Metagame USUM PU Discussion Thread

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pancake

movement and location
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#1
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op stolen from spirit



There's a lot of new info about the upcoming games Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, which release in 9 days. Use this thread to discuss potential changes to the PU metagame, including tutors, new level up moves, entirely new moves, and new Pokemon. Keep discussion related to PU, please!

New info:
If you have anything to add to the list of notable tutor moves for PU Pokemon, let me know.
 
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Twix

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#2
With the announcement of the actual tutor moves in Ultra Sun and Moon, I decided to look through the lists and see which PU Pokemon gained some beneficial things from them. There were definitely some big winners, as well as some Pokemon with some moderate boosts. Someone passed me this link if you're interested: https://projectpokemon.org/research/usum/tutor_moves.txt


+ Zen Headbutt, Drill Run

In my opinion, Lycanroca solid winner. While currently, it can't really do much against Fighting-types such as Gurdurr and Primeape, Zen Headbutt prevents it from being a free switch-in and can be very effective. Similarly, Drill Run allows for Lycanroc to hits a bit harder than Drill Run (20 more BP with Z) and creates a form of edgequake, which can be more effective as a whole.

edit: I think that the Z move will be pretty sick as well so I'm excited for that, especially since Rockium is already a great nuke.

edit 2: It also gets Endeavor, which could further boast its role as a suicide rocker (ty EasyPickings)


+ Iron Head, Super Fang

Another big winner, Togedemaru finally got a good Steel-type attack, which could make it able to run more offensive sets rather than just support. In addition, Super Fang is a great addition to the support sets as walls can pretty easily come in on it and set up Stealth Rock. It can also chip attackers to the point that they can be revenged. Its movepool just became a bit more diverse and better as a whole.


+ Superpower, Knock Off

oh no another malamar Lurantis has basically been run solely as a Special Defogger with Contrary, but I think that its physical sets gained a lot more use through these tutors. Contrary Superpower paired with 105 Base Attack, 70/90/90 bulk, and recovery seems like it will be a pretty solid option, although I still think the special variant holds merit in the metagame.


+ Knock Off

Yeah so the addition of Knock Off to these Pokemon is pretty sick in two different ways. In terms of Persian-Alola, it gives it another Dark-type move in place of Foul Play which it can use to work as a support Pokemon. In contrast, Hustle boosted Knock Off instead of Crunch allows for Raticate-Alola to hit very strong and also pushes it even more over the damage output that Absol has with Knock Off.


+ LIQUIDATION

KINGLERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. yay sheer force boosted stab!!!


+ Superpower, Knock Off

Komala has really fallen off since its initial hype and the addition of these two moves might open a spot for it as an attacker, although I generally think that its Speed will still hold it back in the long run.

+ Stealth Rock

I've been calling for these Pokemon to get rocks since the beginning of SM PU and I really think it adds a new dimension to which each of the Pokemon can do. Palossand doesn't just have to be a random bulky mon, it is a Fighting-type counter, Stealth Rock user, and generally bulky mon with recovery. Similarly, Mudsdale can now function as a defensive tank as well as a Stealth Rock user which can be pretty cool. I'm personally the most hype about Mudsdale.

+ Defog

While I think the main Pokemon that really benefitted from this are Altaria, Silvally and Oricorio, I feel that other people will discuss those so I'd rather focus on the more niche Pokemon. Volbeat and Murkrow offer priority Defog, and Murkrow especially can use it as its fourth moveslot is generally pretty open. Similarly, Rotom-Frost is an interesting Defog user based on the fact that it provides momentum, is immune to Ground, and has other utility moves such as Wisp which can work (typing is ass tho). Finally, Drampa could be cool as a defogger although I generally think that Specs is still the way to go.

+ Dragon Pulse


This addition is fairly small but I think that it is pretty good for Exeggutor-Alola as it allows for its Dragon-type STAB to be more spammable, rather than pressing Draco Meteor and being forced to switch out.

I just skimmed through the list so I probably skipped some things, but overall these changes are pretty sick and I'm ready to add some more variety to the tier!
 
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#4
Lycanroc getting Endeavour finally makes it the suicide lead that we've been wanting, almost totally outshining Archeops thanks to additional access to Accelerock; so it'll be fun to see that on more HO oriented teams, with Drill Run also being a cool move too. I actually think we'll lose Altaria to NU now that it has its newfound access to Defog, as it's able to role compress very well along with not really worrying about status moves such as Toxic due to its ability, the rest seem okay I suppose. Iron Head will almost certainly replace Zing Zap on all sets that aren't niche ones such as Choice Scarf, as it is unable to be blocked by either the Ground typing or abilities such as Volt absorb and such. Super Fang also looks to be an interesting utility move for it. Yeah, I'm not too sold on Physical Lurantis, I just don't think it quite has the right tools and suffers a lot from 4MSS if it wants to run Superpower. Komala still sucks but may actually suck a little less thanks to these new moves, doubt it though. I'm unsure how much the addition of Knock Off to the too listed mons will actually effect them; I'd probably still run Foul Play on Persian and Crunch/Sucker Punch on Alolan Raticate, we'll see though. Kingler getting a good STAB option might make it somewhat viable, which would be cool. All three getting access to Stealth Rock is crazy fun, and gives them newfound niches and roles to fulfil.

Very watered-down thoughts, but I'm kinda hyped!
 
#7
passimian is going to be a monster. it has the potential to just straight up rise tremendously in the viability rankings more so than anything else, as with knock off and gunk shot, combined with the upcoming defiant ability, gives it the potential to really cement the role of one of the most solid breakers in the tier. it's basically at this point a sawk with no zen headbutt but with u-turn+defiant, which is huge since teams carrying the few things that can legitimately take it on like weezing and super bulky colbur berry mons like gourgeist are going to be dealing with a momentum machine throughout the match. defiant is going to be great for taking advantage of a lot of the new defog additions to the tier that is essentially going to impact the metagame, and after a defiant passimian is basically impossible to wall. as a reference:

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Passimian Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 193-228 (57.7 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Passimian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Colbur Berry Gourgeist-Super: 206-243 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Passimian Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 228-269 (60.9 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Passimian Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 284-335 (93.7 - 110.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

these pokemon are among the best fighting-type switch ins in the tier (barring exceptional cases like gurdurr obviously), so it's amazing how much immense pressure it's going to put on slower builds that utilize defog, as it has plenty of opportunities to come in and fish for the defiant boost thanks to its decent bulk and pivoting abilities with u-turn. it might even be a little too much for pu, but i'm sure only time will tell.

palossand, mudsdale, and dugtrio-a offering to the tier two stealth rock users with an electric immunity adds some nice role compression for teams, and palossand also doubles as a spinblocker that can actually switch in to hitmonchan (barring lo variants often) while both in general being a nice blanket check to a lot of people by virtue of their typing and in mudsdale's case, ability. not much else to say here, but it'll certainly improve their utility and can add role compression for teams struggling to fit an electric-immune pokemon elsewhere. alolan dugtrio is the more offensive choice while also offering memento support and being fast enough to force out a lot of stuff.

as for defog users, i'm particularly most excited about altaria, silvally, and volbeat/illumise(?). altaria getting the move means that it gets to finally actually have a meaningful impact in matches outside of just being that super reliable magmortar check, and it does take advantage of metagame trends like hp grass on a ton of pokemon for gastrodon (meaning it walls electrics and fires), and checking things like lilligant and lurantis gives it a lot of defensive merit in the meta. it's also a defogger than can come in fairly freely vs ground-based hazard users like ferroseed without lacking offensive presence (flamethrower to 2hko ferro). silvally opens up a lot of options for various silvally formes, as most silvally sets can easily fit it, as can stuff like oricorio pom-pom. volbeat/illumise getting prankster defog is lit too, as it definitely adds to their support arsenal (though i'm kind of wondering how prankster defog interacts with dark-types).

s/o to the cool new lycanroc form, with tough claws boosted accelrock and coverage options (drill run, fire fang, zen headbutt, iron tail, etc.) it's going to be pretty tough to defensively and offensively check.

i'll probably comment on some more stuff later, but yea those are just my preliminary thoughts. can't wait for usum!
 

Taskr

Wanna Know
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#8
Potential UB's!



Stakataka
Rock/Steel

HP: 61
Atk: 131
Def: 211
SpA: 53
SpD: 101
Spe: 13

I feel like this thing has a lot of PU potential due to its bad defensive typing and terrible Speed. If i'm honest i really dont know where this Pokemon would fit into the metagame, as an offensive tank i'd rather have Aggron and as a defensive Stealth Rocker I'd rather have Regirock or even Probopass as a pivot. Maybe this could see some play as a Trick Room abuser due to its decent Attack and low Speed in combination with Beast Boost but thats about it.



Poipole
Poison

HP: 67
Atk: 73
Def: 67
SpA: 73
SpD: 67
Spe: 73

This guy is a little bit more interesting, Poison type allows it to absorb tspikes and access moves like Gunk Shot, Nasty Plot, Dragon Pulse and Iron Tail could give it some merit. I could also see things like Z-Snatch with Nasty Plot giving this +2 Speed, although maybe too hard to set up. Ultimately, its probably not worth using either since its stats are really bad and lack of good special STAB.

Edit: doesn't get Heat Wave (rip) but does get Sludge Wave and Sludge Bomb, s/o Slar Flar
 
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#9
Potential UB's!



Stakataka
Rock/Steel

HP: 61
Atk: 131
Def: 211
SpA: 53
SpD: 101
Spe: 13

I feel like this thing has a lot of PU potential due to its bad defensive typing and terrible Speed. If i'm honest i really dont know where this Pokemon would fit into the metagame, as an offensive tank i'd rather have Aggron and as a defensive Stealth Rocker I'd rather have Regirock or even Probopass as a pivot. Maybe this could see some play as a Trick Room abuser due to its decent Attack and low Speed in combination with Beast Boost but thats about it.



Poipole
Poison

HP: 67
Atk: 73
Def: 67
SpA: 73
SpD: 67
Spe: 73

This guy is a little bit more interesting, Poison type allows it to absorb tspikes and access moves like Gunk Shot, Heat Wave, Nasty Plot, Dragon Pulse and Iron Tail could give it some merit. I could also see things like Z-Gastro Acid with Nasty Plot giving this +1 Speed, although maybe too hard to set up. Ultimately, its probably not worth using either since its stats are really bad and lack of good special STAB.
99% sure Poipole does NOT get Heat Wave. Checking its movepool, its really shallow with only access to Sludge Bomb and Hidden power (dragon pulse can be used but it doesn't get it any noteworthy KOs I don't think). It does however get beast boost which is always great on a mon
 
#10


No one's talked about this yet, and for good reason. It still won't be that amazing at the end of the day, but it did get a minor buff in access to the move Fire Punch, allowing it to be better at its job as a Steel trapper since it no longer has to rely on Fire Blast off of its awful Special Attack stat. It also got Stealth Rock from the tutors but this isn't really too important, although it could be a niche setter as you can trap Steels and easily set it up on them, if you wish. You'll be better off with a different setter a majority of the time, however. Although it is small, I really wanted to bring this up as it's now slightly more viable just with one simple addition to its arsenal.


Altaria getting Defog is actually fairly huge, and I think it'll definitely see more usage, especially since it's already a fairly good check to Magmortar, and can be a decent check to mons such as non Z-Hyper Beam Lilligant, Ferroseed, Gurdurr, and Combusken. This is definitely fairly nice utility in a mon, and I definitely see this thing rising in viability for sure.


Along the same lines, Silvally also gets Defog, which is fairly nice, especially for the forms with solid defensive typings such as Fairy, Steel, and Ghost. Hell, I think someone even brought up Silvally-Poison as a fairly niche option since it can also remove T Spikes without getting poisoned. Silvally got a shitton of moves from tutors so there's a lot of potentially hidden gems within its new movepool.

New UBs:

In all honesty, Poipole and Stakataka are probably the only potential ones to drop. Poipole just has straight awful stats and a less than stellar movepool while Stakataka has a really awful defensive typing, pretty high attack and a super titantic defense, decent special defense, and only okay-ish or really bad everything else. It gets Trick Room though, so it could still work as a decent Trick Room setter, but as others have said I don't see much more merit to this, so it'll most likely be limited to Trick Room teams unfortunately. The others just seem way too good, but this is kinda theorymonning so I'll stop here.
 
#11
Something I haven't seen mentioned, but I think is a significant improvement:



Rapidash now learns High Horsepower.

It had access to Drill Run previously via move tutor, but HH is 15 base power stronger for the same accuracy, and although it won't let it break through things like Regirock, it turns things like Golem into 2HKOs, Probopass and Lycanroc into a OHKO with SR up (to break sturdy/expected sash) and allows it to OHKO things like Magmortar and Pyroar if Choice Banded.

Also, for a more gimmicky improvement:



Sawsbuck now learns Headbutt, giving it a move to actually make use of Serene Grace.
 
#12
Crabominable got Drain Punch and Focus Punch which will make for some cool sets (Iron Fist FP is as powerful as Band CC before any items are taken into account).

Can't wait to run subtoxic and scarf sawsbuck!!!!
 
#13
Friendly reminder that Sawsbuck also learns Thunder Wave, which it never had reason to use before, for all your paraflinching needs.

EDIT: Also Noctowl is getting a surprising amount of attention in the NU thread for its nigh-unresisted Tinted Lens Hurricane, but is still technically PU and probably unlikely to rise. Specs Noctowl could be a thing to watch out for now.
 
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#14
Stakataka will probably be a good TR cleaner- it gets plenty of chances to set up tr with its titanic bulk and it's so slow that even against regirock Gyro Ball hits 125bp:

252+ Atk Life Orb Aggron Gyro Ball (125 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Regirock: 320-377 (88.1 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

1hkoing regi with an unboosted physical move after rocks, not many mons can claim that. 131 attack ties it with Faticate and thanks to Gyro Ball it essentially has a reusable Black Hole Eclipse against the majority of the tier. I mean:

252+ Atk Life Orb Aggron Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 244-289 (79.4 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Lol. This is going to be a menace for offense to deal with, especially since Hitmonchan's Mach punch does like 50 max, and even less if you've sacced something to get it in thanks to Beast Boost increasing Stakataka's defense.
 
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#15

So I am actually really hyped for Fearow this generation as it get's laser focus!

252 Attack
252 Speed
4 Hp
Jolly Nature
Sniper
Normalium Z
-Return/Double Edge
-Drill Peck
-Drill Run
-Laser Focus

Laser Focus ensures that your next move will be a critical hit and the Z version gives +1 attack! With this set up and a boost from Sniper, Fearow should be able to break through most walls. At the very least in theory. Its more than this bird has ever had ok?! If you do not have the time to set up, you can use your Z crystal offensively. A very solid partner is Silvally thanks to new access to Defog, Thunder wave support, and Parting Shot to give Fearow more chances to set up. With base 100 speed, it has the potential to be a solid late game sweeper.
 

Anty

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#16
Interesting to see no one has really mentioned Servine which gets defog now. It kinda outdoes Lurantis as a defensive-ish defogger as it has similar phdef with eviolite and just 252 HP, but much more speed. Less offensive presence but im not sure if thatll actually make a difference whereas Speed is huge when you get the jump on mesprit, skunk, av chan (!) etc. Superpower might be interesting, i know people were talking about a sort of malamar-like restalk set, shame grass is an awful typing, but physical does annoy a lot of specials checks (mag/av chan/drampa).

I don't know why people are hyping up Crabominable when its still as bad as before.

Stall has an enormous buff with Defog, as by the looks of it it may no longer need to run Natu which frees up a slot for something with actual offensive presence. Altaria might be nice since it can also hard check magmortar, and a silvally form might be ok with heal bell support (since you rly need an attack/pivot move/rest), but you still have all the old options (perish song defog chimecho tho).

I doubt overall there will a too huge impact on the meta though, outside of individual mons getting, as even with more defoggers spikes are still incredible. More likely we will just get more drops from NU (almost defo claydol) and maybe lose stuff (but non of the most relevant mons got big buffs)
 
#17
Swanna now gets Liquidation, meaning it finally has a physical water stab that isn't Dive.
This lets Swanna easily swap between running Brave Bird and Liquidation vs Hurricane and Scald, due to it's attack stat being the same as its special attack (87). Not to mention both those physical stab moves are just that extra bit more powerful as well. Can forgo defog on the physical set and sweep with z-mirror move! Or make it mixed... just the addition of 1 attack really helped Swannas options a bunch.


Gogoat gets Grassy Terrain, so it can now activate its own HA, Grassy Pelt. We will probably still never see any Gogoats but it's nice to know he can finally use his own ability.

Simisear gets Flare Blitz. Much better than Fire Punch. Its physical coverage moves are a bit different than Rapidash's. Probably will never see the light of day along with Gogoat.

For my third useless mon, I want to mention Cutiefly. 84 Speed with Sticky Web and Defog and Powder. Add in U-turn and maybe it can be a decent ok niche substandard fun mon. At least it has a better typing than any other Sticky Web user.


added edit: Prankster Defog Cottonee!
 
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#18
Noteworthy Things I spotted
+ Throat Chop

means that hitmonchan now has a reliable dark type move to smack spinblockers. I could see darkinium z hitmonchan ran as a lure to nuke obvious spinblocker switches since it is 1 time use 160 BP dark type move. At the same time ice punch already hit most of the common spinblockers such as pallossand, golurk, oricorio-sensu for supereffective damage. Also parting shot is a sound move so if a hitmonchan hits a silvally on the switch or something it can't parting shot for 2 turns.
+ Belly Drum
I could see Zangoose moving up to NU with this addition as a worse linoone. It doesn't even care about toxic boost anymore just setup belly drum and sweep. +6 STAB quick attack is a fierce combo for offense to deal with especially considering it is base 90 speed meaning it naturally outspeeds almost all balance mons which get destroyed by +6 knock off & close combat. And quick attack outprioritizes hitmonchan's mach punch. Really only downside is how frail zangoose is.
Zangoose @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Immunity
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Belly Drum
- Quick Attack
- Knock Off
- Close Combat/Strong normal stab

+6 252+ Atk Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Archeops: 186-220 (63.9 - 75.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252+ Atk Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mesprit: 253-298 (84 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+6 252+ Atk Zangoose Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skuntank: 363-427 (88.5 - 104.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+6 252+ Atk burned Zangoose Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 123-145 (40.5 - 47.8%) -- 58.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Sableye can spam recover once it has prankster burned it but it is really close to 2hko

Could even see some Belly drum salac berry shenanigans and imagine this in combination with sticky web. Oooo boy
+ Hurricane

More of a funny mon to use I guess but tinted lens specs hurricane has no switchins

252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Noctowl Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Archeops: 288-340 (98.9 - 116.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Noctowl Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 56 SpD Regirock: 192-228 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Noctowl Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Miltank: 184-217 (46.7 - 55%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I'm really looking forward to using the new defoggers and HO suicide lead lycanroc w/ endeavor assuming it stays PU.

Also I can already see the low ladder thunder wave + headbutt serene grace sawsbucks

Edit:
Honestly now that I've looked at it I can actually see Swirlix as a good sticky web setter. No joke

+ Sticky Web

Swirlix @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Sticky Web
- Magic Coat
- Endeavor
- Dazzling Gleam/Copycat/Yawn/

Its stats are completely mediocre but it has a niche. Against lead taunters like lycanroc or archeops it can just spam magic coat preventing rocks & taunt until they are eventually forced to attack. Any attack is going to bring swirlix down to sash because its defenses are trash which triggers unburden meaning you outspeed the lead taunter and can get off webs guaranteed provided it's not lead lycanroc with accelerock.

Max speed invested swirlix reaches 216 speed meaning after unburden you get to 432 which outspeeds archeops, lycanroc, and even scarf jolly Passimian. Then if you are still alive you can endeavor to set the opposing mon to 1 hp. Last slot can be a a combination of things. yawn can force switches, copycat can potentially copy rocks which is pretty funny, dazzling gleam means if the lead switches out to a defogger to get rid of webs and you endeavor on the switch you can ko the defogger.

Cottonee could maybe see some use on some HO sun teams probably not as a super serious pick but fun nonetheless.

Cottonee @ Eviolite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Defog
- Encore
- Memento

Also type:null now gets iron defense. With battle armor there is no chance of crit definitely gimmicky but still interesting. Could run max special defense + iron defense + rest to become extremely unkillable but I don't see it having any actual ko-ing power.
 
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#19
I think there are a few defogers that we'll keep that we haven't discussed much, so thought I'd bring them up myself:

Oricorio-Pom-Pom @ Leftovers
Ability: Dancer
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Revelation Dance
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Defog

Baby Zapdos is coming in hot in USUM thanks to it now getting defog. Electric/Flying is already a fantastic defensive typing, but throw in Defog utility as well as recovery and Hurricane and you have the recipe for a very nice mon. 20 speed EVs outspeeds uninvested base 95s like silvally and hits them with Hurricane or revelation dance. Overall, I feel like it has a decent niche after the buff.


Servine @ Eviolite
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 1 Atk
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog
- Synthesis

Servine is also looking like a very nice defogger thanks to its good speed, decent bulk, and access to contrary leaf storm. This niche is currently held by Lurantis, but overall I feel that Servine is the Serperior defogger. Basically, Servine does what Lurantis currently tries to do but arguably better.


Combusken @ Eviolite / Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power Ice
- Defog

Combusken seems to be a decent offensive defogger for teams thanks to its decent special attack, dual stab Fire Blast/Focus Blast, and speed boost allowing it to pick up speed and grab some kills itself. What can I say, it's just Combusken but with Defog.
 
#20
Discussing more defoggers bc I made a whole list of them as soon as the tutors got leaked.

Togetic now gets Defog+Super Luck, which at least means its ability isn't useless if running mono attacking sets but still not much to note.

Now Defog+Play Rough is legal which gives it yet another coverage option to add to its moveset.

Rotom-Fan might have a little niche as a Defogger with momentum but idk what else really, just figured it was worth a mention.


Other stuff:

Floatzel now gets Liquidation which is slightly stronger than Waterfall so why not?

This thing got a bunch of fun new toys with Gunk Shot, Knock Off, and Heat Wave. Could see a Sheer Force set with like Gunk, Knock, Brave Bird, Heat Wave/U-turn or something idk, don't quote me, it's late when writing this.

Dibs bird now has Icy Wind for BoltBeam coverage. Though it's weak, it does have CM and could even use an Icium Z if you wanted.

Okay so tutor moves may not have been as huge for this, though Drill Run is cool. But this thing's signature Z-move looks pretty cool so we'll see.

Type: Null @ Eviolite
Ability: Battle Armor
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Swords Dance
- Frustration
- Rest

this thing about to be unkillable


Additional closing thoughts:
Palossand and Passimian are going to NU as soon as the first stats come out imo.
 
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#21
  1. Lycanroc Midday finally gets a good Ground move. Sure it's not EQ but it's something right?? (feelsbad for Midnight)
  2. Floatzel got Liquidation. Its physical set has slightly improved.
  3. Lurantis gets Superpower. The new Malamar but a Grass-type. Let's see how it goes.
  4. Mudsdale gets SR. Makes it more versatile. Not sure how much this will help it but it's a very good move to have.
  5. Hakamoo gets Drain Punch. Still gonna suck lets be honest.
  6. Finally, Silvally. Outrage is probably going to buff Silvally-Dragon the most. Might see more of those on ladder.
 
#22
I'm guessing no one wants to touch this with a barge pole?



Pyukumuku now gets block. Coupled with being the only viable unaware mon on stall builds, and the fact that it only needed three of its moves (Soak, Recover, Toxic) , block is legit on it. It deals with Pokemon that try to double switch around, either to gain momentum or to reset toxic turns, and if it successfully blocks something that cannot beat pyukumuku 1v1, it toxic stalls them down. I'm sure this will make pyukumuku a much more serious threat on stall builds.

Also somehow carnivine got defog. Won't be good, but I'm just confused why it does.
 

Attachments

#23
Just to clariy, is Lycanroc2 the midday, midnight or dusk forme?

Sucks that Silvally didn't get Superpower, or any useful Ground coverage. If it just had Earthquake that would make it so much better. One of the most dissapointing Pokemon IMO.

Stakataka could be interesting when (if?) it drops to PU. It can set its own Trick Room, and has the strongest Gyro Ball in existance. For the most part it'll be outclassed by Aggron, but it might be viable.

Stakataka @ Rockium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
IVs: 14 Def, 0 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Trick Room lets you outrun everything, Gyro Ball is the main STAB, hitting everything with 187 or more speed for the full 150 base power. Stone Edge does more reliable damage; with Rockium Z you get a 180 BP Continental Crush that can kickstart Beast Boost. Earthquake rounds out the coverage, hitting opposing Steel types. EVs give Attack one more point than Defence, meaning Beast Boost will boost Attack by 1 stage on every KO.
 
#24
I don't think Stakataka is going to be PU. Honestly I feel like people are getting way too hung up on it's steel/rock typing and not enough to it having the strongest gyro ball in the game which has no immunities off of an attack stat higher than terrakion and it can set up it's own trick room.

I feel like it would be a similar scenario to explouds brief visit to NU. A pokemon that has offers not a phenomenal amount of defensive utility but just nukes everything with trick room up with a very spammable stab with no immunities. Stakataka would have better checks/counters arguably. I think ferroseed walls it, gurdurr, carracosta, weezing, qwilfish, etc. make decent checks. But Stakataka can also setup its own trick room, and gets an attack boost every kill if running the lonely set.

Stakataka @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Lonely Nature
IVs: 15 Def / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball

Also ChrystalFalchion not that it really matters but you can run 15 defense IVs. This will give it a tied attack stat and defense stat of 397 and if a pokemon has a tied attack & defensive stat for highest stat beast boost will boost attack.

Honestly though I think Brave Stakataka would be better. You are forfeiting the pseudo-moxie boost but you aren't hurting your own defense stat and brave seriously boosts the power of gyro ball its most spammable move even further. The defense boost is actually nice for mitigating damage from priority like sucker, aqua jet, or mach punch.

Mesprit dies 100% unless full physically defensive
252+ Atk Life Orb Bastiodon Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mesprit: 339-399 (93.1 - 109.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yes even against trick room min speed Alolan Exeggutor Gyro ball is a 104 BP move if Brave. 91 if lonely.
252+ Atk Life Orb Bastiodon Gyro Ball (104 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor-Alola: 281-331 (71.3 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Bastiodon Gyro Ball (91 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Exeggutor-Alola: 246-290 (62.4 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

If trick room is up Fully defensive Weezing can't even switch in without being 2HKOd
252+ Atk Life Orb Bastiodon Gyro Ball (125 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Weezing: 187-222 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Better break out your defensive carracostas
252+ Atk Life Orb Bastiodon Gyro Ball (144 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Carracosta: 265-313 (91.6 - 108.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
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#25
Just to clariy, is Lycanroc2 the midday, midnight or dusk forme?

Sucks that Silvally didn't get Superpower, or any useful Ground coverage. If it just had Earthquake that would make it so much better. One of the most dissapointing Pokemon IMO.

Stakataka could be interesting when (if?) it drops to PU. It can set its own Trick Room, and has the strongest Gyro Ball in existance. For the most part it'll be outclassed by Aggron, but it might be viable.

Stakataka @ Rockium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
IVs: 14 Def, 0 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Trick Room
- Gyro Ball
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Trick Room lets you outrun everything, Gyro Ball is the main STAB, hitting everything with 187 or more speed for the full 150 base power. Stone Edge does more reliable damage; with Rockium Z you get a 180 BP Continental Crush that can kickstart Beast Boost. Earthquake rounds out the coverage, hitting opposing Steel types. EVs give Attack one more point than Defence, meaning Beast Boost will boost Attack by 1 stage on every KO.
Lycanroc is midday lycanroc, Lycanroc 1 is midnight lycanroc and lycanroc 2 is lycanroc dusk.

For the record, I seriously doubt with tough claws and edgequake that lycanroc dusk will drop here, or stay here for that matter. The boost given by tough claws is significant to doing stuff like ohkoing floatzel with accelrock at +2 + sr/spikes/life orb damage or 2hkoing gurdurr with zen headbutt after slight chip or spikes damage. Lycanroc will certainly be better, though it still gets walled by the same ground types and fighting types. Shame drill run isn't more significant here as our best and most relevant steel type is not weak to it.
 
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