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Vaporeon (BW2 Revamp) [QC 0/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by papai noel, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. papai noel

    papai noel
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    [​IMG]

    Vaporeon ~ mermaid


    [Overview]
    • Huge HP stat and Wish;
    • Also pretty high Special Attack stat and Special Defense stat;
    • Two great abilities in Water Absorb and Hydration.
    • BW2 brought new threats that really give Vaporeon a hard time, such as Techniciam Breloom and Thundurus-T;
    • Entry hazards hinder its effectiveness;
    • Amazing on Baton Chains. Seriously.

    [SET]
    name: Wish Support
    move 1: Scald
    move 2: Wish
    move 3: Protect
    move 4: Roar / Toxic / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Huge HP stat means that Vaporeon can easily support your team with Wish;
    • With a defensive EV spread, Vaporeon can tank lots of hits from opposing Pokemon;
    • Scald is a great STAB move that has a 30% chance of burning opponents;
    • Protect is used to scout the opponent’s moves and to give you a free recovery turn with Wish;
    • There are several options on the last slot. Toxic is able to stall out common walls with the help of Protect and Wish. Roar is a nice option to phaze out setup sweepers such as SubDD Gyarados as well as phazing out counters such as Ferrothorn (especially good with entry hazards support). You can also run Ice Beam to deal with Dragon-types and Grass-types, which resist Scald.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • EV spread is standard, maximizing Vaporeon’s bulk;
    • Ferrothorn is a nice teammate because it can lay down hazards, tank Electric and Grass-type moves aimed at Vaporeon, and it appreciates Wish recovery;
    • Forretress is also a nice teammate since it can set up hazards while rapid spinning, which is something Vaporeon likes a lot;
    • Haze can be used on the last slot to nullify stat boosts, but Roar is generally superior;
    • You can use both abilities. Water Absorb allows it to switch into common Water-type moves and recover 25% of its HP while Hydration gives you a nice status immunity. You can run Rest if using Hydration under Rain.

    [SET]
    name: Hydration Tank
    move 1: Hydro Pump / Surf
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Ice Beam
    move 4: Hidden Power Grass
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Hydration
    nature: Modest
    evs: 212 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Great bulk in 130/60/95, which means it can still tank hits while hitting really hard;
    • Overlooked 110 Special Attack stat, which is more than enough to break through common Pokemon in the OU metagame;
    • 100% recovery in Rest under Rain;
    • The first slot goes to the STAB move preferred. Hydro Pump packs a lot of power – it can even 2HKO Blissey under Rain with some prior damage - while Surf is a more reliable option that still packs a punch;
    • Ice Beam is a great coverage move that hits Grass-types and Dragon-types for super effective damage;
    • Hidden Power Grass is good to hit bulky Water-types such as Jellicent and Rotom-W for super effective damage;
    • Life Orb gives you a great power boost.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • EV spread is standard. Max Special Attack and enough Speed EVs to outspeed base 70s without investments. The rest is thrown into Defense to maximize Vaporeon’s bulk.
    • Drizzle support is completely necessary to this set and it won’t work without it.
    • You can use Scald over your STAB moves, but the loss of power is really noticeable.
    • Ferrothorn is a nice teammate because it takes Grass and Electric-type moves aimed at Vaporeon and Politoed and it lays down hazards;
    • Needs offensive support to break through some walls, such as Ferrothorn. Breloom deserves a special mention as a teammate, since it can defeat Ferrothorn and bulky Water-types;
    • Pretty slow, so Thunder Wave support from teammates is nice.

    [SET]
    name: Baton Pass
    move 1: Baton Pass
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Acid Armor / Wish
    move 4: Roar / Scald
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Water Absorb
    nature: Bold
    evs: 244 HP / 136 Def / 128 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Amazing member of Baton Pass teams;
    • Can pass huge Substitutes to its teammates;
    • Acid Armor is the preferred option because it gives Vaporeon an amazing boosting move in Defense;
    • Wish allows Vaporeon to create more Substitutes;
    • Roar is a great option on the last slot to phaze out phazers and setup sweepers that could give your team trouble;
    • Scald is a nice STAB move that deals consistent damage to most Taunt users.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • EVs maximize its bulk and make it outspeed positive-natured base 130s with +2 Speed;
    • Work Up is a nice option on the third slot, but generally Baton Pass teams have better Pokemon to pass Attack / Special Attack boosts;
    • Vaporeon can also use Aqua Ring over Wish or Acid Armor to slowly recover its (and its teammates) HP;
    • Nice teammates are those who work nicely in baton chains. This includes Gliscor, Celebi, Jirachi, Ninjask, Mr.Mime, Espeon, etc.
    [SET]
    name: Boosting Sweeper (?)
    move 1: Work Up
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
    move 4: Rest
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Hydration
    nature: Bold
    evs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Great boosting sweeper, just set up with Work Up and recover with Rest and you can turn games around.
    • Unlike other set up sweepers, it doesn't have to worry about status and it has 100% recovery.
    • Needs rain. Completely.
    • Work Up is the crux of this set. Use it to get Vaporeon's Special Attack to high levels and then you sweep.
    • Scald is the main STAB and is really helpful to get burns on physical attackers.
    • Ice Beam is for Grass-types such as Celebi that otherwise defeat you one-on-one, but you can also use Hidden Power Grass to get bulky Water-types such as Rotom-W.
    • Rest recovers your HP in 100% when under rain.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Needs rain. Completely needs rain.
    • Seriously rain.
    • You can run Surf or Hydro Pump for power, but you're not getting any important KOs with them.
    • EV spread to maximize bulk while outspeeding base 70's.
    • Hidden Power Electric?
    • Hydration is completely necessary to recover your HP. This set doesn't work with Water Absorb.
    • Thunder Wave support is appreciated. Hazards too. Therefore, partners such as Jirachi, Celebi, and Ferrothorn are great

    [SET]
    name: Hydration Wall
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Scald
    move 3: Roar / Wish
    move 4: Toxic / Ice Beam
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Hydration
    nature: Bold
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • 100% recovery move is something that every wall would love to have;
    • Good and balanced defenses;
    • Rest is completely needed on the set because it gives Vaporeon a 100% recovery move under Rain;
    • Scald is a nice STAB that cripple physical attackers;
    • The choice between Roar and Wish depends on what your team needs the most. Roar is for phazing while Wish can recover a teammates health;
    • Toxic is generally the preferred option in the last slot to defeat walls one-on-one, such as Blissey and Chansey, but you can run Ice Beam to hit common Ice-type weak Pokémon found in the tier, such as Dragonite, Garchomp, and Landorus.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Can wall almost every Pokemon that fails to KO it since it has 100% recovery;
    • Surf can be used over Scald for the power boost;
    • Completely Rain dependent, it just simply doesn't work without it;
    • Hazards support is great especially if running Roar;
    • Nice teammates are Virizion, Jirachi, and Ferrothorn.

    [Other Options]

    • Can use Surf over Scald on every set bar Hydration Tank, but the power difference isn't really big enough to be worth it;
    • Can run Hidden Power Fire or Hidden Power Electric. The former is a nice option to defeat Ferrothorn one-on-one while the latter can be used to hit Water-types and to get a surprise KO on Gyarados;
    • A boosting set with Hydration under Rain with Work Up, Rest, Scald, and Ice Beam can be really effective as a slow boosting sweeper;
    • Choice Specs because it’s strong.
    • Curse + Rest with Hydration under Rain.

    [Checks and Counters]
    • Ferrothorn completely shuts down Vaporeon. It sets up on it while recovering HP with Leech Seed;
    • Most Grass-types can easily switch into Vaporeon and KO it. Breloom doesn’t fear Scald burns due to Poison Heal, Virizion usually runs CM variants, Celebi and Shaymin have Natural Cure, etc.
    • Venusaur is usually used on sun teams, which means Scald will do a pitfull damage to it while it can hit back hard with Giga Drain or set up with Growth.
    • If Vaporeon is not running Hydration, Toxic can severely cripple it;
    • Common setup sweepers can dance in Vaporeon’s face if it’s not running Roar. Conkeldurr, Lati@s, Jirachi, Toxicroak and Reuniclus are some examples;
    • Stuff that hit really hard before Vaporeon can move are great checks. Thundurus-T and Techniciam Breloom, for example;
    • Rotom-W.
  2. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    I am here finally. As i told you on irc we try to avoid revamping analyses if we can help it. So here is what we will do... You can C/P the current analysis, and write your changes in bold (and mention your "removals" in brackets). If they're acceptable, we can integrate them onsite without any trouble. Otherwise QC will handle the SCMS changes. Is this fine with you?
  3. papai noel

    papai noel
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    Sure, but I honestly don't wanna keep the set order that is currently on site, so it would be good if you (or any other QC member) could take a look at it to tell me if I should keep it or not when writing this.
  4. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    We can also change the set order very easily via the SCMS. I have to say that I agree with you about the set order.

    The analysis should be written in such a way that the order of the sets can be changed without any change to the text. So basically you don't need to worry about set order at all.
  5. papai noel

    papai noel
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    Can I remove the Hydration Tank set from the analysis? I honestly see no point in using it over other bulky Water-types such as Jellicent (which can spinblock), Tentacruel (which can spin), or even Politoed (which summons Rain). On a metagame filled with severely powerful threats I honestly don't see any reason to run it.

    EDIT: Actually now that I read the full analysis I changed my mind. I believe Vaporeon deserves a full revamp. There are lots of parts in the analysis that are just too "early BW", such as "With Wish's new mechanics" and "who can hit Vaporeon hard in this new generation such as Virizion". I wouldn't mind doing a full revamp and I think Vaporeon should get one, sorry if I messed up something :|
  6. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    No, I think it's good enough. Honestly, all of the vaporeon sets are pretty much useless at the moment (except maybe baton pass, but baton passers aren't even meant to have analyses!) Vaporeon is an OU pokemon. We can't not have an analysis for it.

    Oh, it's also worth mentioning that a wall that just sits there like hydration wall vaporeon can actually be good in a metagame like this. People stop running boosting moves on a lot of their pokemon, and as such often get completely walled. And given how offensive their team is likely to be, they'll likely have nothing to stall vaporeon out with either. CB Terrak is not even a problem. Its set needs to stay too.

    If you don't like it, feel free not to make changes to it. Up to you.
  7. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

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    There needs to be some sort of Hydration defensive Vap too. Scald / Roar / Wish / Rest on rain stall is just HELL for people to deal with and it is the PERFECT partner for both Forretress and Ferrothorn as hazard layers.

    The Hydration tank doesn't necessarily need Life Orb. I would probably slash Leftovers as well due to Vaporeon's speed.

    Baton Pass Vap deserves Surf as the slash, not Scald. Baton Pass as ZERO time to be fucking around with Scald and burns. The only time Vaporeon will attack is when it is trying to kill something with the +SpA boosts it receives in the chain. At that point Scald is just a weaker move. 90% of BP Vaps have Acid Armor anyway, so what the hell is the point of trying to burn anything?
  8. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Yeah please add the Hydration Wall set that Jimera0 wrote, it is decent.
  9. papai noel

    papai noel
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    Added Hydration Wall. Are we going to do a regular revamp or should I c/p the on site analysis to do some changes?

    EDIT: After talking to shrang on IRC we've changed a lot of stuff on the current analysis. Wish Support is the first set listed because it's not Rain dependent and it actually works better than the others. We removed the ability tag from this set because Hydration can work as well, giving you status immunity and also the option to run Rest under Rain (also, we were thinking about fusing Wish Support and Hydration Wall into one set, so please tell me if you like this idea or not). We added Curse + Rest in OO, it's kind of gimmicky but there's no big deal in mentioning it.
  10. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Just some updating

    -
    From the Wish Support set, can you move Roar to first slash, and Toxic to second slash please. Both have merit, but being able to phaze out pokemon like perhapes Lum DD Dragonite and shit is useful. Vaporeon is also often used on balanced / defesive teams which often have heavy hazard support which Roar can also abuse.

    -Secondly can you update the Checks / Counters section a little bit. Virizion and Shaymin (and Breloom with Poison Heal) are relatively rare so im not sure if they need to have a big mention. Maybe add Venusaur which usually does a great job forcing out Vaporeon (especially as its commonly used on sun teams which cuts Scald's power) and is a good deal more common than Shaymin.

    -Don't merge the Hydration Wall / Wish Support sets. It gets far too slashy, and the sets do play slightly differently (since one set trades the ability to pass wishes to teammates, while the other has a better healing move and no weakness to Toxic which is a pretty big deal.
  11. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn
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    where is the defensive hydration sweeper set?

    Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spd
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    - Work Up
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam / Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Rest

    this thing wins games
  12. papai noel

    papai noel
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    Done. I won't merge the two sets, but should I put back the ability tag on the first one?

    EDIT: Will add the set tomorrow because I'm on the phone :_:
  13. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Might want to check with others for this but my personal opinion is no. Water Absorb is a really nice ability for Vaporeon, but on the other hand if Vaporeon is on a rain team, that status immunity is huge. Personally, both are equally good abilities but other QC members might value one ability better than the other. Need more QC input here.
  14. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    We've been back and forth with Vaporeon in regards to whether it should receive a revamped or not, and unfortunately, we've decided to update Vaporeon via SCMS. It doesn't need significant changes, because nothing really changed for Vaporeon. Sorry.

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