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UU Team Study - Week 2 (team provided by reachzero)

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Psychotic, May 11, 2013.

  1. Psychotic

    Psychotic Foulest thing about time; it still ticks when you gone

    Joined:
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    UU Team Study
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]

    Welcome to the UU Team Study. The goal of this project is to help unite the community while improving the overall quality of the UU player base by studying the art of teambuilding at the highest level.

    What is this for?
    The Underused tier, especially the ladder, has become filled with cut and paste teams, many utilizing the most common pokemon, movesets, and cores. While these can be effective strategies, many members of the UU community have yet to learn how to take their teambuilding to the next level. The goal of this thread is to ignite discussion on the complexities of advanced teambuilding between experienced players and newcomers, and hopefully help transform UU into a more intelligent and active tier.

    How does it work?
    Each week (more or less) there will be a high-level team that will be displayed for the community as a whole to discuss. The aim of this discussion will be to analyze the team by identifying roles and explaining their purpose, investigating specific movesets and Pokemon choices, strong points of the team, flaws it may have and even questions concerning unusual or confusing aspects. Essentially, the team will serve as a model to learn from and an example to refer to. Once the discussion is over, the teambuilder will post explaining his decisions and answering any questions or false ideas concerning them.

    Thanks to Melee_Mewtwo for allowing me to use the basic OP.
  2. Psychotic

    Psychotic Foulest thing about time; it still ticks when you gone

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    Week 2
    Team provided by reachzero

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 HP / 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
    - Thunderbolt
    - Substitute
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Flying]

    Mew @ Leftovers
    Trait: Synchronize
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 SDef / 24 Spd
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Taunt
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roost
    - Psyshock

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 6 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Roar
    - Scald
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cursed Body
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 248 HP / 84 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Shadow Ball
    - Spikes
    - Pain Split

    Nidoqueen (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 SAtk / 88 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Focus Blast
    - Ice Beam
    - Stealth Rock

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Pursuit
    - Crunch


    Some questions to address:

    • What is the goal of the team? What is the "win condition" that this team works towards?
    • Is there a core, offensive or defensive, that the team was built around?
    • What are the strengths and weaknesses of this team? How does he play around these weaknesses?
    • What does this team do differently from other UU teams? What makes it so consistent?
    • What changes could be made to movesets or EVs to deal with certain threats more effectively?
    • How does Reach use unconventional sets to deal with things that would normally threaten his team?
    • Any other comments or questions about the team


    Week 1
    Team provided by RT.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide

    Froslass (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Cursed Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - Destiny Bond
    - Ice Beam

    Darmanitan (F) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Rock Slide
    - Superpower
    - U-turn

    Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Scald
    - Stealth Rock
    - Roar

    Cofagrigus (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 2 Spd / 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef
    - Nasty Plot
    - Trick Room
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Snorlax (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SDef / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Return
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Roost


  3. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

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    Hey this thread sounds pretty smart...I like the idea of it, too. Big learning experience for everyone involved, even if they don't necessarily contribute. Though I have to ask, what exactly is the benchmark for a "high-level" team? A team that's laddered to 1850+? And who gets to post said team each week?
  4. Trainer Au

    Trainer Au Insert custom title here

    Joined:
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    Loved this thread in ubers.

    The goal of this team is to obviously set up hazards with Froslass+Pert, while spinblocking/sweeping with Cofag. There is also Snorlax to trap anything that can safely take Darm's hits (namely Slowbro) so he can wreck havoc with the help of hazards. Then Zapdos is there to provide somewhat of a defensive backbone while still being freaking powerful with base 125 SpAtk and LO. At least that is what it looks like to me. A strength in this team is being pretty offensive while also having mons bulky enough to take hits (lax, cofag, pert, zap). A weakness I see right off the bat is a well played sharpedo late game, when everything is weakened and the opp has SR and maybe a layer of spikes. The way he would play around this is to keep Swampert healthy and even Snorlax can take a hit if it is healthy enough. I think the reason this team was successful was because it has the right amount of offense and a defensive backbone to fall back on when the going gets tough.
  5. Santuga

    Santuga

    Joined:
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    The goal of this team is to get up as many entry hazards as possible, block the potencial Rapid Spin with Cofagrigus (switch to Zapdos to threaten Blastoise out if needed) and wreck face with its 3 sweepers, Darmanitan, Snorlax, and Zapdos, which form a very good offensive core due to their offensive coverage and sheer power.

    If there was a previously thought core, I'd say Darmanitan + Zapdos. They can hit very different Pokemon and they can complement each other extremely well.

    Scarf Flygon seems to be an annoyance for this team, seeing as it doesn't have a Steel-type and the only resistance to Earthquake is Offensive Zapdos, which won't appreciate any other hit, plus it's weak to Stealth Rock and this team doesn't pack a Rapid Spinner. Sharpedo also looks threatening, but to be honest, every team is weak to Sharpedo if played correctly! However, for these threats to destroy this team, they need a lot of support because they won't single handedly 6-0 RT.'s team. The player of this team will have to keep Swampert and Snorlax at good health in order to take a hit and retaliate.

    This team is very consistent synergy wise and it covers most threats of the tier, while packing a lot of power at the same time. It's moderately easy to get switch-ins to most Pokemon in the tier with this team and then wreak havoc with the Pokemon you have in battle.

    I would not recommend any changes because if something gets replaced, new holes will open up. The weaknesses this team have are not that troublesome at first sight, so a good player should be able to work around them well enough to guarantee a win condition.

    The biggest problem I see are entry hazards which rack up very fast seeing as most members of the team don't even pack Leftovers or recovery moves. Preventing hazards should be top priority and playing aggressive with entry hazard users is very important to keep them off the field.

    This team is very well built and this program should be very interesting for the community =)
  6. Iminyourcloset

    Iminyourcloset OBJECTION! What do you mean I have a weakness now?!
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    The goal of this team is to set up Spikes + SR with Froslass + Swampert, and then proceed to basically sweep with its three offensive pokemon in Cofag/Darm/Snorlax, giving the team a TR pokemon to mess up fast teams, a basic scarf set, and a CB Snorlax to trap things to hell and back. Zapdos can be considered for sweeping, but it's mainly there to help with pivoting and taking a good hit or two.

    Cores I see in this team are: Cofag/Snorlax offensive core, they pretty much help each other out a ton if the going gets tough; And then Darm can join that core in a different way with the three different types of offense for a Darm/Cofag/Snorlax core; Zapdos + Swampert seems like a core, one specially defensive the other phyiscally; they can switch in on each other's threats.

    Strengths: solidly bulky team (bar Darmanitan/Froslass). You can't really expect to blast his team away with your scarf Hera. He has the means to take hits even on his offensive pokemon, which is extremely useful. Also, few people expect a Specially defensive Zapdos, especially one with the same set as the common offensive one.

    Weaknesses: Most of the pokemon have no reliable recovery, and there is no spinner. This means that his team can be wore down by SR and spikes/Tspikes on his side of the field. But, he can play around this by simply going in for the fast kills with OTR Cofagrigus or Scarf Darm, who don't mind the poison at first, and the former can come in a couple of times, backing them up with zapdos who is immune to spikes/Tspikes and has Roost.

    Uniqueness: Main unique things are the sets on Swampert and Zapdos. Generally, they're fairly offensive with their EVs in their atk/spatk. However, using a defensive set is not only unexpected, it can ruin the foe's game plan. If they expect a frailer zapdos, and come up against a bulky specially defensive one, they could be totally thrown off, and then you get an advantage!

    EV shenanigans: From what I know about countering certain threats via EV, (so not that much) there isn't anything significant to really have to counter/take hits from/outspeed/etc. I don't want to replace anything due to my fear of breaking the idea/strategy of the team.

    Extra Comments/Questions: I don't have anything to say about this team, it's pretty damn good.

    Extra Comments about Team Study: Never heard of it before, but I posted because this looks fun :D
  7. relaunched

    relaunched

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    I think people have covered most attributes of the team very well so far, but there's one thing I see that hasn't been mentioned. This team doesn't have any glaring weakness to a specific Pokemon, but a team that stacks Pokemon it is weakest to looks like a big problem. For example, this team doesn't resist Water, and relies on its defensive Pokemon to absorb Water hits. A team like kokoloko's Anna Molly, which packs heavy Water-type hitters in Choice Specs Slowbro and Rain Dance Kingdra, can easily overwhelm this team with powerful attacks. A team with both Rain Dance Kingdra and Rain Dance Ludicolo sounds even harder to deal with. Similarly, a smartly played defensive core can give this team troubles. Porygon2 + Rhyperior is a decent combination to face this team, though those two alone won't be enough, and you'll probably need another defensive Pokemon backing those two if you don't want to get swept. Even if you have a good 3 Pokemon defensive core, you have to play smartly to beat RT.'s team, while on the flip side, RT. will need to play especially aggressively with lots of double switches and similar tactics.
  8. FastFlygon

    FastFlygon

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    It looks to me like the biggest threat to this team is opposing Spikestackers. The Snorlax/Swampert/Cofagrius defensive core is relying on three grounded Pokemon with no reliable recovery to take hits; the team's revenge killer, Darmanitan, is also very vulnerable to hazards. As there is no spinner, once hazards are up they'll stay up, which makes the team pretty easy to wear down if it can be forced into repeated switching. In particular I see a weakness to the rare LO Galvantula - its Thunder is strong enough to 2HKO Snorlax 40% of the time after SR and one layer and OHKO Zapdos after rocks. Swampert is also OHKOd by Giga Drain after SR damage and Cofagrius takes a very large amount, so even if it is able to stop Galvantula it will be too crippled to take on something like Heracross later in the match. Of course, Darmanitan can easily revenge, as can Frolass if it is still alive and Galvantula is weakened, but both Pokemon are grounded and SR weak, and Froslass is a suicide lead, so they are very prone to being worn down/simply KOd in Froslass' case. I imagine in general the team is a little weak to any Pokemon capbable of dealing with the defensive core. Things like SD Virizion, Rain Dance Kingdra, Nasty Plot Mew with Giga Drain and perhaps even a well played DD Scrafty if key pieces are weakened. Mostly, special attackers that can beat Snorlax and Fighting-types that can beat Cofagrigus. CB Flygon may also be an issue, as it comfotably 2HKOs every Pokemon on the team is is tougher for Darmanitan to revenge kill - Zapdos can't always beat it either, as it does not carry HP Ice. Flygon is easily revenge killed by Froslass if it is still alive, but as it is a suicide lead, that may not always be the case. That said, the team is very solid, and all of these Pokemon can be revenge killed or played around without too much difficulty.

    I expect that the goal of the team is to use Darmanitan's U-turn along with the threatening presence of Zapdos to repeatedly force bulky waters to take damage from hazards, until a sweep can be achieved with scarf Flare Blitz. Even Slowbro, who does not mind hazards, is quickly weakened by repeated super-effective U-turns. With HP Grass, Zapdos is able to KO Swampert and Rhyperior, two common Darmanitan checks that it would otherwise struggle against. Gligar is less of a problem because it does not need to be weakened as heavily for a Darmanitan sweep to be achieved; additionally, it can only really damage Zapdos with Toxic. Chandelure, another possible Fire-type switchin, is trapped by Snorlax and KO'd with Pursuit. Additionally, Swampert can take it on without too much trouble if Chandelure does not carry Energy Ball. Defensive Arcanine and other similar bulky Fire-types can be beaten without too much trouble between Snorlax and Swampert.

    The defensive core of Swampert/Snorlax/Cofagrigus is the backbone of the team. Snorlax walls most special threats in UU, and Swampert can also check many of them, which helps to ease the load on the recovery-less Snorlax. Cogagrigus round out the trio by taking on the Fighting-types that threaten Snorlax and generally being very bulky on the Physical side. Additionally, the possibility of a Nasty Room sweep gives the team an extra win condition. Both Snorlax and Cofagrigus are offensively EV'd, which ensures the team is never left in a position where it does not put pressure on the opponent. This is very important to minimise the the opportunities hazard layers are given. As mentioned, the offensive core consists of Darmanitan and Zapdos. Darmanitan's revenge killing ability and Zapdos' bulk and resistances also offer the team an improved ability to handle threats, something very useful in an offensive core. Froslass' job is mostly just to die while setting up as many layers as possible; however, it is also able to use its combination of speed, Taunt and Destiny Bond to harass the enemy team if it has finished laying Spikes or if it is more useful in a harassment role. The use of a more defensive EV spread makes Froslass less vulnerable to multi-hit moves, which is handy when condsidering they would otherwise break through her Focus Sash. Cofagrigus amnd Swampert should handle common multi-hit-move-users fine between them, although Cinccino could be annoying as it is able to OHKO Swampert with Bullet Seed and is not OHKOd itself by Cofagrigus' unboosted HP Fighting. It is unlikely to be able to 2HKO Cogagrigus without some luck, but it will often 3HKO, which leaves a big dent in Cofagrigus and prevents it from achieving much the rest of the game. Having said that, Cinccino is a very rare Pokemon and RT. can easily chose not to lead with Froslass if he sees it in team preview.

    I believe the consistency of the team lies in the small list of solid counters to Darmanitan combined with its access to U-turn and the perfect offensive partner in Zapdos. Froslass' ability to almost always force multiple layers is also crucial, because it means the opposing team will be playing with multiple layers up no matter what they try. This greatly amplifies the effectiveness of Darmanitan's U-turn, allowing a sweep to be achieved more effectively. Additionally, the populatiry of sets such as Choice Band Snorlax that are reasonably easy to wear down makes Zapdos very threatening in the current metagame, because it demolishes most of its counters after a couple of hazard switchins. Zapdos is also pretty fast for UU; this improves its ability to force switches, causing yet more damage from hazards. Snorlax's Choice Banded Pursuit is also a small factor, because the ability to easily remove Chandelure, a threatening Pokemon which also happens to wall Darmanitan, is very handy on any team. Chandelures unique palette of resistances make it a pretty annoying Pokemon to deal with, but this team traps and KOs it without much trouble. Beyond that, merely the fact that pretty much every team member contributes to the goal in some way is a big advantage for the team, as it make the whole team easier to play and means the team will naturally achieve a sweep if played intuitively - this simplifies laddering and makes the team as a whole more resillient against luck, because no team member is absolutely crucial to the overall plan.

    It difficult to suggest changes for a team this good. Making Cofagrigus more defensive would somewhat help the Flygon issue, but it's still a poor answer with hazards up and Cofagrigus becomes setup bait for spikers with this change, exasperating the existing issue. Similarly, making Zapdos much more specially defensive may help deal with special attackers, but it compromises the overall team goal but limiting Zapdos' ability to remove bulky waters. In terms of more sweeping changes, replacing Darmanitan with a Pokemon less vulnerable to hazards would probably improve the teams ability to deal with various threats, but I can't think of anything that has the raw power of Darmanitan and the ability to lure bulky waters. It may be worth trying a scarfed Mienshao in this slot as it can still U-turn out of ghosts to have Snorlax trap and KO them, but I don't believe it would maintain the same level of team synergy. Overall, the few weaknesses present in the defensive core can generally be dealt with via revenge killing, and the hazard vulnerability can be mitgated through intelligently agressive play.

    EDIT: Forgot to mention, this is a really fantastic thread idea.
  9. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    Something to note, A lot of people are looking to single pokemon that are weaknesses to this team, but RT's team is well-built enough to the point that no one specific pokemon is going to singlehandedly demolish it. I actually thought initially that Choice Band Flygon would be a much more anoying pokemon to face than Scarf Flygon. CB Flygon at minimum 2HKO's everything on the team. However, RT provided several ways to play around that. Swampert, Cofagrigus, and possibly even Snorlax (not positive, but I'm pretty sure) can't be OHKO'd without a crit, so they'll force Flygon to switch back out and try again. RT also does a good job of not really letting it switch in very often, if ever. Even though it resists Darmanitan's STABs, Flygon still takes a hefty amount from FlareBlitz. Zapdos is really the only thing that lets it get in for "free" (once you've figured out it's not HP Ice), and the only way Flygon can effectively KO it is with Outrage, which just opens it up to being revenge killed. Sharpedo is the only other "weakness" I noticed, but really, when 2 of the members (swampert and snorlax) can always absorb a hit, 1 of them (zapdos) can take a hit if Stealth Rock isn't up, and Cofagrigus being able to switch in and get rid of Speed Boost, I honestly think it isn't that big of a problem.

    I like Relaunched's point, and I think the real weakness of this team is going to be an overall team matchup rather than one specific pokemon that switches in and kills stuff. Specially-based offensive teams are the biggest weakness to me, as the only real special wall is snorlax, which doesn't even use Leftovers for recovery. After that, stuff like Kingdra and are going to come in and nuke things with Hydro Pump. Howver, the Froslass lead helps this matchup considerably, I think. With Taunt, unless the opponent leads Tornadus/Sableye, Rain isn't going up for the first few turns. Snorlax also helps considerably in stalling the rain out. As soon as the rain lets up, it's basically free kills for Zapdos, unless they've got a Ludicolo somewhere. I'd personally like to know what this team does against a more all-out HO team like Kaleidoscope. I realize Venmoth is rare, but just that kind of team in general.

    Those are the only real weaknesses I see. Its strengths are pretty much all other matchups IMO. It handles Fighting-types well, it handles Electric-types well, Fire-types might rack up some damage, but I think between Snorlax, Cofag, and Swampert they're covered.
  10. Bassmaster4

    Bassmaster4

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    As a firm believer that teambuilding is the most important aspect in any tier, i'm very happy to see a thread like this up.

    Anyway, this team looks like it relies on Swampert and Froslass to get its hazards up, while using Cofagrigus to spinblock. The hazards wear the opponent's team down so Snorlax, Darmanitan, and Zapdos can sweep without too much of a problem. The biggest flaw with the team seems too be the opposing team's hazards, as there's no rapid spinner on this team. That along with the fact that two pokemon are weak to Stealth Rocks (three if you count Froslass, but she's usually a suicide), and every member bar Zapdos is susceptible to Spikes, clearly means this team's downfall is hazards. The offensive core seems to rely on Snorlax to Pursuit stuff like Slowbro and Victini, which stop Darmanitan cold, and then open up the doors for Zapdos and Darmanitan to sweep.
  11. Psychotic

    Psychotic Foulest thing about time; it still ticks when you gone

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    @CoolStoryBrobat: For the first few weeks, I will probably be asking a few good, well known players to provide me with teams, but after that, if you have peaked exceptionally high (~1950 and over) or gone very far in a tournament with a certain team, then I would definitely consider posting it. Also, having a creative team that dominates would help your chances, since this thread is about changing peoples ideas about how teambuilding has to work.
  12. Psychotic

    Psychotic Foulest thing about time; it still ticks when you gone

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    Week #2 of the Team Study is now up, with a defensive team provided by reachzero.
  13. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

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    Hmm...This team, as you said is clearly defesnive, but definitely reeks of stall, if not at least semi-stall. Clearly you're gonna want to get up hazards on this like per usual, as he's got Nidoqueen and Froslass for the job. I'm assuming the goal is to simply wear the opponent down as much as possible while keeping most of your Pokemon healthy, however unlike most straight-up stall teams, this one has a bit more of offensive presence to it.

    First thing that catches my eye is the Pain Split Froslass, something I've actually not seen yet. It would be really effective for this team as it wears down the opponent, spinblocks, AND sets hazards as opposed to getting up hazards quickly and dying off as most Froslass are usually played. He's got SubRoost Zapdos, but instead of Toxic he runs HP Flying to hit hard with STAB and break most Pokemon who would otherwise deal with Sub/Roost/Toxic Zapdos, such as Roserade and Nidoqueen. Zapdos and Suicune are probably not the main core this team is built around, but together they can form a decent Pressure-stall combo that can annoy a number of attackers, on top of the rather-decent synergy the two share. (Zapdos resists Grass, has the bulk to tank some electric moves and Roost off the damage, Suicune takes barely anything from Stone Edge/Rock Blast, and resists Ice).

    The EV Spread on Snorlax also catches my eye but I see his team really must have lacked a decent special wall, so he's put the EVs into SpDef, though none in HP. This is probably because of Snorlax's massive HP stat, and the fact that he wanted an offensive set for this team (Some players would assume specially defensive RestTalk Snorlax) to trap and kill off Ghosts, mainly Chandelure, who could otherwise severely endanger this team quickly. With a bit of hazard damage which this team is sure to get up, Chandelure switching out dies very easily to a single Pursuit. Snorlax's purpose on the team is further backed up by the fact that EVERY SINGLE POKEMON on this team can otherwise take a Fighting-type move, which Snorlax is weak to. So I can see a lot of pressure is really put on it to be the specially defensive pivot.

    RestTalk Suicune with Roar is probably going to catch players off-guard who attempt to setup on Suicune, especially when they get phazed out on top of the potential hazard damage they have to take when a new Pokemon comes in. Mew is able to cripple other threatening Pokemon to this team, such as Honchkrow, outspeeding and burning it with a will-o-wisp to prevent any potential sweeps early. It's also the team's stallbreaker as it has Taunt, and probably the saving grace against other stall teams that show up.

    Basically, this team looks incredibly annoying to face, and I can see offensive teams that usually are built around Heracross and/or Mienshao as having trouble breaking through due the amount of Fighting-type resists who in the long run, make them useless. However, even with that said, Chandelure, especially Choice Specs variants would pose the biggest threat to this team, as would things like special Rain Dance Kingdra, SubCM Raikou to an extent, LO Special Victini, and various other special sweepers. It puts a huge amount of weight on Snorlax, and the offensive set is generally worn down over time. Mew has special defense EVs as well, being somewhat of a mixed wall if it can inflict a burn, so it's probably his backup pivot, though a few of the aforementioned threats can break through it especially if Snorlax is dead.

    ...Well, least that's how I see it for the most part. I probably missed some other key details, I'll let y'all take the rest lol
  14. eaglehawk

    eaglehawk

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    What is the goal of the team? What is the "win condition" that this team works towards?
    - The goal of the team is to get hazards up (obviously) and force switches and provide some offensive pressure through Snorlax and Nidoqueen. The win condition is basically getting three layers of Spikes and Stealth Rocks and you practically have the game.

    Is there a core, offensive or defensive, that the team was built around?
    - I'm not really that well versed in cores, but I really can't see a particular core, but rather an amalgamation of defensive checks and counters to most of the sweepers/defensive threats in the current metagame e.g. Mew for Stall/Wallbreaking, Suicune for anything Physical basically and status absorbing). If there's anything resembling a core, I would have to guess Zapdos/Suicune/Snorlax. Snorlax takes on Zapdos and Raikou and a lot of other Special threats, while Zapdos takes on Grass-types for Suicune. Suicune in return tanks a lot of Physical attacks that neither Zapdos nor Snorlax likes, such as Kingdra.

    What are the strengths and weaknesses of this team? How does he play around these weaknesses?
    - Straightaway, I can only say Hazards. A good portion of this team consists of Grounded members, expecially the crucial Snorlax and Suicune, not to also mention Nidoqueen, the main damage disher here. Snorlax and Nidoqueen do not have any reliable form of recovery. Furthermore, there is no Wish support to compensate for that. In order for this team to stop hazards from accruing on its side, Mew will have to land a Taunt almost perfectly. Against cut-and-dry stuff such as Bronzong, this shouldn't be a problem, but against more offensive or faster setters, such as Roserade and Froslass, stopping SpikeStacking becomes much, much harder.

    What does this team do differently from other UU teams? What makes it so consistent?
    - I can say that what this team does differently is that it deviates away from the standard meta of (Bulky) Offense/Balance and moves toward the realm of semi-stall/full stall. What makes this team very consistent is that it can effectively check most of the threats in the tier to a point where there is no one outstanding Pokemon that can rip this team to shreds if one member falls.

    What changes could be made to movesets or EVs to deal with certain threats more effectively?
    - The only thing I can really suggest is Taunt over Shadow Ball for Froslass. Froslass' main priority is to set up three layers of Spikes effectively. If it gets Taunted in the process, it compromises the team's win condition. Taunt does two things for this team: stop incoming Taunts from shutting down your SpikeStacking and shut down other SpikeStackers/Rockers. Considering her Speed EVs as well as her Timid nature, she can stop most SpikeStackers and hazard setters in the tier, which is very important weakness covered as stated earlier. Furthermore, Shadow Ball is really a waste of a moveslot. The only thing that it could possibly be useful for is against Ghosts and Psychics, both of which are all covered by Big Boy Snorlax.

    How does Reach use unconventional sets to deal with things that would normally threaten his team?
    - He uses a Suicune to deal with most of the Physical threats in UU. Simply put, the tier is too chock full of diverse offensive threats to play a defensive team solely upon resistances, so opting for something FAT to tank hits through sheer bulk is a very smart choice on his part.

    Any other comments or questions about the team
    - Looking forward to using this team during the Eightfold Paths tournament.
  15. reachzero

    reachzero the pastor of disaster
    is a Super Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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  16. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
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    So after looking at and thinking about this team for awhile, I really like it. It's certainly a defensive team, but it's not quite a full on stall team. Immediately you think of set-up sweepers as a problem for a stall team, and this team is no different, but they actually aren't as huge a deal as they seem at first, because all the members either have good offense or some way to stop set-up. I'll answer the questions now.

    What is the goal of the team? What is the "win condition" that this team works towards?

    This team is very adaptable with regard to win conditions, but in general, the way this team wins is to get up hazards, keep hazards up effectively using Froslass, and wear the opponent down with switches either from phazing or threatening opponents out, and medium-power attacks.

    Is there a core, offensive or defensive, that the team was built around?

    I don't see a tangible core, it looks like he just tried to cover all the threats in UU well, and probably did this by first coming up with a good framework and then tweaking the team over time. If you know you want to build a defensive team, there's a lot that you need, just to name some criteria:

    -A solid Chandelure check (probably Snorlax, maybe Porygon2 but Specs Flame Body is dangerous)
    -A Ground-type
    -Something that doesn't get its ass handed to it by Togekiss.
    -2-3 Fighting resists.
    -Entry Hazard Support
    -A phazer

    So you just go from your list of what you need and put together the puzzle. In a defensive team, the whole team is the "core".

    What are the strengths and weaknesses of this team? How does he play around these weaknesses?


    First of all, this team is pretty weak to Spikes-stacking. Most of the Pokemon on this team are weakened by Spikes. Fortunately, Qwilfish and Roserade have a hard time setting Spikes up against many of reachzero's team members. On the other hand, Suicide Froslass seems like a nightmare for this team, easily setting up two layers of Spikes or setting up one layer and getting a kill with Destiny Bond. I'll look at some other strengths and weaknesses by team matchup. First of all, one of the redeeming aspects of this team is that it is a defensive team that does well against opposing full stall teams. The team is very capable of keeping Spikes and Stealth Rock up, with an excellent spinblocker in bulky Froslass, which just sets Spikes right back up even against a spinner with Foresight. Phazing Suicune then does work on these teams. Also, the team does decently against some defensive Spikers. This team seems to do OK against balanced teams as well, because they often won't have enough offense to break through reachzero's walls. Offensive teams are definitely the hardest matchup for this team, and this matchup depends mainly upon what the opposing team uses. There are quite a few offensive powerhouses that can threaten the whole team, Virizion and Escavalier to name a couple. If the offensive team packs enough problem Pokemon, they have a very favorable matchup, especially if these Pokemon are paired with Spikes stacking. A rain team could also be a problem (seriously guys these are really threatening in this metagame).

    What does this team do differently from other UU teams? What makes it so consistent?

    The team doesn't let Pokemon set up and can't be easily swept by anything. It checks a wide number of things, and not too thinly either.

    What changes could be made to movesets or EVs to deal with certain threats more effectively?


    First of all, you could make big changes to this team to try and get Wish support or hazard support in there somewhere, but it ends up making the team too weak to other threats. For example you could use Alomomola over Suicune but then you don't have a phazer, and so on. In terms of small changes, it could be worthwhile to change a move on Snorlax. You won't be using Crunch too much, so I'd like to replace that with Curse. You shouldn't use Curse much either if you do decide to put it on Snorlax, but it can be useful to have for the occasional sweep. It also helps to break down Fighting/Special cores as, with a Curse, Snorlax can take some Fighting attacks and KO back with Body Slam. The other mon I might change is Froslass. Spikes and Pain Split seem essential on Froslass, but I can see Taunt going over Ice Beam or Shadow Ball and possibly running max speed. The main reason you would do this is for other Froslass. You do already have a phazer and a taunter though, and that's probably the main place where it is applicable. Even against Froslass, this doesn't help that much, while sacrificing considerably in other areas, so this EV spread is probably fine.

    How does Reach use unconventional sets to deal with things that would normally threaten his team?

    The team looks conventional to me.

    Any other comments or questions about the team?

    Cool team! Cool project!
  17. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    The win condition is pretty obvious, and has already been touched upon by others, so I won't go into too much detail there. Just kind of set up spikes and smartly keep them on the field.

    As for the core, I'm going to be going off of what Reach said in the last smogcast. When building stall, you want to try and get your "big 3" resists (resistances to Electric, Fighting, and Fire) as well as some hazards in your core. From that I'm going to /guess/ that the core the team was built off of was probably Nidoqueen, Zapdos, and Suicune, as the 3 of them resist the big 3 types quite handily, and Nidoqueen sets up hazards. The 3 work exceptionally well off of each other too. The Pressure duo of Zapdos and Suicune is really annoying, especially since within those 3 pokemon, the moves that Suicune and Zapdos will switch into often have low PP to begin with. (ie: Seed Flare, Close Combat, Earthquake, Fire Blast). This is just a guess by me though, as others have pointed out already that the entire team has backup checks and counters and more than one "core" can be used depending on the game. For example, if I see Mienshao or Machamp instead of Heracross or Scrafty, I would probably rely more on Mew instead of Zapdos.

    The strength of this team I think is the pressure it provides. Anything weak enough to be considered "setup bait" has a way to get around setup. Suicune has roar, Mew has Taunt. Anything else has not just a good amount of bulk or support, but also packs some power. Nidoqueen and Zapdos especially, due to their Coverage and annoyance, respectively, are going to force a lot of switches without just phazing. This is going to make residual damage add up extremely quickly on the opposing side of the field.

    What does this team do different than other UU teams? ...Is "stall" an acceptable answer? x_x I can't come up with any changes for this team. It's crafted to near perfection, and I think every one of this team's members are too valuable to just dump off for someone else.

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