Resource USUM PU Viability Rankings


Lilligant A to A+: Disagree

Lilligant is one of the best sweepers in the tier. However, it doesn't deserve to be in A+. It can't provide that much for immediate damage unless you run the Z-Move set, and it's coverage isn't top-tier either. It also struggles with a decent amount of Pokemon. Primeape is a great example, which is a Pokemon that I think may even go up even further in the viability rankings just purely on how good the scarf set is. If it doesn't have a boost, Lilligant loses to Archeops, Mesprits with Ice Beam (so most offensive sets), Pyroar, Scarf Abomasnow, Oricorio Sensu, etc. However, the biggest reason I think Lilligant should stay in A is because of Jynx. Jynx gives it a lot of competition as a sweeper, having amazing Ice/Psychic coverage compared to Lilligant's limited coverage, higher speed and special attack stats, and being able to set up easier and quicker thanks to Z-Lovely Kiss. However, pretty much any form of priority kills it thanks to having the worst physical bulk in the tier. Lilligant can heal itself while it sweeps so it cares less about priority.
because i was the one nomming lilligant i felt like i needed to respond to posts that disagree with it, i mean i felt like my post was pretty clear and informative but it seems like people didnt get it. ''it can't provide that much for immediate damage unless you run the Z-Move set'' this doesnt make sense, you run z move set 99% of the time and the scarf set runs leaf storm, so it does have immediate power, also nearly every setup sweepers isnt as strong without a boost. The list of mons you listed as answer is GREATLY flawed: you cant list stuff such as Archeops, Scarf Aboma and Mesprit as answers when Lilligant doesn't have a boost, in which circumstance are they gonna work as answers? am i gonna switch lilli into one of them? because if they're the ones switching in they get mauled or still risk switching into a boost(which is what should happen as lilligant, i mean the moment you get it in something slower, so most of the meta, you just sleep and setup) also if what you're saying is true that means they're also answers to jynx, which you say that its better than lilligant. Oricorio-Sensu is one of the VERY few safe answers that lilli has, and if lilli is played well you can rarely get around it. Also Primeape is NOT a good answer, read my post.
and jynx is not as reliable, quiver dance is much better than lk + nasty plot along with sleep powder, lilli is bulkier and you undervalue healing since it makes lilli beat every rkiller including primeape(outside of pyroar and sensu of course), also yea being less weak to prios. also the fact that your opponent has to guess your set means lilligant can usually always get a kill or two before your opponent figures out what set you are.

about other noms, hugely agree with pawn up: typing is amazing, makes it check a bunch of strong offensive threats such as jynx and other psychic types. defiant is amazing for qwil and with tspikes bc of also qwil and riskier defogs. can be a very strong secondary wincon with swordsdance because knock + iron head coverage is actually quite good(+2 suckerpunch nails some faster answers) and hits most of the meta.
also im fine with komala dropping, but absolutely not c-. i've actually found komala to be not as useless as some people think. i've been running an aoa assault vest variant on some teams and it hasnt done bad. its main niche is being both an entry hazard remover AND a slow u-turn. that means you can easily abuse your opponent switching into its ghost type to avoid the spin or normal resist or whatever and gaing momentum by giving a free switch to a strong attacker such as pyroar or magmortar or setup sweeper. also normal coverage can be very dangerous outside of ghost types and like regirock, and with assault vest it has enough staying power usually to fire off 1 of 2 returns before it dies.
 
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so here's a unsuspected nomination for D, and the nomination is Fearow.


Recently ive tried out a lot of unranked mons to see if they had any real use in the tier( Swalot, Luxray, Hypno ) and after searching and battling for a good 3 days i think we found our boy. Something that already puts fearow way ahead of things such as Delcatty and Lickitung in the tier is its lack of competition as a physical flying type. Archeops, Toucannon and Ninjask are about the only other viable physical flying types in the tier and Ninjask has fallen recently because of its heavy rock weakness and popularity of Weezing, Coasta, ect. What does Fearow do well? First off Fearow has a great base 100 speed in a somewhat slow tier out speeding common threats such as Jynx, Zangoose and Liligant. Additionally Fearow gets access to Drill run and sniper which means steel and rock cant just run it over or easily swap into it (common steel types/rock types in the tier like Aggron and Probopass are 4x weak to drill run which helps Fearow alot). Equally as important, Fearow gets mirror move which can be very effective when paired with a z crystal. Z mirror move raises Fearows attack stage by 2 as well as attacking the foe with whatever type it had used the previous turn(to get a better understanding, check out the replays below). Before Fearow attacks with a powerful z move, the attack boost activates, which means in just one turn Fearow will gain a boost and attack with a z move at the same time. Fearow does struggle with priority and its defenses, as anything faster than Fearow pretty much one shots it, but with the boost and great speed, Fearow can clean up late game or eliminate key mons early game. 70% of the reason i nominated Fearow is because of the lack of flying answers in the tier.

replays



The Fearow set i run

Long beak style (Fearow) (M) @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Mirror Move
- Protect/Double Edge
- Drill Peck
- Drill Run

Protect is for scouting you're opponents moves, before using mirror move.
 
I was sooooo ready to talk shit if ferrow wasn't jolly.

Granbull is trash for being reusable.

Kolam is decent I always ran u-turn, spin, wish, protect mixed bulk or full defense based on team and yeah most the time I didn't really regret running it over hitmonchan(bulk-up) other than taking less from rocks and putting me in bad ranges, but it didn't care for t-spikes and with mespit running around not running double psychic weak teams to cover t-spikes and stealth rocks is really really nice. So please don't say C-

Also both spinners destroy teams with ghosts if You run choice band rattaicate pursuit(100% hit after hussle) adamant or absol
 

Fearow UR -> C-/D: Disagreed
I'm sorry but I cannot get behind this nomination. Drill Run seems like a great niche for Fearow in theory, but it doesn't hit its intended purposes hard whatsoever. Fearow is just painfully weak, and none of its moves exceed 80 BP bar Return and Double-Edge, which aren't used much as it is. At least Archeops has Earthquake/Earth Power backed with better offensive stats and moves which makes it overall better (and why it's the premier flying type) and Murkrow pulls off the Mirror Move niche better with priority in Mirror Move itself and Sucker Punch. If anything, I'd rather run a crit set with Focus Energy since Sniper crits do more damage than +2 from Mirror Move, can be used multiple times throughout the game, and gives me an extra moveslot for something like U-Turn. Amberlamps made a really good point, it just lacks good STAB options to warrant using it over other birds.


Huntail C- -> Lower: Agreed
Already explained by rwby, it just lacks a niche.


Torterra: B -> B-
I've used this mon on two separate teams in the past, a defensive set and an offensive set, and they've both been underwhelming compared to what else the tier offers. As an offensive pokemon it's constantly competing with Golurk and Abomasnow which can both utelize its STAB and coverage better (The former can Rock Polish while the latter can Swords Dance and use STAB priority). Defensively, it almost certainly can't hold a candle to Gourgeist, which can burn things while simultaneously having a better defensive typing (4x Ice weakness really sucks in certain situations like vs. Ice Punch Chan) as well as Tangela, who's arguably a better physical tank and has Regenerator. Regirock and Carracosta also offer better utility as defensive rockers. However, I will argue that its RP/Double Dance sets merit usage, because its dual typing hits a good portion of the tier at least neutrally like Abomasnow, albeit having a harder time due to requiring setup time.


Audino: B- -> B
PU severely lacks good wish passers because most of them can't pass sufficient wishes for bulkier teammates, and with the popularity of Hazard Offense many teams fall victim to getting worn down easily. Audino forms a solid core with Weezing and Sableye, and Regenerator lets it somewhat take advantage of checks that force it out. It can be a late-game wincon by just clicking WishTect with Toxic Spikes up, and it's absolutely mandatory on stall archetypes for patching up Weezing, Granbull, among others. It's also a bit of a glue mon on defensive teams, as by simply having it on your team, it suddenly gives things that lack reliable recovery like Mesprit, Lanturn, Regirock, Muk and the aforementioned Weezing and Granbull a source of recovery.
 
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Noms I disagree with:


Cradily: B > B-/C+

I'll have to be honest Cradily does have a lot of goods than bads. We will talk about Strom Drain first. Storm Drain can be very useful at a lot of times since there are a lot of good water types in PU like Carracosta, Qwilfish, Lanturn, Gastrodon etc. And it doesn't need Giga Drain and Toxic it can also Have Earthquake and STAB Stone Edge which is unlikely gonna be on a Cradily but there can be such thing as a Physical attacking Cradily I mean it has Swords Dance a Great variety of Physical Attacking moves that can make him a Bulky Physical Attacker. And the only thing he has to look out for is Weezing which wouldn't be a big problem since Cradily has Nice Defense stats.


Granbull B- > C/C-
Now don't shimmy your jimmies I'll explain. First of all Granbull's speed is not the best but with Quick feet is can be a potential sweeper. Think about it Granbull has a very good Attack stat and pretty decent HP That can take hit from poison/steel type moves. Speaking of those types Granbull has a lot of type coverage moves like Earthquake for the Steel and Poison. And it also get's Heal Bell. It's unlikely you're gonna see a Granbull with Heal Bell but with 1 immunity and only 2 weaknesses and with decent HP and Defense it can pretty much heal bell the team for days if they have states conditions of course.


Pawniard C > B-
Hitmonchan is a thing in PU


Komala C+ > C-

Komala is only used for Rapid Spin, Protect, Wish, and Return. But when I was looking at Komala's stats I realized that Komala can be more of a Physical Attacker then a Special Defender. I mean it gets Swords Dance and a lot of nice Physical attacking moves like Wood Hammer, Brick Break, Earthquake, Acrobatics etc. And a lot of players are missing out on a Physical Attacking Komala.

Noms I agree with:


Huntail C > C-/D

Shell Smash Carracosta and Shell Smash Gorebyss is a thing in PU


Vullaby C- > D/Unranked

Evilote Vullaby isn't the best in PU tbh. It does get a lot of STAB Moves and all but it's just no good. it can easily get OHKO By Ice Moves like Ice Hammer. Also, Evilote is the only set up for Vullaby so far or at least I haven't faced a person with a Life Orb vullaby it's always the Evilote.


Torterra: B > B-
Abomasnow Blizzard is a thing in PU



Audino: B- > B

Audino is one of the best normal types when it comes to Defensive walls IMO. It can really help out the team with Wish and can have the Regenerator ability that can come in handy when Audino is on low HP. and it also has Magic Coat so you can basically start out with Audino and then use magic coat to bounce bake their possible. and with some great attacking moves, it can be a possibale sweeper

one of my noms:


Bouffalant: D > C-/C

Bouffalant doesn't get enough attention and I don't understand why. Bouffalant has Great attack and decent HP So that it can survive Fighting moves. Now i know Bouffalant get's overshadowed by Ursaring But Bouffalant has Reckless and Head Charge Which can be very good. And you can have so many different sets with Bouffalant. You can give it a Life Orb, you make it a Swords Dancer, You can make it have a Choice Band, And you can even put an assalut vest on it because Bouffalant has Very good defense and Special defense. The only thing lacking is it Speed but you can put it in a Trick Room stall team and it can do some heavy damage.
 

Anty

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Pawniard C > B-
Hitmonchan is a thing in PU
Normally I don't like to cherrypick much like short noms, but stuff like this really needs to stop. If you aren't writing at least a couple of sentences to explain your opinions then you shouldnt be posting at all, but it mostly just sidetracks the thread with people explaining how awful the argument is. For example, that 'logic' can be applied to pretty much any mon in the tier (eg drop hitmonchan because qwilphish/mesprit exists). Its also worth noting that hitmonchan can only switch into pawniard once since Iron Head has the chance to 2HKO, and even iron head and a boosted sucker can kill with a spike up (assuming standard av set). In future, I will be editting out these types of noms as not only are they not funny, but they are harmful to the thread. If you think hitmonchan usage is enough for pawn not to rise, then make an actual argument based on it.

Bouffalant: D > C-/C

Bouffalant doesn't get enough attention and I don't understand why. Bouffalant has Great attack and decent HP So that it can survive Fighting moves. Now i know Bouffalant get's overshadowed by Ursaring But Bouffalant has Reckless and Head Charge Which can be very good. And you can have so many different sets with Bouffalant. You can give it a Life Orb, you make it a Swords Dancer, You can make it have a Choice Band, And you can even put an assalut vest on it because Bouffalant has Very good defense and Special defense. The only thing lacking is it Speed but you can put it in a Trick Room stall team and it can do some heavy damage.
I also disagree with this nom. The main reason Bouffalant is ranked so low is due to its fierce competition with other normal type breaks, which though you eluded to it, you never actually stated why Bouffalant should be used over them. Choice Band is fairly outclassed by Stoutland, which can actually break through Ghost-types, which makes up for the lack of power especcially now that palossand is becoming more common (and thats not mentioning its higher speed). Life Orb SD seems hopelessly outclassed by either Ursaring or Zangoose, and trick room sets are also outdone by ursa. AV sets also seem mediocre as its fairly passive, and not hugely bulky to take on stuff across the entire game, not to mention Komala which though has less bulk, but has immunity to status and the ability to spin and pivot out with u-turn. The reasons why Bouffalant was ranked in the first place was due to Sap Sipper, but that was when Lilligant was much more relevant and more used sets outside from z-hyper beam more, along with the SubSD set, which is the only reason why I could see it being ranked. However, at that time Weezing was much more prevalent, and being able to set up on it was huge, whereas now oricorio-g usage has never been higher (completely walls the set unless you run edge over eq - which has even more problems), and other ghost types like Misdreavus are becoming relevant (not to mention archeops, gurdurr, and carracosta are still top tier mons). I really dont see much of a place for Bouffalant in this metagame.
 
Agree with Cradily drop, this mon has never impressed me in use and its presence in B was always kind of baffling.

Don't agree with Audino rise, its bulk hasn't scaled well with the power creep this gen. If you look through our special attackers in the A ranks and above it just doesn't beat many of them. Jynx 2hkos with a +2 psyshock and isn't even 1hko'd by knock in return, Mag kills with Fire Blast -> Focus Blast on the switch, Oricorio just sets up on it, Lilligant just sets up on it, Mush just sets up, Specs Pyroar is an almost guaranteed 2hko with rocks up, Raichu 1hkos it at +2, Drampa blows through it, Eggy blows through it and even Abomasnow has a chance to 2hko after rocks and Hail. That leaves uh, Floatzel, Swanna and specs Mesprit without psyshock that it sort of reliably walls. It's simply not the cover-all special wall it once was, and I find it really difficult to fit on teams because it's a special wall that really doesn't do much special walling at all. It's a nice wish passer and regen is nice for scouting some of the aforementioned choice locked mons, but it's not worth B to me.


I'd also like to nom Volbeat for B- again (well I still think B because its very comparable to persian imo but I'll settle for B-) cuz I know Galbia has used it and so it's definitely not just me being delusional any more. With rocky helmet and phys def investment it's a cool fighting check with reliable recovery and a tonne of utility including prankster encore, a slow u-turn and any of prankster toxic/tailwind/thunder wave. It's not scared of physical skunk unlike many fight checks and its decent special bulk means it's not even scared of things like non-specs Mesprit. And it also does weather stuff which is cool!

Illumise is also pretty neat because wish but I'll wait till people are converted to Volbeat first
 
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Fearow UR -> C-/D: Disagreed
I'm sorry but I cannot get behind this nomination. Drill Run seems like a great niche for Fearow in theory, but it doesn't hit its intended purposes hard whatsoever. Fearow is just painfully weak, and none of its moves exceed 80 BP bar Return and Double-Edge, which aren't used much as it is. At least Archeops has Earthquake/Earth Power backed with better offensive stats and moves which makes it overall better (and why it's the premier flying type) and Murkrow pulls off the Mirror Move niche better with priority in Mirror Move itself and Sucker Punch. If anything, I'd rather run a crit set with Focus Energy since Sniper crits do more damage than +2 from Mirror Move, can be used multiple times throughout the game, and gives me an extra moveslot for something like U-Turn. Amberlamps made a really good point, it just lacks good STAB options to warrant using it over other birds.

im only going to reply to one post about Fearow. in response, Fearow does in fact hit its opponents hard with drill run that resist it.

+2 252 Atk Fearow Drill Run vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Probopass: 396-468 (130.2 - 153.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fearow Drill Run vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Aggron: 324-384 (115.3 - 136.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Fearow Drill Run vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Regirock: 146-174 (40.2 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (great for late game when Regirock is low on hp)

in response to Murkrow it has worse attack and speed than Fearow and i recall you claiming earlier in the post that Fearow is painfully weak. Along with the fact that Murkrow's sucker punch can be played around, as well as its slow speed and frail defenses making it if anything way worse than Fearow. In addition Fearow doesn't rely on its z move to clean up, its more then capable of finishing 25% - 35% pokemon on the field(without type advantage). And the point of my post wasn't about Archeops, we all know its the best physical flying in the tier. To respond to low base power moves life orb Liligant with hidden power fire and giga drain has a lower base power, but can still be effective with boost or z move in case of hyper beam.
 
Agree with Cradily drop, this mon has never impressed me in use and its presence in B was always kind of baffling.

Don't agree with Audino rise, its bulk hasn't scaled well with the power creep this gen. If you look through our special attackers in the A ranks and above it just doesn't beat many of them. Jynx 2hkos with a +2 psyshock and isn't even 1hko'd by knock in return, Mag kills with Fire Blast -> Focus Blast on the switch, Oricorio just sets up on it, Lilligant just sets up on it, Mush just sets up, Specs Pyroar is an almost guaranteed 2hko with rocks up, Raichu 1hkos it at +2, Drampa blows through it, Eggy blows through it and even Abomasnow has a chance to 2hko after rocks and Hail. That leaves uh, Floatzel, Swanna and specs Mesprit without psyshock that it sort of reliably walls. It's simply not the cover-all special wall it once was, and I find it really difficult to fit on teams because it's a special wall that really doesn't do much special walling at all. It's a nice wish passer and regen is nice for scouting some of the aforementioned choice locked mons, but it's not worth B to me.


I'd also like to nom Volbeat for B- again (well I still think B because its very comparable to persian imo but I'll settle for B-) cuz I know Galbia has used it and so it's definitely not just me being delusional any more. With rocky helmet and phys def investment it's a cool fighting check with reliable recovery and a tonne of utility including prankster encore, a slow u-turn and any of prankster toxic/tailwind/thunder wave. It's not scared of physical skunk unlike many fight checks and its decent special bulk means it's not even scared of things like non-specs Mesprit. And it also does weather stuff which is cool!

Illumise is also pretty neat because wish but I'll wait till people are converted to Volbeat first
I've been using Audino more frequently than usual on balance archetypes, and yeah I've found it quite meh. Hates Aboma's hail chip as well as Focus Blast coverage from things like Magmortar and Drampa. It's just too exploitable despite being the best wish passer in the tier (esp versus setup as I've personally found, since it doesn't have room to fit Encore) and not what it was in ORAS. Probably should've used it more like I did with Torterra before nominating it. :[

I'd also like to back your Volbeat nom, annoying af mon defensively for blanket checking PU's fighting types, great for weather and getting frail sweepers in safely.
 
Good J sorry but Fearow is a trashmon. Your argument that it has a niche over Murkrow holds no water. For one, Murkrow is, in fact, stronger than Fearow due to the fact that it has access to Brave Bird, while Fearow has to rely on the weak Drill Peck for its Flying STAB. Consider the following:

+2 252 Atk Fearow Drill Peck vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 254-302 (67.9 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 Atk Murkrow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 368-434 (98.3 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Fearow doesn't even come close to OHKOing a Gourgeist with a supereffective STAB move at +2. Murkrow may still be slightly lacking in power but it's a hell of a lot stronger than Fearow. Fearow may have access to Drill Run, but the only important target it hits is Aggron - Probopass is fairly uncommon and it can't even get the 2HKO on no Defense investment Regirock at +2 (god forbid you encounter an Impish Regirock). Furthermore, you're massively downplaying the importance of Murkrow's access to priority. Sucker Punch can, to some extent, be played around, but Sucker Punch mindgames generally are in the favor of the Sucker Punch user and the mere fact that stuff like Raichu-A, Pyroar (high chance of getting OHKO'd after one round of SR damage), Scarf Mesprit, Scarf Oricorio, etc etc cannot reliably revenge kill Murkrow makes it so much more valuable as a sweeper than Fearow, which can be revenge killed by anything faster than it. Prankster also helps in giving Murkrow more opportunities to set up on things faster than it

I watched your replays and they don't really showcase Fearow very well at all. The only reason Fearow was even remotely useful in the first game was because you got a couple of crits - without hax, the Qwilfish would have been a major obstacle for Fearow since even at +1 Fearow fails to come even close to a KO on 252/0 Qwilfish, and even then, it eventually got burned and effectively neutered, there was no such thing as a successful sweep. Your opponent was making really weird plays in the second replay and if he hadn't gone for the Foul Play on your obvious Protect but for Will-o-Wisp - he should have done this if he understood that you were using a Z-Mirror Move set - you wouldn't have managed to even break it before Fearow died.

As a breaker, Fearow is a weak failure, and as a late-game sweeper, Murkrow outclasses Fearow entirely. There is no reason to run Fearow and even though you may have had some marginal success with it, that is no reason to consider it viable since there's always something better you could be using instead of Fearow. Sorry, but this nomination is going nowhere, please drop it.

Bouffalant also isn't good as Anty already explained. People, keep in mind, a Pokemon can be decent/work for you and still be considered unviable. Viability rankings indicate more than how good a Pokemon is: they also indicate how good a Pokemon is relative to other Pokemon. The reason something like Bouffalant is so low on the VR is not because it's a bad mon an sich - it has good bulk, a good Attack stat etc - but because there are simply plenty of offensive Normal-types that almost entirely outclass it. Yes, you can have success with a Bouffalant, but how often is it explicitly more useful than a Stoutland or an Ursaring or a Kangaskhan?
 

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This is the last update pre-USUM, and I will be locking the thread until the games have been out for a few days. The meta's probably going to change, people probably have an idea of what's going to get better, but making fairly untested nominations based off of theorymon and the state of the meta pre-USUM would only decrease the level of discourse. Anyway, here goes:

Pawniard C to C+
Cradily B to B-
Granbull B- to C+
Huntail C to C-
Vullaby C to D
Torterra B to B-

Mostly low rank stuff, but council was solidly against raising Lilligant for the time being. It's a threatening mon and very important to check in teambuilding, but the tier has so many viable mons that give Lilligant a hard time (Magmortar, Abomasnow, etc.) that running multiple softchecks to reliably handle it overall is pretty easy. Jynx is a good comparison (cuz it does the same thing mostly and is A+) that's just a bit more of a pain to reliably handle using mostly viable mons. Also, with the strong surge of Sensu usage to match the Lilligants that are running Z-Hyper Beam instead of some hidden power and the solidification of Primeape being our premier scarfer, Lilligant hasn't /exactly/ enjoyed the recent meta trends.

As always you can check out the votes here, if you have any other VR related questions then you can ask on Discord/in the PU room/in the SQSA thread, and I'll see you all here in a week or so.
 
Just something quick I want to get out of the way.


Lumineon: C- -> UR

Now that Silvally gets access to Defog, Silvally-W completely outshines Lumineon as a support mon (Same support movepool plus better defenses, speed, and can run a variety of offensive moves if need be) and there's a new wave of Defoggers that can provide better utility plus pivot out, such as Volbeat and Rotom. Therefore, Lumineon shouldn't have a place in the VR.
 
Palossand from B+ to A-


Palossand gets rocks now which is huge for this mon in the meta, no longer having to run another ground/rock/steel type on your team which can rack up weaknesses to a common type such as water or ground is very helpful. Palossand is also one of if not the best Archeops counters on the tier, an Archeops without taunt does absolutely nothing to max defense & max hp Palossand.
252 Atk Archeops Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 129-153 (34.4 - 40.9%) -- 52.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Archeops Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Palossand: 78-92 (20.8 - 24.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
after swap easy snore up.



Volbeat stays at C+


Defog Volbeat in theory sounded amazing to me, but after using it i found out its not that good and it sure doesnt help the fact that new defoggers are emerging such as the Rotoms and Oricorios. Volbeat simply loses to alot of top tier threats and is also weak to rocks its self. Volbeat without a doubt has lackluster defenses and cannot take many hits at all, however roost and defog prankster is great, but i didnt find myself being able to defog more than once in a game, upon that Volbeat provides nothing on the offensive side during the battle, unlike the other great defoggers we have(Oricorios, Skunktank, Swanna). with all that being said as much as i wouldnt like to say it, for the current moment Volbeat stays where it is. And no u turn does very minimal damage to pretty much anything it doesnt hit super effectively in the tier(good for momentum though).
 
Okay, so there is definitely a fair amount of Pokemon that ought to be taken into considering in light of the changes for USUM. I don't think much has objectively dropped in viability (barring some things that are just now outclassed like Lumineon mentioned above), but there are certain things that can be discussed for moving up at least a sub-rank or more:

Altaria
Defog is one of Altaria's most important new additions to the metagame, as it allows the Pokemon to finally carve itself a niche among other defensive Pokemon. Despite Altaria's weakness to Stealth Rock, Altaria's immunity to Spikes, great bulk, and access to Natural Cure helps alleviate pressure within its role of a support Pokemon, and Roost helps give it leeway to stick around and stay healthy throughout the battle. Natural Cure, in particular, is super neat for Altaria as that allows it to function as a status absorber as well as basically 1v1 a lot of defensive Pokemon like Gastrodon and such that also likes to carry Toxic. All of these traits allow it to match up well against a lot of hazard users such as all of Defensive Mesprit, Ferroseed (thanks to Flamethrower), Weezing, Miltank, Pallossand, and various others. It's also one of the most durable choices in a tier, with the ability to fit comfortably well in a lot of balance and stall builds and do its job just fine. In terms of possible sets, I've used both physically and specially defensive variants and they both have plenty of their perks; the former functioning as a very solid switch-in to cb/scarf primeape and passimian and still being capable of solidly checking stuff like Eelektross and Magmortar (two Pokemon that are good at breaking balance) by virtue of its typing and naturally high special defensive stat alone and stalling out Regirock with Toxic+Roost a lot more reliably (and thus being better at keeping hazards away vs it), while the latter just being a super solid special sponge against a lot of other stuff like Pyroar more reliably. I wouldn't quote me on any other possible ways of using this but like an offensive Defog set with Draco / Defog / Fire Blast / Roost doesn't sound that bad either, since it's basically a pivot to a lot of status and Magmortar an Eelektross without being too passive and still supporting the team. All in all, Altaria has a new tool and does a fantastic job of utilizing it, and definitely warrants a rise in at least B rank.


/

Rotom-Frost and Fan are both particularly effective new users of Defog due to their unique pivoting abilities for a defogger and their respective offensive and defensive presences. Frost, in particular, is a Pokemon I feel has some pretty untapped potential, and I've retained that stance ever since the rising of Piloswine. With Defog, Rotom-Frost can pressure Qwilfish, Palossand, and Mudsdale, and Subzero Slammer with Electric coverage can dent a lot of teams lacking Lanturn in general. Defog + Blizzard is admittedly enticing as well! B- rank seems like a fine jump for Frostom.

As for Rotom-Fan, it's more effective defensively due to its Flying typing that lets it check stuff like Gurdurr and switch into Fighting and Grass types well, as well as soft check Pinsir with its bulk with Physically Defensive sets. It can use Will-o-Wisp nicely to cripple Golurk, Regirock, Golem, and Mudsdale, and although it lacks Roost for longevity, it can reasonably fit options like Pain Split or even Sitrus/Iapapa Berry to somewhat mitigate that. I think a rise to C-rank is reasonable for it.


This Pokemon has plenty of room for exploration in general, but I feel that Silvally-Water and Silvally-Steel are Pokemon that I feel have the most notable improvement from Defog, as they respectfully are solid at taking on the majority of hazard users with the coverage they have and have varying degrees of defensive and offensive utility on top of Parting Shot and Tailwind. Their main flaw is lack of recovery (though Steelvally somewhat mitigates this through its resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to Toxic Spikes/Toxic) which is limiting for their jobs, but they do it well enough to where Silvally-Water can move from UR to about C and Steevally could stand to rise to at least C as well.


Servine actually competes with Lurantis well as a defogger that has options like Taunt and Glare to separate itself, combined with slightly better Defense with Eviolite to more actively switch into stuff like Regirock. It is also notably faster than Lurantis, all while sharing the trait of pressuring a lot of Stealth Rockers and beats Ferroseed pretty well. Mirror Coat is a niche but usable option that can be used to lure Fire-types as it can take a hit and KO back, and can also let it come in on Weezing and deter it from attacking. UR to C is fine in my opinion.

I want to cover some others in a less Defog-centric post another time, but I think Pokemon like Palossand and Togedemaru (both of which I feel can rise a subrank due to improved utility options that lets them function more effectively and especially in Toge's case, with Scarf being recognized as a set with a good niche that outspeeds base 95 Scarf mons, grabbing momentum, and being good at threatening common offensive Pokemon like Swanna and Archeops) are good discussion points to be had for the time being.

Lastly, I leave my man GenZeon in charge of bringing up Bellossom to be ranked again. :pimp::pimp::pimp:
 

Teddeh

They say I'm up and coming like I'm fucking in an elevator.
is a Tiering Contributor
I know I'm gonna get hate by some of these options. So here we go :D

Sawsbuck C- -> C+ Yeah ever since Sawsbuck got Headbutt in USUM It has been a major threat. Serene Grace, Swords Dance With STAB Headbutt is the Most Common and deadly set to use for Sawsbuck. Now I know that it can't hit ghost types with STAB Headbutt but with STAB Horn Leech to Regain Health and because of STAB can take care of those Ghost Types and mostly Golurk and Palossand. And I forgot to mention that it can outspeed most of the PU Mons with a Jolly nature And max Speed EVs.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Skuntank: 341-403 (98.2 - 116.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Jump Kick vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Magmortar: 328-386 (106.8 - 125.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 270-320 (92.4 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sawsbuck Horn Leech vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 231-273 (76.2 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Politoed Unranked -> D I'm I the only one that thinks that Politoed is underrated? It get's the Drizzle ability and it's the only PU mon that gets Drizzle. And sure it gets over-classed by other Water-Type Mons but Politoed and someone with the Swift Swim ability can be a very useful core to use during battles. And it also has Decent SpA with STAB Hydro Pump and I just think it needs more attention.

252+ SpA Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Archeops in Rain: 656-774 (225.4 - 265.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Carracosta in Rain: 364-429 (125.9 - 148.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Magmortar in Rain: 320-380 (104.2 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Politoed Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Oricorio-Sensu: 224-264 (76.9 - 90.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Well... That's about it for now from me at least. I might do some more this later.
Drizzle is banned in PU, politoed is unranked for a reason since it's outclassed majorly as a water type in PU.

Your calcs for sawsbuck - why would magmortar be used as a sawsbuck check? you calc'd a life orb for sab even though it has prankster wisp and hard walls. Why is skuntank a calc for it either? again - not a switch in. hitting palossand is a viable niche, but not enough to warrant its rise of 2 sub-ranks and the rest of your post doesn't give enough weight to warrant a rise.
 
The slight shake up to the PU Meta has made the tier pretty enjoyable for me over the past week. While I didn't sign up for ssnl, I have been helping some friends build and practice so I've had plenty of time to play and build. Here are two cool pokemon that I think should see the spotlight more often.

Kingler: D -> B-

Kingler is a very underrated and underused mon in the current metagame. The addition of liquidation to kinglers movepool not only increased immediate firepower to kingler's main attacking slot, but it also improved Kingler's reliability and consistency since it no longer has to risk a 10% chance to miss it's strongest attack.

It's best set at the moment is easily Life orb double dance. The 2nd attacking move can be tweaked to fit each team, but kingler is mostly clicking liquidation. I find myself in most games having to go for Agility rather than Swords Dance.

Here's some sets I've had some fun with.

12345 (Kingler) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Agility


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-663152311

At team preview I notice that except for lanturn, my opponent can be completely swept if kingler gets up an agility. Offensive Mesprit must take rocks twice or be below around 85% to die to unboosted liquidation. I have actually faced this guy on the ladder more than once so I knew from experience that he was psyshock mesprit rather than psychic. You will see in this game how that makes a difference.
I see that the easiest ways for kingler to set up are either on lycanrock or a choice locked dugtrio. Since I am scarf+memento skuntank I have plenty of opportunities to weaken his physical attackers to allow kingler to boost up.

Turn 4: Although it isn't completely obvious here, I feel that I benifited from by opponent misplaying this turn. Dugtrio-A 100% of the time allows me to freely switch into my mesprit to get up rocks against him. I believe he should have gone to magmortar on this turn, especially after seeing that skuntank would not do much damage seeing as I am scarf.
Turn 6: I clicked psychic here as I believed it puts me in a good position for the 3 likely plays he would make:
Scenario 1: He stays in and kills me, allowing me to either boost up with kingler, or fire off a rock slide to weaken the likely incoming lanturn.
Scenario 2: He pivots into his special tank, lanturn to take on my special attacker. As I mentioned earlier, weaking lanturn into range to die to kingler's rock slide is one of my win conditions this match.
Scenario 3: He switches to his own mesprit, this allows me to negate that turn's lefties and then u-turn out to keep him in range of Kingler's liquidation.
Turn 8: Since I know he is choice banded not choice scarf, I go into my faster skuntank and fire off a memento guaranteeing that I do not die to a combination of banded eq + accelrock. I also would have likely waited a few more turns to do this if I did not know he was psyshock mesprit.
Turn 10: I go for swords dance as it grantees the kill on lanturn (otherwise it was a roll at best if he was running minimal defense EV's). Once I am at +2 all I have to do is hit a rock slide on lanturn (didn't want to risk water absord) and I can sweep from there.


Passimian B -> B+

Passimian is my new favorite fighting type in the tier. While access to new moves like Gunk Shot and Seed Bomb are a big plus for Passimian, I mostly enjoy using this mon with volt turn to bring it in safely to dish out huge damage with CC. Due to access to U-Turn, I have seen mostly scarf sets, but I have really enjoyed using a banded set. I have not tested this yet, but I think that a Bulk Up set could also have some merit especially with Seed bomb for gastro + gunk shot for CC resists.

Here's my current favorite set:
Passimian @ Choice Band
Ability: Receiver
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Close Combat


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-663141348
I think this replay is a pretty good example of how passimian can break through teams if played correctly. Going into the game I see that my opponent has 2 hard counters to banded passimian in defensive mesprit and oricorio.
Turn 1: I got lucky with the 1st turn matchup and was able to pursuit mesprit with skuntank taking it in to CC range from passimian.
Turn 5: Passimian forces him to either sac Tortetta, or pivot into something and then be revenge killed depending on what I choose to U-Turn into based on his switch.
Turn 6: Hurricane miss was unforutnate but would have allowed me to trap Oricorio next turn either way.
Turn 7: Here I am able to trap his fighting type immunity thus allowing Passimian to safely spam banded CC from here on.
Turn 18: Here I double into passimian. Barring a scald burn, this essensially forces him to allow gastro to be weakened enough for kingler to win the game from here, or forces him to sack another one of his pokemon. It appears that he assumes I am scarf and tries to scout using a recover. This takes him by surprise and puts his gastro into CC range.
Turn 21: Because I have already knocked off Gurdurr's eviolite, sacking Raichu-A here is a 100% win play. Even if he predicts me to do so and goes for a bulk up, banded passimian still KO's Gurdurr from 49%. I was also still out of range from a crit +1 Mach punch. From here I am free to spam CC to victory.
 
Hi I don't normally make nominations but here I am.

Servine UR -> C: Agree
I hadn't used Servine too much in SM (rip SpeedPass) but the addition of Defog in its moveset makes it much more viable. While it's bulk is fairly comparable to Lurantis, Servine has much better speed which imo may even be a reason to put Lurantis lower and Servine higher, but I'm fine with this small nom for now.


Altaria C+ -> B: Agree
Really have wanted to use Altaria but I could never really fit it onto teams as normally offensive sets aren't too great and defensive sets didn't really have that much over other Flying types. Now with Defog, and maintaining the same amazing resistances as a Dragon/Flying type I can actually see this having merit on a balance or even bulky offense build.


Kingler D -> Higher: Agree
Kingler definitely got a lot better with Liquidation, now having a good Sheer Force STAB move. People have been hyping Agility+3 attacks, but honestly, I think double dance with STAB and Knock/Superpower is still the best set. Not sure if it should go all the way to B though, as that's a really big jump to make in one move change.

Now my own nom


Golem-Alola D -> C/C-
Now that his thing gets Fire Punch, it can actually trap and deal with both Ferroseed and Bronzor, which makes it much more usable in my eyes. It allows Golem to be a good partner to things like standard Kangaskhan and Skuntank and other stuff that doesn't like Iron Barbs damage from Ferro or can't touch it normally.
 

allstarapology

formerly drumstick
While there was already a nomination for this Pokemon, I feel as if another nomination expanding on what the first was saying is in order to more efficiently drive the point home.


Palossand: B+ to A-

Palossand was already pretty decent before USUM came out due to its impressive bulk and solid defensive typing that allowed it to check prominent physical attackers such as Aggron, Archeops, Gurdurr, Kangaskhan and Primeape. Palossand also has access to reliable recovery in Shore Up, which furthers its longevity, whereas other physical walls like defensive Carracosta and Regirock are worn down easier. With the addition of Stealth Rock to its movepool, Palossand has gotten even better, and it’s an effecitve Stealth Rock user because it's able to hold its own against opposing hazard setters like Regirock, Qwilfish and Weezing. Furthermore, Palossand can serve as an annoyance to some of the best hazard removers in Hitmonchan and Skuntank since it can spinblock and beat Skuntank with Colbur Berry.

Overall, I feel that Stealth Rock was a really good addition to Palossand, and I think it deserves a slightly higher ranking because of its improved role compression.
 
I want to nominate a mon that is near and dear to my heart, and actually is really fun with new moves in USUM.

Togedemaru B to B+

Togedemaru was an ok mon before USUM as it could be a terrain setter for electric terrain teams and a wish passer, but now has access to its other stab with Iron Head. With this dual stab, Togedemaru becomes a solid choice scarf user, with access to u-turn, and can have something like super fang and toxic for filler. Togedemaru here becomes a solid cleaner late game that hits decently hard and can provide nice momentum. With this scarf set becoming viable, Togedemaru can now provide multiple roles to a team making it pretty versatile.
 

Rwby

@g change my smogon name to lalala memes :33
is a Pre-Contributor

B > B+: Agree
I'm sure that the majority of our active player-base already knows my stance on Togedemaru so I won't delve too much into this, but I certainly agree that it is in need of moving up, at least, one sub-rank. I used Togedemaru frequently during both the Alpha and Beta stages of SM PU, mainly focusing on the offensive set instead of the specially defensive version, and it was always capable of providing the support required for whatever team I decided to use it on. While it was less popular during the early stages of PU I believe, in addition to its other two viable sets, that the Choice Scarf set was also able to carve a niche for this electric rodent, but was often overlooked as it had no access to a reliable Steel-type STAB move (outside of the counterproductive Gyro Ball). In lieu of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon giving it two usable Steel-type STABs, in Iron Head and Iron Tail, along with getting a useful support move in Super Fang I'm certain that this will allow it enough to be deemed as more viable in comparison to its other B ranked Pokémon. The Choice Scarf set certainly improved the most with this new addition as it's now able to hit both Rock- and Ground-type Pokémon for a reasonable amount of damage with its newfound Steel-type STAB, while also currently being one of the fastest Choice Scarf users in the meta. The ability to outspeed Choice Scarf Primeape and both +1 Jynx and Lilligant, offering a way to disrupt Volt Switch users, and having an unblockable pivoting move in U-Turn gives it an incredibly solid niche. Its solid Steel- and Electric-typing also gives it the opportunity to pivot into weaker Psychic- and Grass-type Pokémon, with the offensive Leftovers set being able to cripple them with either Toxic or Encore and the Choice Scarf set being able to Toxic them or pivot on them.
 
For my 100th post on Smogon, I decided to drop some of my thoughts on a couple of mons and the current USUM metagame and will additionally comment on the nominations from other users.

Primeape A+ to S
And with that in mind, I will start with probably my most controversial nomination. Primeape was always an immensely valuable mon in SM, creating a lot of momentum with U-Turn and constantly forcing 50/50s. It previously was the perfect glue for most offensive teams and a pretty good answer to the very common offensive Spike teams, because of Qwilfish's Intimidate and the resulting attack boost, due to Defiant. However, most people do not know that in USUM Ape got an actually pretty big hidden buff - Defog and Parting Shot. With the new tutor move Defog, a lot of Pokemon gained the ability to remove hazards and that's where Primeape comes into play. It can switch into a predicted Defog and snatch a +2 attack boost. The most notable mons that got Defog are the various Silvally forms. Fairy and Ghost, the only two commonly used ones in Sun and Moon, were always decent checks to the angry monkey, but now also Silvally Water and Steel rose in popularity, which lose the 1v1. With Silvallys being that common now, they all have to think twice before clicking Parting Shot, because that can transform Primeape into an unbeatable force, real quick.

All of the latest small meta shifts make me believe that Primeape, without a doubt, deserves the rise to the prestigious S-rank considering it's obvious assets and it's next to no downsides.


Jynx A+ to S
This is a nomination which was already discussed in various Discord/Showdown chats and it is long overdue. Jynx is in my honest opinion the single most scariest setup sweeper in the tier. Whenever I see this on the opposing team I have to carefully play around it, because the Z-Lovely Kiss set can literally 1v1 entire teams with a certain amount of luck (sleep turns). At +2 it's basically unstoppable and also the current meta, with slowish scarfers, is heavily in her favor. With base 95 speed, it ties with scarfed Primeape, one, if not, the best revenge killer in the PU tier, and in general there are not a lot of faster Choice Scarfers being used in the current state of the metagame. The 2 most notable ones are Pyroar, which runs LO or Specs most of the times anyways and A-Raichu, which also prefers Nasty Plot variants rather than Scarf.

I should also note the fairly less used Scarf Jynx, which to be honest still throws a lot of people of guard, killing their Archeops and Scarfed Sensus with ease.

Adding to it's unpredictability there is a third set that quickly rose in usage - the Substitute set. This set, hyped up primarily by Dibs The Dreamer , gained a lot of popularity, especially in the last couple of days. Considering that Jynx forces a lot of switches, getting up a Substitute is actually not that hard at all and with Lovely Kiss it can easily elude common opposing threats like Skuntank. The Sub set is also quite unpredictable cause you can either run dual attack or even mono Ice Beam with Nasty Plot to play around Sucker Punches and to punish stallish builds.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-663317067 This replay by Taskr just shows how easy it is to play around it's checks with the correct predictions.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-662417397 Another replay, now by Dibs The Dreamer, that shows how stupid this mon is. Jynx action starts at Turn 23.


Lanturn A to A-
Lanturn has fallen out of favor lately. Fast electric types, besides Alolan Raichu, are pretty much non existent nowadays and Lanturn furthermore got a pretty big competitor in AV Eelektross recently, that wants to dethrone Lanturn as the go-to special tank.
I just feel like the offensive AV set gets worn down pretty quickly without passive recovery and hazards, especially Spikes, which isn't a problem for the levitating Eelektross. I'm already leaning more towards Eel right now when building a bulky offense team, cause it just has it's evident merits. The specially defensive set with Leftovers is probably the more common now, but it's easy to take advantage of by setup sweepers like Lilligant and in general most frail-offensive mons can easily abuse the lacking offensive presence for a direct switchin. Don't get me wrong it's still a great mon and a fantastic cleric, but I feel like the rest of the A-rank just is a little bit better at the moment and also the current meta isn't in Lanturn's benefit.


Drampa A- to A
On the other hand, this monster fully deserves the mid A rank. It's probably the only mon without a defensive check in the tier and that can singlehandily demolish slower/stall builds. With Specs and the correct prediction, you can pretty much always obtain a kill. Common Spdef walls like Audino, Type: Null and Ferroseed get blown back by Focus Blast/ and the already former mentioned AV mons like Lanturn, Eelektross but also Magmortar and Hitmonchan get nearly ohkoed by a Draco Meteor. Lately I have really enjoyed using Dragonium-Z lately, because you still have an extremely powerful nuke, but without the SpAtk drop. You can also switch between moves and bluff the Choice Specs. Also it's a great counterlead against the ever so popular Eelektross lead cause it resists all of it's 3 coverage moves and Knock Off won't harm you at all. Also a Devastating Drake does 77% minimum, so your other special attackers can spam their attacks more freely.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-662185635 The first 3 turns of this battle against LordST just show how big of a threat Drampa is when it can actually switch between it's moves.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-664546593 this was my recent seasonal match against Earlio. Drampa, again a fantastic lead against Eelektross, came in clutch beating his entire defensive backbone. Works particularly well combined with Healing Wish.

I have also seen people using Fightinium-Z sets to avoid the miss, but personally I would rather go for Specs to be honest. Drampa is also one of those lucky mons that got access to Defog in USUM, but I have no opinion on it yet and I probably think it won't be run commonly cause it already kinda suffers from the 4MSS. But yeah we have to bump this up.


Eelektross B+ to A-
This mon is hot right now. Due to the lack of meta defining electric types, most teams don't run a Volt-Switch absorber anymore. Further, ground types are limited to basically Palossand, Golurk, Gastrodon and the pretty uncommon A-Dugtrio, Golem and , which let Eel Volt Switch basically for free against most teams. With the coverage moves consisting of Giga Drain and Flamethrower paired with a SpAtk stat of 105, you can hit nearly the entire tier for super effective damage with the correct prediction. On the other hand mons like Choice Specs Drampa or Type: Null, which take next to nothing from it's special moves, get very hindered in their usability because of Knock Off. Also the recent meta change with Silvally-Water being quite common nowadays, helps it quite a lot. It can either hit it incredibly hard or get the instantly back after Silvally's Parting Shot with a slow Volt-Switch. But of course Eelektross has, like most mons in this tier, it's disadvantages like the really bad speed tier and the mediocre physical defense, which hinders it from moving up more than one sub rank.

All in all it's a good specially defensive mon with surprisingly decent damage output with a slow Volt-Switch to get save switchins for your frailer mons.


Kabutops B+ to A-
When most people hear the name Kabutops, they automatically think of rain. Of course it's a stable on rain teams and all, but it's also exceptionally good on regular offensive teams. In my opinion Tops got a variety of good movesets like Scarf, Band, SD Rockium-Z and Rain Dance Rockium-Z, just to mention a few. All of those sets have a lot of positive traits.

Scarf speed ties with Mesprit and Passimian and is a great revenge killer in general. Band is a great set on a hazard team and very good against offensive teams. Banded Aqua Jet does a minimum of 55% to Primeape, which is absolutely ridiculous. The Rockium sets are the most common ones allowing for sweeps with Rain Dance/Swords Dance. Both are incredibly potent setup moves which make Kabutops an immense threat with the paired nuke in Continental Crush. I also tried Fightinium-Z and Buginium-Z with decent success for either Ferroseed or Mesprit/Grass mons. Endless opportunities and I feel like it's just better than most of the B+ ranked mons.


Combusken B- to B
One of the most underrated mons in the moment. When most people build teams, they only prepare for physical fighting types. Prime examples are Weezing, Palossand or Sableye, which are easy kills for Busken. Furthermore common SpDef mons like Audino and Type: Null get blown back by special fighting moves. But also AV mons like Hitmonchan, Eelektross and Magmortar have the chance to get ko'd by the combination of All-Out Pummeling + Focus Blast.

I also saw people using Fire Blast+Focus Blast paired with a Hidden Power like Grass/Electric most of the times. But I personally believe that Substitute is the better filler move currently. With Substitute, you can either set it up on a predicted switch and get a free hit, or you can set it up on slower mons for the speed boost. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-656723334 This replay vs Shadestep demonstrates the Substitute set perfectly (ignore my bad team lol). I setup subs on Qwilfish cause I know that I need +3 speed for the scarfed Primeape in order to sweep his team. Fightinium-Z also allows for a one-time nuke and you don't have to worry about missing. The Life Orb set is in my opinion still an excellent choice for Combusken, but I always find myself using Z variants just because of the accuracy.


Bellossom Unranked to C/C+
My new favorite grass Quiver Dance in the tier, and for people that know me, that means a lot. Back in Sun and Moon most people that tried this mon, instantly noticed it's major flaws. By far it's biggest downfall is it's lacking speed though. It fails to outspeed a lot of mons, even after one Quiver Dance and gets revenged easily. Archeops for example can easily come in, outpace and kill it. With the release of USUM it got a really interesting new move in Strength Sap. Soon my bud jklioe came up with this set and I gave it a shot and it was straight up amazing. Quickly I realized though that mons like Drampa completely shut down this moveset so I changed it from Safe Guard to Moonblast for not only Drampa but also for others like Skuntank, Hitmonchan, Oricorios,... With Z-Strenght Sap you can now basically set up on every physical mon, bar Primeape, and abuse there lowered attack stat for Quiver Dances. I've prepared just a couple of replays that show it's power.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-662235842 At turn 16 Bellossom gets in and starts to setup on Skuntank and proceeds to sweep.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-662280446 vs. Many. Bellossom gets in at turn 9 and opens up the door for my Hitmonchan to kill the rest of his team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-662316990 Starts at turn 29. Opponent only has physical mons left and Bellossom easily takes advantage of that.

The next 2 replays are from the semis/finals from a recent room tour.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-664235859 Comes in at turn 12. Sets up easily on a physical mon and sweeps the rest of his team.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-664238260 This has to be my favorite replay (vs 5gen). I was already 2-6 down and it was looking like a loss for sure, but Bellossom comes in turn 28 and starts to setup on a defensive, choice-locked Mesprit and continues to sweep the entirety of his team.

I'm honestly totally impressed by this Pokemon so far, but I still see some weaknesses, that prevent the rise to an even higher rank (from now on). First of all with zero SpAtk investment it's not really strong and can't break through bulkier teams. It's dead weight against stall or balance teams and fire types, especially AV Magmortar hard wall it. Although against offensive teams it can show it's true power and sweep unprepared opponents with no trouble.

Now I'm commenting on some previous nominations

Lumineon C- to UR: Agree. Sorry galbia, but there is literally no reason to use this over Silvally-Water. Unrank

Palossand B+ to A-: Agree. Haven't used it that much, but it is a very viable rocker, that beats most other rockers 1v1 and has additionally a recovery move in Shore Up. This mon has a lot of hidden potential in my opinion and definitely deserves the rise of one sub rank.

Altaria C+ to B: Agree. Very good new defogger, that hasn't been explored fully yet. Maybe can rise even further, when we know what it's capable of.

Silvally Water/Steel UR to C: Agree. I haven't used Steel at all to be honest, but C seems like a good fit for it at the moment. Water on the other hand just feels better and also should get more recognition. B- would be a decent place for it, atleast for the start.

Servine UR to C: Agree. Good mon. With access to defog now, it's basically a faster, but also weaker SM Lurantis, which is worth considering for a competitive team.

Kingler D to Higher (maybe B): Agree. Kingler is stupid strong. With it's new move Liquidation it now finally can abuse Sheer Force and shred through opposing teams. As Sam I Yam already stated, I also feel like Agility is the better setup move for most teams rather than SD, due to it's already sky-high attack stat. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-664463415 This is a quick little replay from Bundeskanzler which shows it's strength and late game sweeping potential.

Passimian B to B+: Agree. Great breaker right now and with Knock Off it can now finally hit mons like Oricorio-G or Golurk for actual damage. Still think it's outshined by Primeape as a scarfer, but it now definitely has carved itself a bigger niche than before.

Togedemaru B to B+: Agree. One of my favorite new scarfers. With access to Iron Head it now has a second stab move to hit ground and rock types for decent damage. Also a great pivot that can outspeed Primeape and +1 Jynx.

Thanks for reading and peace
 
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TONE

Get your bitch a cannon. Bitches love cannons.
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Now I'm not one for making viability nominations, but imma just give my thoughts on some mons that I feel can drop a bit in the rankings.



Throh from B+ to B

Now I'm not one to bash on mons as a whole, but I feel that Throh can drop not for the fact that other Fighting-types are more favored in the current meta, mainly Primeape and Hitmonchan which performs different roles as opposed to Throh, but mainly since it has become more difficult for Throh's main set to effectively shine mainly due to prominence of Ghosts specifically Palossand and no Knock Off makes Throh helpess and no Bulk Up makes it extremely weak and for the most part being overlooked as a bulky Fighting-type by Gurdurr. Mostly I think the initial rise was due to an overhype in a manner of speaking from back when Hariyama was banned and people wanted to use Throh as a Guts replacement which it can'tdo well at all due to lack of power and and spammable Fighting STAB bar Storm Throw which is weak despite the guaranteed crit chance.



Poliwrath from B- to C+

While on the topic of Fighting-types, Poliwrath has struggled to find a real niche in this meta with other bulkier Waters such as Lanturn and Gastrodon being preferred and Water Absorb not meaning that much in terms of a niche plus the added pressure from Faster threats such as Jynx, Lilligant, and Oricorio-Ghost puts a damper on how effective Poliwrath can be and other Pokemon such as Ferroseed are generally used if you wanna check stuff like Kabutops and Carracosta.
 
first post in the thread and id like to respond to some nominations earlier.
Poliwrath B- to C+: Disagree. Poliwrath separates itself from Lanturn and Gastrodon because of its ability to provide as a more than exceptional counter to multiple physical pokemon in the tier. 95 base defense is pretty good and its typing allows it to take advantage of Floatzel, Carracoasta and the newly rising Kingler. Water absorb works for Poliwrath in addition Poliwrath can be very effective in the rain with belly drum, bulk up and/or hypnosis. Poliwrath i do think has a few bright spots that Ferroseed cant cover, such as the ability to destroy opponets with focus punch , cripple with toxic and stall with sub. Ferroseed isnt always a good counter, Kingler and Kabutops both run superpower and/or knock off which can heavily cripple Ferroseed, to add on Poliwrath on the other hand pressures Kabutops and can tank any hit from Kingler. As for Carracoasta, the damage for both are about the same. I do agree however with Poliwrath having tons of prominent weaknesses in the tier as of now, but i still dont think that warrants a drop, especially since it can be used as a reliable counter to the very problematic mons above. In conclusion Poliwrath provides assistance as a bulky physical wall and water counter in this case, something Lanturn and Gastro cant do as well.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 132+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 105-125 (35.9 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Carracosta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 138-164 (35.9 - 42.7%) -- 93.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Primeape A+ to S: Disagree, i do understand where you're coming from, but a pokemon becoming S rank is determined by more than just power. Primeape has tons of counters in the tier, and along with that wayy too predictable. Primeape's main set and mostly only set is choice scarf, is for whatever reason that becomes a problem as i stated before the meta has tons of counters that easily take care of Primeape(Palossand,Weezing). Primeape is not in anyway a defining mon in the tier, in my opinion people often overlook it, which leads to its success.


Lanturn A to A-: Agree, Lanturn is obviously a really good mon, but it lacks power and can be played around often pretty easily. Not to mention Lanturn gets absolutely destroyed by most physical attackers and earthquake. Furthermore Eelektross has better coverage, avoids hazards, cripples evolite pokemon with knock off and doesn't lose to ground moves.
 

Teddeh

They say I'm up and coming like I'm fucking in an elevator.
is a Tiering Contributor
Throh B+ -> A- : I'm going to go ahead and disagree massively with tone here as I've been using different variants of throh at the moment that allow me to believe that it deserves a rise to the A ranks instead of a drop. Passive throh sets are good, but what makes throh extremely deadly is the ability to absorb status with its bulk and break cores very easily, most notably being able to 1v1 weezing, qwilfish and break other cores with powerful knock offs and Superpowers* as a main choice of STAB move. I've been using it for the past few weeks and its ability to lead / come in at a large amount of health and force a switch due to its ability of being able to chew a hit and ko in return is remarkably consistent. Not to mention that if you bait in a wisp / toxic / t-wave on throh, you double your attack with CB, which is excellently demonstrated in a couple of replays that I have here:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-661706877
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pu-662368566
Ultimately I think with throh's unpredictability in its sets, whether its bulk up, rest-talk knock, band or some other variant, i think it adds a lot to a team and should definitely not be any lower than B+, and in my opinion should be in the A ranks.

I've got a few other opinions but only time for this one, will post again later in the week :)