Weavile in a post-Naga meta, Mew, etc. and very much at the level of half of A. And to anyone who isn't entirely convinced, just remember that Tyranitar is this monster's only hard-counter.
Blacephalon from A- --> A: Strongly Agree. And I wouldn't even say A+ is far-fetched if Tyranitar were to drop in usage at some point in the future.
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Hey, just for ur information when nomming a UR mon to be ranked u have to include replays.UR —> C- / C / C+
I don’t know why Buzzwole dropped to UR in the first place but this this thing is a menace imo. I’ve actually made a team around Zard X and add Buzzwole as a check to non-flyinium Z Lando-T and found out that Buzzwole actually does the most for the team. It can wall Kartana and take a hit from Stakataka and OHKO it will Drain Punch to recover a good bit of the damage it took.
Despite the rise in Volc and Blace, I believe that Buzzwole still can do a good bit of damage to them behind a sub if you can predict them right.
Mew lost a ton of splashability to the point where i'd argue for Offensive to be better then defensive, besides that it's the only mega medicham switch in that's semi reliable because if hazards r up and megacham is adamant gg lol.
Stakataka is the most unique Pokemon that we have received for USUM in the OU tier. It has a powerful 131 Attack stat and 13 Speed to be able to boost the power of its STAB Gyro Balls. It also has a high 211 Defensive but a mediocre 61 HP and defensive typing holding it back. It also has access to moves like Superpower (hits Ferrothorn and Kartana and Stakataka for some solid OHKOS/2HKOS) and has Earthquake to hit the most common defensive pokemon in the tier, Toxapex, without having to risk missing Stone Edge or anything, and also hits Heatran for an OHKO, and opposing Stakataka. Gyro Ball from a 131 Attack and 13 Speed Pokemon is one of the strongest attacks in the game. It is able to 2HKO defensive Lando and OHKO offensive variants after Stealth Rock. There are many other Pokemon it does massive damage to which I will post calcs for after I go through some of my favorite sets.
Stone Edge/Gyro Ball/Superpower/Trick Room w/ Rockium Z:
Stakataka obviously functions best under Trick Room due to its low speed. It can outpace Pokemon on offensive builds and dent holes with its strong Gyro Balls. Stone Edge is just there for STAB and Superpower as I have said above hits Kartana and Ferrothorn. Rockium Z is nice to have since it can break past Defensive Pokemon like Toxapex, Celesteela, and Skarmory. This is a great set to just set up Trick Room and get kills with its powerful moves and utilize Beast Boost to get +1 Attack and do more damage to everything on offensive builds.
Same as above but w/ Life Orb:
Nothing different from the set above but a Life Orb. This just help do more damage to some of its switch-ins.
Stone Edge/Gyro Ball/Superpower/Earthquake w/ Choice Band:
Same stuff but hits harder you get the message. I don't think this is that great of a set since it can't set up TR but it is definitely a decent option for TR builds.
Stone Edge/Gyro Ball/Superpower/Earthquake w/ Shuca Berry:
I have tested this set before and it is very fun and in some cases extremely useful. This is probably the only set that Stakataka can run that doesn't involve being under Trick Room. It can take Earthquakes and Thousand Arrows and do really good damage back to Lando and Zygarde with Gyro Ball. Probably not as good as the other Offensive Trick Room sets, but it can come in handy at times.
Calculations:
252+ Atk Stakataka Superpower vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 194-230 (55.1 - 65.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Stakataka Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 228-270 (88 - 104.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 168-198 (55.2 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 255-302 (79.9 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (OHKOS if it was at +1)
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 294-346 (92.1 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 229-271 (63.9 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Stakataka Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 229-271 (54.9 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Stakataka Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 186-219 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 103-123 (30.9 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Stakataka Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 255-300 (64 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Stakataka Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Celesteela: 142-168 (35.6 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Shuca Berry Stakataka: 170-204 (64.6 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Shuca Berry Stakataka: 156-186 (59.3 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Most of this stuff is easily 2HKOd too if you're a good player and can keep up your rox
In conclusion, this Pokemon is a very nice Pokemon TR has received. It can easily break through more offensive teams that aren't as bulky. It is a top tier threat in my opinion on Trick Room, and is deserving of a spot in the B+ rank.
I have to disagree here. Rotom-W is pretty good in this meta, is just that the Defensive set isn't really good.
The offensive set in the other hand, can threaten out most Rockers/Spikers while also being able to give momentum to its team
I could talk more about it, but LL (I can't tag him halp ma) made a better case for it in the metagame discussion than I could ever do
I'm sure many of you guys have been waiting for this post since I've been gassing up offensive Rotom-Wash lately and here it is!
Rotom-Wash @ Waterium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 192 HP / 252 SpA / 64 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
A lot of people have been claiming that Rotom-Wash is "overhyped" lately, but I think it's because they're using the wrong set. People are focusing on making Rotom into a defensive pivot when I think its abilities as an offensive pivot are much more valuable in this metagame and it really shouldn't be used as your primary switch in for very much at all. With an offensive set, Rotom can still get hazards off the field vs Lando-T, Toxapex, and Heatran while actually having an offensive presence to properly threaten some of the tier's bulkier hazard setters that otherwise would be able to get free hazards vs it in Ferrothorn and Clefable. Aside from just pressuring bulkier hazard setters more, Rotom-Wash can also wear down defensive Pokemon that don't mind taking Volt Switches that much like Toxapex a lot faster with its increased damage output. Additionally, this set can be huge in late game scenarios where you can't afford to miss Hydro Pump or you just need to snipe an offensive threat coming in to get the advantage in the sac game. Obviously you only get one Hydro Vortex per game, but I really want to stress its ability to completely wipe offensive threats off of the board later in games. This thing is probably my favorite mon right now, it's a ton of fun to use :]252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 124 SpD Celesteela: 192-228 (48.2 - 57.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 192-228 (54.5 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lopunny-Mega: 295-348 (108.8 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKOalth Rock
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Magearna: 253-298 (84 - 99%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 40 HP / 0 SpD Mawile-Mega: 298-352 (118.7 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Medicham-Mega: 327-385 (125.2 - 147.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16 SpD Scizor-Mega: 280-331 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Koko: 363-427 (129.1 - 151.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Vortex (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tapu Lele: 253-298 (90 - 106%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Rotom-Wash Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 122-146 (40.1 - 48%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
Florges: Unranked ---> C
It's strange how everyone is (or at least used to be) hyping up Gliscor and Rotom as amazing Defoggers, yet somehow don't pay attention to this monster over here. Florges has not one, but several unique qualities as a hazard remover. For starters, its defensive typing and huge SpD mean it can sponge up special hits very well, and is part of an elite class of hazard removers that can take on Ash Greninja, as well as mons like Mega Sableye, Special Tapu Koko, Alakazam, Choiced Blacephalon, Zygarde, Keldeo, Pelipper, Rotom-Wash and Tangrowth. Florges has a slew of useful utility, including Heal Bell, Magic Coat, Endeavor and even Wish support. Florges is also a lot less passive than other Defoggers, with a nice 112 SpA bolstered by STAB Moonblast.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-667129209 Here we can see Florges acting as a general annoyance, tanking hits from Rotom and forcing switches.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-667132017 In this game, Florges takes advantage of Greninja's lack of Gunk Shot and continues to tank hits and remove hazards and status. Towards the end, the opponent is left in a position where Florges can take down the rest of their team with Moonblast.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-667139414 This time around, Florges walls stuff and stalls out Mew in the last few turns.
A more offensive set does well vs most entry hazard setters yes, but then becuase of its middling speed stat it can be easily overrun and its momentum stopped by many faster, stronger offensive threats in the meta such as Kartana, Ghostuim-Z Blacephelon, M-Lopunny, even Bugium-Z Volcorona.
This offensive Rotom-W can do well vs more defensive teams. But it suspect vs offensive ones.
Disagree with the Fini drop. I mean yes it's not really good by any means but most of the things you said are not true. Like it being completely outclassed by Skarmory, Mew, Mantine, Pelipper, Mega Scizor etc (u didnt even mention Rotom, Gliscor or Zapdos who are definitely better than Skarm lol.). But like wtf Fini still keeps threats like Ash-Gren (despite it having acces to Gunk Shot but no1 will ever use that), Zygarde, Keldeo, Weavile, Zard-X, M-Gyara and (Mega-)Latios at bay while wearing down any defensive switch-in with Taunt+Natures Madness. It also provides Terrain support, has a decent speed stat, a good typing in general and annoys stall. In addition it can trap Pex with Whirlpool and can use Knock Off now. Imo a solid mon in B.
sry if this post seems rushed, but i want to reply to this. All of those pokemon florges 'walls' have ways around it. If gren is protean gunk shot it beats it and if it has rocks and 1 layer of spikes up it wins, sab can cripple it w/ knock, koko can volt switch and specs 2hkos after rocks, zam wins if its cm, blace 2hkos w/ specs fb and sub cm gets free setup, zyg can win w/ groundium (which is an actual set, albeit uncommon), cm keld wins after sr, pelipper 2hkos w/ specs hydro and synthesis is weakened by rain, rotom can volt switch, and tang can knock. It also baits in a ton of pokemon like heatran, and every steel in the tier really. Gives mons like volc, mage and cm blace free setup, and has 4mss, so u have to run synthesis for recovery to be able to fit more important moves like defog and heal bell. Those replays dont rly show much of worth bc theyre all around 1400-1500, which still is full of dumb low ladder shit and the players in the replays ,ade a few crucial misplays, for example, in the second replay, the player stayed in on koko w/ steela, their only florges answer, for no good reason. Florges also loses to common hazard setters like ferro, heatran, cm clef, excadrill, suicide lead gren, etc. so ye, dont rank florges.
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Just want to put this out there: to be a Defogger, a mon must be able to beat at least some hazard setters. Gliscor, Rotom, Lando-T, Skarmory, Zapdos and even Tapu Fini are defoggers because they can do just that: beat some/ many setters. Florges, on the hand, loses to every single hazards setter bar Ash-Gren (which is indeed nice but at the same time, Ash-Gren is only a partial spiker) so dont put Defog on it.
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