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UU Dark Horse Project

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Ace Emerald, Feb 12, 2013.

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  1. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Rockin' the Poliwrath now. At 1915.
  2. Magolor

    Magolor

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2012
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    102
    Making a new alt, Cinnicino is being the weak link on my team. The new alt is Marx Soul, using only Galvantula
  3. Homeslice

    Homeslice

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    537
    I'm going to be retiring from this project, it was a lot of fun using Gardevoir but I simply can't break past the 1600 mark no matter how hard I try. Going to learn the metagame a lot more first, you can delete me off the Participant list if you'd like.
  4. Ezio

    Ezio .
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Registration:
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: HyperDH
    Hall of Fame Standing: #1
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Galvantula
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: 2338

    HOF:
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: HyperDH
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Galvantula
    Screenshot of Top 50 Ladder Ranking: The glicko is kinda weird, it randomly dropped 200 points...
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:

    Galvantula @ Life Orb
    Trait: Compoundeyes
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Thunder
    - Bug Buzz
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Comments:
    Galvantula is an exceptionally potent late-game cleaner. When partnered with entry hazards, it becomes an unstoppable force. I used Rhyperior and Froslass to lay down several layers of hazards. Life Orb is the item of choice because it allows me to switch moves near the end of the game and make the most of Galvantula's monstrous coverage. I generally did not bring out Galvantula unless I knew I could sweep the opposing team or had to use it to revenge a threat. Galvantula is wonderful at tearing through weakened teams with slower Pokemon, but faster threats pose an issue. I recommend using Galvantula alongside bulky Pokemon that can tank choiced hits, and with Pokemon that can set up on these attacks. Snorlax was a complete pain in the ass but Rhyperior dealt with it solidly.

    Bug Buzz and Thunder are the customary STAB moves that basically wreck everything and complement each other nicely (Bug Buzz hits those pesky Grass mons that resist Thunder). HP Ice demolishes Gligar and non-scarfed variants of Flygon, while Giga Drain makes mincemeat of Swampert and heavily damages Rhyperior.

    Overall, laddering with Galvantula was both a fun and unique experience to me. In fact, I have never used Galvantula before lol... anyways this was enlightening because it showed me the effect underrated underused Pokemon can have in the metagame. Shout out to Ace Emerald for making this project, Gabranth for his awesome team, which inspired this effort, and ernesto for moral support :)
  5. PTJon7

    PTJon7

    Joined:
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    553
    Dang Hyperbeem congrats on reaching #1! Even more impressive that you must've done it without any S Tier pokemon.

    It has become clear that I won't be making the top 50 with my team, funnily enough I am in the top 50 thanks to a team with a Piloswine, but the team has 2 S tier pokemon. Might as well give a write up on Piloswine:

    DH Set:

    [​IMG]
    Piloswine (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef (Alterantively used 252 HP / 136 Atk / 120 Def)
    Adamant Nature
    - Icicle Crash
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Shard
    - Stealth Rock

    I found this set to be quite reliable. Eviolite makes Piloswine have very decent bulk, and Thick Fat is an excellent ability to for it to have. I would say Piloswine works best on a hail team as a bulky attacker. Not only is it immune to Hail, it isn't weak to fire and has STAB Earthquake.

    The secondary EV spread gives Piloswine a very nice amount of physical bulk. The defense EV value makes it so that V-Create is a guarenteed 3HKO, which I guess is nice to have on a hail team. The Atk EVs also let Piloswine OHKO Victini after SR damage.
  6. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    683
    I want in on this. :)

    Username: GargantuanSteel
    Hall of Fame: None (not yet anyway)
    Dark Horses: Aggron and Hariyama
    Ladder Ranking: 1585

    Record: 24-13-0

    These are two of my favorite physical attackers in RU--let's see how they do TOGETHER on a UU team.

    A teammate I've been using to serve as a spinner and get around Weaville:

    Blastoise (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpA
    Nature: Relaxed
    -Rapid Spin
    -Scald
    -Dragon Tail
    -Focus Blast

    Rapid Spin spins away Rocks to keep my team healthy. Scald is great fort the burn rate, and it also has STAB. Dragon Tail can phaze and stop setup sweepers without Substitutes, and Focus Blast provides Blastoise with more coverage, mostly for Weaville.

    At this point I also think it is time for me to post the Dark Horse sets:

    Hariyama (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Spe
    Nature: Careful
    -Bulk Up
    -Cross Chop
    -Ice Punch
    -Thunderpunch

    Bulk Up boosts Hariyama's decent defense and pretty good attack to much more threatening levels. Cross Chop is the preferred STAB since I don't want Close Combat lowering its defenses. Ice Punch is the main coverage move for Flying-types, and it is also more reliable against Grass and Ground-types who combat Hariyama such as Shaymin. Thunderpunch was preferred over Stone Edge for a super-effective hit on Milotic and better accuracy. The EVs make Hariyama a great special tank. Lastly, Blastoise often serves as Toxic bait so Hariyama can gain a Guts boost.

    Aggron (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
    Nature: Careful
    -Curse
    -Stone Edge
    -Payback
    -Avalanche

    This is an unconventional Aggron set in terms of the chosen coverage moves. Curse boosts its attack and defense much higher. Stone Edge is a great STAB for Aggron, dealing heavy damage to many SE and neutral targets such as Crobat, Mismagius, Raikou, Victini, and so on and on and on. Payback and Avalanche are moves that utilize Aggron's low speed to hit certain threats hard. However Payback's coverage is sometimes not needed, so I am considering switching it out for a different move. Aggron's great movepool gives me lots of options.

    Notable Battles:

    Battle #3: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu10733080
    Aggron leads against a Trick Room team, and abuses Curse + Stone Edge to plow through Cofagrigus, and then uses a combination of Stone Edge and Avalanche to crumble Registeel. Much of the rest of the battle involves Togekiss stalling and spreading paralysis, and Blastoise serves as Toxic bait so Hariyama can gain a Guts boost to easily plow through Cryogonal with a STAB Cross Chop. This is the team's first win.
    Battle #6: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu10870644
    This is a close one, where some good predictions allow me to utilize Houndoom and Hariyama to their best potentials. The fact that Scarf Krookodile outspeeds Sceptile without any speed boosts was very helpful for KOing it with +1 Crunch.
    Battle #7: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu10871608
    This battle lets my Dark Horses shine, as Aggron does most of the killing with its good coverage, and Hariyama manages to put a full stop to SubAutomotize Aggron.
    Battle #9: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu10873111
    Hariyama gets tricked a Choice Scarf on Turn 1 and destroys most of the team with Cross Chop. Blastoise, to my opponent's surprise, is used as an offensive threat to break through Exploud.
    Battle #10: http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu10934265
    This battle illustrates how unprepared people are for Scarf Krookodile, especially as it is faster than Scarf Heracross. Aggron gets Freeze-haxed to death by Froslass, and then Krookodile just starts "snowballing" Moxie boosts on the entire team.
    Battle #17: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu10957946
    This battle lets Houndoom shine as it skillfully works around Machamp and Slowbro. Blastoise's phazing is also seen so that Krookodile can clean up the rest of the team.
    Battle #20: http://www.piaa.org/assets/web/docu...SECTIONS_1_2_3_4_5_6_7_AND_8_(no_shading).pdf
    Hariyama's special wall spread lets it tank powerful hits from Suicune and Nidoking, and Togekiss's ability to paraflinch is shown nicely here (I was a bit lucky though). Aggron delivers the winning hit against Darmanitan.
    Battle #21:
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu11055167
    This one is noteworthy for being the first sun team this team has battled. Togekiss is probably the MVP, and Hariyama is now offically my dedicated Porygon2 counter.
    Battle £30:
    http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu11282521
    In this battle I am up against the SmashPass Gorebyss, who passes the boosts to LO Moxie Scrafty, despite being paralyzed. I sacrifice both Togekiss and Aggron to Scrafty so I can bring in Krookodile to revenge-kill it with Superpower. Blastoise was helpful for phazing Sharpedo to the point where I could KO it with Focus Blast. Another illustration on Scarf Krookodile's advantages over ScarfCross--the higher speed.
  7. FruitSeller

    FruitSeller

    Joined:
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    Venomoth has been decently successful for me. I've been using a QD BP set, as its sweeping ability is pretty low on its own. It's been pretty hard to find special sweepers that can clean up most of a team (my entire strategy is based on getting a pass off, which works 90% of the time) on their own without using tier S pokemon, but I've managed.

    I'm at 1750 atm, I'll be trying to get higher.

    Also, note to Explorer: I would suggest using rock head with head smash on aggron, it really takes it's damage way higher. Also, I would suggest putting some more EVs in hariyama's attack, as with it's speed IMO it's better to be a tank that can deal good damage without having to set up rather than setting up and then being forced out when strong attackers like azelf/honchkrow force it out.
  8. The Ordinary

    The Ordinary

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    Messages:
    14
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Spook 3.21
    Hall of Fame Standing:None
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Aggron and Sigilyph
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: Acre 1717
    [​IMG]

    Aggron (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Head Smash
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Heavy Slam

    He's underrated, and his Head Smash can really hurt if the opponent does not prepare for it. Although many players still use Rhyperior over this monster, the niche here is the typing and the Stats. Sure, the Fighting and Ground weakness sucks, but if you properly use him as a Pivot/walbreaker, he'll be great. :heart: (I can change a Dark Horse's set, right?)

    EDIT: Sorry, I overlooked the rules for Dark Horse. Here's another one:

    Sigilyph @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 64 Spd / 192 Def
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psycho Shift
    - Roost
    - Air Slash

    This Pokemon is a pain to kill, though recently it's giving me bad luck with the critical hits that prevent me from sweeping. Nevertheless, it passes burns to soften up Physical Pokemon, and at the right moment, I can sweep with the accumulated boosts. Also has nice synergy with Agrron. :)

    Edit: I haven't gotten any good opportunities to set up with Sigilyph. I should probably change the set into an offensive one, or fit a better defensive move in the set.

    Edit2:http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu12743877
    With correct planning and mindset, Sigilyph actually becomes a threat after my opponent is severely weakened. Air slash and calm mind can finish pokemon, but I feel like I wanted to change it to stored power.
  9. Explorer

    Explorer

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2012
    Messages:
    683
    First of all congratulations on your success with Venomoth. I would propose you try making your recipient a Swampert (as strange as it sounds):

    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -Hydro Pump/Scald
    -Earth Power
    -Ice Beam
    -Ancientpower/Focus Blast

    Hydro Pump and Scald are Swampert's two best special Water STABs in single battles. If really depends whether you want more power or more accuracy with a burn rate. Earth Power is also a must for this set, and it has a high base power. Ice Beam is for Grass-types on the switch-in and Zapdos. Ancientpower is a decent move for Flying and Ice-types that gives Swampert special EdgeQuake, and Focus Blast is an unreliable alternative for higher base power to hit some Fighting-weak threats harder than Hydro Pump, but many of those are covered by Earth Power.

    With your suggestions for my team, it may be a good idea to move a FEW EVs from SpD to Atk or from SpD to Def to make setup a little less urgent. However, with Aggron I often rely on Sturdy to be able to take a hit and retaliate, so I do not think I will be doing Rock Head + Head Smash. If someday I switch to a CB set, however, I will likely use that--Head Smash/Heavy Slam/Ice Punch/Earthquake or something like that.
  10. Shiny Magikarp

    Shiny Magikarp

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    Sep 9, 2012
    Messages:
    29
    Pokemon Showdown! Username: Commander Saturn
    Hall of Fame Standing:
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Aerodactyl, Gorebyss, Durant, and Electrivire
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!:

    Other Team Members: Porygon2 and Nidoking

    Yeah I know it is kind of risky to use 4 Dark Horses but, I believe it will work.
  11. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Messages:
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    Switching to Lanturn, the greatest pokemon ever.
  12. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    Hurray, made Bronze reqs with Durant. I will try for higher but I think it will be hard:

    Show Hide
    Insert Image didn't work, so I just linked it. Be warned, site ads are somewhat NSFW: [​IMG]http://postimage.org/image/xw6pynb9x/


    Complete Set:

    Durant @ Life Orb
    Trait: Hustle
    4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    -Hone Claws
    -Iron Head
    -Rock Slide
    -X-Scissor

    Comments:
    Durant's power is pretty nuts, 2HKOing all but 5 UU pokemon at +1. The toughest thing is actually getting the boost, and sometimes you can't, having to gamble instead. Durant sometimes comes in early game to scare something out and fire off an unboosted attack. It especially likes coming in on opposing Weavile and Umbreon. Later, it can set up to do better. Unfortunately, it is the easiest thing to revenge kill. EVs are straightforward, Iron Head and X-Scissor are for powerful STABs, and Rock Slide helps against stuff like Zapdos and Chandelure. Jolly is absolutely crucial for Durant, letting it outspeed no small number of threats. Life Orb seems better than Lum Berry -- I've seldom thought in a game "wish I had Lum Berry right now", and status (outside of a lucky freeze, etc.) shouldn't be an issue if you play carefully.

    As for pairings, I used a bulky offensive team with Slowbro + Togekiss + Nidoqueen to give me some defensive backbone and help me against all the scarfers that want to maul Durant. On the other hand, Durant would also fit quite well on a heavily offensive team.

    All in all, Durant is quite excellent. I don't think I've seen another on the ladder, and I encourage you to use it too! It doesn't need much support, you can put it on a team and expect it to hurt things, but play it carefully.
  13. FruitSeller

    FruitSeller

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
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    I'm switching to ferroseed, whimsicott, or alomomola. I'll probably try ferroseed first, since eviolite is fun :)

    With venomoth, I peaked at around 1770. I am having a lot of trouble trying to improve the team without using any of those S tier pokemon, so I want to try something else. It's been fun using venomoth, but with the team I've been trying it's pretty much all or nothing - I need to get a pass off. I think I achieved my goal with the dark horse because I was able to make a team so centralized on it work well, though I am disappointed I didn't get higher.

    Here's the importable:
    Possible changes - I had started with tinted lenses on venomoth, but wonder skin is better :P, also taunt>memento on whimsicott (I hate entries), and trick>HP ground on p-z
    Show Hide
    This team was easy to use because most games I would just pass two quiver dances (rather easy to get from my experience) to P-Z
    Then ladderers started using a rock, steel, and ghost type... Which I think was mainly caused by the humiliation of getting swept by turn 1 QD QD veno into tri attack porygon-z xD.
  14. FruitSeller

    FruitSeller

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
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    any way to hide quotes? sorry, I haven't quoted much before :P
  15. Mazz

    Mazz Might make a comeback
    is a Contributor Alumnus
    Mentor

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    975
    Use the [hide*][/hide*] tags, just without the asterisks.
  16. Muddyyeti

    Muddyyeti

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
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    Pokemon Showdown! Username: DiamondEyes
    Hall of Fame Standing: NA
    Dark Horse Pokemon Currently Working With: Tornadus
    Current Ladder Standing on Pokemon Showdown!: NA

    Amazed that Tornadus is below 4% in usage (in February at least), almost seems like cherry picking. I'll be using a set focusing on tailwind
  17. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
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    5,412
    Quick tangent: If you dismiss critical hits as "bad luck" with a boosting tank, you are destined to lose. They are an externality you absolutely need to plan for.

    The odds of one CH on an arbitrary turn are pretty low, yeah, 1/16th, so that's luck. But over eight turns, there's more than a 40% chance that one of the incoming hits will be a CH, and after 11 turns the odds are more likely than not that at least one hit was a CH. This is one (of many) reasons Pokemon like Raikou use Substitute with Calm Mind.
  18. Muddyyeti

    Muddyyeti

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    Need to make a correction, I've played on DiamondEyes. Instead it is DiamondIs
  19. FruitSeller

    FruitSeller

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
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    27
    Ferroseed is pretty fun - right now I'm using a stall team; as I tested different pokemon with it, the defensive pokemon just worked better with him. My original goal was getting him on an offensive team, but it seems like he loses too much momentum for that to work well.

    1790 atm
  20. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Professional
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Visual Media Head

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    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,011
    Sorry I haven't updated OP in way too long, it'll be updated by Sunday for sure. If you've qualified for the hall of fame, look forward to seeing your name up there!
  21. Muddyyeti

    Muddyyeti

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
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    *Disclaimer* I'm an absolute moron when it comes to simple things like finding a way to post a concise link to my screenshot, so please forgive the crude method in which I paste a link to a photobucket account I made solely so I could post my screen shot. I'm a dummy

    Pokemon Showdown! Username: DiamondIs
    Dark Horse Pokemon: Tornadus
    Screenshot of Top 50 Ladder Ranking:
    http://s1295.beta.photobucket.com/user/Jason_Braun/media/photo2_zpsfff442a2.jpg.html
    [​IMG]
    Dark Horse Pokemon Complete Set:


    Tornadus @ Flying Gem
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Superpower
    - Heat Wave
    - Tailwind

    Tornadus is a potent attacker and a rather unpredictable offensive pokemon in general. He's got that great base 111 speed, outpacing all of the common 100-110 speed attackers and he's got two excellent attack stats to work with. I chose to go with his lesser Atk because I didn't want to waste time setting up Rain Dance to make Hurricane reliable. STAB flying gem Acrobatics is an awfully powerful attack, taking pretty big chunks out of nearly everything that doesn't resist it. Superpower, Heat Wave and Tailwind probably look out of place, but I'll explain in a moment.

    The main goal of this admittedly peculiar set was to facilitate a late game CB Flygon sweep. Tornadus enters the game (early if I see a potential Flygon wall, late if its a bunch of speedy, frail pokes) and threatens teams with it's powerful flying STAB attack, forcing opponents to bring in their flying resists--those most often being steel types. After hitting them with Acrobatics, I usedthe appropriate coverage move (Heat Wave for Brongzong, Superpower for et al) to put them into KO range for Flygon.

    Once Tornadus has done his duty as an attacker, he's got one more sneaky trick up his sleeve: Prankster Tailwind. In today's offensive metagame, a commonly used strategy is to soften up the opponents team to the point that a powerful scarfer (Heracross) can sweep the remains. The priority Tailwind that Tornadus provides insures that as long as I keep Flygon/powerful cleaner alive, I'll never be swept by a hopeful scarfer. Pulling off a come-from-behind win with a surprise Tailwind is one of the more satisfying ways I've won a game.

    If you're using Tornadus as Tailwind support, I recommend partnering him with strong attackers with good coverage that lack just enough speed to sweep effectively. Beyond the CB Flygon that I chose to use, I'd also nominate the standard Nidoking set as a good partner. He's got the power and awesome coverage to take advantage of the speed boost and as an added bonus, is immune to the electric attacks that threaten Tornadus.

    While Tailwind is an excellent surprise move and capable of providing instant momentum, I'd like to point out a couple of the difficulties I had in using it. First of all, its got a very brief lifespan, only lasting 4 turns, including the turn Tornadus uses it. This allows your Flygon 3 turns to outspeed that dangerous Raikou, assuming your opponent ko'd Tornadus and didn't sub the turn you used Tailwind, grrrrr. A well timed substitute really poops on Tailwind's usefulness. The second major problem is the fact that you often have to sacrifice a fully healthy Tornadus just to get Tailwind up. Say your opponent manages to get an early game dragon/quiver dance and you have no poke to deal with it effectively. You send in Tornadus to get Tailwind up, but he gets ko'd in the process without ever getting to attack.

    Overall, I found using Tailwind Tornadus to be a very enjoyable experience. You can build a team dedicated to making a late game sweep happen like I did, or you can just throw Tornadus in on a balanced team as a catch-all, fail safe poke in case you face something rampaging out of control. At the very least, I hope I made a decent case that Tailwind is more viable on Tornadus than his moveset analysis page suggests (its just a throwaway mention in the other options section).

    Also, thanks to Ace Emerald for making the UU Dark Horse project available, it's a solid challenge and good fun.
  22. PTJon7

    PTJon7

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    Congrats Muddyyeti! I can totally see the value behind your Tornadus set, I'll be sure to try it out. Oh and to take a screen-cap, hit the button labeled "Print Scr" or something like that (should be around the top right of your keyboard but it may vary), then paste the image into something like MS Paint.
  23. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Professional
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Visual Media Head

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    I updated the player list, but I left out players that didn't look like they were participating (ie no ladder ranking or edits). If you are indeed participating and I missed it, please message me so I can add you.
  24. Nas

    Nas real
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

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    Messages:
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    New alt: Nighttime Vultures
    Horse: Aggron
    Current Ranking: 1880 and #52

    CB Aggron is a boss
  25. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

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    Hey Ace, just as an fyi, I changed my alt a couple days ago (refer to my first post for further info).
    I had stopped laddering because of a few setbacks that prevented me from getting reqs for Chandy, and I was waiting for the results of the voting—since using Miltank seemed pretty moot if what she was set to deal with was banned. Now I'll get back to laddering, and am also rocking [Kevin] Durant, although with a different set that fits my needs.
    Will get back to you with results.
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