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UU Analyses Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Oglemi, Jun 6, 2011.

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  1. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    This thread is for any analyses that have already passed QC or are on site.

    I've noticed in the other tiers that people have been commenting on threads that have already reached the DONE stage asking the OP to add a set or questioning the ones that are already there. This thread is to remedy this problem by allowing people to voice their concerns here, and then the QC team can look into the suggestion.

    So, in other words, Do NOT post in a thread that is already past the QC stage asking for a set to be added or for a different EV spread to be the main one. Voice that concern here. Failure to do so may result in an infraction and a deletion of the post made. However, you are free to make suggestions about the slashing and the ordering of the sets in thread, and of course anything concerning the write-up including adding a counter, teammates, or including something in OO.

    It should also be noted that making piddly "This analysis is awesome" posts should be avoided as they only necro old threads and clutter the sub-forum (however if the write-up is truly exceptional I obviously don't care if you congratulate and praise the writer, just avoid necroing long-dead threads).

    Also, this thread will be for discussing analyses of Pokemon once they are on site.

    So, for the time being this thread is pointless. But it will soon become more useful as analyses start getting completed.
  2. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    Escavalier needs Gligar mentioned in Checks and Counters. It has a great Defense stat (508 max), can take any of its moves, and Taunt to stop SD
  3. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    OK that seems like something that can be mentioned in the thread itself as well. I wanted this thread to really only prevent people from trying to get sets added to an analysis that is in the DONE stage. This is minor enough to where you can just add the suggestion in the thread itself. I made this more clear in the OP.

    No harm done though.
  4. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    This is reference to the Victini analysis, which has already passed QC.

    The current mixed set is inefficient. Here's mine:

    Victini @ Life Orb
    Rash
    160 Atk/252 SpA/96 Spe
    - V-Create
    - Psychic/Fire Blast
    - Grass Knot/Thunderbolt
    - Work Up

    This takes a stall-breaking approach to the mixed set, which is probably its best way to go. Max special attack helps ohko Slowbro and a 40% chance of ohko against Milotic with Grass Knot after 1 Work Up. It also powers up Psychic/Fire Blast, which will be your main sweeping move.
    The given Atk guarantees that V-Create gets an ohko on 0/252+ Chansey; it also has a 60% chance of ohko against 252/252+ Chansey. V-Create also ohkos pretty much every psychic resist in the tier besides Slowbro (taken care of by your coverage option) and Houndoom (who walls you without Tbolt).
    The speed lets you outrun neutral max speed base 80s like Mamoswine, and also lets you outrun 8 speed base 50s after a speed drop from V-Create. Higher speed is an option, but dropping either Atk or SpA means you lose to either Chansey or bulky waters, and beating both is the point of a mixed set...
    Grass Knot versus Thunderbolt is basically whether you're more worried about quaggy/gastrodon or empoleon/azumarill. Psychic versus Fire Blast is a choice between whether you want a fire attack that doesn't drop your stats or additional coverage. If using Fire Blast you're going to want to go with Grass Knot, and vice versa.
    This set is massively threatening to stall teams, but it is mediocre at best against offense, so make sure you mention that.
  5. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    Yeah I agree with FlareBlitz that that set should be the Mixed one.

    Any other QC members want to weigh in?
  6. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    not sure if this goes here, but here it goes

    for the shaymin analysis, specifically the subseed set, why do those EV's apply. at 281 you outspeed adamant base 90s and lower, which i dont believe are incredibly common. i'm not very good with ev spreads, so i cant be useful in this, but wouldnt there be a better ev spread thats useable?
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    OK we're going to mention FlareBlitz's EV spread and moveset in the AC of the one in the OP. Basically, while that set rapes stall, it kind of sucks vs. offense and BP teams, which are all the rage these days.

    And we'll make the EV spread of the Shaymin analysis a simple 252 HP / 252 Spe spread.

    Thanks for the input guys.
  8. breh

    breh ⁰ ゝ⁰
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    A better idea is to run enough speed to outrun heracross/Nidoking; the rest is pretty irrelevant. The reason I say these specific pokes is that you can severly damage them with your attacks, no matter how much you invest.

    Arcanine is a bad idea to stay in on without moves to hit it SE (it will flare blitz you then switch; it's also been rather rare from what I've seen), Doom is the same, Roserade is bad to stay in on (you hit it for jack shit with hidden power), Moltres is bad to stay in on, Porygon-Z is rare (as far as I have seen), you're not outspeeding Venomoth, Vire is for n00bs or speed bp, Xatu blocks leech seed (and rarely runs max speed but w/e), Sigilyph has magic guard, Kroodile is scarfed anyway... uhhh... did I miss anything else?

    It's useful against the odd max speed uxie and Rotom (most I've seen have been max HP/max Def Bold though) I guess...
  9. Honko

    Honko
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    In Mismagius's analysis, I think Choice deserves a full set, not just a brief mention in OO. The only real argument I've seen against it is that Rotom is "better" at it, but there's a big difference between outspeeding base 100s and not. Personally I'd rather hit Victini/Staraptor/Mew/etc *before* taking a V-create or Brave Bird to the face, not after. Mismagius also does a better job of luring in special walls to cripple with Trick than Rotom does.

    I also think Substitute deserves a mention somewhere in Victini's analysis. Personally I use a set like the one FlareBlitz posted but with Substitute in place of Work Up. It protects you from Houndoom and anything else that tries to take advantage of V-create's stat drops and just generally eases prediction. Obviously it needs spin support but that's something you should usually have if you're using Victini anyway. I don't care where it's mentioned, but it should at least show up in OO.
  10. Paradoxus

    Paradoxus

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    I agree with this. The Rotom formes don't do it better because they lost their Ghost-typing, they don't have a STAB that doesn't require weather support or lowers their SAtk stat. When you see a Ghost type that has 5 Base Speed points then the 2 biggest threats in the tier, I think that a Choice item would be a wise choice to get a big hit off. Let's face it, Chansey straight out walls Mismagius, but that works well since Rotom forms are less afraid of Chansey than Mismagius is, so it's a better lure for Chansey.

    I completely agree with this also, in my experience with Victini, it pretty much means that you have to switch after a V-Create, but with Substitute, you can stay in and get a 2HKO or KO another Pokemon. Plus, Victini has access to the almighty 101 subs so Night Shade/Seismic Toss doesn't break it, which means that dedicated walls that aren't OHKOd by it will just take more damage the next turn.
  11. Focus

    Focus Nerd is the word.
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    I might as well post this here, I guess. In the Walrein analysis, the reccommended EV spread was given as 220 HP / 252 Def / 36 SpD Bold because it allows Walrein to Sub-Protect-Sub-Protect without losing any HP. Why not put even more EVs into HP? Stallrein still works just as well with the spread of 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 SpD Bold, giving it 419 HP instead of 416. Walrein still has 104 HP subs, Lefties/Ice Body recovery is still 52 HP per turn, but now it is more physically bulky and less susceptible to passive damage.

    Edit: This also applies to the gen 4 OU Stallrein analysis on site. Even for the gen 4 UU Stallrein, it might not be such a bad idea to put 8 or so EVs from Defense into HP.
  12. Snunch

    Snunch
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    Max Speed Shaymin speed ties with a bunch of important pokes such as Zapdos and Flygon. In addition, outspeeding stuff like Arcanine is very useful. It commonly switches into attacks like Leech Seed and Seed Flare, and being able to get a few extra turns of leech seed damage can be crucial, and if seed flare reduces Arcanine's special defense, hitting it with another could be very important.

    Choice Mismagius is just too weak. An 80 BP attack from base 105 SpA just wont cut it. Plus, Mismagius' most attractive feature is the ability to destroy special walls with its standard sets, such as Sub+NP and Taunt+WoW. Both of these sets are much more effective at wallbreaking than trick will be on any pokemon. OO is the right place for choice Mismagius.

    Sub can get an AC mention on Victini.

    Focus is right, the Walrein EVs should be changed.
  13. fairytale

    fairytale

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    Kind of nitpicky but right now in the Weavile analysis an EV spread of 216 speed EVs is mentioned in AC to outspeed base 120s. I don't think that spread is worth it, as Dugtrio and Sceptile should be hit by ice shard and Alakazam is not that common at all. There aren't any other base 120s unless there's a 5th gen poke I'm forgetting about. In my opinion, if you're not going to run max speed, you should be running 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Speed to outspeed base 115s like Raikou.

    Personally I think the bulk is worth missing the speed tie on other Weavile, unless you're like really weak to opposing Weavile or something. I see that's already been brought up though and QC disagrees so I won't argue it.

    Edit: Although, outspeeding base 120s would be important if you aren't running shard on the SD set.
  14. breh

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    tbh the speed never hurts and weavile is too frail for bulk to do anything. most moves that hit weavile OHKO it anyway.

    it really should be running max jolly in any case since Adamant doesn't outspeed anything at all.
  15. fairytale

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    Not really. Weaviles special bulk isn't that bad at all. It survives Sheer Force Nidoking EP, for reference. The HP especially helps against annoying POS hail teams being able to take repeated Blizzards.

    The speed "never hurts," yeah, nor does it ever do anything except let you beat opposing Weavile half the time. Besides, I'm not saying the main EV spread should be changed, I don't expect others to agree with me on that. I just think 176 Spe should be mentioned in AC as it is generally superior to the current AC spread.

    But I agree about the nature. Jolly Weavile is the only Weavile.
  16. pie cream

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    for the slowbro analyses, I think there should be a AC mention of a special defensive spread because it let's you take two draco meter's from liforb kingdra after sealth rock while phsical defensive is OHKO by one draco meter after sealth rock and you still take phtsical hits well.
  17. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    If you want Special Defensive, may I ask why you don't use Slowking...?
  18. pie cream

    pie cream

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    Because you have more phsical defensive so if you have to take phsical attak you can.
  19. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    What spread are you considering for SlowBro? If you are using Calm and significant Sp.Def EVs, I'm pretty sure you will get better stats by doing minimal special investment on Slowking to achieve the same special bulk, than devoting the rest to defense.
  20. Oglemi

    Oglemi gimme
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    ^In short, Slowbro just does physical stuff better and Slowking does special stuff better. You really shouldn't be trying to use them as a mixed wall.

    If you can add some calcs with whatever spread you were thinking, then we might consider it.
  21. pie cream

    pie cream

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    252hp/ 4def/ 252sp.def spread gives slowbro 394hp/ 257def/ 284sp.def while with the same spread it gives slowking 394hp/ 197def/ 350sp.def so slowbro gets better mix stats to take hits from both sides but if you don't want to mention it thats fine with me.

    slowbro can surive overheat+cruch from lifeorb mix houndoom (252atk/ 4sp.atk/ 252spe) afther sealthrock while slowking can't
  22. Chou Toshio

    Chou Toshio @Fighting Necktie
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    I can't get on PO so I can't check, but the point was to see what Slowking's stats would be if you EV'd it to get 284 Special Defense than put the rest in Defense.

    In any case, you still haven't told us the nature, and like Oglemi pointed out, some calcs would be nice...
  23. pie cream

    pie cream

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    Oh sorry uhh the spread is 252hp/ 4def/ 252sp.def with a calm nature and the calc is above your post, sorry for the trouble. I just thought of it of my head that it would be good on paper.
  24. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    The thing with Slowbro/Slowking is once you hit more than 16 Def EVs & Bold on Slowbro or 16 SpD EVs & Calm on Slowking, the more biased one will come out. For example, 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Bold Slowbro is achievable on Slowking with the same stats but 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD Bold Slowbro is not achieveble on Slowking.

    Also 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Calm is achievable on Slowking with the exact same stats as Slowbro.
  25. pie cream

    pie cream

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    OK I understand
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