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Vanilluxe

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SuperJOCKE, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    [​IMG]
    Vanilluxe


    [Overview]

    <p>Yum, yum, ice cream. What? What do you mean, "no, it's a Pokemon?" Oh, right, the analysis. With Snow Warning being allowed in RU, there is finally a reason to use Vanilluxe. When it comes to Vanilluxe's stats, they are pretty solid overall. A great base 110 Special Attack is the first thing that pops out, which allows Vanilluxe to heavily damage its opponents with its STAB Blizzard. Vanilluxe also has good overall defenses and a good Speed stat for the role it plays, despite missing out on base 80 Speed Pokemon by two points. Vanilluxe also has a surprisingly good Attack stat, although it has no use for it. Other than that though, Vanilluxe has barely anything else going for it. Vanilluxe's movepool is as stale as its flavor, as it mostly consists of Ice-type moves, and status moves such as Autotomize and Taunt. So what does Vanilluxe do? Like Glaceon, it uses a Substitute + Protect set to slowly wear down the opponent with the hail's constant damage and its offensive moves. However, as you might have guessed, Vanilluxe does face stiff competition from Glaceon, so one must play to what Vanilluxe has over it: a higher Speed stat. With its higher Speed stat, Vanilluxe can actually outspeed key offensive threats such as Nidoqueen, Adamant Kabutops, and Adamant Gallade, something Glaceon just can't do (it can tie with Modest Nidoqueen at best). And as stated before, Vanilluxe has access to Taunt, which gives it an edge over Glaceon when facing Pokemon such as Slowking. This sums up Vanilluxe; it is basically a one-trick pony that faces stiff competition as an Ice-type on a hail team from not only Glaceon, but almost all relevant Ice-types in the tier. And one last thing: never use Vanilluxe outside of hail, as there are much better Pokemon for that in the tier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubProtect
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Blizzard
    move 4: Toxic / Hidden Power Ground
    items: Leftovers
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Timid
    evs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Like most Ice Body Pokemon, Vanilluxe dons the SubProtect role, and does it with success. Despite the competition it receives from Glaceon, Vanilluxe still sees use due to its greater Speed, which allows it to outspeed key threats such Nidoqueen, Adamant Kabutops, and Adamant Gallade, which Glaceon fails to do. The strategy behind this set is to wear down the opponent with the residual damage hail brings, while being protected from incoming attacks by Substitute and Protect. Blizzard is used as the main STAB move, as it gains perfect accuracy in hail, while it deals heavy damage thanks to its high Base Power and Vanilluxe's great Special Attack. With the damage from Blizzard and hail, wearing down the opponent will be rather quick and easy. However, some special walls, most notably Slowking and Cryogonal, gives this set trouble, as they resist Blizzard and have access to recovery moves. Toxic makes these Pokemon less of an issue, as it makes it a lot harder for them to stay alive. However, Hidden Power Ground is a good option if Vanilluxe has teammates that can cover the aforementioned threats, as it gives Vanilluxe super effective coverage against Pokemon such as Lanturn, Qwilfish, and various Fire- and Steel-types. Hidden Power Ground is especially useful against Qwilfish, as it is immune to Toxic.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Taunt is a great third option for the last slot. Taunt prevents Pokemon such as Slowking and Cryogonal from recovering their health with their respective recovery moves, and also stops any other non-attacking moves coming Vanilluxe's way, such as Stealth Rock and Spikes. Taunt is another thing that sets Vanilluxe apart from Glaceon. There are other types of Hidden Power that can be used over Hidden Power Ground as well. Hidden Power Fighting allows Vanilluxe to hit other Ice-types, more specifically Rotom-F, Piloswine, and Cryogonal, who all at least resist Vanilluxe's offensive moves, making them somewhat easier to deal with. Hidden Power Fighting also hits Miltank for super effective damage, but is only a 3HKO with Stealth Rock. However, Vanilluxe loses its super effective coverage on Lanturn, Qwilfish, and the Fire-types. This makes Hidden Power Rock another viable option, as it allows Vanilluxe to hit Fire-type Pokemon for super effective damage, while still hitting opposing Ice-types, except for Piloswine, for super effective damage as well. Overall, Hidden Power Ground is often the better choice, but one needs to mix and match to make the type fit the team's needs. The EVs are tailored so that Vanilluxe reaches a perfect HP number for this kind of set. This might sound complicated, but it is not. With 24 EVs put into HP, Vanilluxe recovers the same amount of HP it spent making a Substitute in two turns with Ice Body and Leftovers combined. This means that Vanilluxe can use Substitute, then Protect on the next turn, and be at full HP at the beginning on the turn after that. The rest of the EVs are pumped into Speed and Special Attack to give Vanilluxe as much offensive power as possible; keep in mind that max Speed is a necessity to allow Vanilluxe to outspeed as many threats as it can. A Timid nature builds on that even further, as it allows Vanilluxe to outspeed Adamant Gallade and Adamant Kabutops, but a Modest nature can be used for more power, although is not advised as Vanilluxe needs the Speed more.</p>

    <p>Besides Snover, who is a must have, there are several Pokemon in the tier that make great teammates for Vanilluxe. Poliwrath pairs up well with Vanilluxe due to its great defensive typing and stats. Offensive juggernauts such as Aggron, Durant, Absol, Escavalier, Entei, and Kabutops, who all give Vanilluxe trouble in one way or another, have huge issues with getting past Poliwrath due to its resistance to their STAB moves and great defenses. Miltank is another great partner due to its ability to take on opposing Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon, courtesy of Thick Fat. Escavalier makes an effective teammate for its ability to deal with opposing hail teams as well due to its Steel typing, while just being a powerful offensive presence in general; it also has access to Overcoat, which means Escavalier isn't bothered by hail. Escavalier does add an extra Fire-weak Pokemon to your team, but pairing it and Vanilluxe with Pokemon such as Miltank and Poliwrath will cover it up nicely. As Vanilluxe is weak to Fighting-type moves as well, Pokemon such as Slowking and Uxie make great teammates, not only due to their typing but also their general bulk. Slowking resists Fire-type moves as well, while Uxie brings many useful support moves to the table. Spiritomb gives Fighting-types, most notably Gallade, huge trouble as well and can dispose of most of them easily; the sole exception being, basically, Hariyama. Believe or not, Glaceon also pairs well with Vanilluxe. The two can successively wear down whole teams by deploying the same strategy and covering different threats with different moves. While not 100% necessary, Rapid Spin support and entry hazards helps. When it comes to Rapid Spin support, Cryogonal is the best choice due to its Ice typing, while Kabutops works great as well due to its resistance to Fire. However, both add onto the weaknesses Vanilluxe has, so pairing them with one of the aforementioned Pokemon is needed. Entry hazards are usually best provided by Miltank and Uxie when it comes to Stealth Rock, and Qwilfish is the absolute best choice for a Spikes user due to its typing.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Flash Cannon is the most usable offensive move that Vanilluxe can use besides the ones already mentioned. It allows Vanilluxe to hit opposing Ice-types super effectively, bar Walrein and co., but the coverage it provides aside from that is basically nonexistent, making it highly situational. Signal Beam is similar to Flash Cannon, except it hits Slowking for super effective damage. However, despite that fact, it can only 4HKO Slowking at best, making Toxic and Taunt much better options against Slowking. Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit an unsuspecting Escavalier hard, while also hitting other Ice-types, bar Piloswine and the Water / Ice-types, for super effective damage. However, the Hidden Power types mentioned earlier in the analysis are often far more favorable. Vanilluxe can pull off a sweeping role with Autotomize doubling its Speed, and using Blizzard, Hidden Power Ground, and either Flash Cannon or Substitute together with Life Orb and a Modest nature to be as threatening as possible; Petaya Berry is an option over Life Orb as well. However, due to the low Base Power and small range of coverage its moves brings, Autotomize Vanilluxe is too situational to be worth it; it can pull off a sweep, but it will not happen that often. Ice Shard is an gimmicky option, but Vanilluxe has a decent Attack stat and Ice Shard can pick off weakened Sceptile and such. However, Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Rotom-F are often better for dealing with faster threats. If you for some reason ignore my warnings about using Vanilluxe outside of hail, then Ice Beam and Frost Breath are the best bets for a STAB move. But again, you should not be using Vanilluxe outside of hail. Ever. On a final note, Vanilluxe also has access to a few support moves such as Light Screen and Magic Coat, while it can make use of Choice Specs to put a serious dent into several foes.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Vanilluxe has that high Base Power STAB move in Blizzard, it's not the most dangerous Pokemon and not impossible to stop. Slowking is an absolute terror to all Vanilluxe out there who lack Toxic or Taunt. Slowking's resistance to Blizzard, reliable recovery move in Slack Off, great special bulk, and the low Base Power of Vanilluxe's coverage moves makes it outright impossible for Vanilluxe to wear it down without Toxic. Cryogonal is in the same boat, boasting incredible Special Defense and Recover, making Toxic a must-have if it wants to break Cryogonal down. Thick Fat Pokemon with great bulk can also deal with Vanilluxe, as they essentially resist Blizzard. Miltank is the number one Pokemon when it comes to this category. As she has great bulk and Milk Drink at her disposal, Vanilluxe has a hard time wearing Miltank down. Vanilluxe's most powerful move to use against Miltank, Hidden Power Fighting, only 3HKOes her, while Miltank also has access to Heal Bell to nullify Toxic. On top of that, Miltank can set up Stealth Rock as well, which gives Vanilluxe and its Ice-type friends trouble. When it comes to other Thick Fat Pokemon, Piloswine and Hariyama are the most prominent ones. While they lack recovery outside of Rest, they can certainly take hits while hitting back hard and even phaze Vanilluxe out. Poliwrath is another bulky Water-type Pokemon who gives Vanilluxe trouble. With its great bulk and resistance to Blizzard, Poliwrath is only 3HKOed at best, making it a great answer. Poliwrath also recovers its health with Rest, while it hits hard back with Circle Throw, possibly even phazing Vanilluxe out. Specially defensive Entei is a nightmare for Vanilluxe as well. Entei with maximum Special Defense is 3HKOed at best by Hidden Power Ground, even with Stealth Rock in play, while Toxic might not help Vanilluxe either as Entei might use Rest.</p>

    <p>Offensive Entei can also give Vanilluxe trouble, especially if it does not have a Substitute up, as can the other common Fire-types in the tier. Entei, Typhlosion, Magmortar, and Emboar are only 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ground with Stealth Rock on the field. Moltres has a harder time against Vanilluxe if Stealth Rock is up, but can survive one Blizzard if Stealth Rock is not present and KO Vanilluxe in return. There are more offensive threats that take down Vanilluxe with relative ease. Jolly Gallade has no trouble taking a Blizzard, while it outspeeds and easily KOes Vanilluxe with its STAB Fighting-type moves. Escavalier, while slower than Vanilluxe, can easily take assaults from Vanilluxe, only fearing Hidden Power Fire, and break through with its STAB Iron Head while not taking any hail damage in the process as well if it has Overcoat. Cinccino easily checks Vanilluxe, as its super effective Skill Link Rock Blast will have absolutely no trouble breaking through Vanilluxe's Substitute and KO it. Klinklang is in a similar situation, as its STAB Gear Grind is a multi-hit move as well, but it must be wary of Hidden Power Ground, Fighting, and Fire. Feraligatr resists Blizzard, has Aqua Jet to break Vanilluxe's Substitutes, and can hit extremely hard in return. Also, as Vanilluxe is only a threat in hail, changing the weather will make it much easier to deal with it.</p>
  2. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Ice Cream love in RU at last.

    Anyways. What I wanted to point out was the SubProtect set. I'm not entirely sure if it should be a set at all since Glaceon exisist and is basically better than Vanilluxe in every way except Speed; Vanilluxe is a faster, but weaker, version of Glaceon.

    Don't have much experience with SubProtect except the little time I spent trying this thing out, so any comments about natures and such (or if it should even exist) are welcomed. The EVs are tailored for both natures, but can be changed a little if Timid nature becomes to sole option; it's the best EV spread for Modest nature already.

    And as always, there might be some Checks and Counters, as well as teammates, missing so please mention any if think they fit.
  3. col49

    col49 what.
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    Hiya, I actually was playing around with Vanilluxe a little bit, and while it definitely wasn't anything super extensive, there are a couple things I'd like to say if that's ok. Cryogonal in particular might want to be mentioned when talking about targets of Flash Cannon / HP Fight, since Recover makes it a much more lasting threat against Hail teams, Blizzspam in particular. HP Rock may honestly be worth mentioning as an alternative to HP Ground, trading coverage against Steels+Lanturn for the ability to 2HKO 248 HP / 68 SpD Calm Cryogonal after SR about 75% of the time while still hitting Fire-types, but idk. I don't really know about SubProtect, but I really don't see why you wouldn't push up the Speed 4 EVs, seems rather inconsequential. Escavalier is a big counter, especially SpDef variants (who take 30% tops from LO Blizzard and have Overcoat to negate Hail damage).
  4. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Totally forgot about Escavalier. Added that. Cryo was basically included in the "other Ice-types" part, but made it clearer. Also, added Hidden Power Rock, something that also slipped my mind, while I figured I might as well change the Spe EVs to max.

    Thanks. :)
  5. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
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    I wonder about Modest's slash on the SubProtect set. The only advantage it has over Glaceon is the Speed, and with Modest it doesn't take advantage of that. I think AC mention of Modest is better than a direct slash.
  6. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Well, the only reason I have it in there is because Molk was unsure, I was definitely unsure because I barely know what's important for such a set (speed or power), and DC is in the same situation as me; never used it before.

    So the reason I left it in there, and reason I even have the set to begin with, is so that QC can decide.
  7. Oglemi

    Oglemi berlin,,, pls
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    The only reason to run SubProtect Vanilluxe over Glaceon is the extra Speed (getting the chance to stall out Gallade and Kabutops, as well as kill those stupid Timid Nidoqueen), the only nature there should be Timid.

    I'd honestly place the SubProtect set before Autotomize too. Sweeping with Vanilluxe is so difficult since you can't switch into anything or force anything out, are too slow to start with, and aren't very strong even if you outspeed everything. I'd honestly use a Scarf set over Autotomize any day :/ and even then I'd use Rotom-F...
  8. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Ok, so I removed the Modest nature, and moved the set. I personally feel the Autotomize set is better, and not as weak as you say, but it doesn't really matter.
  9. DittoCrow

    DittoCrow
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    [SubProtect]

    • Say how it should be used to PP stall in tight situations
    • Move 4 should be: Toxic / Taunt
    • It can act as a faster Walrein, and Toxic can also help it beat things like Slowking, Cryogonal, Miltank, etc.
    • Taunt to stop Pokemon from setting up or healing
    • Put HP Ground in AC and mention what it hits: Lanturn, Aggron, Klinklang, etc.
    • In AC, mention how pairing it with another SubProtect user, such as Glaceon, is extremely annoying for the opponent

    [Other Options]

    • Flash Cannon to hit Piloswine and Cryogonal
    • Light Screen
    • Explosion?

    [Checks and Counters]

    • Cinccino will break through Substitute with Rock Blast or Tail Slap
    • Specially defensive Entei can wall and Roar it out
    • Feraligatr can cause some trouble since it resists Blizzard and can break Vanilluxe's Substitutes with Aqua Jet and deal a good amount of damage

    Everything else looks great!

    [QC]1/3[/QC]
  10. Molk

    Molk Crustle knocked off the opposing Rhydon's Assault Vest!
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    I talked to you about Ice Cream quite a bit on irc, and yeah this looks pretty good, nice job on this man :).

    QC approved 2/3
  11. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Thanks dudes. Made changes accordingly. Except the last moveslot slashes on SubProtect that we talked about on IRC.

    SV's final words will settle that according to DC.
  12. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    I want logs of Automotize else I'm really thinking OO. It just doesn't seem useful in the slightest.
  13. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    K, after looking at this a bit more, this looks fine as long as you mention Taunt's uses heavily in AC, and how it makes Vanilluxe unique from Glaceon.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  14. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Ok, many thanks SV.

    I'll try to write this up as soon as I can.

    EDIT: Scratch that. See below.
  15. DittoCrow

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    Requesting 2 additional checks for this because the Autotomize set is questionable.
  16. blarajan

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    [16:19] <SilentVerse> can i
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> address your reasoning then
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> 9.9
    [16:19] <blarajan> sure
    [16:19] <blarajan> do it
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> m'kay
    [16:19] <blarajan> i want just any explanation
    [16:19] <blarajan> at ALL
    [16:19] <blarajan> cause i'm on theory completely
    [16:19] <blarajan> and i'm not building a team
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> 110 special attack
    [16:19] <blarajan> around what i find a shit mon
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> is not weak
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> when paired with 120 bp STAB blizzard
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> with lo and modest
    [16:19] <SilentVerse> iirc it's actually arguably as powerful as +1 lilligant giga drain
    [16:20] <SilentVerse> probably more powerful even
    [16:20] <blarajan> maybe i'm asking too much of my sweepers
    [16:20] <blarajan> but what i'm thinking
    [16:20] <blarajan> is the main deterrence
    [16:20] <blarajan> if i had to pick one reason
    [16:20] <blarajan> as my main reason for disliking this thing on paper
    [16:20] <blarajan> is ice + hidden power is the most disappointing
    [16:20] <blarajan> type combo in history
    [16:20] <SilentVerse> eh
    [16:20] <blarajan> even for offensively viable mons such as cryogonal and maybe vanilluxe
    [16:20] <SilentVerse> ice + hidden power is a lot better than you think tbh
    [16:20] <blarajan> no
    [16:20] <blarajan> i've been playing with it
    [16:20] <blarajan> a lot
    [16:20] <SilentVerse> i'd argue that for stuff like
    [16:20] <SilentVerse> grass / rock
    [16:20] <SilentVerse> grass/ fire
    [16:20] <blarajan> and for a sweeper to be full stopped
    [16:20] <SilentVerse> is sigificantly worse
    [16:21] <blarajan> by every water in the tier
    [16:21] <blarajan> water is more important
    [16:21] <blarajan> than fire in lilligant's case
    [16:21] <blarajan> erm
    [16:21] <blarajan> steel
    [16:21] <blarajan> cause it can break through steels
    [16:21] <blarajan> but when this stupid shitty pokemon
    [16:21] <blarajan> is stopped by every water in the tier
    [16:21] <blarajan> every ice
    [16:21] <SilentVerse> vanilluxe is hardly stopped by every water tho
    [16:21] <SilentVerse> like
    [16:21] <blarajan> and escavalier
    [16:21] <SilentVerse> the most common waters are
    [16:22] <blarajan> slowking
    [16:22] <blarajan> lanturn
    [16:22] <SilentVerse> poliwrath / slowking /
    [16:22] <blarajan> kabutops
    [16:22] <SilentVerse> lanturn
    [16:22] <blarajan> poliwrath
    [16:22] <SilentVerse> kabutops and lanturn
    [16:22] <SilentVerse> actually take a lot from hp ground
    [16:22] <blarajan> kabu aqua jets
    [16:22] <blarajan> lanturn paras
    [16:22] <blarajan> slowking takes nothing
    [16:22] <blarajan> poliwrath ohkoes with circle throw
    [16:22] <blarajan> cryogonal takes nothing
    [16:22] <blarajan> every ice takes nothing
    [16:22] <blarajan> then you have
    [16:23] <blarajan> escavalier weak too
    [16:23] <blarajan> crawdaunt sets up (though it takes like 40 i think)
    [16:23] <blarajan> klinklang will eat you alive still
    [16:24] <blarajan> most of the fires
    [16:24] <SilentVerse> kabutops aqua jet
    [16:24] <SilentVerse> doesn't do enough to vanilluxe
    [16:24] <blarajan> ie entei emboar moltres
    [16:24] <blarajan> can handle it
    [16:24] <SilentVerse> hp ground ohkoes after rocks
    [16:24] <SilentVerse> entei only does 50% with espeed
    [16:24] <blarajan> priority is rampant in ru for some reason
    [16:24] <blarajan> entei lives hp ground like it's his job
    252 Atk Choice Band Entei (+Atk) ExtremeSpeed vs 0 HP/0 Def Vanilluxe: 53.36% - 62.9% (2 hits to KO)
    [16:25] <blarajan> oops
    [16:25] <blarajan> 252 SpAtk Life Orb Vanilluxe (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Ground vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Entei: 66.31% - 78.17% (2 hits to KO)
    [16:25] <blarajan> even after sr most of the time
    [16:25] <blarajan> but even if not
    [16:25] <blarajan> it's just a very difficult pokemon to use
    [16:25] <blarajan> and to set up
    [16:25] <blarajan> and to even have a slight shot at winning with
    [16:25] <blarajan> when every "bulky" poke just laughs
    [16:26] <blarajan> and i don't know why i'd use automotize in particular
    [16:26] <blarajan> over other ice types
    [16:26] <blarajan> tha'ts all
    [16:26] <blarajan> i'm not trying to undermine your opinion on the pokemon
    [16:26] <blarajan> because you have actual experience with it
    [16:26] <blarajan> but i just can't see good things so i just wanted to see it used =(
    [16:26] <blarajan> see it capitalize on that turn you suggested
    [16:26] <blarajan> and see it not shat on in ensuing turns
    [16:26] <blarajan> that's all
    [16:27] <SilentVerse> i guess that is fair
    [16:27] <SilentVerse> but like
    [16:27] <SilentVerse> i guess a big factor about vanilluxe
    [16:27] <SilentVerse> is that unlike other stuff like cryogonal, and scarf rotom-f and glaceon
    [16:27] <SilentVerse> is its sheer speed
    [16:28] <SilentVerse> yeah, it's somewhat vulnerable to priority
    [16:28] <blarajan> uh
    [16:28] <SilentVerse> but even priority isn't that bad for it
    [16:28] <blarajan> cryo and rotom-f
    [16:28] <blarajan> outrun
    [16:28] <SilentVerse> entei has a good chance to be koed after rocks and hail
    [16:28] <blarajan> modest vanilluxe
    [16:28] <blarajan> really fast
    [16:28] <SilentVerse> no after automize
    [16:28] <SilentVerse> 9.9
    [16:28] <blarajan> duh
    [16:28] <blarajan> but that's the hard part
    [16:28] <blarajan> i understand you saying
    [16:28] <blarajan> you can set up against like
    [16:28] <blarajan> nidoqueen
    [16:28] <blarajan> right
    [16:28] <SilentVerse> ofc
    [16:29] <blarajan> but when you said common teams are: queen / sceptile / entei / kabutops / escav / sigilyph
    [16:29] <blarajan> let's drop sigilyph
    [16:29] <blarajan> for uxie
    [16:29] <blarajan> and then we have
    [16:29] <blarajan> the team i won grand slam with
    [16:29] <blarajan> so we have
    [16:29] <blarajan> queen / sceptile / entei / kabutops / escav / sigilyph
    [16:29] <blarajan> the only opportunity you have to set up
    [16:29] <blarajan> erm
    [16:29] <blarajan> queen / sceptile / entei / kabutops / uxie / escav
    [16:29] <blarajan> your only opportunity at all
    [16:29] <blarajan> is on queen
    [16:29] <blarajan> cause sceptile outruns and kills
    [16:29] <blarajan> entei outruns and kills
    [16:29] <blarajan> kabutops outruns and kills
    [16:30] <blarajan> uxie outruns and twaves
    [16:30] <blarajan> and escav rapes
    [16:30] <blarajan> and if i'm rocking timid queen
    [16:30] <blarajan> i outrun and kill
    [16:30] <blarajan> my standard team
    [16:30] <blarajan> has 4/6 members outrun and kill
    [16:30] <blarajan> have one member that tanks everything and kills
    [16:30] <blarajan> and has one member that can potentially outrun
    [16:30] <blarajan> and ohko
    [16:30] <SilentVerse> vanilluxe sets up on uxie too
    [16:30] <blarajan> twave
    [16:30] <blarajan> fool
    [16:30] <SilentVerse> because of sub
    [16:30] <SilentVerse> SUB
    [16:30] <blarajan> uxie is eved
    [16:30] <SilentVerse> 9.9
    [16:30] <blarajan> to outrun
    [16:31] <blarajan> neutral 80s
    [16:31] <blarajan> outrunning kabu is important
    [16:31] <SilentVerse> ok that's fine
    [16:31] <blarajan> but neutral 80s
    [16:31] <blarajan> outrun vanilluxe too
    [16:31] <blarajan> anyways
    [16:31] <blarajan> neutral 80s
    [16:31] <blarajan> is a good benchmark
    [16:32] <blarajan> cause uxie is a good kabu check
    [16:32] <blarajan> and on that team
    [16:32] <blarajan> we have 5/6 pokes
    [16:32] <blarajan> that shit on vanilluxe
    [16:32] <blarajan> 5/6
    [16:32] <blarajan> and potentially
    [16:32] <blarajan> 6/6 if timid queen (which isn't retarded)
    [16:32] <blarajan> and let's say
    [16:32] <blarajan> you set up on nidoqueen
    [16:32] <blarajan> why do i even care
    [16:32] <blarajan> i just go to escav
    [16:32] <blarajan> but my standard team
    [16:33] <SilentVerse> are you seriously assuming that
    [16:33] <blarajan> this is the team you brought up
    [16:33] <SilentVerse> every set up sweeper has to 6-0 a team if it gets a chance to set up lol
    [16:33] <blarajan> no
    [16:33] <blarajan> but your set up sweeper
    [16:33] <blarajan> can't set up.
    [16:33] <blarajan> and even if it has any shot to set up
    [16:33] <blarajan> it is straight raped really fast
    [16:33] <blarajan> i'm only using the team
    [16:33] <blarajan> that you mentioned
    [16:33] <blarajan> you mentioned it verbatim
    [16:33] <SilentVerse> troo
    [16:33] <blarajan> (besides uxie but you had sigilyph so pyschic w/ sr > sigilyph)
    [16:34] <blarajan> nidoqueen / sceptile / uxie / escav / entei / kabutops
    [16:34] <blarajan> is significantly more threatened
    [16:34] <blarajan> by rotom-f
    [16:34] <blarajan> or glaceon
    [16:34] <SilentVerse> but i'm assuming the player
    [16:34] <blarajan> or cryogonal
    [16:34] <SilentVerse> is smart enough to actually get rid of escav first
    [16:34] <blarajan> i'm just basing my experiences against hail
    [16:34] <blarajan> and whenever i've played hail
    [16:34] <blarajan> 100% of the time
    [16:34] <blarajan> i've been scared of that rotom-f
    [16:34] <SilentVerse> considering how easy it is to lure out escav with hail
    [16:34] <blarajan> or that glaceon in the back
    [16:34] <blarajan> we're not going to be making assumptions based on the skill of the player
    [16:34] <blarajan> because i can easily say
    [16:34] <blarajan> "well i can play safe with escav"
    [16:34] <blarajan> that's a stupid back and forth seesaw argument
    [16:35] <blarajan> but what we can assume is
    [16:35] <blarajan> in the team that you mentioned
    [16:35] <SilentVerse> then you're going to lose
    [16:35] <blarajan> vanilluxe is completely shat on
    [16:35] <SilentVerse> because that team
    [16:35] <SilentVerse> does not have the defensive backbone
    [16:35] <SilentVerse> to survive the blizzards from other team members lol
    [16:35] <blarajan> that's because unlike vanilluxe
    [16:35] <blarajan> the other team members are scary.
    [16:35] <blarajan> and that's assuming
    [16:35] <blarajan> you can set up vanilluxe at all
    [16:36] <blarajan> which i really don't think yo ucan
    [16:36] <blarajan> and even if you had a free turn
    [16:36] <blarajan> against nidoqueen
    [16:36] <blarajan> what would you rather do
    [16:36] <blarajan> use a shitty mon like vanilluxe
    [16:36] <blarajan> or actually get the spin off w/ cryo
    [16:36] <blarajan> set up a sub with glaceon
    [16:36] <blarajan> or be a fucking boss with rotom
    [16:36] <blarajan> set up rocks with piloswine
    [16:36] <blarajan> or do anything useful
    [16:36] <blarajan> at all
    [16:36] <SilentVerse> ugh, i don't think i'm going to convince you
    [16:36] <blarajan> you won't
    [16:36] <blarajan> because
    [16:36] <SilentVerse> because i think you're just
    [16:36] <blarajan> : no logs
    [16:37] * blarajan want
    [16:37] <SilentVerse> thinking that vanilluxe sucks too much to do anything :(
    [16:37] <blarajan> before a boost, it does
    [16:37] <blarajan> you said it sweeps offensive teams
    [16:37] <blarajan> but whe nthe entire team outruns vanilluxe
    [16:37] <blarajan> it can't set up
    [16:37] <blarajan> and when its one turn to set up is squandered
    [16:37] <blarajan> by the priority and escav in the offensive team
    [16:37] <blarajan> it's still useless
    [16:37] <blarajan> and when the defensive team has shit like slowking that rapes it in its entirety
    [16:38] <blarajan> i can't see vanilluxe playing well


    tl;dr i think automotize is a stupid stealth rock weak mono ice sweeper with bad coverage that can't break through defensive teams and isn't fast enough to set up on offensive teams; even if it sets up, however, i think the rampant priority in the tier along with the prevalence of pokemon such as entei and escavalier make its life hell. i cannot see automotize performing well, and i want logs.
  17. Honko

    Honko
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    I agree w/ the sentiments of user blarajan. It looks pretty mediocre so I'm not comfortable approving it on theory.
  18. Hot N Cold

    Hot N Cold PLUTO
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    On the set Autotomize add in AC, Petaya Berry like another possible option since is useful when you're running this around Substitute + Autotomize, recovering health in each turn because Ice Body (only used on hail teams!) while remain the offensive capabilities.

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved 4/5
  19. blarajan

    blarajan holla ladies #£14000 #bling #sparkle #bitchesonmydick
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    Nobody approve Automotize until there are logs in this thread showing it.
  20. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    I looked at Petaya Berry before posting this, but I didn't add it in because it didn't makes much of a difference. But I guess if you can keep it on the field, it works well with Ice Body and Substitute as you say. I'll add it.

    Thanks for the check.

    EDIT:

    Ok, I guess I'll hold on from adding it right now.
  21. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Ok, so this is now written and ready for checks.

    I'll get Miltank done ASAP, I've basically written half of it already.
  22. jumpluff

    jumpluff princess
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    I might suggest breaking down the Checks & Counters section into multiple paragraphs for easier reading and better flow, divided logically by types of Pokémon~ Good writing for such a bad Pokémon, either way. >:P

    [gp]1/2~[/gp]
  23. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Thanks pluff. :3

    Ready for the second one.
  24. MysticNova

    MysticNova

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    AM Check (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>Yum, yum, ice cream. What? What do you mean, "no, it's a Pokemon"? Oh, right, the analysis. With Snow Warning being allowed in RU, there is finally a reason to use Vanilluxe. When it comes to Vanilluxe's stats, they are pretty solid overall. A great base 110 Special Attack is the first thing that pops out, which allows Vanilluxe to heavily damage its opponents with its STAB Blizzard. Vanilluxe also has good overall defenses and a good Speed stat for the role it plays, despite missing out on base 80 Speed Pokemon by two points. ItVanilluxe also has a surprisingly good Attack stat, although it has no use for it. Other than that, Vanilluxe has barely anything else going for it. Vanilluxe's movepool is as stale as its flavor, as it mostly consists of Ice-type moves, and status moves such as Autotomize and Taunt. So what does Vanilluxe do? Like Glaceon, it uses a Substitute + Protect set to slowly wear down the opponent with the hail's constant damage and its offensive moves. However, as you might have guessed, Vanilluxe does face stiff competition from Glaceon, so one must play to what Vanilluxe has over it: a higher Speed stat. With its higher Speed stat, Vanilluxe can actually outspeed key offensive threats,(comma) such as Nidoqueen, Adamant Kabutops, and Adamant Gallade, something Glaceon just can't do (it can tie with Modest Nidoqueen at best). And as stated before, Vanilluxe has access to Taunt, which gives it an edge over Glaceon when facing Pokemon such as Slowking. This sums up Vanilluxe; it' is basically a one-trick pony, but faces stiff competition as an Ice-type on a hail team from not only Glaceon, but almost all relevant Ice-types in the tier. And one last thing: never use Vanilluxe outside of hail, as there are much better Pokemon for that in the tier.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubProtect
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Protect
    move 3: Blizzard
    move 4: Toxic / Hidden Power Ground
    items: Leftovers
    ability: Ice Body
    nature: Timid
    evs: 24 HP / 232 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Like most Ice Body Pokemon, Vanilluxe dons the SubProtect role, and does it with success. Despite the competition it receives from Glaceon, Vanilluxe still sees use due to its greater Speed, which allows it to outspeed key threats,(comma) such as Nidoqueen, Adamant Kabutops, and Adamant Gallade, which Glaceon fails to do. The strategy behind this set is to wear down the opponent with the residual damage hail brings, while being protected fromlocking incoming attacks bywith Substitute and Protect. Blizzard is used as the main STAB move, as in hail it gains perfect accuracy in hail, while it deals heavy damage thanks to its high Base Power and Vanilluxe's great Special Attack. With the combined damage from Blizzard and hail, wearing down the opponent will be rather quick and easy. However, some special walls, most notably Slowking and Cryogonal, gives this set trouble, as they resist Blizzard and have access to recovery moves. Toxic makes these Pokemon less of an issue, as it makes it a lot harder for them to stay alive. However, Hidden Power Ground is a good option if Vanilluxe has teammates that can cover the aforementioned threats, as it gives Vanilluxe super effective coverage against Pokemon such as Lanturn, Qwilfish, and various Fire- and Steel-types. Hidden Power Ground is especially useful against Qwilfish, as it is immune to Toxic.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Taunt is a great third option for the last slot. Taunt prevents Pokemon such as Slowking and Cryogonal from recovering their health with their respective recovery moves, while it also and stops any other status moves coming Vanilluxe's way, such as Stealth Rock and Spikes. Furthermore, Taunt is another thing thatway to sets Vanilluxe apart from Glaceon. The EVs are tailored so that Vanilluxe reaches a perfect HP number for this kind of set (I don't think this part is necessary because you go over this in more detail later). There are other types of Hidden Power that can be used over Hidden Power Ground as well. Hidden Power Fighting allows Vanilluxe to hit other Ice-types, more specifically Rotom-F, Piloswine, and Cryogonal, who allall of whom at least resist Vanilluxe's offensive moves, making them somewhat easier to deal with. Hidden Power Fighting also hits Miltank for super effective damage, but is only a 3HKO with Stealth Rock. However, Vanilluxe loses its super effective coverage on Lanturn, Qwilfish, and the Fire-types. This makes Hidden Power Rock another viable option, as it allows Vanilluxe to hit Fire-type Pokemon for super effective damage, while still hitting opposing Ice-types, except for Piloswine, for super effective damage as well, except for Piloswine. Hidden Power Ground is often the better choice, but one needs to mix and match to make the type fit the team's needs. This might sound complicated, but it is not. With 24 EVs put into HP, Vanilluxe recovers the same amount of HP it spent making a Substitute in two turns with Ice Body and Leftovers combined. This means that Vanilluxe can use Substitute, then Protect on the next turn, and be at full HP at the beginning on the turn after that. The rest of the EVs are pumped into Speed and Special Attack to give Vanilluxe as much offensive power as possible; keep in mind that max Speed is a necessity to allow Vanilluxe to outspeed as many threats as it can. A Timid nature builds on that even further, as it allows Vanilluxe to outspeed Adamant Gallade and Adamant Kabutops, but a Modest nature can be used for more power, although is not advised as Vanilluxe needs the Speed more.</p>

    <p>Besides Snover, who is a must have, there are several Pokemon in the tier that make great teammates for Vanilluxe. Poilwrath pairs up greatwell with Vanilluxe due to its great defensive typing and stats. Offensive juggernauts,(comma) such as Aggron, Durant, Absol, Escavalier, Entei, and Kabutops, who all give Vanilluxe trouble in one way or another, have huge issues with getting past Poliwrath due to it resisting their STAB moves and its great defense. Miltank is another excellent partner due to its ability to take on opposing Fire- and Ice-type Pokemon, courtesy of Thick Fat. Escavalier makes an effective teammate for its ability to deal with opposing hail teams as well due to its Steel typing, while just being a powerful offensive presence in general; it also has access to Overcoat, which means Escavalier isn't bothered by hail. Escavalier does add an extra Fire-weak Pokemon to your team, but pairing it and Vanilluxe with Pokemon such as Miltank and Poliwrath will cover it up nicely. As Vanilluxe is weak to Fighting-type moves as well, Pokemon such as Slowking and Uxie make for great teammates, not only due to their typing but also their general bulk. Slowking resists Fire-type moves as well, while Uxie brings many useful support moves to the table. Spiritomb gives Fighting-types, most notably Gallade, huge trouble as well and can dispose of most of them easily; the sole exception being, basically,is Hariyama. Believe or not, Glaceon also pairs well with Vanilluxe. The two can successively wear down whole teams by deploying the same strategy andwhile covering different threats with different moves. While not 100% necessary, Rapid Spin support and entry hazards helps. When it comes to Rapid Spin support, Cryogonal is the best choice due to its Ice-typing, while Kabutops works great as well due to its resistance to Fire that Vanilluxe is weak to. However, both adds onto the weaknesses Vanilluxe has, so pairing them with one of the aforementioned Pokemon is needed. Entry hazards are usually best provided by Miltank and Uxie when it comes to Stealth Rock, and Qwilfish is the absolute best choice for a Spikes user due to its typing.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Flash Cannon is the most usable offensive moalternative that Vanilluxe can use. It allows Vanilluxe to hit opposing Ice-types super effectively, bar Walrein and co., but the coverage it provides besides that is basically nonexistent, making it highly situational. Signal Beam is similar to Flash Cannon, except it hits Slowking for super effective damage. However, despite that fact, it can only 4HKO Slowking at best, making Toxic and Taunt much better options against Slowking. Hidden Power Fire can be used to hit an unsuspecting Escavalier hard, while also hitting other Ice-types, bar Piloswine and the Water/ / Ice types, for super effective damage. However, the Hidden Power types mentioned earlier in the analysis are often far more favorable. Vanilluxe can pull off a sweeping role with Autotomize to doublinge its Speed, and while using Blizzard, Hidden Power Ground, and either Flash Cannon or Substitute together with Life Orb and a Modest nature to be as threatening as possible; Petaya Berry is an option over Life Orb as well. However, due to the low base power and small range of coverage its moves brings, Autotomize Vanilluxe is too situational to be worth it; it can pull off a sweep, but it won'ill not happen that often. Ice Shard is an gimmicky option, but Vanilluxe has a decent Attack stat and Ice Shard can pick off weakened Sceptile and such. However, Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Rotom-F are oftenusually better for dealing with faster threats. If you for some reason ignore my warnings about not using Vanilluxe outside of hail, then Ice Beam and Frost Breath are the best bets for a STAB move. But again, you shouldn' not be using Vanilluxe outside of hail. Ever. On a final note, Vanilluxe also has access to a few support moves such as Light Screen and Magic Coat, while it can make use of Choice Specs to put a serious dent into several foes.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>While Vanilluxe has that high base power STAB move in Blizzard, it' is not the most dangerous Pokemon and not impossible to stop. Slowking is an absolute terror to all Vanilluxe out there who lack Toxic or Taunt. Slowking's resistance to Blizzard, reliable recovery move in Slack Off, great special bulk, and the low base power of Vanilluxe's coverage moves makes it outright impossible for Vanilluxe to wear it down without Toxic. Cryogonal is in the same boat, boasting incredible Special Defense and Recover, making Toxic a must-have if it wants to break Cryogonal down. Thick Fat Pokemon with great bulk can also deal with Vanilluxe, as it makes them resist Blizzard. Miltank is the number one Pokemon when it comes to this category. As she has great bulk and Milk Drink at her disposal, Vanilluxe has a hard time wearing Miltank down. Vanilluxe's most powerful move to use against Miltank, Hidden Power Fighting, only 3HKOes her, while Miltank also has acess to Heal Bell to nullify Toxic. On top of that, Miltank can set up Stealth Rock as well, which gives Vanilluxe and its Ice-type friends trouble. When it comes to other Thick Fat Pokemon, Piloswine and Hariyama are the most prominent ones. While they lack recovery outside of Rest, they can certainly take hits, while hitting back hard and can even phazinge Vanilluxe out. Poliwrath is another bulky Water-type Pokemon who gives Vanilluxe trouble. With its great bulk and resistance to Blizzard, Poliwrath is only 3HKOed at best, making it a great answer to Vanilluxe. Poliwrath also recovers its health with Rest, while it hits hard backback hard with Circle Throw, possibly even phazing Vanilluxe out. Specially defensive Entei is a nightmare for Vanilluxe as well. Entei with absolute maxmaximum Special Defense is 3HKOed at best by Hidden Power Ground, even with Stealth Rock in play, while Toxic might not help Vanilluxe either as Entei might use Rest.</p>

    <p>Offensive Entei can also give Vanilluxe trouble, especially if it doesn' not have a Substitute up, as can the other common Fire-types in the tier. Entei, Typhlosion, Magmortar, and Emboar are only 2HKOed by Hidden Power Ground with Stealth Rock on the field. Moltres has a harder time against Vanilluxe if Stealth Rock is up, but can survive one Blizzard if Stealth Rock isn' not present and KO Vanilluxe in return. There are more offensive threats that take down Vanilluxe with relative ease. Jolly Gallade has no trouble taking a Blizzard, while it outspeeds and easily KOes Vanilluxe with its STAB Fighting-type moves. Escavalier, while slower than Vanilluxe, can easily take assuaaults from Vanilluxe, only fearing Hidden Power Fire, and break through with its STAB Iron Head while not taking any hail damage in the process as well if it has Overcoat. Cinccino easily checks Vanilluxe, as its super effective Skill Link Rock Blast will have absolutely no trouble breaking through Vanilluxe's Substitute and KOing it. Klinklang is in a similar situation, as its STAB Gear Grind is a multi-hit move as well, but it must be wary of Hidden Power Ground, Fighting, orand Fire. Feraligatr resists Blizzard, has Aqua Jet to break Vanilluxe's Substitutes, and can (?)extremely hard in return. Also, as Vanilluxe is only a threat in hail, changing the weather will make it much easier to deal with it.</p>
  25. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Ok, I made all necessary changes, and it was a good check, so:

    [GP]2/2[/GP]

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