I ninja'd you :]
Also CSB I was js for next time, but I feel bad if you change anyone so keep them
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UU Victim of the Week! (Week Twenty-Seven: Contrary Serperior)
- Thread starter CoolStoryBrobat
- Start date
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Also CSB I was js for next time, but I feel bad if you change anyone so keep them
Nominating AV Entei as a Check
Entei @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 80 HP, 252 Atk, 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Sacred Fire
-Stone Edge
-Extremespeed
-Flare Blitz/Bulldoze
AV Entei is a shaky, but usable check to Victini as none of Victini's attacks will guaranteed 2hko Entei while Entei can smack Tini back with either a strong Stone Edge or a Bulldoze to slow Tini to a level in which Entei can effectively outspeed Victini. Speed is enough to outspeed neutral Luke.
Overall, it's not as good as its Choice Band set, but it definitely has decent enough bulk to make use of an Assault Vest in order to better tank stronger Special hits while spreading burns decently with Sacred Fire.
Calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Entei: 182-214 (46.5 - 54.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Entei: 177-208 (45.2 - 53.1%)
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 109-129 (27.8 - 32.9%)
252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 82-97 (24 - 28.4%)
252+ Atk Entei Bulldoze vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 134-158 (39.2 - 46.3%)
252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 220-260 (64.5 - 76.2%)
252+ Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 88-104 (25.8 - 30.4%)
If Victini is at -1
252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%)
252+ Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%)
Entei @ Assault Vest
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 80 HP, 252 Atk, 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Sacred Fire
-Stone Edge
-Extremespeed
-Flare Blitz/Bulldoze
AV Entei is a shaky, but usable check to Victini as none of Victini's attacks will guaranteed 2hko Entei while Entei can smack Tini back with either a strong Stone Edge or a Bulldoze to slow Tini to a level in which Entei can effectively outspeed Victini. Speed is enough to outspeed neutral Luke.
Overall, it's not as good as its Choice Band set, but it definitely has decent enough bulk to make use of an Assault Vest in order to better tank stronger Special hits while spreading burns decently with Sacred Fire.
Calcs
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Entei: 182-214 (46.5 - 54.7%)
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Entei: 177-208 (45.2 - 53.1%)
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 80 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Entei: 109-129 (27.8 - 32.9%)
252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 82-97 (24 - 28.4%)
252+ Atk Entei Bulldoze vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 134-158 (39.2 - 46.3%)
252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 220-260 (64.5 - 76.2%)
252+ Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 88-104 (25.8 - 30.4%)
If Victini is at -1
252+ Atk Entei Stone Edge vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%)
252+ Atk Entei Extreme Speed vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 132-156 (38.7 - 45.7%)
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Specs Noivern as a check
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Spa/4 SpD/252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Air Slash
-Flamethrower
-U-turn/Boomburst
So you need victini to have switched into rocks which is why this is only a check, not a counter, but otherwise you live any hit victini can dole out and ohko with draco meteor, or predict the switch and u-turn to grab momentum. The rest of the moves are standard coverage and stabs for noivern, and while frisk is nice, infiltrator is probably better for the specs set just so you can fuck sub users and HO dualscreen teams (if those even exist in this meta).
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 252 Spa/4 SpD/252 Spe
Timid/Modest Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Air Slash
-Flamethrower
-U-turn/Boomburst
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 191-226 (61.4 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 179-213 (57.5 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 318-375 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 289-342 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 261-307 (76.5 - 90%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 286-337 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Noivern: 179-213 (57.5 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 318-375 (93.2 - 109.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 289-342 (84.7 - 100.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 261-307 (76.5 - 90%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Noivern Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 286-337 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
So you need victini to have switched into rocks which is why this is only a check, not a counter, but otherwise you live any hit victini can dole out and ohko with draco meteor, or predict the switch and u-turn to grab momentum. The rest of the moves are standard coverage and stabs for noivern, and while frisk is nice, infiltrator is probably better for the specs set just so you can fuck sub users and HO dualscreen teams (if those even exist in this meta).
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Arcanine as a counter
Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Morning Sun
- Crunch
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
44 Speed outspeed Victini at -1. 248 HP is rocks number. Rest dumped into SpD to take Psychic better. With an Adamant nature Arcanine can 2HKO Victini (assuming it didn't V-create) after 1 LO recoil.
Morning Sun heals, Crunch for 2HKO, Flare Blitz because STAB, and Will-o-Wisp to spread burns.
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Arcanine: 121-142 (31.5 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 127-151 (33 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 123-146 (32 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0+ Atk Arcanine Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 138-164 (40.4 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Arcanine @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 216 SpD / 44 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Morning Sun
- Crunch
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp
44 Speed outspeed Victini at -1. 248 HP is rocks number. Rest dumped into SpD to take Psychic better. With an Adamant nature Arcanine can 2HKO Victini (assuming it didn't V-create) after 1 LO recoil.
Morning Sun heals, Crunch for 2HKO, Flare Blitz because STAB, and Will-o-Wisp to spread burns.
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 252 HP / 216 SpD Arcanine: 121-142 (31.5 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 127-151 (33 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 123-146 (32 - 38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0+ Atk Arcanine Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 138-164 (40.4 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Behold, cool guy Dugtrio as a check. Unfortunately he didn't bring his shades so try not to take V-Creates
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace / Memento
Aerial Ace is based move of my own choice that KOs scurry Bandcross (I'm pretty sure PK endorses it)
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 360-428 (119.2 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
But back to Victini
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 169-200 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 151-179 (71.2 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 101-120 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 356-420 (104.3 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 190-224 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Arena Trap means that if you don't take a V-Create on the switch then this thing is ded ded ded.
Based Trap Lord also kills a lot of other frailer threats because they can't switch out.
Dugtrio @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Aerial Ace / Memento
Aerial Ace is based move of my own choice that KOs scurry Bandcross (I'm pretty sure PK endorses it)
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Aerial Ace vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 360-428 (119.2 - 141.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
But back to Victini
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 169-200 (79.7 - 94.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 151-179 (71.2 - 84.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dugtrio: 101-120 (47.6 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 356-420 (104.3 - 123.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Dugtrio Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 190-224 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Arena Trap means that if you don't take a V-Create on the switch then this thing is ded ded ded.
Based Trap Lord also kills a lot of other frailer threats because they can't switch out.
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Hydreigon as a check.
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Whatever tf you want
Hydra works really well as a Mixtini check because no 2 move combination kills it unless your running Dazzling Gleam (Obv lol check for a reason). Basically if Victini GG-creates you force it out thanks to the lowered speed and can Roost off the damage. If it goes for Psychic easy kill, Same with Grass Knot and Bolt Strike. Calcs will show no move combo KOes Hydra unless they have Dazzling Gleam.
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 330-393 (96.1% - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
This Calc assumes Hasty so so if Naive it's an OHKO. Most will be Naive to take Priority hits like Entei's and Arcanine's E Speed better. Also Victini is dead with 1 round of LO recoil assuming min damage.
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-Create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 174-205 (53.5% - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Again worst case scenario, E Belt does 41.2 - 48.6%. Outspeed after speed drop, OHKO for sure at -1 SpD or Roost health up.
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 84-99 (25.8% - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
So worst case scenario max damage on both Bolt Strike than V Create does 93.4%, but this means you can Roost while his speed drops, living with ~47% after the Dark Pulse KOes. Grass Knot does 15.6 - 18.4%, not a problem.
Hydreigon @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Naive Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Draco Meteor
- Roost
- Whatever tf you want
Hydra works really well as a Mixtini check because no 2 move combination kills it unless your running Dazzling Gleam (Obv lol check for a reason). Basically if Victini GG-creates you force it out thanks to the lowered speed and can Roost off the damage. If it goes for Psychic easy kill, Same with Grass Knot and Bolt Strike. Calcs will show no move combo KOes Hydra unless they have Dazzling Gleam.
252 SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 330-393 (96.1% - 115.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
This Calc assumes Hasty so so if Naive it's an OHKO. Most will be Naive to take Priority hits like Entei's and Arcanine's E Speed better. Also Victini is dead with 1 round of LO recoil assuming min damage.
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-Create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 174-205 (53.5% - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Again worst case scenario, E Belt does 41.2 - 48.6%. Outspeed after speed drop, OHKO for sure at -1 SpD or Roost health up.
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 84-99 (25.8% - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
So worst case scenario max damage on both Bolt Strike than V Create does 93.4%, but this means you can Roost while his speed drops, living with ~47% after the Dark Pulse KOes. Grass Knot does 15.6 - 18.4%, not a problem.
Took a while but I finally found something to counter Victini and that my frens is Snorlax
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Crunch
- Body Slam
Huge HP, Thick Fat, Huge Spdef. Basically the three things you need to be able to take on Victini. You can run whatever moves, mono curse Rest Talk or Earthquake or whatever, it's pretty irrelevant, all that matters is you use Max Hp Max Def and you're basically never going to be beaten by a Victini. V-Create is still Victini's strongest move and hits for about 30% which from what I have seen with everyone elses Calcs is the only Pokemon that can boast taking V-Create that well and ALL of it's additional coverage better than that original V-Create hit. So yeah GG for another week :*
This thing has very limited counters tho, jesus christ.
Snorlax @ Leftovers
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Crunch
- Body Slam
Huge HP, Thick Fat, Huge Spdef. Basically the three things you need to be able to take on Victini. You can run whatever moves, mono curse Rest Talk or Earthquake or whatever, it's pretty irrelevant, all that matters is you use Max Hp Max Def and you're basically never going to be beaten by a Victini. V-Create is still Victini's strongest move and hits for about 30% which from what I have seen with everyone elses Calcs is the only Pokemon that can boast taking V-Create that well and ALL of it's additional coverage better than that original V-Create hit. So yeah GG for another week :*
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Snorlax: 149-177 (28.4 - 33.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 146-172 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- 80.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 104-123 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 117-138 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Snorlax Crunch vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Victini: 210-248 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Victini: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 146-172 (27.9 - 32.8%) -- 80.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 104-123 (19.8 - 23.5%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Snorlax: 117-138 (22.3 - 26.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Snorlax Crunch vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Victini: 210-248 (61.5 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Snorlax Body Slam vs. -1 0 HP / 0- Def Victini: 168-198 (49.2 - 58%) -- 96.9% chance to 2HKO
This thing has very limited counters tho, jesus christ.
Krookodile @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
Krookodile is a really good check to Victini. It can come in on any attack other than V-Create once (and can actually switch into Life Orb V-Create with Intimidate, although Scarf Intimidate is kind of shit), outspeed, and threaten to KO with Earthquake or trap it with Pursuit. You don't want to risk switching into V-Create, but that's why it's a check, not a counter. It's also just a general decent scarfer. It revenges SD Lucario at full health, can sweep late-game, revenges NP Infernape without Vacuum Wave, and is a solid Pokemon. I prefer Adamant because there's really no relevant set between Adamant and Jolly Scarf Krookodile, but Jolly is the more traditional choice. You can run Superpower over Stone Edge if you want to hurt Blissey a bit more, but Stone Edge is pretty valuable against Aerodactyl or Crobat.
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 255-302 (76.8 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (!)
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 203-239 (61.1 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 203-239 (61.1 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 336-396 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (obviously guaranteed after a round of LO, and pretty likely otherwise)
252+ Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 270-318 (79.1 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (on the switch, stops it from switching into SR again)
252+ Atk Krookodile Pursuit vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 402-474 (117.8 - 139%) -- guaranteed OHKO (on the switch after V-Create)
If you want to play it safe, you can always Earthquake, if you feel like predicting and you want Victini gone for sure, Pursuit is solid.
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
Request: Can we get rid of the rule "we must assume SR is in on for our counter"? There are so many good spinners (well at least Megatoise) and of course nearly every team can afford to run Defog or Magic Bouncer or Spinner on their team somewhere, it is pretty safe to say if you use multiple SR weak Pokemon you can more often than not get rid of SR/not allow SR to be set up. Not to mention Victini itself is weak to SR so yeah...are we assuming Victini is coming in at 75%?!
Reserving M-Aero as a check.
As a note on Snorlax: 144 HP / 188 Def / 176(?) Careful Nature lets you take 2 V-Creates from Bandtini after SR while also maximizing special bulk if you wanna run Curselax :]
You can't guarantee rocks are/aren't up during a match in every situation, yes. But the idea is that the mons suggested are able to stand up to it in a worst case scenario. Stealth Rock is a game-changing move, and the fact it needs to be considered to determine if something is a check or counter to something is pretty heavy to weigh. I mean most offensive calcs also show the Victim Pokemon against whatever check/counter is listed after taking Stealth Rock damage, so it's not like it can't be applied both ways either. Man at the rate you complain about stuff we might as well change this site to Digimon lol
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
You're rude af. Please hang yourself. Give me one legit time you see me complain about anything.
Anyways worst case scenario would not include your counter at being 100 anyways...
Because there is not much left, I'll nominate Houndoom as a check.
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Grass]
What makes Houndoom unique is it is immune to two of Victini's possible attacks, meaning it has an easy time coming in. While Dark Pulse just barely misses the 2hko it is an almost garenteed OHKO if Victini has any prior damage. Houndoom is immune to V-create and Psychic and takes minimal damage from Dazzling Gleam and Grass Knot. Houndoom carries the same problems as ,many of the other checks where it can not switch in to a Bolt Strike as, in its base form, it is OHKOed after rocks. Having a speed advantage over Victini never hurts either
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 130-153 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO
0+ SpA Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Houndoom: 69-82 (23.6 - 28%) -- 89.7% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 276-326 (80.9 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Houndoom @ Houndoominite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Grass]
What makes Houndoom unique is it is immune to two of Victini's possible attacks, meaning it has an easy time coming in. While Dark Pulse just barely misses the 2hko it is an almost garenteed OHKO if Victini has any prior damage. Houndoom is immune to V-create and Psychic and takes minimal damage from Dazzling Gleam and Grass Knot. Houndoom carries the same problems as ,many of the other checks where it can not switch in to a Bolt Strike as, in its base form, it is OHKOed after rocks. Having a speed advantage over Victini never hurts either
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 134-158 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Victini Bolt Strike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Houndoom: 130-153 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 18.4% chance to 2HKO
0+ SpA Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Houndoom: 69-82 (23.6 - 28%) -- 89.7% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Mega Houndoom Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 276-326 (80.9 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
You think someone is rude, so the immediate response is to suggest that they off themselves? it's no wonder you're on this site 24/7
1 question: if we are using Megas here should we calc whether it was mega'd already when it was sent to counter/check said thing? Cuz if we are doing worst case scenario with rocks here it's seem weird not to do this as well...
Since it's still a theory thing and you'd be switching in the mon to take a hit, you should assume it's Mega evolved before bringing in. Like you wouldn't toss a regular Ampharos in on a Roserade's predicted Giga Drain, since before mega evolving it lacks the Grass resistance. So assuming you're switching it in it's capable of taking on the thing it's checking.
Assault Vest Tyrantrum is a check.
Tyrantrum @ Assault Vest
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / elemental fang
With a 4x resistance to V-create and Assault Vest to boost its special bulk, this beast can take almost anything Mixtini has to offer. Victini's best shot against Tyrantrum is the rare Dazzling Gleam, which can 2HKO only if Stealth Rock is up.
Tyrantrum @ Assault Vest
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / elemental fang
With a 4x resistance to V-create and Assault Vest to boost its special bulk, this beast can take almost anything Mixtini has to offer. Victini's best shot against Tyrantrum is the rare Dazzling Gleam, which can 2HKO only if Stealth Rock is up.
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 68-81 (18.5 - 22%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 66-78 (17.9 - 21.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyrantrum: 114-135 (31 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyrantrum: 129-152 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyrantrum: 153-182 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tyrantrum Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 342-404 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 274-324 (80.3 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 66-78 (17.9 - 21.2%) -- guaranteed 5HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyrantrum: 114-135 (31 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyrantrum: 129-152 (35.1 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Tyrantrum: 153-182 (41.6 - 49.5%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tyrantrum Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 342-404 (100.2 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 274-324 (80.3 - 95%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
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I believe the term is sarcasm
hang yourself
Kudos to you Calloflochie, Snorlax really is one of the only real counters to this thing. This is the best I could do, and it's not the best counter but it works.
Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Counter
A pretty good bulky pivot in general thanks to the physically defensive EV investment. Can switch into anything Victini throws at it, avoid the 2HKO, and Rest off the damage:
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 143-169 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Goodra: 90-107 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 6.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Goodra: 107-127 (27.8 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
and:
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 146-172 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Again, it's not super-solid, but it can comfortably come in on most hits. I would suggest having Swampert or Quagsire in tow: they'll attract Grass Knots, which not only give you a free switch in, but also give you the +1 Attack to do more damage.
Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Earthquake
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
Counter
A pretty good bulky pivot in general thanks to the physically defensive EV investment. Can switch into anything Victini throws at it, avoid the 2HKO, and Rest off the damage:
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Goodra: 143-169 (37.2 - 44%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Goodra: 90-107 (23.4 - 27.8%) -- 6.5% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Goodra: 107-127 (27.8 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
and:
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 146-172 (42.8 - 50.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Again, it's not super-solid, but it can comfortably come in on most hits. I would suggest having Swampert or Quagsire in tow: they'll attract Grass Knots, which not only give you a free switch in, but also give you the +1 Attack to do more damage.
8-BIT Luster
Completely Unviable
Reserving Mega Ampharos
8-BIT Luster
Completely Unviable
Mega-Ampharos is a check.
Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 40 SpA / 156 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
I EV'd this thing to do the least amount of damage to Victini while still managing the guaranteed 2HKO on Naive Victini (which is the preferred nature to run on the thing.) Even if Victini is hasty, switching it in on the V-Create sill lets it 2HKO after a SDef drop. It always avoids the 2HKO from V-Create unless rocks are up, and the EVs (coincidentally the same thing Support Arceus use up in ubers to outspeed Palkia) allow it to outspeed Victini at -2 Speed. Even if it decided to switch to Dazzling Gleam (assuming Victini even carries it,) Thunderbolt has roughly a 96% chance to OHKO after 2 rounds of LO recoil. Mega Ampharos tanks Victini's Bolt Strike and Grass Knot incredibly well, 4x resisting both. Psychic has a 44% chance to 3HKO but that's why Amphy is a check. As Flygoner818 said about Goodra, it's a good idea to have Swampert or Quaggy or Rhyperior with you, so you can come in on the Grass Knot and just clean house.
Calcs:
EDIT:Changed the EV spread as per hilarious' suggestion. Currently unable to edit the calcs as I'm ony.phone. will do later today if they prove to make a relevant difference.
Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 40 SpA / 156 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
I EV'd this thing to do the least amount of damage to Victini while still managing the guaranteed 2HKO on Naive Victini (which is the preferred nature to run on the thing.) Even if Victini is hasty, switching it in on the V-Create sill lets it 2HKO after a SDef drop. It always avoids the 2HKO from V-Create unless rocks are up, and the EVs (coincidentally the same thing Support Arceus use up in ubers to outspeed Palkia) allow it to outspeed Victini at -2 Speed. Even if it decided to switch to Dazzling Gleam (assuming Victini even carries it,) Thunderbolt has roughly a 96% chance to OHKO after 2 rounds of LO recoil. Mega Ampharos tanks Victini's Bolt Strike and Grass Knot incredibly well, 4x resisting both. Psychic has a 44% chance to 3HKO but that's why Amphy is a check. As Flygoner818 said about Goodra, it's a good idea to have Swampert or Quaggy or Rhyperior with you, so you can come in on the Grass Knot and just clean house.
Calcs:
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Mega Ampharos: 136-160 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Mega Ampharos: 32-38 (8.3 - 9.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 140-166 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 117-138 (30.5 - 36%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 35-42 (9.1 - 10.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
40 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 172-204 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
40 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 232-274 (68 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO just to illustrate that M-amphy still 2HKO's after V-Create
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Mega Ampharos: 32-38 (8.3 - 9.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 140-166 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 117-138 (30.5 - 36%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 35-42 (9.1 - 10.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
40 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 172-204 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
40 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 232-274 (68 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO just to illustrate that M-amphy still 2HKO's after V-Create
EDIT:Changed the EV spread as per hilarious' suggestion. Currently unable to edit the calcs as I'm ony.phone. will do later today if they prove to make a relevant difference.
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pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
Mega-Ampharos is a check.
Ampharos-Mega @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 124 Def / 40 SpA / 96 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Focus Blast
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Dragon Pulse
I EV'd this thing to do the least amount of damage to Victini while still managing the guaranteed 2HKO on Naive Victini (which is the preferred nature to run on the thing.) Even if Victini is hasty, switching it in on the V-Create sill lets it 2HKO after a SDef drop. It always avoids the 2HKO from V-Create unless rocks are up, and the EVs (coincidentally the same thing Support Arceus use up in ubers to outspeed Palkia) allow it to outspeed Victini at -2 Speed. Even if it decided to switch to Dazzling Gleam (assuming Victini even carries it,) Thunderbolt has roughly a 96% chance to OHKO after 2 rounds of LO recoil. Mega Ampharos tanks Victini's Bolt Strike and Grass Knot incredibly well, 4x resisting both. Psychic has a 44% chance to 3HKO but that's why Amphy is a check. As Flygoner818 said about Goodra, it's a good idea to have Swampert or Quaggy or Rhyperior with you, so you can come in on the Grass Knot and just clean house.
Calcs:
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Mega Ampharos: 136-160 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 124 Def Mega Ampharos: 32-38 (8.3 - 9.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Dazzling Gleam vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 140-166 (36.5 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Psychic vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 117-138 (30.5 - 36%) -- 44.9% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 35-42 (9.1 - 10.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
40 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 172-204 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
40 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 232-274 (68 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO just to illustrate that M-amphy still 2HKO's after V-Create
Natures in Pokemon give a 10% boost while EVs give a single extra point for every 4 invested EVs (at level 100 at least this is how it works I believe). So if you have 300 in one stat and 200 in another and you want to invest in both of them you should really be giving the 10% boost to the 300 stat because it gives you more points over all while dividing up the EVs as how you see fit.
This is relevant to your Ampharos set in a rather strange way. Mega Ampharos has such a weird base stat distribution compared to say Mew with a gigantic SpA and tiny speed to go along compared to 100 all around. Normally Modest would be the best Nature (unless you want to absolutely max a defense in which case you would of course need a corresponding nature boost for that defense) but your spread is a little different because it wants some speed. Surprisingly the best nature for your set is Bold actually because your set doesn't focus on the power (whether that is good or not is besides the point) very much so Modest is actually overkill but your base defense is so much higher than your base speed.
Ultimately what I mean is this: assuming perfect IVs your spread of Timid 248 HP 124 Def 40 Spa 96 Spe yields stats of 383/203/277/376/256/165
The spread I am telling you is better is, assuming perfect IVs: Bold 248 HP 24 Def 40 Spa 156 Spe which yields 383/203/277/376/256/165.
Exactly the same points overall right? But the difference is the Bold spread doesn't use up all the EVs! If you add it all up you still have 40 spare to put in wherever you like making Ampharos almost always slightly better (almost because if you say put the extra 40 in Spa you might take more from a random Mirror Coat. But this is so freakishly uncommon it is better not to even worry about it).
If you truly want to be objectively better (or as close to objective as I think you can get, remember the Mirror Coat scenario) you can, out of those 40 extra EVs, put 8 in Speed and 16 in Defense. This still gives you an extra 16 EVs and with those extra EVs it lets your pre Mega Evolved Mega Ampharos have the same base stats for both sets (not including the extra 16 EVs yet).
- Status