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Valar Morghulis (All Men Must Die)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by forestflamerunner, Aug 4, 2012.

  1. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked

    Apr 15, 2010

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    B2W2 brought with it a bunch of interesting additions to the metagame, including new Pokémon like the Therians and Keldeo, new abilities for things like Breloom, Ditto, and Sandslash, and some interesting new Move Tutor moves like Roost for Poison Heal Gliscor and Kyurem and Stealth Rock for a dozen new threats. The metagame evolves quickly as players attempt to find ways to handle the newly introduced threats, demonstrated by the rapid rise of Amoonguss and Mamoswine and the equally noticeable decline of Landorus-I and Rotom-W, who found themselves less needed In this new metagame. Personally, I love these points in a metagame’s development; a gamebreaking set can be discovered at any minute and new strategies evolve and devolve at remarkable rates. As we all know, the first month of B2W2 was dominated by weather thanks to rain’s new toys and the subsequent rise of other weathers to handle its familiar denominations. Now, I personally despise using weather teams, mainly because I don’t know the first thing about winning a weather war. Instead, I went ahead and made a weatherless team like I normally do, and after about a week of tweaking and testing, I made a team that worked pretty well. The team peaked around 74 on PS with a rating of 1848 before I went on vacation for a couple of weeks. When I came back, I found that the ladder just got a major update or something and my rating has plummeted to about 1650 or so. I don’t really feel like grinding to get the team back into the top 100 (and it seems I have also lost my touch, going 0-5 in my last few games), so I have decided to post my team here. If you have any suggestions please drop a rate. If you like the team, feel free to take it. And if you love the team, Luvdisc.

    The Team is named Valar Morghulis, which is a phrase from the epic book series A Song of Ice and Fire and the equally epic TV show A Game of Thrones. Valar Morghulis means all men must die, and to that effect all of my Pokémon are either genderless or female because my mons survive against all odds. All of the Pokémon on this team are named after the incredibly gorgeous women in A Game of Thrones, with the addition of Arya Stark because she’s a badass. If you haven't gotten around to watching Game of Thrones,I must strongly urge you to spend the twenty hours of your life catching up with the rest of the world. Its life changing and I promise you won’t regret it. There's some X rated material though, so just a heads up.

    Show Hide
    Like I previously mentioned, I didn’t want to make a weather team, so stuff like Politoed and the Tornadus-T were off the table. I still wanted to test out some of the new toys B/W brought with it though, so I decided to use a DD Haxorus with Aqua Tail to start me off. To complement Haxorus, I used Alakazam which could break through just about anything that Haxorus couldn’t and also is a surprisingly good wallbreaker with life orb in hand. Finally I added Thundurus to help me deal with the rain teams that plagued the metagame while also letting me test out on of the new threats B2W2 introduced.


    Now that I had my offensive core set, I worked on handling the common threats in the metagame. With the introduction of the Therians, the metagame just got even faster. Tornadus-T in particular was a problem thanks to its trolltacular 121 speed. I ultimately decided to use LO Mamoswine and Specially Defensive Jirachi to handle the new therians. This left me one last teamslot which I gave to scizor to give me further insurance against an expected rise in Drag+Mag teams, which I thought would be everywhere thanks to the release of DD Moxiemence.

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    The team worked decently in the rain infested metagame. The expected surge in Drag+Mag teams never came, but scizor still was very effective at dealing with the slowbros of the world and gave me extra insurance against the therians. However, once other weathers started to creep up to challenge rain, the team began to struggle. Sun in particular proved to be a nightmare because my team was made up of 4 glass cannons+Jirachi+scizor, which meant nothing could handle a +1 Volcarona. Venasaur was also proving problematic with its blistering speed and sleep powder. To fix this, I swapped out Thudurus-T for Scarf Terrakion, which is one of the best answers to Volcarona and does a pretty good job of checking sun teams on the whole.

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    The problem with Terrakion was two-fold. On one hand, Scarf Terrakion made me incredibly vulnerable to Scizor since everything on the team was seriously threatened by the poke in one way or another. Secondly, It made me weaker to rain; yes it could handle the therians like a boss, but my team was incredibly vulnerable to Hydro Pump spamming, and Terrakion just made me more vulnerable to the strategy. I tried to remedy this problem by using things like Ferrothorn and Jellicent, but ultimately I realized that this teams problems couldn’t be solved with just one Pokémon. So I scrapped Terrakion and Scizor, the two weakest links, and replaced them with Parashuffler Dragonite and Parashuffler Gyarados to help patch up my weakness to Hydro Pump and Scizor, while also giving me a solid answer to sun teams.

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    I was 8 points away from breaking into the top 100 chart when I faced EonX and his stupid Sub+CM Jirachi. It, simply put, raped my team because none of my Pokémon could break its stupid substitute and live to tell the tale. Unfortunately, after facing EonX, I saw these obnoxious pixies a lot more, so ultimately an adjustment had to be made. I decided to scrap my gyarados because Dragonite was doing its job better thanks to roost and STAB dragontail, and because Gyara’s 4x Electric weakness was annoying. After a little bit of experimentation, I decided to fill the open slot with a funky Celebi I designed to handle both Heatran and the pesky Sub+CM Jirachi. This team is, in my opinion, the best team I have ever crafted. It does have some weaknesses, well built DragMag teams being the most notable, but on the whole, I find that this team can handle most threats reasonably well.

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    The Team


    Doreah (Dragonite) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 12 Spd / 244 SDef
    Careful Nature

    Dragon Tail

    I find that people tend to forget just how powerful dragon tail is with STAB and a 304 attack stat. Dragon Tail is amazing on dragonite, and when SR is up, it can quickly weaken the opponents team to set up for a sweep
    Thunder Wave
    The crux of this set. The speed drop from paralysis allows Haxorus, Celebi, and Mamoswine to sweep more easily while the Parahax allows Alakazam and Dragonite to set up substitutes that don’t immediately break.
    Protects against pesky status and also allows for more multiscale abuse (roost behind unbroken Sub). This move goes a long way to prolong Dragonite’s life.
    The primary form of Recovery for Dragonite. Roost also has the added bonus of removing Dragonite’s Flying type and, by extension, allows it to take less punishment from Ice and Rock type attacks.

    Dragonite’s Roles
    Paralysis Spreader, Phazer, Water Attack Sponge, Fighting Attack Sponge, Sun Team Check, General Purpose Special Wall

    Why Dragonite?
    It seems that Parashuffler Dragonite has gotten noticeably more popular in my absence, which is very interesting. Not that I’m surprised- the Parashuffler is a beast in this metagame. Anyways, Dragonite’s main role on this team is spreading Paralysis through Multiscale abuse, Dragon Tailing, and Roost+Substalling. I’m not gonna bore you with the specifics on how this works, because the on-site explanation does that better than I ever could. Instead I’m gonna tell you how Dragonite contributes to this team besides the obvious Parashuffling. For starters, Dragonite sports a very nice palette of resistances including resistances to Hydro Pumps, which comes in handy when facing rain teams. Dragonite also resists Fire and Grass type attacks, which is very helpful when facing sun teams. It takes almost no damage from Venasaur’s most common moves and can paralyze it in return, it takes Volcarona’s STAB’s like a pro and can paralyze/Phaze Volc to cripple it or heavily damage it respectively, and can play around Heatran packing Dragon Pulse or Hidden Power (Ice) very effectively. Finally, Terrakion can also stomach powerful fighting attacks in a pinch and can act as a multipurpose Special Wall if need be thanks to its respectable special bulk.

    The EV’s on Dragonite are fairly straightforward, designed to maximize Dragonite’s special bulk. I did give Dragonite a few extra speed EV’s though so that it always outruns most other Parashuffling Dragonites and So that it can Sub before defensive Politoeds can use Toxic. One thing that I feel that people do overlook about Parashuffler Dragonite that still deserves note is the power behing Dragonite’s Dragon Tail. Even when uninvested, Dragonite has a 304 attack. When you throw in a base 60 power STAB attack, you will be dishing out some serious damage. I mean, you may not be breaking through Skarmorys or Ferrothorns any time soon, but you are doing about 30% to Celebis and Terrakions, and opposing dragon types just get decimated by Dragon Tail. Actually, the large amount of damage Dragon Tail does to opposing dragons actually causes this Dragonite to have pretty good offensive synergy with my Celebi. My Celebi can get past some of the bulkier offensive mons (like Terrakion and Conkledurr) but one thing it struggles against are dragon types since none of its attacks really do that much to them. However, when Dragonite is spamming Dragon Tail, sooner or later my opponent tries to use their Hydragon’s Dragon Pulse or something to break through Dragonite’s Substitute or Marvel Scale, and takes a ton of damage in the process. This opens the gates for Celebi who could then clean up a weakened, dragon-lite team.


    Daenerys (Haxorus) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature


    Haxorus’s most powerful STAB option. I decided to use Outrage over Dragon Claw or Dual Chop because Haxorus is my primary wall breaker and needs as much power as it can get.
    Aqua Tail
    Aua Tail is a new toy Haxorus got in B2W2. It gives a more consistent “STAB” option in rain and allows it to get through threats such as Gliscor and Hippodon.
    Low Kick
    Another New toy Haxorus got its stubby little hands on. Low Kick is Haxorus’s most powerful option against most steels outside of rain, and doesn’t lower Haxorus’s Attack and Defense stats like Superpower would.
    Dragon Dance
    After a Dragon Dance, Haxorus outspeeds all non scarfed threats and has the power to OHKO most of OU’s premier walls. I entertained Sword Dance over Dragon Dance for a while, but ultimately I found that Dragon Dance had more utility. After all, no matter how well I played Dragonite, the odds of me paralyzing every Pokémon on my opponents team is not high.

    Haxorus’s Roles
    Physical Sweeper, Wallbreaker, Late Game Cleaner

    Why Haxorus
    Haxorus is pretty straightforward really. I generally use Dragonite, Jirachi, and Celebi to wear my opponent’s team down and then use Haxorus to clean up. Outrage is the obligatory stab while Aqua Tail and Low Kick hit Gliscor and Ferrothorn hard respectively. I use Lum Berry over Life Orb because Lum Berry lets me set up more easily and lets me give Sableye the almighty finger. Besides, by the time I bring Haxorus out, Life Orb generally is unnecessary anyways. I use Dragon Dance over Sword Dance for reasons listed above, and I use Jolly over Adamant mainly because I needed an extra check to Kyurem and once again, I never really missed the extra power. The EV spread is also straightforward: max speed, max attack. Finally, one interesting thing I learned while playing with this team is that Mamoswine’s Ice Shard and Scizor’s Bullet Punch aren’t clean OHKO’s. That’s right, thanks to its respectable 70/100 defenses, Haxorus survives these attacks with about 20% HP to spare. Just something to consider when you’re up against this beast .


    Cersei (Alakazam) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature

    Focus Blast

    Allows me to nuke the living Hell out of Scizor and Tyranitar. It’s a shame that Alakazam doesn’t have access to Aura Sphere, But Focus Blast can guarantee a few KO’s Aura sphere couldn’t, so whatever.
    STAB of choice for Alakazam. I chose Psyshock over psychic on alakazam to help me work my way through Clissey/Chansey while also giving myself a solid answer to Keldeo, Virizion, and Volcarona switch-ins.
    Shadow Ball
    Shadow Ball rounds out coverage on Alakazam, allowing it to hit psychics hard.
    When combined with Parahax, Substitute works wonders. Just come in on a paralyzed opponent and keep subbing until the opponent misses one of their turns. Then, you can go in for the kill. Substitute gives Alakazam insurance against a Focus Blast miss and also makes Tornadus-T think twice about trying to revenge kill Alakazam.

    Alakazam’s Roles
    Special Sweeper, Wallbreaker, Late Game Cleaner, Makeshift Revenge Killer

    Why Alakazam?
    In my opinion, Alakazam is the most threatening special sweeper in the entire OU metagame. With its three attacks, Alakazam achieves perfect coverage and thanks to Life Orb and its monstrous 135 Special Attack Alakazam can knock out just about any Pokémon in OU with the appropriate move barring dedicated special walls. Actually, most special walls are still defeated by Alakazam thanks to Psyshock which hits on their much lower defense stat. Really the only Pokémon that can hard counter Alakazam is specially defensive Jirachi. Everything else is at risk of getting 2HKO’ed.

    Alakazam is more than just a sweeper though. My team lacks a Scarfer so I often rely on Alakazam to revenge key threats. Paralysis is generally able to slow down most of my opponent’s Pokémon to the point where Mamoswine or Celebi can come in and take care of the more threatening mons like Terrakion or Gengar, but every now and again there’s one that got away and that’s where Alakazam comes into play. Alakazam’s base 120 speed stat lets it run down most threats such as the aforementioned Terrakion and Gengar, but also stuff like Starmie and Celebi who manage to shrug off Thunder Wave thanks to Natural Cure. I considered Focus Sash on Alakazam for a while because it allowed be to check just about any Pokémon in the game but ultimately I decided that my team was bulky enough to handle unboosted attacks from Scarfed Pokémon while Mamoswine can check the majority of Speed Boosters (Dragon Dancers) using Ice Shard, so for I decided to go for the extra power for a change and gave Alakazam Life Orb.


    Margaery (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 180 Spd / 232 HP / 84 SAtk / 12 Def
    Modest Nature

    Giga Drain

    STAB move of choice. I went with Giga Drain over Leaf Storm because Giga Drain gives Celebi more staying power and allows it to recover some of the HP it loses from life orb. Giga Drain, along with Hidden Power (Fire) goes a long way in breaking up Volt-Turn cores by decimating the likes of Rotom-W.
    Earth Power
    Used to give my team a good way to handle Heatran while also giving me the ability to breaking Sub+CM Jirachi’s substitutes 100% of the time, even at +2 and in the rain.
    Hidden Power [Fire]
    Allows me to nail the likes of Scizor and Forretress and other such steel types. Also, whenever an apposing Heatran switches into Hidden Power (Fire), they never switch out the next turn allowing me to KO all but scarf variants with Earth Power.
    Keeps Celebi healthy and reverses the negative effects of Life Orb and overall entry hazard damage. Helps a ton when Giga Drain just wouldn’t heal enough HP.

    Celebi’s Roles
    Status Absorber, Bulky Water Check, Fighting Type Check, Volt- Turn Check, Heatran/Scizor Lure, Bulky Defensive Pivot

    Why Celebi
    Despite its offensive set, I tend to use Celebi as a defensive pivot more than anything else, while the Life Orb and the Special Attack investment are mainly just there to help Celebi take down a few additional threats. Celebi sports an amazing palette of resistances, most notably to Water and Electric type attacks, making it a good answer to many water types like Starmie and Rotom-W, taking little from their attacks and hitting back hard with Giga Drain. Speaking of Rotom-W, Celebi does an outstounding job of busting open the Rotom-Scizor Volt-Turn core, courtesy of Giga Drain and Hidden Power (Fire) respectively, saving my team from endless prediction wars. Celebi also has the very handy resistance to Fighting Type attacks, which makes it a nice makeshift check to Terrakion that like spamming Close Combat.

    Furthermore, this same Fighting type resist, along with its grass type resist, makes Celebi an outstanding Breloom counter Taking little from Breloom’s Stab Attacks and shrugging off Spores like they’re nothing thanks to Natural Cure. Finally, Celebi does an excellent job of breaking up Ferrothorn + Jellicent cores thanks to its immunity to :eech Seed and status and Celebi’s access to Recover which lets it shrug off any residual damage it may have taken.
    The given EV spread was tailored to give Celebi as much bulk as possible while allowing Celebi to take down a few key threats. The given Speed investment ensures that Celebi will always outspeed all Heatran and, with the given investment, can always OHKO after Stealth Rock. Furthermore, Celebi will always be able to break a +2 Sub CM Jirachi’s substitute while taking minimal damage from Water Pulse and Thunder while avoiding the 2HKO from Flash Cannon. Finally, the Remaining EV’s were used to maximize Celebi’s Bulk. 232 HP EV’s gives Celebi 399 HP, minimizing Life Orb recoil and entry hazard damage, and the remaining few EV’s were thrown into defense for the additional bulk.

    Obviously, Celebi can’t touch most dragon types, which, while a problem, can be worked around. Like I previously mentioned, Dragonite synergizes really well with Celebi and can pummel the opponent’s dragon types with Dragon Tail, while paralysis lets Celebi outspeed a whole host of threats including Terrakion, Infernape, and multiple Scarfed mons.


    Ygritte (Mamoswine) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature


    Obligatory STAB. Not much else to say about this. It hits like a truck against everything but flying and levitate Pokémon.
    Superpower does an amazing job of handling the Pink Blobs, Tyranitar, Balloon Heatran, and Ferrothorn.
    Ice Shard
    Ice Shard is this team’s only form of priority. It allows me to check most dragon, flying, and grass types such as Salamence, Tornadus, and Venasaur. also, Ice Shard is a great tool when trying to clean up a weakened team.
    My ace in the hole against weather teams. After eliminating the opponents weather inducer, I can use Hail to eliminate my opponents weather for good. Mamoswine isn’t exactly hard- pressed to find a switch-in opportunity, so I am generally able to use Hail when I force the opponent out.

    Mamoswine’s Roles
    Dragon Type Check,Therian Check, Steel Type Check, Weather Team Check, BoltBeam Attacker Counter.

    Why Mamoswine

    Mamoswine is amazing in this metagame. Ice Shard can keep dragon types and the Therians in check while Earthquake and Superpower are great for handling steels that can hinder aHaxorus sweep. Mamoswine’s last moveslot has a pretty lengthy history behind it but I found that Hail is the most effective option. This is mostly because players don’t really guard their weather inducers when playing weatherless teams, which means their weather inducers don’t require an entire lengthy process to take down, which means once the inducer dies Hail can screw them over which means I WIN!!!!!! OK it’s not as simple as that but Hail is an excellent ace in the hole against teams that use their weather inducer as death fodder. Anyways I started running Jolly nature to nab a surprise kill on opposing Mamoswine, but this doesn’t work so well anymore because Superpower is now standard fair on Mamoswine. Still, Jolly lets me outspeed Heatran and KO and also lets me get off an Ice Shard before Breloom can use Mach Punch so I decided to stick with it. TheEV’s are, once again, pretty straightforward. All I did was max speed and max attack for maximum killing power with the last EV thrown into HP for the marginal boost in bulk.

    Actually, now that I mention it, Mamoswine is pretty bulky. 110/80/60 is respectable, especially on the physical side. That’s not to mention Mamoswines resistance to BoltBeam courtesy of Thick Fat. Actually, I think Mamoswine is one of a two Pokémon that resist the BoltBeam combination, the other of course being Lanturn. This resistance to BoltBeam makes mamoswine an excellent check to the electric types that rely on BoltBeam’s coverage to do damage,such as Jolteon and some Rotom-W. actually, with prediction, Mamoswine can handle Thundurus-T really well, only fearing its fighting type coverage but otherwise forcing Thundurus-T out. Note that these sort of moments are perfect opportunities to use Hail to eliminate the opponents weather condition if they are using any.


    Arya (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 144 Def / 252 HP / 80 SDef / 32 Spd
    Calm Nature


    Wish keeps both Jirachi and my team healthy. Wish is especially useful when trying to keep team alive when facing a stall team.
    Iron Head
    Iron Head provides Jirachi with some consistent STAB. Iron Head hits a lot of special attackers for nuetral damage (notable exceptions being Rotom-W and Starmie) while also allowing me to abuse the Paralysis Dragonite so skillfully spreads. Furthermore, Iron Head flinches=extra lefties recovery, which is always nice.
    Stealth Rock
    Stealth Rock makes handling Volcarona and the Therians a hell of a lot easier. I decided to give Jirachi Stealth Rock over Mamoswine or Celebi because I often find that I have to set up Stealth Rock a few times a match and Mamoswine just doesn’t have the bulk to do that, while Celebi just doesn’t have enough space to carry Stealth Rock and still do its job.
    I Gave Jirachi U-Turn to make sure it didn’t get trapped and eliminated by magnezone. Like I said before, Jirachi is my only Steel Type, and I simply can’t afford to lose her in the face of a dragon onslaught. U turn also makes passing wishes a lot easier. A sort of added bonus.

    Jirachi’s Roles
    Dragon Type Check, Tornadus-T Counter, Hazard Layer, Wish Passer

    Why Jirachi
    I have said that this team is very vulnerable to dragon types and this is why. Jirachi is my only steel type.if anything else on this team gets hit with a dragon type attack, it will probably die, and my opponents will figure this out very quickly. They will try to overload Jirachi with multiple dragon type attacks and try to beat Jirachi into submission or otherwise attempt to trap Jirachi with Magnezone or something before going ahead with their dragon spam. For those reasons, I have made this Jirachi just about as good of a dragon type check as a Pokémon can be. The given defensive investment ensures that I will never be 2HKO’ed by Choice Band Haxorus’s Outrage or Choice Specs Latios’s Draco Meteor. Furthermore, I will never be 2HKO’ed by Latios’s Hidden Power (Fire) or OHKO’ed by any Earthquake from Choice Band Dragonite or Choice Band Salamence (CB Haxorus can still OHKO with Choice Band Earthquake though). In return, Jirachi can strike back hard with Iron Head for a healthy amount of damage or U-turn to Mamoswine to threaten the dragons out. Basically, Jirachi should be able to take any attack a dragon type sends her way and live to tell the tale. If it’s a super effective coverage move, it will leave a mark but Jirachi should be able survive and then I can react appropriately.

    U-Turn was added to this set to make sure I can switch out of Magnezones who could otherwise eleiminate Jirachi while Stealth Rocks forces Tornadus-T and Dragonite to come in at 75% health which makes them a lot more manageable. Wish is Jirachi’s only form of healing and is also my greatest weapon against stall teams thanks to its ability to heal off any damage entry hazards may have racked up. The EV spread, as I previously mentioned, makes sure that Jirachi can take any Dragon Type attack and live to tell the tale while the 32 speed EV’s make sure I always outrun Magnezone and Tyranitar. One final thing that I’d like to say is that I know that this Jirachi isn’t packing Iron Head and Body Slam and if I was allowed 6 moves to a Pokémon, I’d definitely throw them on Jirachi. Unfortunately I need Jirachi to handle some very specific threats and it needs this moveset to accomplish its goals.

    The Game Plan
    Show Hide
    This is a basic explanation of how I play this team and how I work around some playstyles that can be threatening. Obviously you have to make in game adjustments as necessary but generally the below strategies hold true. if you don't feel like reading all this, the basic strategy is to set up rocks, parashuffle with Dragonite, and then finish up with a sweep from one of my other pokemon.

    I like to start every match by laying hazards with Jirachi, but based on my opponent’s team I may end up starting with Celebi or Mamoswine instead. Either way my early game plan is to set up hazards and then pivot to Dragonite so he can start parashuffling. I let Dragonite do his thing, switching in Mamoswine, Celebi, or Jirachi when Dragonite gets threatened, but once the threat is neutralized or switches out, I generally go back to Dragonite. I work Dragonite until he runs out of PP in Dragon Tail or Roost at which point the majority of my opponent’s team is paralyzed and weakened from Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail respectively. At these points, one of my Pokémon can generally come in and clean sweep the remainder of my opponents team so I either sack Dragonite or normal switch to the appropriate Pokémon and go in for the kill. If one of my Pokémon can’t pull off a clean sweep when Dragonite is out of PP in one move, i generally try and create an opening for Alakazam or Haxorus to come in and start shooting off powerful attacks in the hopes of bringing one of my opponents Pokémon down thereby facilitating a sweep. Alternatively I can go down the more patient route and try to wear my opponents down some more before attempting a sweep. The second strategy seems to work better against more offensive teams because Life Orb recoil wears those teams down fast.

    Dragon Spam Teams
    Since Haxorus has a touph time setting up on these sort of teams, I generally start out the battle by using Haxorus as a suicide lead. Haxorus can set up on stuff Deoxys-D who try to set up screens or hazards for these types of teams or Haxorus can set up on Magnezones when my opponent is overeager and tries to KO Jirachi right off the bat. If my opponent leads with a dragon I end up just using Outrage hoping for a KO if my opponent overpredicts or if I outspeed my opponents dragon (mostly Dragonite, Hydreigon, and apposing Haxorus). In either case, I just keep on attacking with haxorus till it dies and then switch to Jirachi or Dragonite, whichever is more appropriate at the time. I set up rocks with Jirachi if I switched Jirachi in, I start working on ways to get Dragonite in safely and generally I do by baiting an Earthquake. Once Dragonite is in, I start him up on the usual track paralyzing my opponents and spamming Dragon Tail (which does a ton of damage against these types of teams, BTW) and basically just play normally. After my opponents faster dragons are paralyzed and my opponents priority users are weakened, I send in Mamoswine for a clean up sweep. However, if Mamoswine is KO’ed before/ during its sweep, I can generally go to Alakazam to tidy up just as long as I play around/eliminate any priority users my opponent may have. By the Way, Celebi is little more than death fodder against most Dragon Spam teams so be sure to use it as such.

    Stall Teams

    Stall teams are tricky because this team relies a lot on stacking up residual damage before going for the sweep, but most stallmons can recover that damage fairly easily. To counter this, I spend the whole game trying to set up Haxorus/Alakazam up for a sweep. Basically I play the same as normal but I do change up how I play Dragonite. Basically, instead of paralyzing every Pokémon that comes in to face me, I try to only paralyze the Pokémon preventing a Haxorus or Alakazam sweep. The logic behind this is that players try to save as many of their Pokémon from paralysis as possible and to that end they often switch in already paralyzed Pokémon into Dragonite. This allows me to rack up damage on those Pokémon using dragon tail weakening them to the point where Alakazam or Haxorus can sweep through them. You have to make sure you don’t let your opponent find out what you are trying to do because if they catch on, this strategy falls apart. To that end make sure you “pretend” to try to paralyze the opponents entire team; If you predict your opponent will switch from the non- paralyzed Tentacruel to the Paralyzed Jirachi, use Thunder Wave to feign trying to paralyze Tentacruel. After you feel you’ve racked up enough damage on Haxorus/ Alakazam’s counters, feel free to switch those guys in and sweep to victory. One more thing about facing stall. If entry hazard damage is racking up, you can always spam Jirachi’s wish to keep the team relatively healthy. Just a helpful tip.


    This team works wonders when played right. Parashuffler Dragonite is an all around beast and just does such a great job of setting up endgame sweeps by one of my more offensive mons. If you don’t feel like using another weather team, feel free to borrow this one. Thanks for reading and rates are appreciated. Valar Dohaeris.​
  2. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked

    Apr 15, 2010
    BTW if any of the above colors make reading difficult, let me know.

    Show Hide

    Doreah (Dragonite) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 12 Spd / 244 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Thunder Wave
    - Substitute
    - Roost

    Margaery (Celebi) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 180 Spd / 232 HP / 84 SAtk / 12 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Recover

    Daenerys (Haxorus) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Mold Breaker
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Aqua Tail
    - Low Kick
    - Dragon Dance

    Cersei (Alakazam) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 Spd / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Focus Blast
    - Psyshock
    - Shadow Ball
    - Substitute

    Ygritte (Mamoswine) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Hail
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower
    - Ice Shard

    Arya (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 144 Def / 252 HP / 80 SDef / 32 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Wish
    - Iron Head
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn

    Threat List

    I borrowed this threatlist from -Rockstar- because i didn't feel like making my own but w/e.

    Not really a threat. Celebi outspeeds and KO’s as does Mamoswine. Haxorus can eat an Ice Shard if it comes down to that but it really shouldn’t

    Jirachi is about as good of a counter to Alakazam as there ever will be. It can stomach all of its common attacks and retaliate with Iron Head or U Turn. Mamoswine can also use Ice Shard for the KO, but Jirachi is the better answer because it can handle focus sash variants.

    Alakazam’s Psyshock does a ton of damage to Blissey and can also absorb any toxics it may send my way. Dragonite’s Dragon Tail also hits Blissey hard as does Mamoswine’s Superpower.

    Celebi resists both of its stabs and can recover from Spore thanks to natural cure. Mamoswine can also check it with Ice Shard if need be.

    Jirachi can handle most of these effectively with U-turn/Iron Head just as long as they don’t have Earth Power. Alakazam may not be able to switch in but it can hit celebi hard with Shadow Ball.

    Chansey is a bit tougher than Blissey thanks to the superior defenses. Still, Alakazam handles it pretty well since the worst Chansey can do is Seismic Toss. Haxorus can also use these as setup fodder thanks to Lum Berry

    Cloyster is very threatening to this team. After a Shell Smash, Cloyster can basically take down my entire team. Luckily the only thing it can really set up on is Jirachi and unboosted Haxorus so as long as I play carefully with those two, I should be fine. Still, it is very threatening

    Celebi can hit it hard with Giga Drain and survives Payback. Dragonite can phase out variants that don’t have Ice Punch since it doesn’t really care about Conkledurr’s STAB attacks and takes minimal damage from Payback.

    I generally go with Haxorus and Alakazam can both turn up the heat on Deoxys-D, the former setting up on it and the latter 2HKOing it with Shadow Ball (and it can set up Substitute. Dragonite can also phase/damage it with Dragon Tail. I generally can stop it from setting up Stealth Rock and Spikes or both screens, so I consider this thing mostly a nonissue.

    Not a huge a threat. Dragonite phases it out and Mamoswine and Celebi both hit it really hard. Ice Shard also doesn’t 2HKO Haxorus without investment which means I can hit it with Aqua Tail in a pinch. Rapid Spin doesn’t really bother my team because Jirachi is bulky enough to set rocks up several times a game.

    Dragonite is dangerous because it is so unpredictable. I generally try to make sure that Stealth Rock is always on the field but if the opponent has a spinner that can get tricky. Jirachi can tank a hit and strike back with Iron Head and Mamoswine can Check offensive variants with Ice Shard. My own Dragonite can cripple it with Thunder Wave if it got dragged out by Dragon Tail and Haxorus can check the Parashuffler thanks to Mold Breaker and Lum Berry. All in all Dragonite is threatening because it can run several powerful sets, but once I figure out what it’s doing I can handle it with smart play.

    the only thing Dugtrio can really do to my team is trap and KO Jirachi, but if I see that my opponent has a dugtrio I generally manage to dance around it with Jirachi’s U-Turn. Everything else on my team handle Dugtrio fairly well to be honest.

    Alakazam KO it with Shadow Ball while Dragonite can shuffle it with Dragon Tail if it tries to set up. The whole entire reflect back Thunder Wave and Stealth Rock thing is annoying but I can play around it.

    Celebi shits all over this thing with Hidden Power (Fire). Mamoswine, Haxorus, and Alakazam can also all hit it hard with their respective fighting moves. Spikes stacking can get annoying, but if it wants to stack spikes its gonna have to do it one layer per switch in or rish getting KO’ed by one of the four aforementioned mons.

    Jirachi can set up rocks all day and doesn’t really care whether or not Forretress wants to spin them away. Celebi can come in and KO forretress with Hidden Power (Fire) if need be but it generally doesn’t come to that. Forretress lacks any reliable recovery so repeated hits will ultimately wear it down.

    Celebi shuts Gastrodon down, taking laughable damage from Ice Beam and Earthquake while OHKO’ing back with Giga Drain. it can get a safe switchin against Jirachi, but it can’t really harm my team once its in.

    Gengars can be tricky, but my Dragonite should be able to handle it. Dragonite can play mindgames on sub variants using Dragon Tail and Thunder Wave, both of which cripple it one way or another. Alakazam can also revenge kill it, but it hasn’t ever come to that.

    Celebi can shut down any Gliscor that doesn’t have Acrobatics.Haxorus can survive any attack it shoots at me and hit back hard with Aqua Tail and Alakazam can revenge kill it with Shadow Ball. This team handles status pretty well so Toxic should be a non issue.

    Ice Fang variants can be tricky, but all other variants can be handled by Celebi and/or Dragonite. Alakazam can revenge kill it if it isn’t scarfed or isn’t an offensive Dragon Dance Variant. Paralysis is my best friend against this thing, since it lets stuff like Haxorus and Alakazam outspeed even after a couple of dragon dances and always KO. Still, this thing can get tricky.

    I generally try to bait an outrage with Dragonite or Celebi and then let Jirachi take it down. Mamoswine can revenge kill it with Ice Shard but some prior damage is required. The Dragon Dance variant is probably the most dangerous because after a boost it outspeeds my entire team and still hits like a truck.

    These things are pretty easy to handly. Celebi can lure it in and KO with Earth Power while Dragonite can handle it really well with Multiscale intact, but I do have to watch out for Toxic. If any of Haxorus, Alakazam, or Mamoswine get in safely, they can KO with their respective fighting moves.

    Celebi can handle it fairly well and Alakazam can hit it hard with Focus Blast or Shadow Ball. Its very bulky on the physical side so I need to make sure its weakened before I go for a Haxorus/Mamoswine sweep.

    These things are very troublesome but they are in no position to sweep the team. Generally I dance between Jirachi and Dragonite against this thing depending on if I think he will use Draco Metor or one of its coverage attacks. Haxorus and Alakazam can beat most nonscarfed variants while Mamoswine can revenge kill it in a pinch so I should be fine.

    Dragonite can come in on a predicted Fire or fighting type move and cripple it with Thunder Wave. Alakazam can also check it if its not packing Mach Punch, while Haxorus can take anything except Hidden Power (Ice and KO in return. This team handles Infernape fairly well in my opinion.

    Not a huge threat. My team handles status fairly well so I’m not too worried about Will-o-Wisp or Scald burns. Celebi can come in and hit it hard with Giga Drain. its not gonna be diggin Haxorus’s Outrage or Alakazam’s Shadow Balls either.

    These are very threatening. Celebi can handle handle most variants with Earth Power but it is at risk of getting haxed to death and doesn’t really like U-Turns. My Own Jirachi can handle the specially defensive set since it resists all of its common attacks and can use the opportunity to try to wish pass or set up rocks. Overall though, if Jirachi gets lucky with hax, it will be able to steamroll my team.

    the Specs variants can be handled with good prediction, but the LO variants are a nightmare since it outspeeds everything on my team and can hit everything hard. Jirachi is my best answer, since it can stomach a Thunder Bolt and hit back with Iron Head. Mamoswine can take it down with Ice Shard after some prior damage, but if I don’t KO it will probably take me down with Shadow Ball. Hopefully I can hit it with Dragon Tail at some point in the match but at the end of the day, this thing is a nightmare.

    Dragonite and Celebi can both take on the Sub+CM variants since they resist its STABs. CM+3 attacks can be trickier but the most common Hidden Power seems to be ghost so Dragonite shouldn’t have much of a problem with those either. Alakazam can also revenge kill it in a pinch.
    Kyurem: The Sub+Roost ones are the main problems since they are so bulky yet very powerful. Jirachi can handle variants without Earth Power pretty well, while Haxorus and Alakazam can revenge kill it with Outrage and Focus Blast. Honestly when it comes in I just try to make sure it doesn’t get a Sub up and then work from their because these things are a lot easier to handle if you can hit them directly. Still, I’m glad these things aren’t incredibly common.

    Mamoswine can Ice Shard it, so I’m rarely in danger of being swept by this thing. However, the Choice Scarf variants lead to some nasty prediction wars. Generally I try to nail the thing with a few Dragon Tails to wear it down and eliminate it quickly.

    More or less the same as Landorus-I except now it packs intimidate. Mamoswine still checks the thing but I don’t have to worry about Hidden Power (Ice) so much so Dragonite is a safer switch in. these things tend to go for bulkier spreads so I’m not really at risk of being KO’ed by Stone Edge. Celebi also fares pretty well against bulkier vvariants of Landours-T as long as I dance around U-Turn.

    Jirachi can work its way through this thing with Iron Head, wishing as necessary. Alakazam can revenge it if it isn’t behind a sub and doesn’t have too many Calm Minds under its belt. Finally, if Dragonite brings it out with Dragon Tail, it can cripple Latias with Thunder Wave while shrugging off the unboosted Dragon Pulses.

    I will never be swept by Latios thanks to Alakazam and Mamoswine, but it can still dish out the pain. Jirachi can Stomach Draco Meteors and recover the HP with Wish while Dragonite can take just about anything Else Latios sends its way. Once latios uses its First Draco Meteor it becomes setup fodder for Dragonite, so I can always take advantage of that.

    Lucario can easily cleanup this team late game. Luckily, Dragonite often drags it out before then so I can cripple it with Thunder Wave or hit it hard with Dragon Tail. Celebi outspeeds Adamant Lucario and can KO with Hidden Power (Fire) while surviving a +2 Extremespeed. Mamoswine is in a similar boat but must be careful about Bullet Punch. Haxorus outspeeds Lucario and can take an unboosted Extremespeed and KO back with Aqua Tail. This team also gives Lucario a pretty hard time setting up since just about everything on this team can hit it for neutral damage barring Jirachi, of course.

    I’m spamming U-Turn against magnezone teams because I need Jirachi to help me handle Dragon types. Dragonite can set up on it pretty comfortably though which is pretty useful. Magnezone doesn’t really threaten anything on my team except Jirachi so I’m generally not too worried about it.

    Most are adamant so my own Mamoswine can check them with Superpower. Celebi can take anything they throw at me barring Icicle Crash and hit back hard with Giga Drain. Haxorus can also check them in a pinch.

    Celebi can tank anything except Ice Punch and Earth Power back. Jirachi can take on variants without Earthquake but the most I can do at that point is hope for freeze Hax. Alakazam and Haxorus do a good job of handling variants without bullet punch.

    Jirachi can handle most of what Mew throws its way and hit back hard with U-Turn. Alakazam also checks it really well.

    Ninetails is a pretty shitty Pokémon on the whole while most sun teams have trouble with Dragonite. Haxorus can set up on ninetails, resisting its most common attacks and absorbing Will o Wisp with Lum Berry.

    Celebi can handle most of these fairly well since Choice Scarf Ice Beam won’t KO while Giga Drain can. Dragonite can set up on defensive variants with a bit of fancy footwork. Haxorus and Alakazam can both beat it too.

    Most of these are checked by Alakazam or are otherwise handled by Dragonite. Haxorus’s Outrage hits it hard too.

    this thing can get annoying to work around but Haxorus can plow through it with a couple of boosts. Dragonite can set up on it and can use Dragon Tail before it gets around to Whirlwind, so its manageable. Celebi and Alakazam also hit it hard.

    Starmie gets worked on by Celebi pretty easily and Alakazam can revenge it as necessary. Jirachi can handle anything except rain-boosted Hydro Pumps and can heal up with Wish or hit back hard with U-Turn.

    As long as I make sure Dragonite doesn’t eat a Toxic from it I’m fine. There isn’t a ton it can do to my team and Alakazam can hit it hard with Psyshock or alternatively use it to set up substitutes.

    Terrakion is a threat to any team that doesn’t use Golurk in my opinion. However, my team is able to play around it pretty effectively. Dragonite and Celebi are able to stomach Close Combats and can hit it with Thunder Wave or Giga Drain respectively while Jirachi can take a Stone Edge and use wish to recover any lost damage. Dragonite will often pull it out with Dragon Tail and can then play mindgames with Dragon Tail and Thunder Wave. Finally, Alakazam can Revenge kill it with Psyshock should it come to that. Everything on my team except Jirachi can hit it hard, so it has trouble getting in safely.

    While nothing can counter Thundurus-T, Mamoswine is about as good of a check as you’ll ever find. Jirachi can take anythink Thunderus sends its way and strike back with Ice Punch while Dragonite can check Choice Thunderus as long as it doesn’t switch in on Hidden Power (Ice). Finally Alakazam can Revenge non Scarfed variants.

    Jirachi works really well against Tornadus-T, being able to eat Hurricanes like a boss and hit back with Iron Head for the KO. Mamoswine can also check it with Ice Shard or can preemptively check it by taking away its rain using Hail. Finally, if Thunder Wave cripples Tornadus-T, so if I can get Dragonite in safely or Dragon Tail pulls it out, that is always an option.

    It all depends on the set really. Sub variants are the most difficult because they can hit my whole team hard. Celebi can eat a Sucker Punch and strike back with earth Power while using Recover as necessary. Dragonite can also take on Toxicroak behind a sub if Toxicroak doesn’t have Ice Punch. If its not a sub set, life becomes a lot easier. Mamoswine can eat a Substitute and KO with Earthquake, Haxorus can Outrage in a pinch, while Alakazam can play mindgames with Substitute+Psyshock to help it get around Sucker Punch. Finally, since Toxicroak is so dependant on weather, using Hail after Politoed goes down is a great way to ruin Toxicroak’s chances of a sweep.

    Hardly a threat. Jirachi can hit it pretty hard with U-Turn, Haxorus has Low Kick, Alakazam can slam it with Focus Blast, Mamoswine’s got Superpower, Celebi’s got Giga Drain, and Dragonite can paralyze the thing and use Dragon Tail to rack up damage. Tyranitar can’t really threaten this team at all. Yes sandstorm is annoying, but I can always use Hail if I want to change the weather.

    Vaporeon: Repeated hits will wear this thing down. Celebi can decimate it if it becomes annoying but it is mostly dead weight against my team.

    The main problem is figuring out what to sacrifice to Sleep Powder, but after that’s done, Venasaur is pretty easy to handle. Dragonite can handle most of its common moves and cripple it with Thunder Wave or use Dragon Tail for Massive Damage. Jirachi can handle most sets that use Hidden Power (Ice) over Hidden Power (Fire), taking a pitiful amount from Solarbeam and Hidden Power (Ice) while hitting back hard with Iron Head. Mamoswine can hit it hard with Ice Shard or can use Hail at some point after Ninetails goes down to neuter Venasaurs sweeping potential.

    Celebi is a pretty good answer to the physical versions of Virizion since they rarely ever carry super effective coverage on it. Special versions could be a lot more problematic though, as they carry Hidden Power Ice, but Celebi can tank a hit and strike back with Hidden Power (Fire). Alakazam and Mamoswine can check Virizion with Psyshock and Ice Shard respectively.

    the best way to handle Volcarona is to 1.) get rocks up and then 2.) use Dragon Tail like crazy. If that doesn’t work though, Dragonite is actually a pretty good counter to most Volcarona since they don’t often carry Hidden Power (Rock). Thunder Wave cripples the thing and I can always phase it out with Dragon Tail. By the way, if it does have have Hidden Power (Rock), I lost gg.

    Zoroark: the key to beating Zoroark is getting around Illusion. Once you do that, the thing becomes a lot easier to handle. Dragonite checks Zoroark pretty well, paralyzing the thing and then Dragon Tail it for heavy damage. Mamoswine can check the thing with Ice Shard while Alakazam can hit it with Focus Blast if it comes down to that.
  3. Jirachee

    Jirachee scootin
    is a Tournament Directoris an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Leader

    Sep 24, 2010

    This is a pretty nice team, Parashuffler Dragonite is very underestimated in this meta. However, I think you really underestimate Life Orb Starmie in your threatlist. Life Orb Starmie can effectively KO Celebi with Hydro Pump in the Rain + Ice Beam, and Starmie is quite a common member on Rain teams, so it could really become a problem. Not a lot on your team really appreciates getting hit by an Hydro Pump, and those who can take it will be swiftly taken down by an Ice Beam. This can be problematic seeing that it could come out pretty easily on Mamoswine's Ice Shard when you're against something like a boosted Dragon or a Therian, or with U-turn/ Volt Switch support and then proceed to pummel your team. You can revenge it effectively with Alakazam, but keep in mind that many teams use Starmie as their Rapid Spinner which means they probably aren't willing to sacrifice it. I also think that you could abuse Dragonite's phazing abilities a bit more. Stealth Rock is fine, as it damages pretty much everything, but there are many threats that take laughable damage from it and sometimes it won't be enough. I think that Ferrothorn could fit this team very well over Celebi. Ferrothorn is the perfect answer to Life Orb Starmie as it resists Hydro Pump and isn't weak to Ice Beam or Thunderbolt. It also equips your team with Spikes, and is a formidable user of it. Spikes is ideal for a team that uses Parashuffling Dragonite as it adds other hazards to Stealth Rock, and hits pretty much everything that resists Stealth Rock (Grounded Steel and Ground types). When you get multiple layers of Spikes in conjunction with Stealth Rock, combined with Dragon Tail's damage, Dragonite will turn from annoying to extremely dangerous. Of course, Ferrothorn replaces a Fighting resistance by a Fighting weakness, but Dragonite is more than capable to deal with most common Fighting types (with the exception of Terrakion), and Alakazam can beat them as well. Rotom-W could become a bit more annoying but since you have Lum Haxorus you can set up on it. I definetly think that Ferrothorn will improve your team a lot, because of its formidable match up against the common Rain teams, and its ability to support Dragonite with Spikes. It also really reduces the pressure Dragon types put on Jirachi because it is able to take them on as well.

    Also, if you're running Ferrothorn, you shouldn't have to run Ice Punch on Jirachi. Ferrothorn gives you a much sturdier Steel type when it comes to physical hits so you shouldn't be afraid of them setting up on you. Iron Head is then a much better choice as it allows Jirachi to hit enemies for respectable damage while also having a pretty amazing 60% chance to flinch. Even if you choose to not use Ferrothorn, I'd really recommend to use Iron Head over Ice Punch on Jirachi, because you have the absolute best Dragonslayer in the metagame which is Mamoswine. Mamoswine can revenge kill pretty much all of the physical Dragons anyway as they are x4 weak to Ice Shard. Jirachi really shouldn't run without Iron Head as it allows it to check much more stuff that way, like Reuniclus. I can understand why you'd run Ice Punch, but you really don't need when you can U-turn out of the Dragons in safety simply to switch to Mamoswine and destroy them.

    Other than that, great team. Here's the set you should use:
    Ferrothorn (open)

    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 92 Def / 164 SpD
    ~Power Whip
    ~Gyro Ball
    ~Leech Seed

    Good luck!
  4. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked

    Apr 15, 2010
    Hey Jirachi thanks for the rate.

    I've given Ferrothorn a spin and it has made my Dragonite a lot more threatening while also taking a ton of pressure off of Jirachi. However, I found that Ferrothorn has also opened me up to Sub+CM Jirachi since none of my Pokemon can handle it at all at this point. I'm gonna try running Ferrothorn with Bulldoze and see how that works out because i really like all the other stuff Ferrothorn brings to this team. I'll let you know how that goes.

    Also, I ended up changing Ice Punch to Iron Head as you suggested. I guess Ice Punch was just a reminent from earlier editions of the team and i had trouble giving it up because it was just so good at helping me handle dragons and the Therians. Iron Head has been more efficient on the whole though. I'll update the OP momentarily.
  5. Jimbon

    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Jan 24, 2012
    Hi there, got the request.

    Nice team, making great use of underrated threats such as Alakazam which can grant itself a lot of KOs with the Stealth Rock support you bring. One thing that does look problematic is hard hitting Special Attackers such as Hydreigon and Sub Calm Mind Jirachi. Hydreigon outspeeds Celebi and Mamoswine, dealing big hits to both of them, while heavily denting your Jirachi as you are not running full Special Defense investment. This may be hard for you to continually pass big Wishes to your other team mates, most notably Haxorus and Dragonite who both are quickly worn down by entry hazards. Sub Calm Mind Jirachi on the other hand also looks very annoying to face. Dragonite fails to phase it out as Dragon Tail fails to break Jirachi's Substitute, while other members of your team are used as set up fodder for Jirachi, most notably your own Jirachi and Celebi -- who will continually fail to break Jirachi's Substitutes after a couple Calm Minds. Alakazam, you main Special Attacker cannot really hurt it much either, with it's main STAB quad resisted, and having to rely on it's other options, not boosted by STAB. To help with these, I highly recommend you try out a Calm Mind Latias over your current Parashuffling Dragonite. Calm Mind Latias seems like a much better fit for your team. Latias is naturally very fast, and with this set you can perform an offensive and a defensive role. Latias also gives you a much more reliable answer to variants of Sub Calm Mind Jirachi and Hydreigon. You can very easily phase out Jirachi as it tries to spam Substitute / Calm Mind, while all variants of Hydreigon that aren't Scarfed are outsped and hit with a Dragon Pulse. Given that you are only using one entry hazard, there is less need to fully phase out everything in sight. Dragonite is often used as set up fodder for many Pokemon carrying Substitute, while Latias does not suffer that problem. Most importantly, Latias gives you a great answer against Sun Teams, which right now, seem to cause you a lot of trouble. Chlorophyll abusers such as Venusaur and Victreebell outspeed everything on your team, while easily spreading Sleep Powders and spamming Growths to further boost their power. Latias with it's great typing resists the common Grass / Fire moves used on Sun Teams, while in some situations, you can even set up against these aforementioned Pokemon, if you have something else asleep. Finally, it helps you out when taking Special hits, as your Jirachi is not running full special defensive investment. It puts less pressure on your team to deal with Therian formes, while giving you a much better answer to Thundurus-T, who looks annoying when used in Rain Teams. Ultimately this change helps you out greatly against weather teams, arguably the biggest threat to your team. As a result, you can afford to run another coverage move on Mamoswine in place of Hail, most likely Icicle Crash as you gain a reliable stab option with a good flinch rate.

    I also noticed your Haxorus spread, and it looks a little inefficient. Haxorus has a very unique base speed of 97, meaning that there is no need to run max speed. I recommend you change your Haxorus set to 36 HP / 252 Atk / 220 Spe over your current set. With this spread, you still outspeed things such as Venusaur, Dragonite and Mamoswine, while still outspeeding max speed Dragonite after a Dragon Dance. It's a small change but the minimal HP investment can really help out on such a frail sweeper such as Haxorus, when often you will be taking a lot of hits when you fail to get an OHKO or need a couple boosts to do so.

    Solid team, hope I helped!

    Calm Mind Latias (open)
    Latias @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
    - Calm Mind
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Recover
    - Roar
  6. Oh Captain

    Oh Captain

    Aug 4, 2012
    Luv disc'd

    Great presentation! a lot of effort and work went into that.
    Also the team overall is great too, Love para shuffle D-nite so underrated.
  7. Sayonara

    Sayonara don't forget

    Nov 18, 2011

    Got your request - cool team, forestflamerunner. First off, I'd go with a Timid Nature on Alakazam. Since you're only using special moves, there's really no need to use a nature that lowers your special defense - just go with Timid, as it lowers Attack, a stat that is no use to Alakazam. I find that SubDD Gyarados is a big threat to your team, as it can sweep your team after a few Dragon Dances with a combination of Waterfall and Bounce to get past Celebi, Mamoswine, Jirachi, Alakazam, Dragonite and Haxorus. To help deal with this threat, I'd also recommend Jirachi's proposal of a Standard Ferrothorn over Celebi. You've mentioned that SubCM Jirachi is a problem, so I think you'd be better off with Earthquake on a Choice Scarf Haxorus (see set below). With a moveset consisting of Outrage / Earthquake / Superpower / Dragon Claw, it can get past Jirachi with Earthquake, making it a solid check. Superpower is preferred over Low Kick for the more consistent power, allowing you to get rid of Ferrothorn if it is weakened enough. Dragon Claw is better than Aqua Tail, in my opinion, as it prevents Haxorus from locking itself into Outrage to finish off a weakened opponent. I'd go with Psychic over Psyshock on Alakazam, so you can get past Gliscor and Bulk Up Conkeldurr, and Psychic is a more powerful move anyways. Finally, Hail is pretty much a waste of a moveslot on Mamoswine, so I'd replace it by Stone Edge so you can finish off Volcarona and hit Gyarados hard. I don't have much else to add - cool team, and good luck. Hope I helped.

    Choice Scarf Haxorus (open)

    Haxorus @ Choice Scarf | Mold Breaker
    Adamant | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ~ Outrage
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Superpower
    ~ Dragon Claw
  8. Dragonfruit


    Aug 4, 2012

    if all men die there would be know way to make babies and life would end as we know it. Also Pokemon don't exist so sorry to burst your bubble but it's not happening.

    Anyway, if you're running Earth Power on Celebi, I'd recommend using Hidden Power Ice over Hidden Power Fire because otherwise, you have no way to deal with Breloom as Celebi in Rain. If Mamoswine is gone, which is possible because it's weak to stealth rock and has life orb, faster dragons like Dragon Dance Latios or Calm Mind Latias will sweep your team, so Hidden Power Ice is definitely a better idea. You could also go with Perish Song to help force switches and whatnot. Anyway this team is cool and I like Alakazam but it should be Timid Nature unless you want to die to like Torchic Ember since your special defense is low and stuff
  9. forestflamerunner

    forestflamerunner Ain't no rest for the wicked

    Apr 15, 2010
    Thanks for all the rates guys I'll respond to them here

    @Jirachi-Ferrothorn with Bulldoze works well. I'll be implementing that change sometime tomorrow. Thanks for the help.

    @Jimbon- I'm a bit hesitant to try CM Latias over Dragonite because that opens up a huge weakness to Volcarona, which can DD up on Jirachi or Celebi (Ferrothorn now, but w/e. point still stands) and proceed to oneshot my entire team. anyways, now that I've added Ferrothorn, there's no reason for me not to use the classic specially defensive Jirachi set, which should help me out against special attackers. I'll also be implementing that EV spread you proposed for Haxorus but I'll probably take one of those Attack EV's and move it into speed because I'm such a troll :D.

    @ Oh Captain- Thanks! Kind words are always appreciated.

    @Expert Physics- I honestly don't know why i went with a Naive nature there. That has been fixed now though. also, since I've implemented Bulldoze Ferrothorn, Sub+CM Jirachi isn't such a huge threat and i honestly do prefer the extra power and sweeping ability of DD Haxorus. I'll try Psychic over Psyshock but Psyshock is useful for CM users. Finally, Hail can really change the tides in any battle against a weather team once its inducer goes down. That I feel is more useful than hitting a Gyarados or Volcarona that tries to set up on you (they both outspeed and KO naturally, so trying to use Stone Edge is playing Russian Roulette withMamo's life by default). thanks for the rate tho.

    @Dragonfruit- I didn't mean that literally. it's a quote from A Song of Ice and Fire. Its a great series and I strongly reccommend reading it, or you could always watch the show based off of it. I decided to replace Celebi as you probably figured out, but you couldn't have known that at the time. Thanks for the rate anyways.
  10. Masttershake


    May 8, 2012
    I'd like to second the watching of Game of Thrones, also Ygritte sexist ginger ever.

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