UU Analyses Discussion Thread

#1
I'll start by saying welcome to the thread, and I would just like to ask you to read the below message, and also use the thread appropriately.

Unfortunately the present UU process is far from smooth. Currently, UU is very volatile, and it has been for a while. Mostly, the problem is that UU suspect tests are consistently ongoing, and recent HGSS additions have just made it worse. Regrettably this means that an analysis is often outdated after..around a month or two. I will admit there have been flaws in the system - it has been extremely tough trying to get analyses on-site due to our tendency to a keep high quality. At this time, three of us are mostly running this project (Theorymon, Colonel_Marcus, and myself). It is very tough keeping up all the time even between the three of us - we are often chasing our tails.

This thread is a way to hopefully avoid that. This thread is to discuss what analyses need updating; previously, I could not keep up and it just became a mess. By taking your suggestions (feel free to object or concur with people's views!), we should be able to keep on top of things much easier. If you feel a Pokemon needs a revamp, post what it is and why you feel that way. We're all ears!

I would also like to say that this is not a thread where you discuss the metagame. Keep that to the UU subforum in Stark Mountain. This is just to help us guys keep up to date and on top of things - so just discuss what needs doing and why (eg. "it recently got this move, so it needs updating", or "this Pokemon got banned, which highly affected this Pokemon"). Any posts discussing things like "Gallade is broken", or "Low Kick Ambipom is really good!" will be infracted.
 
#3
I have a question ... why does Rotom have a Subsplit set but Mismagius not?
Probably because when they made the set for Rotom, everyone forgot that Missy could do it too. I hadn't noticed before that Mismagius lacks a SubSplit set, but it definitely needs to be up there.
 
#5
Mismagius does have better overall stats (including better SpA and Spe stats), so the only real advantages Rotom has are its higher physical defense (but lower HP ...) and its secondary STAB + assorted resistances. Shouldn't Subsplit Mismagius be at least an other options comment? It can run the exact same four moves as Rotom.

Also here's something else I noticed ... in Arcanine's Morning Glory set, it says something like the last move is mostly filler, and it's good to have someone who can get rid of auto-weather effects from Snover and Hippostas, therefore mentioning Ambipom as a teammate. Why not just slash in Sunny Day on that last, mostly filler slot?

Finally, there's Altaria's mono attacker set. It says with 3 layers of spikes, Altaria can 2HKO Registeel who switches in at +6. Is that even relevant? How is Registeel going to switch in on Altaria on an Outrage? If a (good) player has to Explode Registeel to remove Altaria, he'd either switch it in on seeing it's RestTalkDDOutrage [aka. no Earthquake], or sacrifice a Pokemon to get Registeel in safely, right?
 

shrang

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#6
Just one point, are we allowed to mention Heracross in the analyses?? It doesn't look like we're going to Suspect testing any time soon, so are we going to accept that Heracross is here to stay??
 

Oglemi

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#7
I think the consensus has been (and how I feel) is that we will not be mentioning Heracross in the current Updates we are doing.

For a few of reasons:

1. - While Heracross has had a big impact on the current metagame, analyses are still able to be written to reflect the metagame and give the reader enough basic information to survive in the metagame, even without any knowledge of Heracross. Which leads me to..

2. - Heracross, while definitely a superior threat to other Fighting-types, he is not so different from them (i.e. Hitmonlee, Blaziken, Primeape, etc.), in that, if the player is told to prepare for the other Fighting-types, they will be sufficiently prepared for Heracross as well.

3. - Heracross has yet, to my knowledge, rendered any set unusable by any of the common UU Pokemon. This is completely debatable, but I feel that nearly all of the sets that are onsite can be used successfully in the metagame today, even with Heracross's presence.

4. - There is no guarantee that Heracross will stay UU. If we were to write all the analyses mentioning Heracross, and then Heracross were to be banned, we would then have to go through all of the analyses again and change them. It would be Cresselia all over again.

5. - Finally, because we are so close to Gen 5, Gen 4 UU will presumably fall out of favor to Gen 5 UU when the time arrives. And, if Heracross is indeed still UU at that point or had been declared formally UU before then, we can then go through the analyses and mention Heracross if he severely affects how that Pokemon is played.
 
#8
Is this where I report mistakes in an analysis?

My Lopunny was uploaded, but the "support" sets description is under the baton passer (and the support set isnt on-site), and the baton passers description isnt even on-site. I just noticed this.
 

Oglemi

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#9
Flora got it Thund, you missed a [ on the Support set. Technically you're supposed to report to the Objective changes thread when it's something like a whole set missing or an analysis, but whatever. :)
 

Oglemi

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#10
ANNOUNCEMENT: Heracross was voted BL as per the UU Council in a vote 5-4 (as I kind of predicted, I had it pinned at 6-3). So, please DO NOT MENTION HERACROSS IN ALL ARGUMENTS/POSTS/ETC from here on out. Please and thank you.

I post this even though we haven't been mentioning Hera in any analysis, people have/had been letting Heracross sway their opinions on sets/etc., so that should no longer be an issue.
 
#11
In my opinion Mismagius needs an update pretty badly ... the analysis treats Sub CM as the main set when most players use Sub NP these days. The Calm Mind set misses on saying it sets up on Haze-less Milotic (which is its biggest asset imo) while part of the overview seems to have ended up on the Sub CM set. I don't know about Sub Destiny Bond as well, and I haven't seen a Perish Trap Mismagius since forever (although it's one of the very few viable Perish Trappers).

I think Mismagius needs an update more importantly than many of the niche NU Pokemon that's been getting C&C'ed ... I would offer to do it, but Mismagius being quite versatile I can't commit the time necessary :(
 
#13
Sorry about that, my bad for not seeing it.

Anyway why Fire Blast / Flamethrower on the physically defensive Weezing sets? It says in the analysis it hits Torterra, Registeel and Tangrowth. But Torterra is 100% walled by Weezing (both STABs resisted / immune, humongous Defense stat), Registeel isn't a Pokemon you'd try to beat with Weezing (how much does Fire Blast do anyway) and Tangrowth crumbles to Sludge Bomb, which also gets STAB as a general attack. Why not have Sludge Bomb replace Fire Blast? Off the top of my head, without testing, HP Ice might be able to take its place as well, gaining extra coverage on Rhyperior.

Thunderbolt is also a bit weird on Weezing at first glance when most Water Pokemon will be affected by WoW. They don't resist Sludge Bomb either, w.g. Weezing will always break 0/0 Feraligatr's substitutes with Sludge Bomb (does 32.2% - 37.9%). Still, Weezing's not a Pokemon I've used very often, so I don't know ...
 
#14
Well, for the Thunderbolt question, Milotic actually appreciates burn, as it activates Marvel Scale while providing an immunity to Toxic. Also, Registeel has Seismic Toss, which would allow it to slowly wear down and beat Weezings lacking Fire Blast...just giving some examples...

Anyway, I feel sorry for Flareon and its seemingly poor offensive movepool, as well of a lack of an offensive set on its analysis, so I'm testing out a Choice Scarf set...252 Atk/12 SpA/244 Spe EV spread and a Hasty Nature outspeeds base 120s with +Speed nature, and great offensive stats with a usable movepool allow it to inflict some damage, making it a good revenge killer...Fire Blast/Return/Superpower/HP Grass as its movepool, if anyone else wanted to test it out...
 

Bluewind

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#15
Nah, the real thing about Weezing is that, simply put, it needs an update. Biggest proof of that is that half the analysis follows the new format, and the other one, specifically the polemic Defensive set, doesn't. Another example is that RestTalk and Specially Defensive are the same in a nutshell, only with different EVs. So yeah, if anyone is willing to update it... (wouldn't be so hard, most of it can be just copy pasted; only the physical set and resttalk would need to be merged).
 
#16
I'm rather new to the smogon forums and I hope I'm not posting on the wrong place but...
Doesn't Huntail need an update? I'm sorry if there is, I haven't seen any mention of him.
Anyway, the reason I think Huntail needs an update is because of Shell Smash.
Shell Smash allows Huntail to be a mixed Shell Smash sweeper in the lower tiers since Cloyster has the upper tiers covered.
 
#17
I'm rather new to the smogon forums and I hope I'm not posting on the wrong place but...
Doesn't Huntail need an update? I'm sorry if there is, I haven't seen any mention of him.
Anyway, the reason I think Huntail needs an update is because of Shell Smash.
Shell Smash allows Huntail to be a mixed Shell Smash sweeper in the lower tiers since Cloyster has the upper tiers covered.

This is Gen 4, not 5.
 
#18
I've recently come up with a Dodrio set that doesn't seem too special in UU, but so far has worked to monstrous effect in OU and Ubers against most of my friends. Due to this set I might question Dodrio's placement in the UU tier.

Introducing, if I might be so bold as to give this a name, the Terror Bird set;
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Early Bird
Nature: Lonely/Hasty
EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, and forget the remainder (not wanted)
Moves: Drill Peck, Flail, Endeavor, Quick Attack
Due to a noteworthy 110 base attack and respectable 100 base speed it can make excellent use of STAB attacks in Drill Peck and Flail. Not only does this give it potential as a physical sweeper, but when it takes a hit (likely going down to 1HP, surviving with focus sash) it can probably finish off whatever hit it on the next turn, and take the opponents next pokemon down to 1HP with Endeavor, alternatively switching out to take down something bulky later. Quick attack allowing for a free KO on anything that's not ghost on a predicted switch.

Whether or not it's tier gets changed, I hope you'll consider this as an official set for Dodrio to run.

P.S. Ironic that a pokemon with three heads might excel with a lonely nature don't you think? :D
 

Oglemi

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#19
That's just a simple F.E.A.R. set, and while it may work occasionally, it won't against any real skilled players. There is far too much working against it, including entry hazards, priority, and weather (sandstorm and hail). So, it could work in all of NU, UU, OU, and Ubers, but the results would be too varied to warrant a set.

And by the by, tiers are based on usage, not power.
 
#20
Point taken on the teirs.

However I do think the extra raw power without boosts that Dodrio offers, and the touch more speed than, do grant it significantly more reliability as it doesn't need to depend upon Endeavor (or status orbing it's fragile self, or counting on unreliable sucker punches, or risk a swords dance) to deal out the pain. Once EHazards and weather are dealt with, and if priority isn't feared from the current opponent Dodrio also has better revenge killing capability (granted that's still fairly limiting, but it comes in handy now and then).

I should also mention Dodrio makes a great switch into Breloom (so long as spore give a sleep count of 1-5, not 6, so that it sleep just 1 turn due to Early Bird), which had previously been a real pain for me.

That's all I've really got to say about it. If you still don't like it fair enough.
 
#23
I think a sub roost set for swellow could work,I used it in five games and it did well. heres the set

subsititue / roost / brave bird / facade
EVs: standerd
item:flame orb

force a swich and sub or if your health is low roost and bravebird and facade are it's attacking moves.
 

Oglemi

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#25
nope, to be absolutely and completely honest, Mesprit is the final Gen 4 UU Pokemon to need an update, and SilentVerse already has a handle on it.

Thanks for the offer though!

In fact, the only Gen 4 Pokemon that need an update yet are OU Ninjask, OU Spiritomb, OU Azumarill, and Uber Deoxys-S and whatever LC and VGC 11 Pokemon need finished.