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DPP UU [UU] - Team ILR (an LR / Imran collaboration)

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Legacy Raider, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider sharpening his claws, slowly
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 1, 2008
    Hey, welcome to our RMT. Or ROT, whatever =P.

    This is a team that was created by Imran and I a good few weeks ago for UU. The original idea was to abuse the potential suspects so that we could gain a good idea of their prowess, and so we would have some good experience when it came to voting time. At one point this team got four alts of ours on the leaderboard, and not only is it effective, it is really fun to use. What Imran and I both love the most about this team is its balance. Although there is a lot of offense, we comfortably run two defensive pokemon on the team, and yet do not lose momentum in battles. This is something that is rarely seen in DPP OU play, at least, and I feel it is representative of the balance of UU in that a team like this can work.

    Of course, we will greatly appreciate any comments that you have on this team, and will take any suggestions as to its improvement. Thanks very much!


    At a glance

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    So what do we see here? The main premise is to set up sub salac Gallade for a sweep. The rest can all be classed as Team support although Roserade and Staraptor all have scope to sweep on their own, and they have done so many a time. Two supporting walls help make transititons between offensive periods without losing the pressure that we apply on our opponents. At a glance, you can see there is a Toxic Spikes absorber, and we rely on the the valuable resistances that a core of Fire, Water, and Grass brings. We also try to use the defensive synergy between Slowbro and Steelix to weaken opposing teams somewhat, so that hopefully one of our four sweepers can break through with a clean sweep.


    In Depth


    @ Lum Berry
    Naughty (+Atk, -SpD)
    192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe

    ~ Flare Blitz
    ~ Extremespeed
    ~ Overheat
    ~ Toxic

    Description: Anti-lead Arcanine. Arcanine is useful for the team as it provides a useful resistance to Fire. Roserade and Steelix are both weak to it, and Slowbro doesn't have the best special defense, so Arcanine is often called on to take stray Flamethrowers. Flare Blitz + Extremespeed deal with common sashers, as well as faster pokemon such as Ambipom and Crobat. Flare Blitz + Toxic takes out Froslass while dodging the Destiny Bond. Toxic also is great for crippling bulky water switchins, in particular Slowbro and Milotic, which makes it much easier for Staraptor and Gallade to take them on. Overheat is really for lack of a better move from Arcanine's rather limited movepool. However, it does have some utility in hitting specially weak pokemon such as Steelix, Cloyster, and Weezing, and is also useful for when Arcanine is on low health and can't risk recoil from Flare Blitz. Max Atk is to power up Flare Blitz and Extremespeed as much as possible, the speed EVs allow Arcanine to outspeed Timid Abomasnow and Adamant Honchkrow, and finally the remaining EVs are put into HP to maximise Arcanine's durability against offensive leads. Lum Berry helps to deal with Status leads, for example, it takes out Sleep Powder Roserade, Spore Smeargle and allows us to 2HKO Registeel who usually try to use Thunder Wave straight off the bat.

    For a more in depth explanation of the lead Arcanine set and how it deals with common leads, see here.

    LR: In UU, leads are arguably even more important than in OU. Your lead not only dictates how the match will begin, but start off with a bad matchup and you could lose so much momentum that it becomes exceedingly difficult to come back for a win. Arcanine reliably sets up the team in a favourable position right from the get go, and the reliability with which it deals with opposing leads is actually a major factor in this team's success. Arcanine's best quality, however, has to be how useful it is later on in the game too. Its Extremespeed is extremely appreciated in taking out faster, frail threats, and the raw power provided by its Flare Blitz helps lots with the 'pummeling process', as we like to call it =P. Lum also makes it a one time status absorber, and it makes for great death fodder with Intimidate. All in all, this has got to be possibly my favourite pokemon in all of UU.

    Imran: LRcanine! The main reason I have decided to keep this lead? It gets me in an advantageous position 90% of the time. A lot of the common leads are either beaten by it, or have to run from it to avoid getting beaten by it. Intelligant Froslass get 2 layers of Spikes, although most get one, and those are perhaps the leads that this Pokemon does "the worst" against. Not only that but it can use Toxic to start wearing down those that counter it as well. I guess the reason I prefer this over Crobat is it gets me on a real offensive footing early in the game, as opposed to the slightly passive "don't let your opponant set up" tone that Crobat sets.



    @ Sharp Beak
    Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    ~ Brave Bird
    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Roost

    Description: Staraptor draws out Gallade's counters and does systematic damage to them, in particular things like Spiritomb and Slowbro, which only need to be weakened for Gallade to beat them. Substitute avoids status from the likes of Registeel, as well as easing prediction, so we don't take recoil or lower our defenses hitting something for resisted damage. Roost is important for recovering Brave Bird recoil, Substitute HP loss, and SR damage, and is vital in allowing Staraptor to repeatedly come in to threaten the opposing team. This is of particular importance as we decided we didn't have room for a spinner on as offensively based a team as this. The ground immunity and the additional Intimidate are also very helpful for the team as a whole.

    Jolly puts us at least as fast as the majority of opposing Staraptor and Shaymin. The item choice was a hard - Leftovers was useful in keeping Staraptor alive, but we found that we weren't doing enough damage, and that the recovery pretty much gave away the set. Sharp Beak makes for a great alternative - it gives us just enough power to get the 2HKO on Spiritomb, doesn't give any additional recoil, and allows us to feign as CB for quite a while.

    LR: Imran recommended the Sub Roost Staraptor set - I was all ready to slap on a CB and call it a day - and boy, am I glad he did =). This thing terrifyingly effective. Like a systematic serial killer coming in over and over again to pick off weakened targets, Staraptor is always a thorn in my opponent's side. It cheats its SR and Brave Bird death sentence with Roost, meaning it usually continues to harass the opponent throughout the game. My experiences with this set are largely responsible for my decision to nominate it as a BL suspect.

    Imran: SubRoost Raptor has literally swept teams. So many Pokemon give it a free Substitute by using Will-o-Wisp and Thunder Wave you wouldn't believe. Once safely behind a Substitute, it can 2HKO the majority of the Pokemon in the game! There is really not much more to say here, use it yourself and see the spectacular results. There is so much hype around the CB set, but honestly, if I vote to ban Starator it will be because of this set, not any others. If users catch on, it will most likely lose it's effect, although this is unlikely to happen soon, people are just too scared of CB!



    @ Choice Scarf
    Natural Cure
    Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    ~ Leaf Storm / Energy Ball
    ~ Sleep Powder / Spikes
    ~ Sludge Bomb
    ~ Hidden Power Ground

    Description: Scarf Roserade adds some very welcome speed to the team, and acts as a primary revenge killer for a myriad of threats. Imran and I use it in different ways with different sets - I use it primarily as a revenge killer, whereas he uses it as a revenge killer (silly Legacy Raider, I revenge kill with it too, I just like to set up Spikes when I know that a counter is coming in ^_^). Sludge Bomb and Leaf Storm provide strong STAB options, Sludge Bomb with some reliability and Leaf Storm for an explosive punch to take out not only bulky Waters but a myriad of other Pokemon with less-than-reliable Special Defense. Sleep Powder is a very useful, albeit not fully reliable, way of removing a threatening pokemon from the game. Hidden Power Ground is useful for hitting the Steel types that resist Roserade's STAB attacks, while also hitting Drapion and grounded poisons in general, which are quite common switchins into Roserade. However, by not running HP Fire, Roserade is a bit more vulnerable to Crobat. Roserade serves another very useful purpose, to remove Toxic Spikes, which mess up Slowbro, Arcanine and and most importantly Gallade all of whom cannot afford to take extra residual damage. She also acts as our makeshift status absorber.

    I (Imran) like to use Spikes over Sleep Powder as I find the extra residual damage more appealing than being locked into a Sleep Move. Not only can I scout for counters, but instead of taking out one Pokemon (that can probably be handled elsewhere) I can make it harder for the majority of other teams' members to switch around. I find this especially useful against Chansey, who doean't care about Sleep Powder, especially when we are locked into it. Energy Ball goes on that set, as Leaf Storm is illegal with Spikes (as is Sleep Powder incidentally), and although the drop in power isn't great, it still deals respectable damage to bulky Waters, and other weaker Pokemon.

    LR: Don't listen to Imran, he's silly to not run Sleep Powder. And lol, Energy Ball? =) Roserade is another vital part of the team. It's natural poison typing soaks up Toxic Spikes upon entry, meaning that the team is not slaughtered by hail or stall in general. Roserade is the vengeful one on the team, coming back over and over to smack something with its 210 power Leaf Storm. It is also the desperation pokemon, as with its accurate Sleep Powder, it can take out almost any threat once in the game. And for lack of anything better to go to, Roserade serves as a makeshift status absorber.

    Imran: My Roserade obviously is the superior set! In all honesty, I have tried out both sets, and I like them both as much as each other, so "each to his own" I guess. The residual damage and the offesnive nature of this team really works well, as it forces switches, switches cause damage, which causes 2HKOes to become 1HKOes etc... This is absolutely wonderful for checking threats too, it outspeeds the majority of things and deals a lot of damage with it's dual STABs, even if Energy Ball is the move of choice. Absorbing Water attacks aimed at Arcanine gives a lot of "almost" free switchins, with allows for setting up Hazards. Even if they stay in and Ice Beam, Steelix has them covered! (mostly anyway)



    @ Passho Berry
    Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe

    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Iron Head
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Explosion

    Description: 'BaitLix'. Steelix serves as a general physical wall and SR user, but on this team also has another important purpose - to draw in and take out bulky water types with Explosion. The Passho Berry, +SpD nature and SpD EVs allow it to do this reliably. The real reason for this is not just Slowbro and Milotic, who can be dealt with by our other pokemon, but Azumarill. Aqua Jet poses a great risk to Gallade's sub salac sweep, and Steelix is very helpful in removing this threat. The Atk EVs give Steelix's Explosion the maximum power, allowing it to do a sizable chunk even to things like Slowbro. Because of its lack of HP and Defense investment, this Steelix set doesn't stick around quite as long as the it normally would. We wanted it to outspeed other opposing Steelix to get the first EQs, so we went for a neutral nature and Iron Head. Iron Head also outdamages Gyro Ball against Abomasnow, Glaceon, and Articuno among other things, and is not quite as easy to sub Roost stall away. Steelix is also our best bet against Sub CM Raikou, which is another situation in which the Special Defense EVs really go all the way.

    LR: Another of Imran's ideas for the set. I have to be honest, I never really mastered the way to use this set until quite a few days into us using this team. I tended to play it like a normal Steelix, using it to take the majority of physical assaults against the team. Steelix died a lot, and so I began to think it was a crap set. But I then watched Imran in some of his battles, and he showed me how to use it more as an offensive pokemon than a defensive one. Because really, that is what BaitLix is. It's primary purpose on this team is to set up SR, get a bit of damage in, and then Explode, weakening the foe's defensive core so that something can sweep. It really works beautifully once you learn how to use it, and serves its purpose excellently on this team, paving the way for Gallade to sweep in the late game.

    Imran: My Baitlix set. Although the original Baitlix team was built around luring out and killing bulky waters, it is on this team as more of an after-thought. It is a wall, but one that can go on the offense at any second. If your opponent has a bulky water, you can be pretty sure that they will send it in on Steelix, and once it is gone, it makes it a lot easier for Gallade, Staraptor and Arcanine to sweep. The usual drill is just to SR and Explode, although sometimes it is nessecary to keep it around for a little longer due to the presence of Raikou. Offensive Steelix is a fun Pokemon to use, and benefits this team massivly, thanks to the sheer power of Explosion and it's unpredictability.



    @ Leftovers
    Own Tempo
    Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SpD

    ~ Surf
    ~ Ice Beam
    ~ Thunder Wave
    ~ Slack Off

    Description: Slowbro's is really the only 'standard' set on the team. It is really the only pure defensive pokemon, and is necessary to stop things like Azumarrill and Hitmontop from rampaging through the rest of the rather frail team. It also provides very useful paralysis support for Gallade and Staraptor, neither of whom are exceedingly fast, and both of whom can use the free turn to set up a Substitute. Its typing also has great synergy with Steelix, resisting the Fire, Fighting, and Water attacks that plague him, while Steelix can take Dark, Ghost and Electric attacks thrown at Slowbro. Surf and Ice Beam are for general coverage, and Slack Off is for healing.

    LR: "If in doubt, go to Slowbro". Really, this thing is amazing. The amount of physical abuse it can take is unreal haha. The little pink hermit crab thing (?) is an extremely reliable pokemon, and usually ends up paralysing a good portion of the opponent's team. Despite this being a very offensively based team, I have had times when I've taken out a key sweeper and simply walled the opposing team to death with Slowbro. The reliable recovery provided by Slack Off, as well as decent powered Surfs and Ice Beams, really make Slowbro a great addition.

    Imran: Many teams talk about the "glue," and if such a concept really exists it is Slowbro on this team. It counters many threats that would be dangerous to us, and the random paralysis that it dishes out helps to no end in setting up Substitutes, that really are the central idea in this team. If forms part of the Fire, Water, Grass core of this team, and always pulls his weight in the battles. Slowbro acts as my "go to guy" a lot of the time, which is something that I feel a team needs, if he is not countering and supporting, he will be scouting a switchin, and "taking one for the team."



    @ Salac Berry
    Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
    12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe

    ~ Close Combat
    ~ Night Slash
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Swords Dance

    Description: Sub Salac Gallade overcomes the two difficulties that usually prevent Gallade from sweeping - its mediocre speed and its vulnerability to status. By subbing down to the Salac boost and hopefully getting a Swords Dance in the process, Gallade primes itself to break past its weakened counters and sweep teams with its horribly powerful Close Combat. Night Slash combines with Close Combat to give nearly unresisted coverage (damn Toxicroak) in UU, and is a more reliable option than Stone Edge. It allows Gallade to get a clean 2HKO on Slowbro after an SD, and can also deal with Spiritomb and Claydol as well.

    Jolly and the Spe EVs give Gallade 423 speed after the boost, enough to outspeed scarf Rotom and +1 neutral base 90s such as Moltres and Roserade. It also allows Gallade to outspeed Jolly max speed Feraligatr before the boost. The 12 HP EVs give Gallade a HP stat divisible by 4, making Salac activate on the third Sub down. Max attack to let it hit things. Hard.

    LR: The star of the show. Gallade is what this team is really all about. While the other 5 members work well together and deal with most team decently, they are really in fact all setting up for a late game Gallade sweep. Arcanine's Toxics, Slowbro's Thunder Waves, Steelix's Explosion, all pave the path of rampage that Gallade takes during the final turns of a battle. I literally went up to Imran one day and said "Let's make a team around a sub salac Gallade sweep", and that's how team ILR started =). Let Gallade get down to +2 Atk and +1 Speed, and the opponent better hope they have a priority attack left somewhere or a one of the handful of things that can stop it, or otherwise it can often be gg there and then. A really formidable sweeper.

    Imran: The team's main sweeper. I have always really enjoyed the way that this set beats Staraptor. (Those that aren't scarfed anyway [damn you AbsolDeath]) It is very easy to set up and with paralysis all over the place, it is ever so easy to accomplish. Along with it's monstous attack, Gallades special bulk can really come to play in a tight spot. It can survive attacks from Shaymin, Raikou and friends and Close Combat back for the KO, sometimes against Shaymin, I can blindly Swords Dance as they Seed Flare, and get my boost anyway! This is by far the best finisher in UU at the moment, with the right support, and boy am I glad that we based the team around this set, rather than the LO set I originally had in mind!



    Final Glance

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

  2. Imran

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    May 3, 2008
    Defensive Threats

    [​IMG] Abomasnow -
    Uggh, Abomasnow. Leading ones can usually be forced out by Arcanine. Steelix can survive a Blizzard and hit it hard back with Iron Head. Slowbro likes to paralyse it on the switch in, and Roserade, Staraptor and Gallade hit it damn hard. Abomasnow itself isn't an issue.

    [​IMG] Articuno - "lol," Articuno isn't generally an issue, although SubRoost versions can be annoying, Steelix does OK against them, but generally the tactic is to get SR up and then keep the pressure on it. (pun intended)

    [​IMG] Blastoise - Steelix generally handles this with Passho Explosion. Arcanine can Toxic and then stall out with Slowbro, and Roserade finds it easy to switch in on Surfs and Energy Ball / Leaf Storm. Can be annoying to handle is Steelix has gone, or if it carries Rest.

    [​IMG] Chansey - Roserade carrying Spikes can use Blissey switch ins to set up, especially as it doesn't fear Toxic, Thunder Wave or even Seismic Toss. Gallade and Staraptor can set up Subs on it as they will either switch out, protect or (if desparate) Thunder Wave. Steelix is also a good initial switch for an easy SR set up.

    [​IMG] Claydol - Roserade fears Ice Beam / Psychic but can otherwise come in and Leaf Storm. Slowbro kind of fears Shadow Ball but hits it hard with Surf, it can't reliably recover and Slowbro can, so barring SpD drops, Slowbro will win. Staraptor can beat it with 2 Brave Birds if it switches in on a Substitute.

    [​IMG] Clefable - Clefable is annoying. The biggest problem is predicting around possible Thunder Waves. Steelix can explode on it. If Staraptor and Gallade can get in safely Clefable won't be around for long. Arcanine hits it very hard, and they often try to Thunder Wave meaning we can 2HKO. Encore Clefable in particular can be a pain, as a smart user can easily force repeat Substitutes and SR, etc.

    [​IMG] Cloyster - Not seen too many, most are leads. Arcanine does a number on them with Overheat. Roserade can switch in against non-Ice Shard vareints and hit it hard with Leaf Storm / Energy Ball. Staraptor and Gallade also hit it hard. The real issue with it is Spikes. Toxic Spikes can be dealt with using Roserade, and if it tries to set up Spikes on Steelix, we can Explode.

    [​IMG] Cradily - Can be set up fodder for Staraptor / Gallade, depending on the set. Arcanine also hits it hard or can Toxic it. Iron Head hurts it but it can usually heal it off. I would say "potential problem," but it is too uncommon.

    [​IMG] Drapion - What does it do? Leads like to set up Toxic Spikes against Arcanine who 3HKOs, and Roserade gets the spikes later. Other than that defensive Drapion does nothing, and is not a problem to this team.

    [​IMG] Gastrodon - Not a problem for this team. Again Steelix can explode on it and Gallade / Staraptor can pummel it. Roserade hits it hard, and Arcanine can Toxic it.

    [​IMG] Hypno - I have only seen a couple of these. Mostly outclassed by Chansey but could be a bit of an issue. It is bulky enough to deal with Roserade, especially if it is running Energy Ball. Arcanine and Staraptor are our best bets, unless Gallade can set up ^_^

    [​IMG] Kangaskhan - Again, rare. Gallade and Staraptor just pummel it. Can be trouble if it gets a Sub up, but really, that can go for a lot of things. Slowbro can generally deal with it, as can Steelix.

    [​IMG] Lanturn - Steelix can Explode / Earthquake, but this can get annoying as it gets a completely free switch into Slowbro. Gallade hits it hard, and Staraptors CC does well against it. We would want to have a Sub up as it comes in though. Roserade can switch in and pummel it! Arcanine can Toxic but takes a lot from Surf, obviously. The biggest threat here is really the potential paralysis that can cripple our sweepers.

    [​IMG] Lapras - Hit hard again by Grass and two Fighting attacks. Steelix can explode and Arcanine can Toxic. "See all other bulky waters." Curse + Ice Shard can get annoying, although they are not popular, and quite easily outstalled by Slowbro.

    [​IMG] Luxray - Defensivly deals with Staraptor very well, Steelix walls it completely though. Roserade also hits it hard although Light Screen deal with this. Although it is "hard to take down" it also cannot do anything back!

    [​IMG] Meganium - Roserade can switch in and Sludge Bomb, Staraptor hits it hard and Gallade can set up on it (sometimes) Arcanine hits it hard also. It has no recovery, so will go down one way or another.

    [​IMG] Mesprit - Quite uncommon, mostly seen as leads, just Toxic-ed by Arcanine and then outstalled by Slowbro. Steelix can also set up on it as most don't run an attacking move other than Psychic. It can also be pummeled by Staraptor, but again, we'd like to have a Sub up as it switches in.

    [​IMG] Milotic - Steelix generally Explodes on it to good effect, Roserade can switch in on anything but Ice Beam and can set up spikes on the switch and pummel it with Leaf Storm. Staraptor with a sub 2HKOes etc... "see all other bulky waters". Despite its Defense being boosted by Toxic, Arcanine's poison will slowly wear away and defeat all but ResTalk sets.

    [​IMG] Miltank - Dual Fighting deals well with this, Steelix can set up SR on it too. It would be more annoying if it didn't do anything but just sit there. It's clerical abilities can be frustrating when it heals a fully poisoned and paralysed team, though.

    [​IMG] Moltres - Very VERY annoying. Sub Roost versions can switch in with ease on Steelix and Sub as we go to Slowbro. Toxic, switch out and come back to stall later. We have no spin blocking of this team, so spinning is not too hard for an opponant. It OHKOes Raptor and Steelix, walls Gallade, Arcanine and Roserade, you see it now? Often we don't kill it at all e_e!

    [​IMG] Muk - Not really that common, but can get annoying Staraptor (iirc) has a hard time 2HKOing and Gallade can't touch it. Slowbro can wear it down but may die to random Explosions. Steelix deals with it, but may often have exploded (as is it's purpose) and Arcanine hits it hard. HP Ground from Roserade does "a bit"

    [​IMG] Nidoqueen - Can be anooying as Gallade / Raptor can find it hard to break it, although it does fall to repeated hits. Roserade also hits it hard, and so does Arcanine. Slowbro doesn't really fear it and Steelix only fears mixed versions.

    [​IMG] Porygon2 - Almost non existant. Gallade sets up on it quite easily as usually its first response is Thunder Wave, which allows for a free sub. Arcanine can Toxic it, which completely ruins it and Steelix walls it / Sets up SR.

    [​IMG] Probopass - Only seen one and I hit it on the switch in with EQ. Sorry Reachzero =( Can trap Steelix and Magnet Rise and this is where Iron Head comes in useful. If it does succesfully trap Steelix, we will have bulky water problems, as I don't trust Roserade to reliably switch in!

    [​IMG] Quagsire - "see other bulky Waters e_e" Only Quagsire is KOed even by Energy Ball, whereas Leaf Storm is usually necessary for the others. Not much of a concern.

    [​IMG] Regigigas - Not seen much, Gallade and Raptor pummel it but they fear T-Wave. This team actually isn't great against it as the two things that can hurt it fear switching in, and that gives it free turns to get it's act together. it is not common, however, and therefore is not much of a problem.

    [​IMG] Regirock - Again hit hard by Raptor, Roserade and Gallade. Rock Polish versions are generally dealt with by Steelix and Slowbro, not at all a large threat.

    [​IMG] Regice - See Regirock, except it does well against Roserade and Slowbro, Steelix does well against most versions, though. Arcanine does well here.

    [​IMG] Registeel - Raptor and Gallade don't like Thunder Wave, but if they get in freely can set up a sub as they try to Thunder Wave. Roserade can set up Spikes as it comes in and Steelix deals with it quite well. Arcanine also does well here.

    [​IMG] Rotom - Rotom is a problem. Staraptor barely 2HKOes with Sharp Beak Brave Bird and SR, but it is not guaranteed. It can burn Steelix, and hit Slowbro hard. Roserade can deal a lot of damage to it. Gallade can absorb a Shadow Ball and Sub / SD / Salac (iirc) but that's not always possible depending on how long the match has been, Arcanine does OK, bur risks being hit hard by Thunderbolt. Roserade can revenge / switch in on Thunderbolt.

    [​IMG] Shuckle - Can be annoying although it is generally broken by a set up Gallade, or repetitive hits from Staraptor. Steelix actually hits it reasonbably hard with Iron Head, the best thing about Shuckle is it doesn't do too much, and isn't that common.

    [​IMG] Slowbro - Passho Explosion, Roserade, Arcanine's Toxic. Much the same as all other water types, apart from it having a massive Def stat and Fighting resistance, meaning Staraptor and Gallade don't do quite as much as normal.

    [​IMG] Spiritomb - Again, here the pummeling strategy is used. With Sharp Beak, Staraptor 2HKOes, and Arcanine takes a significant chunk out of it with Flare Blitz. Roserade also hits it quite hard with Leaf Storm if it hasn't set up more than one Calm Mind.

    [​IMG] Umbreon - Mean Look pass can be annoying, although often it is against Staraptor who can set up a Sub on the pass to scount the switch in. Other than that Gallade deals with it, Arcanine Toxics it, and Steelix walls Curse versions who don't BP.

    [​IMG] Uxie - All Uxie really does is Yawn, which can be easily played around. The pummeling strategy applies here, unless it sets up Trick Room, in which case we could be insignificant trouble. Dual Screen Uxie can be troublesome, but can be used as set up fodder for Gallade, as Memento doesn't go through sub.

    [​IMG] Weezing - Is a problem on paper, but when facing a team like this, lack of reliable recovery really hurts it, arcanine 2HKOes with Overheat / Flare Blitz, and Staraptor can Sub on the WoW and then two Brave Birds really hurt it, if they don't KO. However, there is no real reliable way to deal with it, so the pummeling strategy is once again utilised as it rarely carries recovery.
    Offensive Threats

    [​IMG] Absol - Not too common, I remember paralysing them with Slowbro ^_^ Arcanine messes up Sucker Punch versions who take 45% from Extremespeed and are slower than it, so Sucker Punch fails.

    [​IMG] Altaria - Again, not too common. Steelix deals quite well with DD version and can Explode in extreme cases. Slowbro can paralyse temporarily and Ice Beam, and Roserade can revenge.

    [​IMG] Ambipom - Steelix forces it out every time. Even after he has exploded Slowbro does a fine job here. Arcanine can Extremespeed and Roserade can revenge. If Gallade hasn't taken any CC drops it gets a Steadfast boost from Fake Out which does ~ 60% Staraptor can also Intimidate.

    [​IMG] Arcanine - Slowbro deals with it, Roserade can survive an Extremespeed and revenge, same goes for Staraptor who can Roost off damage.

    [​IMG] Azumarill - Slowbro again deal with this, and getes a free Thunder Wave off, Steelix can deal with it with Passho Berry and Explode. Roserade doesn't care about Aqua Jet unless it is very low, and can take it out with STAB Grass.

    [​IMG] Blaziken - Slowbro deals with this. ThunderPunch doesn't do loads as we proceed to Thunder Wave it. Agility versions can be revenged by Arcanine.

    [​IMG] Camerupt - Slowbro is again our insurance against this, although it may die to Explosion. Non-Rock Polish versions are rare, and can be revenged by a whole bunch of things lol.

    [​IMG] Charizard - BellyZard is dangerous to any team, although Slowbro does OK to non Thunder Punch versions, Arcanine can also revenge it. Mix Zard is dealt with by Slowbro, and revenged by Roserade, if it gets out of hand. The SR weak will hopefully cripple it.

    [​IMG] Crobat - Leads are dealt with by Arcanine, unless they are clever and run out. Sleep Powder Roserade can deal with it, and Steelix can kinda deal with it if we predict well. Personally I like dealing with by by utilising Stealth Rock and two Roserade Sludge Bombs ^_^

    [​IMG] Drapion - Offensive Drapion is not too scary. Steelix can Earthquake it, and even Night Slash does pittance to Slowbro who can do the usual Thunder Wave trick. Revenged by Staraptor and Roserade "can" hit it with HP Ground.

    [​IMG] Espeon - A lot are choiced and so I can use Steelix / Slowbro as good switch in to psychics. CM versions are more difficult, although Gallade can survive weak shadow balls and hit back and Arcanine can Extremespeed. Slowbro can Paralyse them, but risks taking a lot form Shadow ball. Low level threat.

    [​IMG] Feraligatr - Steelix can survive boosted Waterfalls and Explode, and Slowbro can Paralyse non-Substitute versions. As long as we don't let it get more than one DD, Roserade can revenge. Arcanine and Staraptor can intimidate, and Arcanine can as always revenge with Extremespeed, although it fears Waterfall.

    [​IMG] Froslass - Only ever seen leading unless they're in hail. Arcanine deals well with leads by Flare Blitz + Toxic, but Hail annoyers can be... annoying. I think this really applies to all teams though, as once you miss and they get a sub up it's hell, its really a game of luck, and not much we can do about it.

    [​IMG] Gallade - Starapto, Staraptor, Staraptor. I am yet to see an opposing Sub / SD Gallade like ours, so Raptor has always been able to revenge. Slowbro also does a good job of walling it although it can beat it with Shadow Sneak if weakened. Arcanine also revenges those SD versions, and would deal with Sub SD too.

    [​IMG] Glaceon - Scarf versions are paralysed by Slowbro and killed by Arcanine, Roserade is also faster and can revenge. Even Steelix can survive a Blizzard and hit it hard with Iron Head. Only ever seen in Hail which as an ovverall effect is quite bad for this team, but Glaceon itself not too problematic.

    [​IMG] Hariyama - First off, users will use it to counter lead arcanine, which makes it easy to then Toxic. Guts versions obviously won't switch in on Arcanine and can at least be paralysed by Slowbro and then dealt with by most anything. Staraptor and Roserade easily revenge, and Gallade can take out weakened ones / set up on paralysed ones.

    [​IMG] Hitmonlee - "Slowbro," although Sucker Punch hurts and we can't paralyse it, we can generally force it out as most are choiced. Non-choiced versions are dealt with by Staraptor and Roserade, as well as Arcanine's trusty Extremespeed.

    [​IMG] Hitmontop - Rapid Spin is annoying, especially if coupled with Sub Roost Moltres >_< As a general rule we can paralyse and Intimidate this Pokemon so that it no longer becomes an issue and Slowbro takes out non-rest versions by itself. it has not been an issue. Roserade can revenge the Tech set, although sharing Fake Outs around the team is trouble some if both Steelix and Slowbro are gone e_e

    [​IMG] Honckrow - Usually paralysed by Slowbro although CB sets can be problematic if I can't predict around them. SuperPower takes out Steelix, Night Slash takes out Slowbro and Drill Peck hits everything else really hard. Discovering the set can be hard, but once that is done it can be removed by either Staraptor or Arcanine. Possibly even Roserade if we're desperate!

    [​IMG] Houndoom - Usually they switch into Arcanine for the Flash FIre boost, in which case we proceed to 2HKO with Extremespeed whilst they only hit me once (assuming they have LO) If they don't have LO, we 3HKO with Extremespeed whilst they don't KO with 2 Dark Pulses. I have never seen it outside of that situation, but it can be revenged at any time by Roserade, Arcanine and Staraptor if nessecary. Gallade also doesn't get OHKOed with the Flash Fire boost and can Close Combat.

    [​IMG] Kabutops - Only seen on Rain Teams. Roserade is really our insurance against Rain Teams and even with Rain Dance and Life Orb, Aqua Jet isn't doing much whilst we Energy Ball / Leaf Storm will. Our first answer however is Slowbro who paralyses it, or whatever switches in (hopefully Ludicolo ^_^) so Kabutops isn't really that big an issue. Even Steelix can Passho / Earthquake if that is really nessecary!

    [​IMG] Leafeon - Roserade handles this nicely as does Staraptor, if the leafeon user decides to get clever with prediction, then Steelix is obviously a great option too. Oh, did I mention Arcanine too, I don't really think this is a threat!

    [​IMG] Linoone - Steelix deals with Belly Drum versions, and well, all versions. ReachZeros team is the only one I faces with this in and I manaed to deal with Probopass by hitting it on the switch with Earthquake. Read "Probopass" for further description, not a threat.

    [​IMG] Magmortar - OK this thing actually does give us some trouble. Thunderbolt really hurts stuff, and predicting around it can be costly if done wrong. Either way if I switch Slowbro into a Thunderbolt I'm in serious trouble. Staraptor can revenge non scarf versions, and Roserade can revenge all versions that aren't scarf and stuck in Flamethrower / Fire Blast. Gallade can survive one attack generally and hit back. Kinda medium scale threat.

    [​IMG] Marowak - Only seen in trick room, and generally that makes for a prediction heavy battle. I can get Staraptor in on an Earthquake and intimidate, and then go to Slowbro, although going to Slowbro first works, it means I take an awful lot from Earthquake =( If I can get it in on an intimidated Rock Slide, then Surf deals with it nicely if I don't then it does a lot and it can hurt in the long run. Outside of TR or Speed boosts it is easy to deal with.

    [​IMG] Medicham - Slowbro deal with this, it is also usually scarfed so playing around it is actually quite easily. Especially as they are forced to run Brick Break or Hi Jump Kick, both of which are generally shitty moves. Has not been a threat. Also, it almost always leads, which makes it even easier to deal with.

    [​IMG] Mismagius - Argh! This thing is a huge threat. Our best hope is usually to paralyse it on the switch into Slowbro, but if I lost the Sub / First Calm Mind war then its trouble. mostly because I rely on Staraptor and Arcanine to revenge stuff and that just doesn't work here. Also, user stupidity comes into play here, as many of them switch right into Steelix Iron Head, and HP Fighting doesn't OHKO ^_^ best option is to wear it down, sacrifice something to break the sub and then sacrifice / severly damage something else to take it down!

    [​IMG] Nidoking - "Not very common" and offensive versions are easily revenged by Staraptor and Roserade. Admittedly a Nidoking user with good prediction will do some damage lol, so we have checks rather than counters, but we can get over that, especaially as you don't see much of it, and it lacks the power to OHKO stuff mostly.

    [​IMG] Ninetales - Usually dealt with by Arcanine, who comfortably walls Energy Ball / Flamethrower, even if they do grab a Flash Fire boost (See Houndoom). Arcanine also wakes up from Hypnosis with Lum. Slowbro can take one Enery Ball and paralyse (iirc) and Gallade can do the same survive an attack and hit back trick (again iirc) Roserade revenges if things get out of hand.

    [​IMG] Omastar - Only an offensive threat under Rain in which case Slowbro does nicely as it can survive Surf + HP Electric and paralyse and stall out with Slack off. defensive versions usually lead, which sucks because Arcanine can do squat to them, Toxic won't stop them from setting up Spikes / Toxic Spikes. Roserade is the initial switch in and we go from there, Staraptor and Gallade also hit it extremely hard.

    [​IMG] Pinsir - Not seen very commonly, but is generally beaten by the combination of Slowbro and Steelix. Good prediction again rules in this situation and one wrong move can be deadly but with a double intimidate to play around with too, this ends up not being too much of a threat. On that note it is easily revenge killed by Roserade or Staraptor.

    [​IMG] Poliwrath - Gets a free switch in on Slowbro which is annoying. Most are bulk up varients, and Staraptor and Roserade handle quite neatly, and again Steelix can blow up if things get dire, so there is enough to play around with. Lucking no one runs CB Poliwrath, otherwise we could be in for a spot of bother, although admittedly, paralysing with slowbro initially is a good safe bet!

    [​IMG] Primeape - "Slowbro" see all other fighting types lol, there really is not much more to say here, good day.

    [​IMG] Raikou - Steelix handles SubCM varients, which for some reason are the most popular. Sometimes it is possible to get away with paralysing it on the swtich into Slowbro, which is lucky, but not actually that uncommon. Roserade and Arcanine can revenge and Gallade can even take an attack from +1 and KO back with Close Combat (IIRC) A threat, but a low level one, offensive LO Raikou, although rare, can give this team serious problems.

    [​IMG] Roserade - Initial switch is always our own Roserade to absorb Sleep Powder or Leaf Storm. This is a general rule unless it is obvious that something else is coming. If they Sleep Powder generally I go to Staraptor unless i feel they will Sleep Powder again expecting the switch, in which case I stay in (duh ^_^) From there Staraptor can scare out their switch or proceed to OHKO / force a switch. More generally Roserade can revenge non scarf varients or those stuck in Leaf Storm, Arcanine can Extremespeed Scarf varients too.

    [​IMG] Sceptile - Roserade comes in on Leaf Storm / Blade and scares it out, Steelix does OK at tackling all physical sets, as do Staraptor and to a lesser extent Arcanine. To fully keep this in check we really depend on Roserade to back him into a corner and kill him, as you an never sure what it might try to pull against slower members of the team.

    [​IMG] Scyther - Again not common, Stealth Rock and Steelix are decent answers to this, as is Arcanine, double intimidate and Scarf Roserade, enough checks and counter, I feel =D

    [​IMG] Sharpedo - Aqua Jet makes this thing infinately harder to deal with, as does Crunch. Crunch means it takes a good chunk out of Slowbro before it is paralysed, and Aqua Jet means we cant rely on Staraptor, Arcanine or Gallade to get the job done. It usually falls to Roserade to get it finished, althogh Passho Steelix is an option, but definately not a primary one. LO versions can be finished off by Arcanine Extremespeed. Not that common anyhow.

    [​IMG] Shaymin - Aaaaah Shaymin. Roserade likes to switch into Seed Flare, but other than that we are in a bit of a pickle. Usually relying on Starptor to get a bit of luck and outspeed maybe later in the game. Roserade does a good job of revenging at any point. As an interesting note, Gallade can survive Air Slash or Seed Flare, and Swords Dance whilst getting the Salac Boost, that almost saved my ass in the tour, except, stupid ScarfRaptor, anyway, a bit of a threat, but not a horrible one.

    [​IMG] Slaking - Even if it kills something it is set up bait for Staraptor and Gallade, nuff said.

    [​IMG] Staraptor - Steelix and Slowbro can generally handle this. Arcanine and Roserade can revenge, although Roserade struggles against Scarf versions >_< Probably UUs largest threat, we have it covered here, but not nessecarily countered. It can do a lot of damage if played correctly.

    [​IMG] Swellow - "Steelix." Roserade can also revenge. As can Arcanine, Slowbro can (iirc) survive a Facade and hit it back hard with Ice Beam.

    [​IMG] Tauros - Covred by Steelix and Slowbro, especially Slowbro who can paralyse. Double intimidate helps as does Roserade and Arcanine's Extremespeed.

    [​IMG] Typhlosion - Slowbro handles this nicely, although (lol) the SunnyBeamer can give him issues, but not other Pokemon such as Staraptor and Roserade who get a free switch in to SolarBeam. Again, a low level threat.

    [​IMG] Ursaring - Handled by Steelix in the majority, Again, Extremespeed and Staraptor can help with this as can roserade. usually they are already statused, so paralysis doesn't help, but on the other hand Quick Feet versions don't do much to Slowbro and our sweepers outspeed guts versions to revenge kill.

    [​IMG] Venusaur - Can be a bit of a pain but Sleep Powder, Energy Ball and Leech Seed are all absorbed by Roserade. Staraptor can Brave Bird and Arcanine can Flare Blitz. More checked than countered, but that really is UU at the moment. (and arguably Pokemon)

  3. Colloquy


    Oct 25, 2008
    Just popping in first to say that this is an incredible team, and I've had it used on me a lot, for unpleasant results.

    Okay, so. Any real reason behind Intimidate on Arcanine other than Ambipom leads and the odd Staraptor, who can be handled by Steelix? I'd say go Flash Fire to handle opposing Fire-types aiming for your rather Fire-type weak team, but I guess it's personal preference. Note that since BaitLix doesn't get SR up too much, (well, at least in my testing) Flash Fire is helpful for taking hits from the evil SubMoltres, who your team can't really handle. Sleep Powder + Leaf Storm is better than Spikes + Energy Ball on Roserade because sleep is awesome and the raw power behind Leaf Storm is way more damaging than Energy Ball.

    Your Mismagius weak is a bit troubling, but I suppose it's beaten by good prediction and not letting it get many Calm Minds in. You also have a huge Ludicolo weakness, as it outspeeds everything on this team, but it's rather rare. I suppose if you really needed help handling it you could switch Steelix to Registeel, which can preform basically the same job but doesn't lure in bulky Waters quite as much. It's another personal preference.

    Sorry for this bone of a rate, but I just wanted to say a few things, and will be adding more later.
  4. YTP


    Jun 13, 2008
    This is a beautiful team. It seems as though Slowking can help you with some of your special threats though I won't suggest it because this is a beautiful team. The biggest weakness I can see is Houndoom if it manages to get a Nasty Plot in but Roserade can revenge kill.

    I'm sad that I never faced it T_T.
  5. MetaNite

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    May 4, 2008
    Two new teamraters make a team together. First off let me say this is a great looking team, makes we want to play UU more (I won't).

    I don't see anything terribly wrong with it at all, but there are some minor issues. I do however think Sleep Powder and Leaf Storm is the best option on Roserade.

    I see a huge weakness with SubRoost Moltres, I don't play enough to know if it's that common though, but getting Stealth Rock up early with Steelix will be a huge help.

    Mixed Crobat (Brave Bird and Heat Wave) may give you some problems, especially if it has Taunt for Slowbro and prevents Steelix from setting up. I only see Arcanine for it. Intimidate can probably keep it at bay though. To a lesser extend, Staraptor. Giving it SOME defense EVs can help against Close Combat.

    Kudos on SubSalac Gallade, I knew it had a purpose. SubRoost Staraptor looks pretty sweet too.
  6. Wyzra


    Dec 20, 2008
    It's a well-made team in my opinion, boasting a nice balance of offensive Pokemon: a Scarf, a priority, a reliable Staraptor, and Gallade. I appreciate the way you lay out to achieve your goal of Gallade sweep: using Staraptor's semi-redundant coverage to remove counters, and the Baitlix.

    First, potential weaknesses: Mismagius weak is a problem common among UU teams due to her convenient immunities, decent speed, and potentially high damage output. But I think you have it covered with so many attackers from the physical side.

    One weakness I do see with the team is Rain Dance, or other fast special attacks (e.g., Raikou, who although seemingly handled by Steelix can pose problems if you explode too early or if he gets a head start). I see Ludicolo taking out most of your Pokemon easily, and he is conspicuously absent from the list of threats. A Rain Dance lead like Crobat also ruins that Arcanine, outspeeding and cutting Flare Blitz power turn 1.

    To combat this I would recommend replacing Steelix with a decent special wall, e.g, Clefable. If you do not like this option then I feel Slowbro can be replaced with a special wall, though I'm not sure exactly who would be appropriate (Milotic may work, no guarantees). You might consider getting someone who can p.Haze in emergencies (Drapion, Skuntank, Roar Steelix), for Crotomb etc.

    Another thing: Why max Sp D over HP on Steelix?

    EDIT: more random thoughts:
    1) I prefer the Leaf Storm Roserade.
    2) Unfortunately, two suspects are crucial members of this team. Who would you replace them with?
  7. Relictivity


    Dec 31, 2008
    Erm... change the Speed EVs on Slowbro to 0. I've had points where Slowbro's Surf does not OHKO Marowak. And all I had was a 252HP investment.

    Also, if Slowbro happens to get in free, you will want to watch out as it can OHKO one of your pokemon with either Surf or Fire Blast/Ice Beam.

    However, I think the biggest problem for this team could be Rest Talk Spiritomb. Again, assuming it gets in after a teamate dies, none of your pokemon can risk taking it's moves. Neither Gallade nor Staraptor will come in safely, meaning it's going to result to a stall battle. And your only semi-staller (meaning it can stop other stallers) is Slowbro who definately hates Spiritomb.

    I also see that you have attempted to cover up a weakness to status by putting substitue on your two sweepers. This is good, except that Gallade is only going to be a one-time setup. Staraptor should do the job, but you can't risk switching into a status move with it.

    I suppose you could put your own Rest-Talk Spiritomb on there to deal with these problems, but it looks as if your team really does not have the space for it.

    Still, an awsome team, I struggled finding anything to comment about improving, because it was so good : D. I tried not to comment about the things though that you already knew were threats, because that would not do any good.

    I'll post again if I see anything else.
  8. Erazor

    Erazor ✓ Just Doug It
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Oct 27, 2008
    This may just be a minor nitpick, but how does this fare against Sunny Day teams that use Scarf Typhlosion? Slowbro is 2HKOd in the sun by a max powered Eruption, so it can't switch in(this happened to me). You seem to rely purely on Slowbro to handle most variants, and even Slowbro doesn't really like Eruptions. And they usually carry HP Grass.

    Spike stacking looks like a major problem for this team, especially without a spinner. Gallade, as you said, simply cannot afford any residual damage.

    An intelligent Raikou user can beat your Steelix, especially if he has already seen it. Getting hit with Hidden Power Fire/Ground on the switch isn't really good for its health.

    All teams _should_ have a way of beating Clefable, I'm assuming this is where Staraptor shines, though Thunder Wave variants are bugging. Gallade works too I guess.

    I have a general question, do you reveal Gallade at all during early-mid game?

    Hope I could help, I owe both of you guys.
  9. 13blue101


    Sep 20, 2008
    I wish I knew a bit about the UU game so I could at least put an effort into this comment.

    The team, as said before, looks good. Curious to how a Sub Charge Beam Rotom is dealt with. It could come in on a Roserade HP Ground and "set up" from there. Im just not sure how much a Steelix Iron Head would do though. So anyways good job you two.

    Side note: teams are coming along. found a few minor problems though for them.
  10. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    Hehehe :D. I know this team well enough right :P. We had a couple really close matches, i dont think i lost with my second team or first, but its not the battler (obviously). Not that its a bad team either though, its really just vs my teams.

    The main reason your team has had such a hard time with my teams, is that i use an Early Game Walbreaking Fire Type on both (Blaziken and Charizard). You cant switch ANYTHING into a Fireblast Bar Arcanine, and with SR up it can only come in once.

    The other part was that you couldnt even set up Gallade agaisnt Charizard because its faster and carries Air Slash, Charizards speed and Blazikens Vacuum Wave seemed to get in your way alot as well.

    As well as i have never been hit by an Explosion from Steelix.

    Cloyster deserves more credit, as it litterally destroyed Staraptor, and Gallade with its Stab Ice Shard. Cloyster Revenge killed Gallade every time for my second team, barring Air Slashes.

    @Katherine, Flash Fire doesnt work because its designed to beat Crobat, and without Intimidate its dead meat. That lead is AWESOME as i have told you after and During our Battles. LN is starting to use it as well, but not as well for some reason (probably because i put milotic on my team).

    Also note that Clefable doesnt Lure in Bulky waters like Steelix, so it will be tough to get rid of them still.

    The few Nitpicks i have are:
    -Gyro Ball is almost ALWAYS better on Steelix. Iron Head works, i guess, but its really only worth it with Para support, which may be hard to get due to Arcanines Toxic.

    -Roserade needs a Job, it cant be a half-ass revenge killer spiker. It can either be a spiker utility (in this case i would suggest Black Sludge or Leftovers), or an awesome Revenge killer with Leaf Storm, with an OH SHIT button (Sleep Powder). Depending on what your team needs, id suggest changing the spread. Revenging with spikes is just trying to do too much, giving a pokemon a turn to set up is deadly in this metagame. So im going to agree with LR if you want to keep this Roserade Scarfed.

    -I would really suggest Life Orb on SubRaptor. Life Orb makes SO many 3HKOs into 2HKOs, for example on Registeel and Steelix, two important ones.

    Bigger Changes:

    -I would probably put a Fire Resist Berry on Steelix, to at least survive a Fire Attack and then get rid of the Fire Attackers that you cant deal with. Charizard still poses a problem though, so i may suggest Stone Edge over Iron Head, though that leaves you slightly more vulnerable to Missy....

    -Same thing as i said to another RMT. Slowbro does NOT counter Blaziken effectively, nor does it counter Charizard (As you saw). Roserade can revenge kill, but idk if you want to lose your only Defensive pokemon right off the bat, allowing for Free Fireblasts wherever. I would consider changing this to Slowking or even Milotic. Slowking still has the fighting resists and movepool, while Milotic has better defenses overall. But better counters mix Fire Types with their awesome Sdef.

    Milotic can even run the Haze set to counter Missy for you. I would recommend Surf, Recover, Haze, Filler(Ice Beam, HP Electric, Toxic etc). With enough SDef to win the Haze war.

    -If you do the previous change, and Fighting types give you trouble, then i suggest putting Venusaur over Roserade to compensate. Same Movepool and STABs, just more bulky, slower and does slightly less damage.

    To summarize:
    My thoughts were just a mess up there, so here they are in simple form.

    -Gyro Ball on Steelix
    -Scarf Roserade needs Leaf Storm, otherwise make it Black Sludge.
    -LO on Staraptor.
    -Fire Resist Berry, or Stone Edge on Steelix to remedie Mix Fires somewhat.
    -Switch out Slowbro for Milotic or Slowking. Milotic helps with Missy (Haze) and is more defensive overall, while losing the Fighting Resist.
    -Venusaur over Roserade possibly, to add some bulk while maintaining the job it does.

    I hope this helped, or even made sense.
  11. Imran

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    May 3, 2008
    Thanks for posting Wyzra, I told LR to put next to the Theorymon thing that this team also lost to your NU Stall Team >_< (LR if you are reading this please edit it in)

    Legacy Raider wrote the threat list ^_^ I actually really like this idea, Clefable isn't beaten by much that Steelix isn't beaten by, so it might really help out + if I can Toxic bulky Waters, they won't be doing anything to Clefable and I can simply stall out. I will definately give it a go!

    To take a myriad of Special attacks. First of it allow us to more convincingly beat Raikou. Secondly it helps take Migmagius HP Fightings (as long as it oesn't have too many CMs) and thirdly it means I can still explode on bulky waters from < 50% health. Steelix is really our makeshift answer to Special attackers, and the Special Defence EVs help it to do that better.

    We have a new team for a completely suspectless metagame! And all it really needs to function is to have Staraptor gone, so when Raptor goes we will be using that, as for when Gallade goes, I really have no idea! There is not really much that can replace it (although ideas would be welcome), so I might just knock up another team for that!

    I don't quite understand your reasoning here, do you mean to beat Marowak in Trick Room? I will try it out, thanks!

    Slowbro is my go to guy in this situation, also Roserade can switch in safely on one Ice Beam. Other than that I predict around it, although this is generally where Slowbro is so useful!
    It is an issue yes. Usually I switch in Arcanine / Staraptor in when I have forced it to Rest and hope for a bit of luck. It has not been that big an issue, probably because of the sheer Fire Power of this team, not only that, but Roserade switches in quite comfortably and hits it hard (only when it's a Leaf Storm variant though =( )

    I will look into it, but as you said, I am unsure where to put it =)

    Arcanine's Extremespeed is generally my answer to this as is, "get Stealth ROck up as early as possible." Slowbro does OK, if I'm not being an idiot and switching it into the 2HKO. As is usual playing against weather teams, sacrificing mons may be nessecary to deal with the most difficult threats, but generally I can get around it.
    It can afford residual damage, it is the extra each turn from Toxic that is the most annoying, as it cannot really sweep once it has the Salac boost that way. If it takes Spikes damage on the way in, so be it, If I can still get +1 +2 (which often I can) then it doesn't make a difference.

    Not unless it is nessecary to do so, usuaslly I don't bother setting Gallade up against Hail, for example, as he does well enough anyway. I don't know how LR plays thati, however.

    I have no idea lol, luckily I haven't seen one. I guess I would have to break it's sub "somehow" and then revenge with Roserade, thankfully it isn't that common.

    What is this???!!!?!

    Anyway, thankyou very much for the rates so far guys, they are all very appreciated and I will take everything on board and see what I can do with it!

    Arrrg Heysup, I'll reply to those later!​
  12. panamaxis

    panamaxis how many seconds in eternity?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Aug 30, 2008
    Nice team, so first of all, does steelix even need the pashoo berry to survive surfs with the ton of special defense your running? Also I'd just go with gyro ball > Iron head unless it does more damage to a serious threat?

    I'd personally just run HP fire on roserade, it hits the steels but you can actually damage staraptor if it switches in which is pretty huge and staraptor and gallade are definitely the biggest offensive threats in UU, hmm actually maybe shadow ball could work against mismagius? your call. Also seconding that Sleep Powder / Energy ball looks to be the superior option from my point of you, but each to his own. I recently started using sub roost staraptor > CB after i saw lonelyness going on about it, but i hated the LO recoil so I'll give sharp beak a go, thanks for the idea!

    Sorry it's a short rate, but the team doesn't have that many flaws :).
  13. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider sharpening his claws, slowly
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    May 1, 2008
    We tried Gyro Ball at first, but there were a couple of reasons that we decided to change it to Iron Head. Firstly, we wanted Steelix to outspeed other Steelix, and so wanted to use a neutral nature instead of a -Spe one. Secondly, with all the paralysis support that Slowbro is throwing around, Iron Head is almost always outdamaging Gyro Ball against these paralysed foes. Lastly, Steelix is our only defense on the team against a Sub Roost Articuno with Toxic, and Iron Head not only hits it harder, but it has many more PP and so isn't outstalled by Pressure quite so easily. Thanks for the suggestion though.

    With SR + Brave Bird recoil + Substitute hp loss, a LO Staraptor would die far too quickly, even with Roost recovering the HP. For an example, 2 LO Brave Birds would take out Spiritomb, but Staraptor would lose over half its health and be very vulnerable to the switchin from there. Plus, LO doesn't let you feign CB =P. Sharp Beak gets us the power boost we need and gets the 2HKO with SR on Spiritomb, because really, it is our Brave Bird we need to power up, not our Close Combat. Staraptor is meant to damage the things that threaten Gallade, such as Spiritomb and Slowbro, not the things Gallade can deal with itself - Registeel, Steelix. But most importantly, it doesn't give any recoil of its own, which is a major reason why we chose to use it.

    I will definitely look into using an Occa Berry, thanks. Bulky waters can usually be taken out eventually by Toxic and just pummeling, but offensive Fire types, in particular things like Typhlosion and Magmortar, are a very large threat to this team. Thanks.

    Swapping Slowbro for Milotic means that we lose Thunder Wave, which is quite a component part of this team's strategy. Nevertheless, I do see the sense in using a Haze Milotic to deal with Mismagius, and to add some special defense to the team. Replacing Roserade with Venusaur sounds like a good idea too, although I'm somewhat loathe to do so because Roserade is also a status absorber for the team with Natural Cure, and Venusaur is nowhere near as fast or powerful as Roserade is. However, if I choose to replace Slowbro with Milotic, the added bulk might be necessary to take on Fighting types. Something I'll definitely look into.

    Thanks for the insightful comments HeYsUp. Although, I'm pretty sure Imran has beaten you with the team before =P.

    HP Fire also means we can touch Crobat and Weezing, so it's something I will test again. We already have a strong EQ user in Steelix, so maybe HP Fire would be fore the best. Thanks.

    Thanks for the rates everyone, please keep them coming =).
  14. Crafty Veteran

    Crafty Veteran

    Jan 28, 2009
    It's a good team, I really cannot spot a weakness simply because you have good coverage on your pokemon and with two intimidates it really keep things in check so I applaud that.
    The "Threats" that I would really keep an eye on are

    -Rare NastyBats

    A SpecsTyphlosion, I've encountered a couple of times when I'm not prepared. I'm just going to say be aware on the damage it gives on Slowbro, Scarf versions will usually 3-4HKO it w/ Leftovers. With Specs, it has a good chance of 2HKO'ing it w/ Eruption. The "item" slapped too it could really ruin your switch ins once it carves up near half of Slowbros life it's probably Specs, so revenge killing it wouldn't be a problem.

    A Mismagius is the biggest threat to your team, like you listed is Mismagius, one oppurtunity to set up on is HP Ground from Roserade which gives it a Sub, then CM, your greatest choice of selection is to switch in on Steelix.
    Iron Head or Gyro Ball to break the sub, HP Fighting is directed to it (failing to OHKO, but a guarantee 2HKO after one CM) then switch out to Roserade and hope to OHKO with Leaf Storm or Sleep Powder the biggest threat.

    A NastyBat is probably one of those that pop out of nowhere to scare off Steelix. It really has good bulk, extremespeed does alright, Roserade resists all damage, sleep power is your only hope. Slowbro does "alright" if it manages to put down 2 NP, your in danger, especially the ones that carry roost. You might want to consider a Slowking for Slowbro to handle some special threats.

    Since I really cant suggest a chance on major EV's and movesets I just suggested some ways to handle your biggest threats. A minor suggestion is to replace Iron Head with Gyro Ball to hit Crobats harder and manage to 2HKO it depending on EV spread. HP [Fire] might be a good replacement for Roserade to fend off with Crobats other than relying on Sleep Powder. Consider a Slowking test.

    Other than that, not a whole bunch of problems, good team hope this helped.
  15. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    I guess i forgot that Gallade takes care of the Steels for you, though i think Steelix AND Registeel both survive an unboosted CC from Gallade. But i guess an unboosted Raptor CC will do enough to weaken them. Keep Sharp Beak.
    Bulky waters dont OHKO Steelix like Blaziken, Magmortar, Charizard, and Blaziken do. So no problem :D.

    I also used Sub+Paralysis on one of my teams, so i understand the importance. With your LRcanine lead though, you may have trouble getting Thunder Wave onto pokemon that you need. Haze doesnt conflict at all with Toxic, in Fact it works well as a pokemon cant Stat-up and Sweep through Toxic, it will likely die before it does anything. If you feel paralysis is needed, Slowking can still use it.

    Venusaur is just incase you lose your Fighting resist, otherwise i would definately keep Roserade.

    No problem. And thats completely possible that i have lost to this team, but i dont remember it.
  16. panamaxis

    panamaxis how many seconds in eternity?
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnusis a Past SPL and WCoP Champion

    Aug 30, 2008
    So I just played a variation of this team so I have some things to add,

    EDIT: have played this team many times.

    You definitely want an occa on steelix, nasty plot crobat although quite rare (I'm probably the only one that uses it), really does a number on this team, slowbro will absoultely hate taking a +2 life orb sludge bomb or air-slash. You pretty much have to sacrifice slowbro and once slowbro is dead your team becomes a lot more vulnerable. Maybe Milotic with haze could help with misamagius and plot-bat, although t-wave may be too good to pass up. Just wondering, does Gallade even need a jolly nature? UU is not that fast besides crobat.
    Occa Berry on Steelix.
  17. Thorns


    Feb 17, 2007
    fuck guys if I posted the same team with no pictures and maybe only two paragraphs of comments and no threat list would you mindlessly praise it?

    I'm not saying that the format is bad, just that you aspiring raters should look at the words, not the pretty, pretty purple text.

    not that this team isn't bad too - in fact it is excellent but once LO Honchkrow switches in, without (dangerously) overpredicting, something is dead. I SUPPOSE Slowbro can take anything but crit Night Slash, but fave mon Honchkrow can definitely dent this team.

    EDIT: hahahaha I can edit in RMT archive
  18. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    I see what you mean. This team is far from:
    I guess people see LR and scream yay!!! I know i do (:P).

    But as for Honchkrow, it wont be able to live long. It cant switch in on anything at all, and Slowbro can 1v1 it as it is. Most Honchkrows carry Superpower, Drill Peck, Sucker Punch and Pursuit.
  19. Thorns


    Feb 17, 2007
    LOKrow uses Heat Wave which 2HKOs Steelix. I know that it dies easily, but it will take down at least one Mon before doing so.
  20. Heysup

    Heysup I'm your rational mind.
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 28, 2008
    Which is another reason to stick with my original suggestion, Occa berry on Steelix.

    But im also pretty sure, with 252 SDef EVs + Nature, Heat Wave wont do much. Im sure rarely anyone uses Heat Wave because then they are walled by Registeel, who is more Common than Steelix. So Superpower is generally better.

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