Resource USUM PU Viability Rankings

Oh boy time to discuss some C mons


Articuno C -> Higher: Agreed (Sorta on the fence with B, but B- or C+ for sure)

People tend to dismiss this mon for its glaring Stealth Rock weakness and seemingly poor defensive typing, and don't really look at what it can do. Unlike last generation, we actually have the luxury of good hazard removers (two of which are in S) and so it's not as much of a struggle to bring in Articuno as it's made out to be. Secondly, it's the fastest and most reliable Freeze-Dry user, and along with Hurricane it's nearly unresisted. SubRoost creates monstrously bulky subs with 90/100/125 defenses, and with Pressure can actually beat checks like Magmortar by draining it completely of Fire Blasts within 4 turns.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-651865195 A bit of a hax-y battle, but Articuno absolutely steamrolled once its checks were weakened



Misdreavus UR -> B-/C+: Agreed

Don't wanna reiterate too much, but with three nifty immunities and solid defenses augmented with Eviolite and Will'o'Wisp, and a useable Nasty Plot set, it definitely holds its own along with the likes of Sableye and Sensu, so I don't see why this shouldn't be ranked.


Metang: C- -> C: Agreed (Hell, I'd even support C+ or B-)

The lack of Levitate is the only reason why this thing isn't used over Bronzor. It has overall better bulk, still has a useful ability for nullifying Intimidate, it's not forced to be played super passively and it isn't dead weight versus Taunt users or Steel types. Oh, and it can Pursuit trap. Raise this mon pls.


Ninetales C+ -> Lower: Disagreed

Yeah, with the popularity of Pyroar and Magmortar it makes this mon seem utterly pointless in return. I think it's a good middle ground between the two imo with Magmortar's movepool and Pyroar's speed. Fast setup is nice, and so is Energy Ball and Psyshock hitting would-be answers like Gastrodon and AV Hitmonchan. Base 81 Special Attack is unimpressive, but it's not an issue when it's at +2 and it's hitting most things for at least neutral damage.


Random quick nom:


Beartic: D -> UR

Only really "usable" on Rain since A. Hail isn't as spammable as it was in alpha and B. It's outclassed by every other offensive Ice type in the tier on its own, and it's absolutely atrocious. It's slow as hell, lacks any helpful coverage outside of Fighting, it's a Rain sweeper that's walled by Fire types, and its role can easily be filled by a mon with Ice coverage, like Gorebyss or Ludicolo. Its conventionally high attack stat is undermined by the fact that none of its moves bar Aqua Jet can be rain boosted.

252 Atk Beartic Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally: 145-172 (43.8 - 51.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Silvally in Rain: 286-339 (86.4 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Kabutops Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Silvally in Rain: 187-222 (56.4 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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I've noticed that there is a sort of "clean-up crew" effort among the community to try to make the C and D ranks less crowded. Perhaps I can provide some assistance?

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Gabite: D ---> Unranked
This honestly has way too difficult of a time distinguishing itself from all the rockers in the tier. One could say that it's a rocker that beats Skuntank, but the thing is, Colbur Berry Golurk already does this, and does the role better: Gabite doesn't even outspeed Skuntank, missing the mark by 2 points. I guess it has a niche in beating Magmortar, but it can't switch in.

252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gabite: 151-178 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gabite has an extremely tiny, inconsistent niche as a rocker, to the point where it is not worth using. Remember, by using this as your rocker, you're trading away the unparalleled versatility of Mesprit, the nice combo of offenses and bulk of Golurk, and the useful defensive utility of Metang and Bronzor.

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Vigoroth: C+ ---> C- or D
Worse Type: Null. Yes, it has coverage, including priority. But what's the point when your Attack is too low to make use of it? But maybe I shouldn't compare it to Type: Null. Perhaps a fast attacking set could work? Nope, that's just a worse Zangoose. This mon is the epitome of Pokemon that look decent on paper, but are piss awful in practice.

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Camerupt: C- ---> Unranked
Somebody already touched upon this, but in short, it sucks.

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Lumineon: C- ---> Unranked
Lumineon had a point in ORAS when hazard removal was a luxury. Nowadays, there is too much competition for the spot, and Lumineon does not stand out. It has Scald, I guess? Yeah, no, not good enough. If I want a Defogger that can U-turn pivot, I'll use Archeops.
 

Twix

is this a dog or a bear
is a Contributor to Smogon
I've noticed that there is a sort of "clean-up crew" effort among the community to try to make the C and D ranks less crowded. Perhaps I can provide some assistance?

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Gabite: D ---> Unranked
This honestly has way too difficult of a time distinguishing itself from all the rockers in the tier. One could say that it's a rocker that beats Skuntank, but the thing is, Colbur Berry Golurk already does this, and does the role better: Gabite doesn't even outspeed Skuntank, missing the mark by 2 points. I guess it has a niche in beating Magmortar, but it can't switch in.

252+ SpA Magmortar Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gabite: 151-178 (54.5 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gabite has an extremely tiny, inconsistent niche as a rocker, to the point where it is not worth using. Remember, by using this as your rocker, you're trading away the unparalleled versatility of Mesprit, the nice combo of offenses and bulk of Golurk, and the useful defensive utility of Metang and Bronzor.
While I agree with some of the other nominations, I really think that Gabite still has a niche in the current metagame. While it does beat skuntank, which you acknowledged, it's also annoying for physical attackers due to rough skin with access to Stealth Rocks. In addition, it's one of the only rockers not weak to either Grass- or Water-type attacks, which could allow it to get up rocks in situations where other rockers cannot. I just think that it just slides out a niche in the current metagame due to these circumstances. I recently built a team around this set:


Gabite @ Eviolite
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Roar

I also think that the access to Roar is really cool as a phaser as it's generally not very weak to many set up mons and it can just phase them out. Gabite is strong enough to take a hit and get up rocks, which is very good. In addition, its amazing base 82 Speed allows it to hit 200 uninvested, making it faster than max speed rockers such as Mawile, Aggron, and Golem with much more bulk. In addition it has access to cool tech such as Fire Blast (can 2hko ferrro w some investment) which can make it kinda unpredictable.

tl;dr: although Gabite is not a top-tier rocker, it gives itself enough of a niche to warrant a ranking.
 
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Vigoroth > Lower : Disagree


I've seen people talk about nomming this down and nowhere do they mention any positives that give it its actual niche above Type: Null. Reliably recovery alongside an immunity to sleep actually helps it deal with Lilligant and Jynx slightly easier, access to reliably recovery in Slack Off allows it to stay healthy without relying on shaky Sleep Talk rolls and being a fast Pokémon with Taunt also means things like Weezing or slower Qwilfish can't easily abuse you. Also getting Bulk Up makes it a slightly sturdier win condition in comparison to Type: Null. Overall Type: Null does have more going for it, but I'd be dammed if this drops from its current rank because people don't understand what its niche actually is.


Skuntank > A+: Strongly Disagree

A check to both Mesprit and Jynx, the best hazard remover in the tier and also being the only hazard remover to absorb Toxic Spikes upon entry is why this Pokémon is in S rank. It's stupidly splashable at the moment, especially when it has several viable sets ranging from Choice Band to Special Defog. I'm really unsure what prompted this nomination but at this point in time it's certainly living up to what an S rank Pokémon should.


Tangela > Somewhere Higher (like B- tbh): Agree

I've been messing around with Tangela and its bulk seriously surprised me. The defensive set is able to blanket check almost every physical attacker in the tier and access to Regenerator alongside reliable recovery makes it a great utility Pokémon. In a game versus Galbia I was able to win solely thanks to how much bulk it had, allowing me to basically 1v1 his Archeops towards the end too. Really solid defensive pivot that is extremely underrated in the current meta.
 
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It would be nice if people wouldn't nominate mons for Unranked if they have never used the mon or don't know what it does. Every pokemon was added on the Viability Rankings for a reason- the ranking team didn't just dump all the pokemon in PU on the list. True, some of those reasons might be outdated or just not relevant, but it's better to at least know their "niche" instead of wasting your time with Theorymonning.
 
The VR discussion is forever good, so here's my 2 cents on some stuff that's been mentioned:

Bronzor from C to C+ - Strongly Agree
Zard said about replays being needed to help back up this nomination, so i'm here to help with replays from my PUtrid games. Although it's using tiny team, and therefore not using the regular Bronzor set (reflect over stealth rocks), the replays still highlight Bronzors strengths imo.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-649042396 vs HJAD
From preview the main threats to Bronzor are the Skuntank (obviously), Stoutland with crunch and Sandslash if it's carrying knock off, which turned out to be toxic instead and therefore was walled. Throughout the game Bronzor is able to come in on Type:Null to keep it low and force it to rest, whilst also forcing HJAD to have to play offensively with Skuntank. It shows off it's defensive prowess as a normal type resist, only taking 36% from a toxic boosted facade from Stoutland, allowing the team to toxic stall it further until it's knocked out by Oricorio Pom-Pom. With Stoutland gone, and Sandslash's set scouted it was down to Skuntank to beat Bronzor. Due to this, HJAD has to aggressively double to try and pursuit trap it, which I call out twice and earth power with Gastrodon. From then Bronzor won.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-649104471 vs General Annoyance
Again Bronzor walls half the team in Lilligant, Mesprit and Regirock but has to maneuver around Skuntank. Fortunately, we trade Skuntank for Skuntank fairly early, allowing Bronzor to beat HP fire Lilligant with toxic stall, even after a healing wish. Because of this GA lost to the combination of Bronzor Clefairy late game.

I'm a huge fan of Bronzor simply because it's an insane amount of role compression. As Galbia has said before, it's lazy building because you can slap it on a team and immediately have better match-ups against a bunch of threats without any real thought. Even with Skuntanks presence in the meta it's able to function around it, although it does require team support and careful play for this to be realistically doable.

Skuntank from S to A+ - HELL NO
This nom down made me pretty mad, not gonna lie. I've voiced my opinion on this on Discord a bunch, with most of my opinion already being expressed in Galbia's post and Jklioe's post. TLDR in my eyes Skuntank is essential glue keeping the tier together, easily being the 2nd best mon for teambuilding with. It's the definition of role compression with so much utility that is essential for the meta, especially with regards to t-spike absorbing and hazard control. Everything that it helps to check is a high priority threat that requires multiple checks to actually be stopped, so I 100% agree that Skuntank is being relied on too much to do everything instead of people building against threats appropriately.


Primeape from A to A+ - Strongly Agree
Speaking of the top 2 mons for teambuilding with, here is the 3rd. Primeape is the tier's best form of speed control and should be treated as such. It's a fighting type that isn't bothered by Qwilfish, and people are slowing down on Weezing usage to make room for Qwilfish instead. It's great against the common offense builds in the tier, as the playstyle currently relies on sets such as quiver dance Lilligant, which is outsped and revenged at +1, and z-lovely kiss Jynx which is forced to win a tie. It holds so much power on the speed tier game that unconventional scarfers likes Swanna and Alolan-Dugtrio are instantly more viable because of Primeapes strength. Crown our king scarfer.


Eelektross from B to B+ - Agree, potentially to A-
This mon is ridiculously annoying. It's base stats combined with assault vest and levitate make it really hard to threaten, allowing it to abuse it's near perfect coverage to chip away at bulky teams trying to pivot against it or to just outright beat mons 1v1 against offense. It even has knock off to cripple mons who are reliant on eviolite such as Clefairy and Type:Null, our most reliable spDef walls.

Misdreavus from unranked to B-/C+ - Agree, although favoring C+ more
I tested Misdreavus for a teambuilding lab request and it actually tested well. The mon is a reliable spin blocker and provides good utility in will-o-wisp and taunt to help justify it being used, most importantly helping teams to reliably check Musharna and Type:Null. Burning incoming Skuntanks with will-o-wisp is especially nice for team-mates since so many mons appreciate Skuntank being crippled, such as Mesprit, Lilligant and Alolan-Raichu. Overall the mon deserves more exploration, and definitely deserves better than being urnanked. Until this happens C+ seems fitting.

Here's my own nom:


Dusknoir from D to C+
I feel like D rank really undersells what Dusknoir is able to provide as as a soft check to fighting types and an offensive spin blocker. As I said before, offense commonly relies on squishy, fast set-up mons, and none of these really appreciate the strong shadow sneak that Dusknoir has. The best and most commonly used ghost resist is Skuntank which is threatened by earthquake. Overall the meta largely favours hazard stack teams, and Dusknoir is both good on and against these style of teams.
 
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D --> C / C+

I disagree with unranking Gabite; this wouldn't be accurate to its current place in the meta. Instead, I'm actually going to nom it higher than D, to C / C+. I played with this a fair bit in beta and have built with it recently, so trust me when I tell you this is extremely underrated.

With Attack investment and a Jolly nature, it is able to OHKO some of the most common Pokemon in the meta right now with its STAB EQ, namely Magmortar, offensive Qwilfish, and Skuntank. It's a great switch-in to Fire-types like Magmortar and Pyroar, and with Special Defense investment, AV Magmortar's Fire Blast becomes a 5HKO. Attack invested Dragon Claw is also nice for putting a huge dent in Drampa and Alolan Exeggutor, and only needs a small amount of chip to secure the KO.

To add to this, it functions well as a Volt stop, given that most people are running Hidden Power Grass on their Electric-types for Gastrodon rather than Hidden Power Ice. This lends to its ability to whittle down Eelektross with Toxic, Dragon Claw, and SR, and it basically walls Zebstrika and Manectric. Twix touched on this already, but it's got a lot of variability, with bulky defensive sets also finding use in stopping physical attackers like Lycanroc and Aggron. Its regular use of Toxic basically means that its switch-ins, outside of Bronzor and Weezing, are hard-pressed to take advantage of Gabite without some cost to their longevity, while the Pokemon that counter Gabite are extremely passive and easy to build for. For example, Skuntank counters Bronzor and Pursuit-traps it for Gabite, while Weezing can be easily dispatched by any special breaker or sweeper, with Jynx and Alolan Raichu as examples. Finally, Roar is useful for phazing in a meta that's rife with entry hazards, due to the presence of Qwilfish and Ferroseed. If anything, I'd argue that Gabite has made the transition from ORAS to SM smoothly because its use capitalizes on current trends in teambuilding.
252 Atk Gabite Dragon Claw vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Drampa: 236-278 (72.1 - 85%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Gabite Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Drampa: 236-278 (79.4 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (Max Speed Modest Drampa)

252 Atk Gabite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 354-416 (121.6 - 142.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Gabite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Qwilfish: 290-344 (107 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Offensive Qwilfish)
-1 252 Atk Gabite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Qwilfish: 194-230 (71.5 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (after Intimidate on Offensive Qwilfish)

252 Atk Gabite Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Skuntank: 354-416 (102 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Magmortar Fire Blast vs. 176 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gabite: 66-78 (20.5 - 24.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 176 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Gabite: 135-159 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+2 252 Atk Lycanroc Stone Edge(Continental Crush) vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 169-199 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Aggron Head Smash vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 75-89 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- 78.4% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 120-142 (37.3 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Head Smash vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 112-132 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 180-213 (56 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Aggron Ice Punch vs. 176 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gabite: 300-356 (93.4 - 110.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
 
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The VR discussion is forever good, so here's my 2 cents on some stuff that's been mentioned:

Bronzor from C to C+ - Strongly Agree
Zard said about replays being needed to help back up this nomination, so i'm here to help with replays from my PUtrid games. Although it's using tiny team, and therefore not using the regular Bronzor set (reflect over stealth rocks), the replays still highlight Bronzors strengths imo.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-649042396 vs HJAD
From preview the main threats to Bronzor are the Skuntank (obviously), Stoutland with crunch and Sandslash if it's carrying knock off, which turned out to be toxic instead and therefore was walled. Throughout the game Bronzor is able to come in on Type:Null to keep it low and force it to rest, whilst also forcing HJAD to have to play offensively with Skuntank. It shows off it's defensive prowess as a normal type resist, only taking 36% from a toxic boosted facade from Stoutland, allowing the team to toxic stall it further until it's knocked out by Oricorio Pom-Pom. With Stoutland gone, and Sandslash's set scouted it was down to Skuntank to beat Bronzor. Due to this, HJAD has to aggressively double to try and pursuit trap it, which I call out twice and earth power with Gastrodon. From then Bronzor won.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-649104471 vs General Annoyance
Again Bronzor walls half the team in Lilligant, Mesprit and Regirock but has to maneuver around Skuntank. Fortunately, we trade Skuntank for Skuntank fairly early, allowing Bronzor to beat HP fire Lilligant with toxic stall, even after a healing wish. Because of this GA lost to the combination of Bronzor Clefairy late game.

I'm a huge fan of Bronzor simply because it's an insane amount of role compression. As Galbia has said before, it's lazy building because you can slap it on a team and immediately have better match-ups against a bunch of threats without any real thought. Even with Skuntanks presence it the meta it's able to function around it, although it does require team support and careful play for this to be realistically doable.

Skuntank from S to A+ - HELL NO
This nom down made me pretty mad, not gonna lie. I've voiced my opinion on this on Discord a bunch, with most of my opinion already being expressed in Galbia's post and Jklioe's post. TLDR in my eyes Skuntank is essential glue keeping the tier together, easily being the 2nd best mon for teambuilding with. It's the definition of role compression with so much utility that is essential for the meta, especially with regards to t-spike absorbing and hazard control. Everything that it helps to check is a high priority threat that requires multiple checks to actually be stopped, so I 100% agree that Skuntank is being relied on too much to do everything instead of people building against threats appropriately.


Primeape from A to A+ - Strongly Agree
Speaking of the top 2 mons for teambuilding with, here is the 3rd. Primeape is the tier's best form of speed control and should be treated as such. It's a fighting type that isn't bothered by Qwilfish and people are slowing down on Weezing usage to make room for Qwilfish instead. It's great against the strong and common offense builds in the tier, as the playstyle currently relies on sets such as quiver dance Lilligant which is outsped and revenged at +1 and z-lovely kiss Jynx which is forced to win a tie. It holds so much power on the speed tier game that unconventional scarfers likes Swanna and Alolan-Dugtrio are instantly more viable because of Primeapes strength. Crown our king scarfer.


Eelektross from B to B+ - Agree, potentially to A-
This mon is ridiculously annoying. It's base stats combined with assault vest and levitate make it really hard to threaten, allowing it to abuse it's near perfect coverage to chip away at bulky teams trying to pivot against it or to just outright beat mons 1v1 against offense. It even has knock off to cripple mons who are reliant on eviolite such as Clefairy and Type:Null, our most reliable spDef walls.

Misdreavus from unranked to B-/C+ - Agree, although favoring C+ more
I tested Misdreavus for a teambuilding lab request and it actually tested well. The mon is a reliable spin blocker and provides good utility in will-o-wisp and taunt to help justify it being used, most importantly helping teams to reliably check Musharna and Type:Null. Burning incoming Skuntanks with will-o-wisp is especially nice for team-mates since so many mons appreciate Skuntank being crippled, such as Mesprit, Lilligant and Alolan-Raichu. Overall the mon deserves more exploration, and definitely deserves better than being urnanked. Until this happens C+ seems fitting.

Here's my own nom:


Dusknoir from D to C+
I feel like D rank really undersells what Dusknoir is able to provide as as a soft check to fighting types and an offensive spin blocker. As I said before, offense commonly relies on squishy, fast set-up mons, and none of these really appreciate the strong shadow sneak that Dusknoir has. The best and most commonly used ghost resist is Skuntank which is threatened by earthquake. Overall the meta largely favours hazard stack teams, and Dusknoir is both good on and against these style of teams.
Will support Dusknoir and Primeape rise. I think it's a safe bet to say it's the best scarfer in the tier, and with defiant, it can allow its teammates to stack hazards, come in on a defog, and get that nice +2 boost to its attack. Very easy to sweep with after the boost, and I have done so many times. It could even be S rank imo if it weren't for mesprit constantly coming in on its close combats. Full support to A+. As for Dusknoir, it should absolutely rise to C+ or C, although I actually think C+ reflects its viability more. It is a great spinblocker that can dish out solid damage AND tanks hits nicely thanks to its 45/135/135 bulk. It works so well on hazard stack teams with Primeape because it's immune to rapid spin and if the opponent has defog, Primeape can come in and get that boost. I think it should be put at C+ due to its good damage output, its tanking capabilities, spinblocking, and being able to shut down physical attackers with will-o-wisp is icing on the cake.
 
Robert made a post above addressing some of the C/D rank pokemon, but he missed a few that i would like to comment on.

Pyukumuku C- to C+/B-: Pyukumuku counters set up in the tier from mons such as Carracoasta or Gorebyss making them far less viable for that particular battle, also that thing is just bulky as hell and hard to kill in general, paired with reliable recovery makes this mon a slight threat as of now.

Hippopotas C- to D: Hippopotas has one use, sand stream. it has a nice niche in being the only sand setter in the tier, But as of late sand has been far from viable. Now more than ever mons like Jynx and Carracoasta are becoming more popular in the meta, and for the most part those mons do great damage to sand teams.

Beheeyem C- to C+: Super underrated mon with really high special attack and a very fitting ability in analytic. Beheeyem also has decent special defense and does decent work if you pair it with assault vest.

Vigoroth stays at C+: Vigoroth is outclassed by Type null as an sword dance sweeper, but thats not all it brings to the table. Vigoroth get vital spirit which is an better ability now with Jynx freezing mons in their tracks as well as the always annoying Liligant quivering up. Vigoroth also has annoying and disrupting moves such as taunt and yawn that can throw you're opponents strategy off, paired with decent bulk and reliable recovery, Vigoroth isnt out of it yet. ( also gets pursuit which is cool )

Swoobat C- to C: Everyone knows Swoobat's strategy by now, and i still dont think its very good, but ive seen alot of success with it lately tempting me to try it myself.

Ninjask C+ to C-: Let me see, 4x weak to rocks, gets hard countered by mons like Weezing and Regirock, very frail in defenses, base 90 attack which is mediocre at best and lacks good coverage.

Gabite D to UR:
I havent really seen anyone use this thing, and after trying it myself i found out why. Other than rough skin there is no reason to use this mon as it is weak against other rockers such as pilo, pretty frail and has poor offensive stats in base 90 attack. Dragon would usually resist water and grass making it more effective, but that ground type doesnt help at all.

Solrock D to C-: Gets rocks, will-o-wisp, reliable recovery and Also gets levitate making it effective against mons such as Kangaskhan. Has decent coverage in moves such as earth quake, flare blitz, grass knot and acrobatics/ironhead. (Solrock is a physical attacker unlike its counterpart Lunatone)

Beartic D to C-: Underrated in rain teams as it provides good coverage and hits types and certain mons that pokemon in rain such as Ludicolo and Kubutops struggle with, Liligant and Gastro are two examples.

Glaceon UR to D: Glaceon has poor typing with rocks and rock types being common in the tier, but is worth moving up because of its Z-celebrate set which adds on to its already amazing special attack and respectable bulk.

Fraxure UR to D: Fraxure has a base 117 attack and good defensive typing. This thing could easily sweep you with dragon dance and mold breaker if you're not careful. Also gets powerful stab in outrage that definitely murders at +1. (poison jab for fairy types, which aren't that common anyway).

I would appreciate if other people gave insight on their thoughts about my opinion on the following Pokemon above.
 

Metang C- -> C+, possibly higher (I'd rate it around B, personally, but I would understand any skepticism towards it) - I just wanted to chime in real quick on this mon, since I've been using it a bunch recently and bloody hell has it outperformed my expectations for it. I went in assuming it'd be a slightly less passive Bronzor, with the same awkward weaknesses but without the bulk and an added weakness to ground moves. While it does have some awkward weaknesses, it's far more proactive in dealing with them than Bronzor. Its base 75 atk isn't fantastic but STAB Meteor Mash gets it some nice neutral coverage and that plus Earthquake gives Metang its biggest benefit over Bronzor in that Skuntank cannot switch in safely against Metang ever. It also serves as one of the best checks to Jynx in the metagame, being resistant to both of its STABs. Jynx also fails to be able to run any relevant coverage for Metang, since even +2 Focus Blast fails to do upwards of 70% to 252/0 Metang. It's also capable of stomaching hits from Lilligant (another premier sweeper in the meta right now) and while it does have to watch out for HP Fire if Metang has taken no prior damage it's only a 58.2% chance to 2HKO at +1 after SR when Meteor Mash is always a 2HKO on Lilligant. Metang is also a complete counter to Earthquake-less Archeops, taking less than 1/4 from Acrobatics. Earth Power fails to 2HKO Metang, and while Earthquake can, if Archeops uses any other move on the switch in stead Metang always live EQ and KOs back with Meteor Mash. It does all this while being a blanket physical check, while being able to set up SR and having some ambiguity in what it runs since it can have any combination of Meteor Mash, Earthquake, Bullet Punch, Toxic, and Pursuit.


4 SpA Archeops Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Metang: 116-138 (35.8 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Jynx Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Metang: 108-128 (33.3 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Jynx Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Metang: 192-227 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (I know this isn't really relevant but it says a lot about Metang's bulk)
252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Metang: 112-133 (34.5 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Life Orb Abomasnow Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Metang: 117-140 (36.1 - 43.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and hail damage
252+ Atk Skuntank Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Metang: 152-182 (46.9 - 56.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Raichu-Alola Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Metang: 247-292 (76.2 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
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Not deleting because the answer you got is pretty informative
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Grumpig: C ---> C+

This mon is so underrated. In a meta filled to the brim with powerful Special attackers, Grumpig has no problem taking them on with a combination of it's special bulk and Thick Fat. Grumpig isn't a sitting duck, either: It has a large offensive movepool including moves like Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Psychic, Psyshock, Energy Ball and Power Gem, along with a usable 90 Special Attack. Don't get me wrong, it definitely faces competition from Magmortar. However, Grumpig's nice lies in checking threats that Magmortar cannot, such as Jynx (It can be EV'd to live +2 Psyshock) basically any specially offensive Water type, Hitmonchan and Piloswine. This doesn't come with a ton of opportunity cost either: Grumpig can also check things Magmortar can, like special Fire Pokemon. If Vigoroth can be ranked in spite of Type: Null and Zangoose existing due to having an easier time against a couple of things that Null struggles with, then I see no reason for Grumpig to not receive a promotion.
 

Teddeh

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Grumpig: C ---> C+

This mon is so underrated. In a meta filled to the brim with powerful Special attackers, Grumpig has no problem taking them on with a combination of it's special bulk and Thick Fat. Grumpig isn't a sitting duck, either: It has a large offensive movepool including moves like Shadow Ball, Focus Blast, Psychic, Psyshock, Energy Ball and Power Gem, along with a usable 90 Special Attack. Don't get me wrong, it definitely faces competition from Magmortar. However, Grumpig's nice lies in checking threats that Magmortar cannot, such as Jynx (It can be EV'd to live +2 Psyshock) basically any specially offensive Water type, Hitmonchan and Piloswine. This doesn't come with a ton of opportunity cost either: Grumpig can also check things Magmortar can, like special Fire Pokemon. If Vigoroth can be ranked in spite of Type: Null and Zangoose existing due to having an easier time against a couple of things that Null struggles with, then I see no reason for Grumpig to not receive a promotion.
Almost everything about this nomination is logically flawed.
"Don't get me wrong, it definitely faces competition from Magmortar."
Firstly, the main competition for grumpig in this tier is mesprit, not magmortar. I can semi-understand the logic of using magmortar as a fire switch in, but it is definitely not the case in this example. Secondly, you've just listed coverage it gets, when grumpig's main niche on the ranking system is its access to taunt / heal bell, which gives it niche over mesprit. Whilst I agree, thick fat is a good ability, you're completely overlooking the fact that it's complete skuntank fodder, as it may easily get pursuit trapped due to its pitiful defensive stat, and fitting grumpig onto teams is rather hard. I also don't like how you've literally only said that its niche is living +2 psyshock and not being weak to water, which is again not what grumpig does and you're talking far too subjectively for a logical viability nomination. Overall when I use a psychic type in the tier, it's to check fighting types / psychic types and to have some counter-play to skuntank. I feel that since mesprit does the fighting role completely better, as well as role compacting a stealth rocker and u-turn momentum gainer in one slot, I would disagree with grumpig rising.

"If Vigoroth can be ranked in spite of Type: Null and Zangoose existing due to having an easier time against a couple of things that Null struggles with, then I see no reason for Grumpig to not receive a promotion."

I feel like you've almost picked a pokemon at random to nominate higher just so you can use this flawed logic in your argument. Grumpig / vigoroth are COMPLETELY different examples. Vigoroth has niche, in the way it has a large physical bulk, fast speed tier and access to bulk up / taunt / slack off, which gives it a huge niche over type as a taunt user but as a win-con that is rather under the radar. The fact that you've highlighted a completely different nomination as a reason for another pokemon to rise suggests to me that you don't quite understand how the viability ranking system works and I will suggest you lurk more as one pokemon's ranking does not and should not affect another, it is purely viability in the tier. Since you couldn't produce any solid examples of how vigoroth was awful (probably because like many people have suggested already, you haven't used it) or reasons for grumpig to rise other than listing moves it learns and it can act as a fire resist, I think you should resist commenting further.

Sorry if the tone is harsh, but I felt the need to explain why you cannot use this reasoning.
 
Robert made a post above addressing some of the C/D rank pokemon, but he missed a few that i would like to comment on.

Pyukumuku C- to C+/B-: Pyukumuku counters set up in the tier from mons such as Carracoasta or Gorebyss making them far less viable for that particular battle, also that thing is just bulky as hell and hard to kill in general, paired with reliable recovery makes this mon a slight threat as of now.

Hippopotas C- to D: Hippopotas has one use, sand stream. it has a nice niche in being the only sand setter in the tier, But as of late sand has been far from viable. Now more than ever mons like Jynx and Carracoasta are becoming more popular in the meta, and for the most part those mons do great damage to sand teams.

Beheeyem C- to C+: Super underrated mon with really high special attack and a very fitting ability in analytic. Beheeyem also has decent special defense and does decent work if you pair it with assault vest.

Vigoroth stays at C+: Vigoroth is outclassed by Type null as an sword dance sweeper, but thats not all it brings to the table. Vigoroth get vital spirit which is an better ability now with Jynx freezing mons in their tracks as well as the always annoying Liligant quivering up. Vigoroth also has annoying and disrupting moves such as taunt and yawn that can throw you're opponents strategy off, paired with decent bulk and reliable recovery, Vigoroth isnt out of it yet. ( also gets pursuit which is cool )

Swoobat C- to C: Everyone knows Swoobat's strategy by now, and i still dont think its very good, but ive seen alot of success with it lately tempting me to try it myself.

Ninjask C+ to C-: Let me see, 4x weak to rocks, gets hard countered by mons like Weezing and Regirock, very frail in defenses, base 90 attack which is mediocre at best and lacks good coverage.
Gabite D to UR: I havent really seen anyone use this thing, and after trying it myself i found out why. Other than rough skin there is no reason to use this mon as it is weak against other rockers such as pilo, pretty frail and has poor offensive stats in base 90 attack. Dragon would usually resist water and grass making it more effective, but that ground type doesnt help at all.

Solrock D to C-: Gets rocks, will-o-wisp, reliable recovery and Also gets levitate making it effective against mons such as Kangaskhan. Has decent coverage in moves such as earth quake, flare blitz, grass knot and acrobatics/ironhead. (Solrock is a physical attacker unlike its counterpart Lunatone)

Beartic D to C-: Underrated in rain teams as it provides good coverage and hits types and certain mons that pokemon in rain such as Ludicolo and Kubutops struggle with, Liligant and Gastro are two examples.

Glaceon UR to D: Glaceon has poor typing with rocks and rock types being common in the tier, but is worth moving up because of its Z-celebrate set which adds on to its already amazing special attack and respectable bulk.

Fraxure UR to D: Fraxure has a base 117 attack and good defensive typing. This thing could easily sweep you with dragon dance and mold breaker if you're not careful. Also gets powerful stab in outrage that definitely murders at +1. (poison jab for fairy types, which aren't that common anyway).

I would appreciate if other people gave insight on their thoughts about my opinion on the following Pokemon above.
I think hippo is fine at C- I used it on a joke lv1 aron team and I was always surprised by how well it took hits even with the smooth rock and stab E-quake did an acceptable amount

Ninjask is super awful I tryed a few different sets with like swords dance and just can't hit nearly hard enough, it's niche is an unstoppable choice band U-turn and hitting through subs which is really big because it has night slash to smack most sub set-up users supereffectively. It can be cool on balance teams and can put pressure on offense, but should probably drop to C
 

galbia

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Friendly reminder that you should NOT make nominations on Pokémon without having direct experience with them. An exception can be made if the Pokémon has had tournament success and/or you can provide quality replays of someone else using it.

The posts not following the rules have been deleted (with no infraction) but from now on know that you risk a warning.
 
yo i mainly wanted to chime in on costa (won't cover jynx because i pretty much share lst's sentiments)
Carracosta

i wasn't sure about how i felt regarding carracosta for a while, but after a bit of thought, i would like to say that i'm ultimately siding with the position that it merits a placing in s rank.

my thing about carracosta is that it's frightening similar to charizard in how restrictive it is in terms of a reliable way of answering it due to its wide range of options that makes it among the most difficult sweeper to defensively check. everyone loves to talk about how the best set is just shell smash / hydro pump / aqua jet / stone edge, which makes it very easy to gloss over the fact that there are perfectly viable alternatives. there's ice beam (for stuff like gourgeist), hp grass (gastrodon and poliwrath), liquidation (ohkos av chan, generally pretty negligible though since continental crush and lo stone edge can pick off easily after some chip damage too), and superpower/hp fire (ferroseed).

while these options are not mainstream like the standard variant, it ultimately reinforces how much of a huge strain and influence it provokes in teambuilding as just because it can't run all at once, doesn't mean that all of those options can't be viably ran. you still have to prepare for those options, which is virtually impossible because the fact that these options cover all relevant checks results in this "pick and choose what it wants to beat" game that lets it potentially get past practically anything it wants. also, i agree with alfons in that it's wrong to look at it in a "using x move gives up another option" way since carracosta simultaneously functions as both a breaker and a late-game cleaner depending on its team's needs.

the fact that so many teams depend on a scarf user that doesn't die to a boosted a jet is huge for it too. speaking of faster checks/revenge killers, carracosta is kind of a foil to jynx in that regard, as pokemon that are used to pick off jynx are generally strong priority users, primeape (50-50 yeah, but still), and scarf pyroar, whereas most carracosta revenge killers barring scarf mesprit are general less splashable on average outside of specific needs like scarf shiftry.

in terms of its results, flcl vs generalannoyance in round 3 of pupl basically shows how not only the common idea of carracosta having trouble setting up vs offense is a misconception (it can circumstantially set up vs a majority of pokemon, including but not limited to most skuntank, archeops lacking taunt, regirock, piloswine if white herb, various mons like pyroar and primeape locked into, etc.) but also how much of an immense threat it can even pose against fairly well-polished threats even just from team preview. not only that, but this battle and also tricking v feliburn is a good example of how it's also a bit restrictive in terms of how players sometimes have to deviate from going for appropriate move in the right situation (esp when using a choice user) just to avoid letting it set up in the first place. i can't think of any mon that creates those circumstances as much as carracosta does, which goes to show how much of a threat it truly is.

finally, as an s rank supporter, it's worth establishing how it would fare among the rest of the s rank crowd. carracosta clearly doesn't stack up to skuntank or mesprit in terms of splashability, nor does it sport the immediate presence and speed that archeops haves that makes it such a threat. carracosta, in my opinion, still defines the metagame in its own right as the single hardest sweeper to truly prepare for due to its versatility as one, which is why it's able to turn around games in the blink of an eye so well.

some other noms:
Pyukumuku
a stall staple with unaware that makes it probably the best carracosta check in the tier. had some testing, and i personally think its best set is phys def with recover / soak / toxic / taunt, which makes it pretty annoying as it forces a lot of switches (which is good for stall, being a hazard stack playstyle), and can check a myriad of other mons like z-kiss jynx, type: null (with taunt you basically stall this out), lycanroc, sd kabu, sd absol and quite a few others. it's important for so many pokemon that threaten stall, and so i think it merits a rise to about c rank

Kecleon

yo man, this thing is a bit annoying lol, it has so many strong priority options to choose from, can play around potential revenge killers like primeape, and is even bulker than av chan without sacrificing offensive presence, all of which gave it strong role compression that lets it check a lot of stuff. definitely b- rank material for me
 
hi people, i don't normally post vr noms but i wanted to share my thoughts on some mons here


Musharna A+ to A

Mush being A+ at this point in the meta seems a bit too high for me for several reasons. Musharna faces competition with Mesprit as the Psychic mon of choice, which is a lot more splashable during teambuilding and has better immediate offensive presence not to mention an ability to pivot out of opposing Skuntank at least once. While the two may not be comparable directly, since Mush is more a defensive sweeper with reliable recovery, I often found myself replacing/forgoing Musharna with Mesprit on many teams (and many others do too; you hardly see a team w/ mush over mesprit deliberately due to the utility and offensive capabilities Mesprit brings) With the rise in wallbreakers and Musharna's inherent passiveness, it's rather easy for mons like Jynx to set up on it, Magmortar to 2HKO it after rocks damage, Sensu to force it out, even Drampa can come in (outside of a potential Twinkle Tackle) and threaten it out. Mush also lets in Ferroseed in for free to Leech Seed, to which it can then pivot out into something else to deal with it. Lastly, with the abundance of hazards, status, and U-turn Primeape -- I use my Mush to check Fighting types so it sucks when Ape just comes in and u-turns out for 30% --, Mush gets chipped way too easily and is forced to recover instead of actually doing anything throughout the match. For all of these reasons, Mush is worthy of a nomination down to A.


Oricorio-Sensu A to A+

I agree with whoever nominated Oricorio to A+ as it's one of the premiere offensive threats in the tier, thanks to its unrivaled Ghost / Flying offensive coverage. Both sets (Scarf + Flyinium) are terrifying, although I'd argue that the Flyinium set is a lot more effective because of its ability to pick teams apart. But I wanted to focus on how good the matchup Oricorio has against the most common PU mons right now. Running Oricorio gives you an instant Lilligant check, Mesprit / Musharna check, Gurdurr / Hitmonchan check, Weezing check, etc ... and while this may just sound like a list of mons Sensu happens to be good against, the reality is that these mons are on 90% of teams meaning that the meta is very much in Oricorio's favor + is rarely dead weight in a match. Another thing that is notable is that with the rise of Scarf Primeape, a lot of people use it to revenge kill Oricorio (which makes sense). However, it means that it's forced to click Stone Edge, which can pave the way for something else on the team to either set up or take advantage of in a different fashion -- example being something like Primeape vs Oricorio + a Floatzel in the back, and Floatzel lives one Stone Edge from full. Basically my point is that with Oricorio's unique typing and the rise in Scarf Ape, it makes revenge killing Oricorio a tricky business. (i understand the same could be said about other offensive mons being rk'd forcing the opp to be locked into an unfavorable move, but sensu + ape is just one of the most relevant ones atm). Lastly, you cannot deny the immense pressure Oricorio puts on teams that just rely on Lanturn as a switch in, as it gets chipped pretty quickly as well as the power of Supersonic Skystrike, which, if it does not net a KO, will almost always put a dent in something.


Primeape A to A+

I think enough has been said about Primeape, as it is one of the most splashable forms of speed control and can U-turn its way for certain teammates as support. Primeape being able to get through mons like Qwilfish, access to Defiant and ability to pivot out of Poison / Fairy / Flying / Ghost checks early to mid game for chip damage is immensely useful. Overall, the positives of Primeape far outweigh its few negatives. The only sucky thing I have to say about it is how it cannot reliably revenge kill +1 speed Jynx. :blobsad:


Mudsdale C+ to B-

I've used Mudsdale both on stall and bulky offense and it has not dissapointed in either playstyle. Maybe I'm late to the party but CB Mudsdale is incredibly underrated and criminally underused, as Heavy Slam 3HKOs or 2HKOs mons like Mesprit and Weezing (two of the most common Ground checks). In fact, I've rarely clicked any other move but EQ or Heavy Slam because I find Close Combat to be just about useless outside of hitting Piloswine or Miltank super effectively, which get 2HKOed by EQ anyway, and Toxic is just as situational because I am more likely to double switch predicting in an incoming Gourgeist or something for something else to take advantage of but I see its merits. I've even played around with Frustration since it's also pretty good neutral coverage in general. Anyway, basically I feel C+ is way too low for a mon that not only has decent offensive presence, but also respectable defensive presence even when uninvested, with a natural ability to check mons like Lycanroc, Archeops, Skuntank, as well as certain choice locked Electrics. It can hold its own and it's not difficult to fit it on a team and provide some support as compared to a few other C+ mons like Arbok or Electivire; in fact, I'd argue that it's on par or better than a few of the mons in B-, such as Gorebyss (I never see this mon) and Toucannon (I never see this either). I will also give a slight mention to the defensive set which I've had experience with on stall as a great blanket check to a lot of physical mons, and is rather hard to take down when given basic cleric and water/grass/ice support. Definitely deserves to be higher.

--

other quick comments about some of the other noms/mons:

eel to A- (or at least B+): agree - good coverage, decent bulk and a good matchup vs 80% of the tier. knock is nice utility, volt is volt but slow volt is even better for teams that have frail offensive mons, and flamethrower + giga really accentuates its effectiveness in the meta rn. can deal with lanturn which is also just fantastic. i know i didnt state anything super enlightening but eelektross is a very straightforward mon that is surprisingly rarely dead weight.

cuno higher: i decided to test this mon out and after using cuno for a good week or so, it's honestly not as bad as its rank suggests. great bulk and ability to stall shit out is really satisfying. also, like i said with the oricorio nom, flying resists are scarce and articuno can beat a lot of them like lanturn, costa, regi after some chip damage + hazards (can even stall out stone edges), and ferroseed (same deal, stalls out gyro). yes you have to give hazard control support, but pu has plenty of options for those and what team besides ho doesn't run removal?

throh + toucannon: disclaimer, haven't used these mons enough but from my brief experience with them as pu exited beta, they were dissapointments and seeing how throh is B+ and toucannon is B-, i feel they are ranked too high due to combinations of being outclassed: gurdurr doing most everything gurdurr does but better so theres no reason for throh to be that high while toucannon is hard to fit on any team cuz we have better birds like swanna, oricorio, archeops (even cuno!!!) and i dont think mixed boomburst + bullet seed + overheat is that noteworthy.
 
agree with musharna, primeape, and oricorio sensu noms. all of these are pretty straightforward.
musharna just faces competition from mesprit, which is more versatile, and with wallbreakers such as drampa and pokemon that use it as fodder such as ferroseed becoming more popular musharna has become a bit more nichey and hard to put in teams compared to before.

primeape is both the best revengekiller but also one of the best lategame cleaners in the tier right now: it has pretty good coverage, speed and atk, defiant makes qwilfish not an answer and is pretty deadly if you manage to switch ape into a defog(which can happen since skuntank is the most popular defogger). also u-turn is amazing to finish off weakened foes or bring in powerful wallbreakers such as drampa on stuff such as weezing and net a kill.

i usually find oricorio a really nice option if you want a secondary answer to fighting types(and you always do want a secondary fight check), since it also is a solid mon against lilligant and psychic types. it can find setup opportunities just because of the fact that a +1 spdef boost allows it to tank hits, but can also get a free setup on locked revengekillers or weezing, miltank, and other weak walls, and once it does z hurricane almost always nets a kill. also to rkill it you have to lock yourself into moves that are not that favourable such as stone edge, as slowbroth already said. it can also run scarf, which is still very splashable and strong due to the ghost flying typing and coverage that nails most setup sweepers you want to rkill, and is also provided with another very good tool in u-turn.

now for a nomination of my own, i think
could rise to a+. With jynx and oricorio, lilligant is one of the best setup sweepers in the tier. this mon is just crazy good, and almost every game i watch where it is played it always is a big nuisance for the opponent(Lilligant had about 60-70% wr in pupl). It can run three sets, scarf, z grass qd, and z normal qd. Scarf is a decent set can be used if you lack or want an additional answer to water types, also hwish is just amazing support for about almost every pokemon in the tier, especially setup sweepers. But what I want to focus on are its qd sets: Quiver Dance + Sleep Powder are so strong together that allow Lilligant in most games to always get a boost, and at times even two. This is also made easier by Giga Drain which heals for a massive amount with boosts and makes Lilligant not scared of setting up at the cost of being damaged. After a quiver dance Lilligant is able to tank a hit from about any revengekiller, can set up another and then proceed to outspeed, Giga Drain, kill unless it's Oricorio-Ghost, and heal up. Depending on your teams necessities you can either run z energy ball / giga and hp fire, or z hyperbeam and giga drain. I often find myself running Z Hyper Beam since its coverage is much better and honestly is what makes Lilligant deserving of the a+ rank. Z Hyper Beam at +1 let alone at +2 basically annihilates anything that isn't fodder, doesn't die to Giga Drain already, and isn't a Steel-type or a Ghost-type. Pokemon that don't die such as AV Magmortar still take about 70 and are quite easy to chip so there's that. Hyper Beam alone is still quite strong albeit the recharge so it can be used in some circumstances even after you used your z move. This set alone has very few answers, and those few answers outside of Oricorio-Ghost have to still gamble on which Z move Lilligant is running, for example Ferroseed is a good answer to the Z Hyper Beam variant but gets totally nailed by Z Grass which runs Hidden Power Fire.
Replays for Liligant are all over the place, just check PUPL replay thread or others such as GenZeon's rmt.
 
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Megazard

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Got another update for you guys, covers everything from the last one up to but not including Lilligant for A+ because that was just slightly too late. The split below is between the more decent mons, lower rank cleanup and unranking things just for legibility's sake, there was a lot of lower rank cleanup (s/o robert alfons)
Primeape A to A+
Oricorio-Sensu A to A+
Musharna A+ to A
Clefairy B to B+
Pinsir B to B+
Eelektross B to B+
Torterra B+ to B
Articuno C+ to B-
Komala B- to C+
Toucannon B- to C+
Silvally-Ghost B- to C+

Roselia C to C+
Crustle C to C+
Bronzor C to C+
Kecleon C to C+
Misdreavus Unranked to C+
Manectric C+ to C
Regice C+ to C
Ninetales C+ to C
Tangela C- to C
Metang C- to C
Pyukumuku C- to C
Muk C- to C
Dusknoir D to C
Electivire C+ to C-
Basculin C to C-
Camerupt C to C-
Shiinotic C to C-
Marowak C to D
Dusclops C- to D
Solrock D to C-

Relicanth C- to Unranked
Gogoat D to Unranked
Golduck D to Unranked
Silvally D to Unranked
Trevenant D to Unranked

To explain the more random/important stuff: The council is very against dropping Skuntank from S rank. It might not outright sweep teams like Jynx or Carracosta, but that is not the only factor for S rank. It's incredibly strong, our best hazard remover, one of the best partners to half the tier, insanely splashable, and has a lot of good set variability. It's a metagame defining mon, and the council did not agree with arguments from this thread like "not centralizing" or "not effective at its individual roles". Meanwhile Jynx and Carracosta are terrifying sweepers but not quite to the impossible to check level that we've seen from things like Barbaracle in the past. They're great and the ability to run multiple other sets really adds to their spookiness, but some very basic flaws and the inability to quite define the metagame to the degree that you see Mesprit or Archeops shaping it means that they aren't quite ready for S rank.
I believe that the only things we voted on that were never brought up in the thread were dropping Torterra and Komala, and for both I invite you to try to remember the last time you saw a decent team with either of them (other than my Putrid Path replays). They can both run like 5-6 viable sets but face immense competition in all of them, making them much harder to fit on a team than some mons with 1 viable set that has a much better defined niche (e.g. Lurantis). They hang around because of their wide movepools allowing them to perform unique roles, but recent metagame trends (Jynx, Drampa) and the sheer level of competition they face mean that they really needed to drop from a rank they were placed in months ago.
e: I've been told Pinsir was also a council only decision, basically Z-Me First is on the rise as a really incredible boosting sweeper when combined with Moxie, how great its coverage is, and the relative ease with which its checks can be chipped or broken through
Once again you can look at the voting percentages here

Regarding discussion points for next time, there were several nominations that we were 50/50 on: Arbok C+ to C, Chatot C to C-, Hippopotas C- to D, Glaceon Unranked to D, and Fraxure was also left unranked by a 5 to 4 vote. If anyone feels strongly about these and/or has replays, we'd love to get more opinions or replays on some fairly uncommon stuff. Don't forget that there's a new Lilligant nomination above, otherwise go nuts.
 
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Ok so I know what a lot of you are going to think but trust me on this....

I am here to vouch for Delcatty to move to at least the D tier if not C-
With normalize and a silk scarf, Delcatty becomes a powerful revenge killer utilizing its now base 57 power fake out, and its base 100 power sucker punch, before adding in STAB. With its recent speed buff from 70 to 90, Delcatty is now able to out speed the likes of many threats such as hitmonchan's mach punch and combat it with its own sucker punch first. This pokemon can also be utilized as great sticky web counter. Starting with fake out then going into double edge because it will outspeed most leads such as

Ariados

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ariados: 220-261 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Masquerain

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Masquerain: 175-208 (62.2 - 74%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Leavanny

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Leavanny: 216-255 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Not only does it do a good job of stopping sticky web leads, it also takes care of a lot of pokemon late game such as Primeape with the fake out and sucker punch combination

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 84-99 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 144-171 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Overall, Delcatty can be a huge threat that can surprise opponents and catch many fast hard hitting, but frail pokemon off guard, especially after a fake out

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 135-159 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lilligant: 121-144 (43 - 51.2%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroar: 127-150 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 135-159 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 154-183 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

No Delcatty is not a sweeper, but late game it can clean up quite nicely with its surprising amount of power from normalize and with the combination of fake out and sucker punch it is able to take out many threats after stealth rock damage. I hope that some of you will give this little buddy a try. JUSTICE FOR DELCATTY

Below are some replays displaying her power

This one shows how she can be quite the late game sweeper (skip to turn 17):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-652974051

And this one is just funny (watch first two turns then skip to 29):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-653173470

Thanks for reading everyone
 

Megazard

I'll show you the life of the mind!
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Ok no. We're not doing Kricketune again, I don't want 70 people replying to this post
Ok so I know what a lot of you are going to think but trust me on this....

I am here to vouch for Delcatty to move to at least the D tier if not C-
With normalize and a silk scarf, Delcatty becomes a powerful revenge killer utilizing its now base 57 power fake out, and its base 100 power sucker punch, before adding in STAB. With its recent speed buff from 70 to 90, Delcatty is now able to out speed the likes of many threats such as hitmonchan's mach punch and combat it with its own sucker punch first. This pokemon can also be utilized as great sticky web counter. Starting with fake out then going into double edge because it will outspeed most leads such as

Ariados

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ariados: 220-261 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Masquerain

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Masquerain: 175-208 (62.2 - 74%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Leavanny

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Leavanny: 216-255 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Not only does it do a good job of stopping sticky web leads, it also takes care of a lot of pokemon late game such as Primeape with the fake out and sucker punch combination

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 84-99 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 144-171 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Overall, Delcatty can be a huge threat that can surprise opponents and catch many fast hard hitting, but frail pokemon off guard, especially after a fake out

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 135-159 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lilligant: 121-144 (43 - 51.2%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroar: 127-150 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 135-159 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 154-183 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

No Delcatty is not a sweeper, but late game it can clean up quite nicely with its surprising amount of power from normalize and with the combination of fake out and sucker punch it is able to take out many threats after stealth rock damage. I hope that some of you will give this little buddy a try. JUSTICE FOR DELCATTY

Below are some replays displaying her power

This one shows how she can be quite the late game sweeper (skip to turn 17):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-652974051

And this one is just funny (watch first two turns then skip to 29):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-653173470

Thanks for reading everyone
Ok so I know what a lot of you are going to think but trust me on this....

I am here to vouch for Delcatty to move to at least the D tier if not C-
With normalize and a silk scarf, Delcatty becomes a powerful revenge killer utilizing its now base 57 power fake out, and its base 100 power sucker punch, before adding in STAB. With its recent speed buff from 70 to 90, Delcatty is now able to out speed the likes of many threats such as hitmonchan's mach punch and combat it with its own sucker punch first. This pokemon can also be utilized as great sticky web counter. Starting with fake out then going into double edge because it will outspeed most leads such as

Ariados

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ariados: 220-261 (63.9 - 75.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Masquerain

-1 252+ Atk Life Orb Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Masquerain: 175-208 (62.2 - 74%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Leavanny

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Double-Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Leavanny: 216-255 (74.2 - 87.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Not only does it do a good job of stopping sticky web leads, it also takes care of a lot of pokemon late game such as Primeape with the fake out and sucker punch combination

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 84-99 (30.9 - 36.5%) -- 99.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Primeape: 144-171 (53.1 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Overall, Delcatty can be a huge threat that can surprise opponents and catch many fast hard hitting, but frail pokemon off guard, especially after a fake out

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 135-159 (43.9 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lilligant: 121-144 (43 - 51.2%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pyroar: 127-150 (40.5 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Electivire: 135-159 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Silk Scarf Normalize Delcatty Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swoobat: 154-183 (56 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

No Delcatty is not a sweeper, but late game it can clean up quite nicely with its surprising amount of power from normalize and with the combination of fake out and sucker punch it is able to take out many threats after stealth rock damage. I hope that some of you will give this little buddy a try. JUSTICE FOR DELCATTY

Below are some replays displaying her power

This one shows how she can be quite the late game sweeper (skip to turn 17):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-652974051

And this one is just funny (watch first two turns then skip to 29):
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-653173470

Thanks for reading everyone
We are not going to rank Delcatty. What this post fails to understand is that evidence needs to actually differentiate a Pokemon to rank it. Nothing you've shown here demonstrates that Delcatty can do anything that Kangaskhan can't (outside of having a normal type sucker punch to hit hitmonchan I guess). It doesn't address any of the flaws Declatty has, such as being way weaker than Zangoose and having the same bulk or being weaker than Kangaskhan with far less bulk and coverage, or the fact that all it can do is use Normal-type attacks. None of the calcs look particularly good (Jolly Zangoose's Quick Attack is slightly weaker than Sucker Punch while Adamant is slightly stronger so it's still not differentiating itself). Also using evidence showing how Delcatty fares when used on or versus bad teams and bad Pokemon (both replays, calcs vs Ariados lol), and that one replay with Darkrai because why not, does not give people an accurate idea of how Delcatty works in the tier.
We just unranked Silvally which holds a much better niche because it still failed to differentiate itself much from the other good Normal types (free Silvally though). We are not going to rank Delcatty because there is no good competitive reason to use it over Kangaskhan or Zangoose or Pyroar or Miltank or Audino or Drampa or Stoutland or Komala or Kecleon or Raticate-Alola or even Bibarel.
 
Lickitung UR -> D

So obviously Lickitung is not amazing or even good, but I've been experimenting with a set that may give it an actual niche that differentiates it from the hordes of useless mons that populate the lower end of the tier. Eviolite Lickitung with defense investment has the physical bulk to survive strong fighting type attacks from powerful members of the tier like Primeape and Hitmonchan and can OHKO back with counter. This set is designed to lure in hard-hitting fighting types and powerful physical attackers, which will want to switch in on Lickitung due to how cripplingly passive it is. Ideally, you can use Wish on the switch, and then heal up on the same turn you KO a threat, which is extremely satisfying when it works out. If you can pull this off, I've found from experience that Lickitung can then function effectively as a physical wall against the other members of the opponents team, who likely have a worse matchup than whatever they first brought in against it. This, along with counter mind games, lets Lickitung actually pass wishes more effectively than when using its regular set. Also, because of how uncommon Lickitung is currently, people are not really even looking out for counter at all in my experience. I used to run a meme mono normal team in PU, and matches that should've been a 6 turn loss because of scarfed Primeape leads suddenly swung in my favor, highlighting the bait role that Lickitung is good for.

252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While this sounds reasonable, there are some major flaws beyond the aforementioned passiveness of Lickitung. First, in matches where the counter setup doesn't exist, you're basically stuck with a worse Audino. Additionally, using a physically bulky normal mon with counter can also be done with Miltank, possibly with greater success, even though I haven't tested it myself (Miltank and this Lickitung set have very similar physical bulk). I still like the synergy that Wish/Counter have, and being a wish passer gives Lickitung a separate role from Miltank that keeps it from being totally outclassed in my mind. Also, while Lickitung can survive almost any physical fighting attack, the strongest fighting mons in the tier can still secure the 2HKO, which can make switching Lickitung in somewhat difficult, given that it has no useful resistances. Lickilicky is also an option for more power, but I rarely, if ever, find myself just attacking with this set. Lastly, if eviolite is knocked off, then the main advantage of this set as a fighting type lure is ruined, as Lickitung will be KO'd just as easily as any other weak normal type.

To recap, eviolite Lickitung with counter can serve as a fighting type lure in addition to its decent wish passing abilities, differentiating itself from the other normal types in the tier. While this set has the chance to swing matches in addition providing modest support for your team, inherent flaws in Lickitung prevent it from actually being an exceptional mon in the tier. I think the role described is very distinct however, and I think that warrants a D rating.
 

galbia

ARROWHEADS ARROWHEADS ARROWHEADS ARROWHEADS
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PU Leader
Lickitung UR -> D

So obviously Lickitung is not amazing or even good, but I've been experimenting with a set that may give it an actual niche that differentiates it from the hordes of useless mons that populate the lower end of the tier. Eviolite Lickitung with defense investment has the physical bulk to survive strong fighting type attacks from powerful members of the tier like Primeape and Hitmonchan and can OHKO back with counter. This set is designed to lure in hard-hitting fighting types and powerful physical attackers, which will want to switch in on Lickitung due to how cripplingly passive it is. Ideally, you can use Wish on the switch, and then heal up on the same turn you KO a threat, which is extremely satisfying when it works out. If you can pull this off, I've found from experience that Lickitung can then function effectively as a physical wall against the other members of the opponents team, who likely have a worse matchup than whatever they first brought in against it. This, along with counter mind games, lets Lickitung actually pass wishes more effectively than when using its regular set. Also, because of how uncommon Lickitung is currently, people are not really even looking out for counter at all in my experience. I used to run a meme mono normal team in PU, and matches that should've been a 6 turn loss because of scarfed Primeape leads suddenly swung in my favor, highlighting the bait role that Lickitung is good for.

252 Atk Primeape Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Lickitung: 198-234 (51.5 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

While this sounds reasonable, there are some major flaws beyond the aforementioned passiveness of Lickitung. First, in matches where the counter setup doesn't exist, you're basically stuck with a worse Audino. Additionally, using a physically bulky normal mon with counter can also be done with Miltank, possibly with greater success, even though I haven't tested it myself (Miltank and this Lickitung set have very similar physical bulk). I still like the synergy that Wish/Counter have, and being a wish passer gives Lickitung a separate role from Miltank that keeps it from being totally outclassed in my mind. Also, while Lickitung can survive almost any physical fighting attack, the strongest fighting mons in the tier can still secure the 2HKO, which can make switching Lickitung in somewhat difficult, given that it has no useful resistances. Lickilicky is also an option for more power, but I rarely, if ever, find myself just attacking with this set. Lastly, if eviolite is knocked off, then the main advantage of this set as a fighting type lure is ruined, as Lickitung will be KO'd just as easily as any other weak normal type.

To recap, eviolite Lickitung with counter can serve as a fighting type lure in addition to its decent wish passing abilities, differentiating itself from the other normal types in the tier. While this set has the chance to swing matches in addition providing modest support for your team, inherent flaws in Lickitung prevent it from actually being an exceptional mon in the tier. I think the role described is very distinct however, and I think that warrants a D rating.
Lickitung's ""niche"" is extremely small in the PU metagame since any Normal-type/Regirock with chople Berry can do the same job much better with additional utility so it's not getting ranked. I appreciate the lengthy explanation you gave but the next post of this kind will get deleted/infracted.
 
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In these troubling times, LST is here to make the VR thread Great Again tm.

Chatot C to C- Agree
As a scarfer, Chatot has a pretty terrible speed tier, losing out to a bunch of relevant things like Oricorio, Primeape, and +1 Jynx. It does outspeed +1 Lilligant, but it can only do 60% at most to it with Boomburst after one Quiver Dance or try to fish for a Chatter confuse. The tier is also ridden with priority that can take Chatot out pretty easily after some chip. Being locked into Boomburst is also suboptimal. Things that can take advantage of Chatot being choice locked like Oricorio, Carracosta, and Ferroseed are all quite prevalent atm. On top of all this, Balance builds generally carry pretty hard counters to it like Clefairy, Type: Null, and Regirock. With all this in mind, Chatot is a pretty terrible revenge killer that doesn't have a great matchup vs offense and struggles to do anything vs Balance. As a breaker with Specs or Nasty, it can sometimes get the job done, but it struggles a lot with Regirock which finds itself on a lot of these builds. Its mostly just hard to justify using over breakers like Oricorio or Drampa that can provide more utility and are less abusable.

Arbok C+ to C Agree
Intially while testing this mon i was against it dropping as Arbok does some cool things vs offensive teams. It can setup on some common mons on offense like Physical Skuntank, Qwilfish not running max speed, and Hitmonchan. After 1 Coil it can clean weakened offense nicely with its solid bulk and access to Sucker Punch. Poisonium is also neat as after 1 Coil it can potentiall OHKO defensive Mesprit after rocks and always after it takes a Primeape Uturn. However i found that Arbok just has too many hard checks and counters that make it very hard to support and build around. Even with Piloswine leaving the tier, Ferroseed, Carracosta, Gastrodon, EQ Regirock, Weezing, Sableye, Musharna, Golurk, and Sub Oricorio all have very good matchups vs Arbok and are hard to all account for with the 5 other slots on your team. While some of these mons aren't quite as common atm like Musharna or Weezing, the fact that there are just so many things Arbok needs weakened or eliminated before it can do anything means it can struggle a lot in most matchups.

Lilligant A to A+ Undecided, Leaning Towards Disagree
Lilligant is undoubtedly a big threat in the metagame and demands to be accounted for in teambuilding. However recent metagame trends lend to Lilligant struggling sometimes. Scarf Primeape is everywhere which can always revenge Lilligant as long as you prevent it from reaching +2. There are a lot of hard checks to it that are found on a lot of teams. Ferroseed, AV Magmortar, and Oricorio make Lilligant struggle depending on what coverage it happens to be running(HP Fire or Z Hyper Beam). Things like Oricorio also force Lilligant to predict between clicking an attack, sleep powder, or Quivering. Predicting wrong can put the Lilli user in a terrible situation(ie Quivering or the Oricorio switch in). On the other side of the same coin, Lilligant being prediction reliant means that sometimes your opponent also has to predict well or risk getting swept. Overall, when compared to the rest of A+ I think it impacts teambuilding at the same level of the rest A+ but isn't quite as effective as what it does compared to the rest if that makes sense.

Now for one nom of my own:

Pawniard from C to B-

This is an incredibly slept on mon atm. It hard checks so many mons in the meta and takes advantage of the prominence of basic Qwilfish Spikes offensive teams. First, let me list some of the mons that Pawniard hard checks. It basically walls Skuntank AND deters it from clicking defog since Fire Blast Skuntank isn't too common anymore. Mesprit gives Pawniard free SDs. Jynx is walled unless it is running Focus Blast which is unset. It does have to play mind games with Oricorio thanks to sub and Z move but thats another top mon it hard checks. It hard checks Lilligant without HP Fire. It takes advantage of Intimidate from Qwilfish. There are a lot of cool things Pawniard does. While Pawniard does have a lot of really good checks like Gastrodon, Gurdurr, Wisp Weezing, Hitmonchan, etc, none of these things like losing their item. Primeape is very common and can revenge it, but it hates switching in to a Knock which negates its effectiveness and Iron Head which easily 2hkos. Pawniard fits very well on spikes offense which is arguably the best archetype thanks to Defiant deterring defog from the number 1 defogger Skuntank.

TLDR this is cool mon use it
 
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Hi I'm pretty much here to nom a bunch of stuff down so here goes!

Cradily: B > B-/C+
I really, really do not like this Pokémon. I understand that it has a somewhat decent niche in being a Stealth Rock setter not weak to Water-type attacks and has an immunity to Lilligant's Sleep Powder, while also having reliable recovery; however my issue stems from the fact it's so incredibly passive while also having a serious case of 4MSS. The Toxic + Giga Drain set has some serious issues versus Pokémon such as Weezing, Oricorio-G, Skuntank, Aggron and the list goes on, with it also being one of the few Stealth Rockers to let both Qwilfish and Ferroseed setup with ease. Being a Rock-type that doesn't resist Flying-types is also quite a big negative for it meaning that, unlike other users such as Regirock and Carracosta, it isn't able to reliable beat Archeops and Oricorio-G. Its typing is just really awkward and a lot of what it can do other Stealth Rockers like Miltank and Clefairy are able to do to a similar standard. It's also a Rock-type that doesn't resist Fire-types, so things like Choice Specs Pyroar are able to break it after a tiny amount of chip. I don't think it's the worst mon out there, but being B is massively overstating what it can do.

Granbull: B- > Way Lower (like C/C-)
Real question, has anyone used this recently to consistent success? It is just bad at what it attempts to do, and I'd argue it's currently the worst ranked Fairy-type in the tier with the likes of even Togetic outclassing it. My main gripe with Granbull is how it struggles to check physical attackers overall and how easily it is to wear down throughout the match, with it attempting to role compress being a Cleric and a physical wall but falling short by quite a large margin. Other Clerics like Miltank and Audino are far more splashable and a lot harder to wear down thanks to access to reliable recovery and, while they don't check what Granbull specifically does, they have far better role compression in comparison. Granbull is just bad.

Komala: C+ > C-
Komala struggles immensely at the moment, being a Normal-type with only decent Attack and Special Defence and an average movepool. Its main "niche" of being a Rapid Spinner that can beat Spin Blockers is overall untrue and things like Gourgeist-XL and Sableye are able to beat it with Foul Play, along with more offensive blockers like Golurk just being able to muscle through it. QC has had so much trouble deciding a set because it was a case of finding the "least shit" one. Even the Assault Vest set, which is currently its better one, is just so average at what it does in comparison to Assault Vest Hitmonchan, only really having U-Turn over it. Just another really lacklustre mon.

Huntail: C > C-/D
Average Shell Smash user which faces serious competition from Carracosta and even Gorebyss. Main issue with it is Carracosta almost 100% outclasses it to the point that its niche of a better Speed tier and Water Veil is overshadowed by Carracosta's access to a STAB priority move, great offensive dual-typing in Rock and Water and an arguably better ability for setting up and taking hits in Solid Rock. I understand the few niches that Huntail have but when Carracosta is so prevalent and good at what it does, I see no need to ever run Huntail.

Vullaby: C > D/Unranked
This. Mon. Is. Bad. I can't comprehend why this ever even got placed at C, I really cannot. Average Defensive typing with an ability that is almost useless on it makes me wonder why I'd ever use this over something such as Togetic on more Stall-oriented teams. It's extremely passive to the point that almost anything can get a free switch on it along with having one of the worst cases of 4mss I've seen on a Pokémon. The things it's supposed to check all have coverage to beat it and it's fodder to others. Really don't understand why this is actually ranked, but if anyone wants to tell me go ahead.
 

Lilligant A to A+: Disagree

Lilligant is one of the best sweepers in the tier. However, it doesn't deserve to be in A+. It can't provide that much for immediate damage unless you run the Z-Move set, and it's coverage isn't top-tier either. It also struggles with a decent amount of Pokemon. Primeape is a great example, which is a Pokemon that I think may even go up even further in the viability rankings just purely on how good the scarf set is. If it doesn't have a boost, Lilligant loses to Archeops, Mesprits with Ice Beam (so most offensive sets), Pyroar, Scarf Abomasnow, Oricorio Sensu, etc. However, the biggest reason I think Lilligant should stay in A is because of Jynx. Jynx gives it a lot of competition as a sweeper, having amazing Ice/Psychic coverage compared to Lilligant's limited coverage, higher speed and special attack stats, and being able to set up easier and quicker thanks to Z-Lovely Kiss. However, pretty much any form of priority kills it thanks to having the worst physical bulk in the tier. Lilligant can heal itself while it sweeps so it cares less about priority.

Edit: Rwby made a post while I was typing out mine so I'd like to quickly agree with a few of his drops

Granbull drop - Agree

I only used this thing to counter Gallade when it was still legal, after that I've never thought about him or even seen him or any of my games. The biggest reason I support Granbull dropping to the C ranks is how amazing Qwilfish is. It plays the intimidate user role so much better; it's able to do most things that Granbull can along with having Pain Split and Spikes. While Granbull has Heal Bell and takes dark types better than Qwilfish, it faces a lot of competition for the Heal Bell spot from Miltank (who I usually use) and Lanturn. I completely support dropping Granbull to C+ at least).

Huntail drop - Agree

Why is this even ranked? What can it do that makes it stand out from Carracosta, Gorebyss, or even Turtonator? Sure it has a better speed tier, but everything else about it is so garbage it's hard to take advantage of the speed tier. I think this thing deserves to go down to D because I guess Water Veil helps it a little, but if it were up to me I'd unrank him entirely.
 
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