Vaporeon (Hydration Tank)

AccidentalGreed

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#1
Several notable people and I discussed Vaporeon's performance in Drizzle, and I became convinced that it would make a good offensive tank because of its immunity to status. Not entirely sure about Choice Specs, but w/e because it had one last generation, and it 2HKOes Ferrothorn with Specs Hydro Pump (nearly the same for Life Orb).

Also, credits to Panamaxis for making this set semi-official in the previous Vaporeon thread.

Status: Done

QC Approvals (3/3): (PK Gaming) (Iconic) (Setsuna)

GP Approvals (2/2): (Calm Pokemaster) (Tobes)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I thought cats hated water...or is this a dog?

[SET]
name: Hydration Tank
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Rest
item: Life Orb
ability: Hydration
nature: Modest
evs: 212 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Though it is mostly played defensively, an offensive Vaporeon isn't a completely irrational idea due to its often overlooked base 110 Special Attack and usable attacking movepool. This generation, Vaporeon can reach the peak of its offensive prowess thanks to the advent of permanent rain (which boosts the power of Vaporeon's Water-type moves) in OU and its brand new ability: Hydration. In spite of some redundancy with Drizzle Politoed, who shares the same typing, Vaporeon becomes an incredibly powerful and annoying force in the rain with the added ability to recover from low health instantly and ignore status completely through Hydration and Rest. The strategy is simple: plow through any opponents in the way, using Rest when necessary. To avoid becoming death fodder for the next target, the use of Rest should be well-timed, such as when Vaporeon's health dips below 50%, or before KOing the opposing Pokemon.</p>

<p>Vaporeon's main weapon is its chosen Water-type move due to the stacked boosts it receives from STAB, Life Orb, and the rain. Hydro Pump would be the preferred choice for raw power, coming close to 2HKOing the likes of Blissey, and even Ferrothorn with some entry hazard damage. If Hydro Pump's low accuracy and PP do not appeal to you, Surf is a reliable alternative at the cost of power. The other attacking moves should only be used in certain situations; Ice Beam hits Dragon- and Grass-type foes super effectively, while Hidden Power Grass provides coverage against opposing Water-types, especially Gastrodon and Quagsire. Speaking of which, other Hidden Powers are less useful due to the popularity of said Pokemon (and Gastrodon's ability to wall rain-based teams), so replacing Hidden Power Grass is not recommended.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>If it wasn't apparent enough already, Vaporeon requires as much power as possible, so first, maximize its Special Attack with 252 EVs and a Modest nature. 44 EVs are put in Speed to get the jump on base 70s that don't invest in Speed, and the rest are poured into Defense to improve Vaporeon's tanking capabilities. If maximum Special Attack seems excessive, some EVs can be transferred from Special Attack to either Defense or Speed for more bulk or to outspeed certain Pokemon, respectively. The reason that HP isn't touched is because Vaporeon has high HP as it is, and its average Defense would be a weakness otherwise.</p>

<p>As previously stated, Vaporeon needs to be paired up with Drizzle Politoed to maximize its potential. Doing so, however, results in an unfortunate typing overlap and overall redundancy. If you still wish to use Vaporeon, Politoed should cater to a defensive role. At this point, defensive synergy is desperately needed to cover up your team's Electric- and Grass-type weaknesses. You may consider using Dragon- or Grass-type teammates of your own to rectify this issue. For example, Ferrothorn stands out for its ability to provide entry hazards and paralysis support, both of which are beneficial for the power- and speed-starved Vaporeon. For Dragon-types, Dragonite and Latios are good choices, capable of sponging strikes aimed at Vaporeon and replying with their respective wallbreaking attacks. Additionally, as Vaporeon can lure and take out counters to rain (Blissey, Gastrodon, and weather inducers, to name a few), Pokemon that can take advantage of their absence are highly recommended too.</p>

<p>Vaporeon itself has a few problems bypassing some dedicated walls, especially Ferrothorn (if Vaporeon can't manage to 2HKO) and opposing bulky Water-types. Offensive support is necessary to defeat what Vaporeon can't. Therefore, employing teammates with Fighting- or Electric-type attacks can fend off these threats. On a Drizzle team, Toxicroak, Breloom, and Thunder users should naturally suffice. Additionally, Toxic Spikes support, preferably from Tentacruel or Roserade, allows Vaporeon to gain more KOs and bring down defensive Pokemon simply by using Rest and attacking constantly.</p>
 
#2
I don't really like this set because the thing about offensive Vaporeon is that its best asset is the surprise factor, which Choice Specs capitalizes on better. You may not be able to switch moves, but you also don't get that nasty LO recoil which takes away from Vaporeon's decent bulk. Vaporeon also doesn't really have the speed to use Rest in time before being revenge killed, while Natural Cure Shaymin for instance, does.

I'll talk it over with QC people but I don't really have high hopes.
 

AccidentalGreed

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#3
I don't really like this set because the thing about offensive Vaporeon is that its best asset is the surprise factor, which Choice Specs capitalizes on better. You may not be able to switch moves, but you also don't get that nasty LO recoil which takes away from Vaporeon's decent bulk. Vaporeon also doesn't really have the speed to use Rest in time before being revenge killed, while Natural Cure Shaymin for instance, does.

I'll talk it over with QC people but I don't really have high hopes.
I can either rework this into a Choice Specs set or make a separate one in this thread, if you or the other QC members wish.

And yeah, I can see we're you're coming from. Since this set relies on surprise factor and the Life Orb, it'd be hard to maintain Vaporeon on the battlefield. I personally find its ability to shrug off status and hit hard appealing on a Drizzle team, but, again, it's the QC's call.
 
#4
I personally really like this set. I'll be using it and it'll be great on Drizzle teams. You can hit hard and even heal... that's great.
 
#5
IMO Specs is really better than LO in terms of an offensive set. Switching moves looks nice on paper but in all honesty if you're using an offensive set Vaporeon needs all the power it can get, which Choice Specs really provides. LO just makes Vaporeon weaker and it doesn't have the Speed to abuse a Rest relieved in the same turn unless it's very bulky unlike the set that's up there right now.
 
#6
Or you may just mention both Specs and Life Orb and write main advantages/disadvantages of those items. Life Orb isn't bad pick, especially when you can heal damage with Hydration Rest, but Specs is IMO better mostly because how unexpected it is and water alone have great coverage to begin with, so you don't need to predict too much against opponents (especially with team preview). And secured 2HKO on Ferrothorn is good reason enough to slash Choice Specs first. But I would still leave Life Orb, as he can still heal this recoil, while freedom in choosing may fit your team more (especially if it's more offensive one, giving free turns for some dangerous sweepers/wallbreakers may be fatal on frailer teams). In other words IMO just slash in Choice Specs as a first option and still leave Life Orb as a second option.
 
#7
I think that this set has a lot of potential especially since you can heal off damage with Hydration Rest and everything. Honestly though, I don't think this would be that great of an offensive set while you can use the Choice Specs set. Sure healing with Hydration Rest is great, but you won't exactly accomplish as much since Vaporeon's Speed leaves a lot to be desired and the proposed set doesn't really give it that much bulk, so healing with Hydration Rest would be sort of difficult to do at times. A lot of time would be spent on trying to heal Vaporeon instead of trying to be offensive. A Choice Specs set would basically sort of force Vaporeon to be offensive, so yeah.
 

AccidentalGreed

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#8
Sure, I'll just convert this thread for two sets like I proposed. Choice Specs should pass judgement, so I'm really waiting for opinions on Hydration + Rest.

EDIT: That being said, I find Choice Specs to be more substantial than I thought in any weather, as explained in the above sets.
 
#9
Had good success with the LO set, though I upped the speed to 206 to beat slower versions of Dragonite and Gyarados, handy since both can be annoying to a rain team. Hydro pump in the rain actually hits standard resttalk gyara for 31.2% - 37.1%, and being able to rest before he sleep-talk-dragon-tails you out is a huge plus. Didn't feel like I missed the bulk too much, Vappy was still incredibly hard to OHKO, but with the power of LO could OHKO a lot in return.

It was a lot of Hydro Pump spam, which demolishes so much, so at first it felt like a strictly inferior set to the specs one. But when very common bulky waters like Jellicent, Gastrodon, other Vaporeon switched in, it was great to be able to heal, attack, and not worry about Toxic at all. I found that most things willing to switch into one of Vappys Hydro Pumps also gave me a free turn to Rest, or was KOd by the subsequent coverage attack (providing Vappy lived). In that respect I was very happy to have LO and not specs.
 

Furai

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#10
The Hydration tank has been shown by Smurf in Rainy Day Smurf. I've played around with the Hydration Vaporeon and it works just great.

This thing lures Gastrodon and Jellicent and simply murders them with HP Grass and doesn't give a fuck about status. Hydro Pump in rain hits like a truck, and the set is kinda unexpected.

Mention Thundurus or Rotom-W as a Teammate, because when Gastrodon is out, they gonna have some fun.
 
#11
The LO set is definitely good enough to get its own set. Instant healing the rain = awesome, especially when hazards and passive damage start building up. I prefer to Choice Specs brute power and inability to switch moves (although the specs set is still good) I'm a bit iffy on the speed since I feel that Vaporeon could go faster, but for now its good.

QC APPROVED (1/3)
 

AccidentalGreed

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#12
The LO set is definitely good enough to get its own set. Instant healing the rain = awesome, especially when hazards and passive damage start building up. I prefer to Choice Specs brute power and inability to switch moves (although the specs set is still good) I'm a bit iffy on the speed since I feel that Vaporeon could go faster, but for now its good.

QC APPROVED (1/3)
Thanks for the check! In the case of Speed, would a spread of 154 / Def / 252 SpA / 104 Spe suffice for outrunning minimum base 80 threats? On this note, Vaporeon does lose bulk, so I'm considering taking some Special Attack EVs out (since, like on Rotom-W, it's borderline 'overkill').
 

Pocket

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#13
Quality analysis as always, AccidentalGreed. May I suggest Scald / Surf on the fourth slot of the Specs set? Shadow Ball definitely has utility, mainly because it smacks Jellicent hard, while also hitting other common switch-ins for SE / neutral damage (Latias, Celebi, Roserade, Tentacruel, Gastrodon, etc).

I think having a secondary Water move is worth a mention, though. This way, Vaporeon can pack Hydro Pump's firepower and Scald / Surf's burn and consisteny. Having a reserve for its primary STAB offense would also help reserve Hydro Pump's meager 8 PP for more emergency situations.
 

AccidentalGreed

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#14
Quality analysis as always, AccidentalGreed. May I suggest Scald / Surf on the fourth slot of the Specs set? Shadow Ball definitely has utility, mainly because it smacks Jellicent hard, while also hitting other common switch-ins for SE / neutral damage (Latias, Celebi, Roserade, Tentacruel, Gastrodon, etc).

I think having a secondary Water move is worth a mention, though. This way, Vaporeon can pack Hydro Pump's firepower and Scald / Surf's burn and consisteny. Having a reserve for its primary STAB offense would also help reserve Hydro Pump's meager 8 PP for more emergency situations.
This may not be so much of a case because of the lack of Water Spout, but this sounds reasonable anyways. If something like Choice Jellicent uses two Water-type moves for conservation, Vaporeon can do the same as well. I would prefer to list Scald because of its utility, though I can always remove Wish to avoid slashitis.
 
#15
Teammates and Counters

  • Vaporeon has a hard time stomaching special Electric- and Grass-type moves, though it can usually stall out Life Orb Pokemon with Rest
  • Special walls such as Blissey can be a problem, but you're basically immune to anything they do to you
  • Drizzle Politoed, obviously
  • Offensive support to hit what Vapareon can't.
  • Toxic Spikes are EXTREMELY important if you're one-on-one with special walls
  • When Gastrodon's out, Thundurus and Rotom-W's gonna have some fun.
Thundurus is gone now.
 
#16
I don't know how to feel about these sets. Hyration Orb is cool, but we need to include a "high power water move" set for every water pokemon it seems. I don't understand why anyone would bother with Choice Specs Vaporeon to be honest. In rain the hydration sets are so much better. Outside of rain, Vaporeon is better off doing what it can do best, passing big wishes.

I'm not going to preach to the choir about "outclassed" because that isn't the point. But should we write an analysis for EVERY water pokemon simply because "it can be used effectively in rain"? The reader should know this by now. If this set goes up, where is OU Life Orb Milotic (which is better than this thing btw)??
 
#18
yeah i gotta agree with raikoulover on this one. specs kinda stinks when you have hydration rest to use with LO. soooo scrap specs imo yaaaaaaaaaaaay

QC Approved 2/3
 

Pocket

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#19
I'd personally keep Specs. Hydration is still useful for absorbing random status from Blissey, Chansey, Tentacruel, Jellicent, Jirachi, Heatran, Ninetales etc, while the extra 15% boosts makes a noticeable difference, providing Vaporeon a very real chance in 2HKOing Chansey and Blissey with SR damage.
 
#20
We talked this over in our channel, and we agreed that Specs was just not good enough to warrant its own set in this metagame. I'm cool with the Hydration one, though.

QC APPROVED (3/3)
 

AccidentalGreed

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#21
Well, if QC agrees on it, I'll discard Specs (I personally was detached to it, despite the positives I mentioned last time). Sorry Pocket :(

So cool, just one set; I will attempt to get this written up soon.
 

November Blue

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#23
Unofficial GP check.

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I thought cats hated water...or is this a dog?

[SET]
name: Hydration Tank
move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Rest
item: Life Orb
ability: Hydration
nature: Modest
evs: 212 Def / 252 SpA / 44 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Despite mostly being played defensively, an offensive Vaporeon isn't a completely irrational idea due to its often overlooked base 110 Special Attack and usable attacking movepool. This generation, Vaporeon can reach the peak of its offensive prowess thanks to the advent of permanent rain (which boosts the power of Vaporeon's Water-type moves) in OU and its brand new ability: Hydration. In spite of some redundancy with Drizzle Politoed, who shares the same typing, Vaporeon becomes an incredibly powerful and annoying force in the rain, with the added ability to recover from low health and status instantly through Hydration and Rest. The strategy is simple; plow Plow through any opponents in the way, using Rest when necessary. To avoid becoming death fodder for the next target, Rest should be used on a well-timed basis, such as at mid-health when Vaporeon's health dips below 50%, or before KOing the opposing Pokemon.</p>

<p>Vaporeon's main weapon is its chosen Water-type move due to the stacked boosts it receives from STAB, Life Orb, and the rain. Hydro Pump would be the preferred choice for raw power, coming close to 2HKOing the likes of Blissey, (< Comma) and even Ferrothorn with some entry hazard damage. If Hydro Pump's lower accuracy and PP do not appeal to you, Surf is a more reasonably reliable alternative at the cost of power. The other attacking moves should only be used upon circumstance; Ice Beam hits Dragon-and Grass-type foes super effectively, while Hidden Power Grass provides coverage against opposing Water-types, especially Gastrodon and Quagsire. Speaking of which, other Hidden Powers are less useful due to the popularity of said Pokemon (and Gastrodon's ability to wall Rain-based teams), so replacing Hidden Power Grass isn't is not recommended.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>If it wasn't apparent enough already, Vaporeon requires as much power as possible, so first, maximize its Special Attack with a Modest nature. 44 EVs are invested into Speed to get the jump on uninvested base 70 Pokemon, and the rest is are poured into Defense to improve its Vaporeon's tanking capabilities. If maximum Special Attack comes off as seems like 'overkill', some EVs can be transferred from Special Attack to either Defense or Speed for further tanking abilities, (< Comma) or outspending outspeeding certain Pokemon. The reason why that HP isn't touched is because Vaporeon already has high HP as it is, and its physical defense Defense would be a weakness otherwise.</p>

<p>As previously stated, Vaporeon is required needs to be paired up with Drizzle Politoed to fully maximize its (< s) potential; however, doing so Doing so, however, results in an unfortunate type overlap and overall redundancy. If you insist of on using Vaporeon, Politoed should cater to a defensive role, . (< Period) which, on the bright side, it does well thanks to its access to decent support moves, such as Perish Song and Encore. At this point, defensive synergy is desperately needed to cover up Vaporeon's and Poitoed's your teams Electric- and Grass-type weaknesses. You may consider using Dragon- or Grass-type teammates of your own to cover rectify (Cover is repetitive) this issue. For example, Ferrothorn stands out for its ability to provide entry hazards and paralysis support, both of which are beneficial for the power- and speed-starved power and speed starved Vaporeon. For Dragon-types, Dragonite and Latios are good choices, capable of sponging strikes aimed at Vaporeon and replying with their respective wallbreaking attacks. Additionally, since as Vaporeon can lure and take out Drizzle team counters (Blissey, Gastrodon, and weather inducers, to name a few), Pokemon that can take advantage of their absence are largely recommended.</p>

<p>Vaporeon itself has a few problems bypassing some dedicated defensive Pokemon, especially Ferrothorn (if it Vaporeon can't manage to 2HKO) and opposing bulky Water-types. Offensive support is necessary to defeat what Vaporeon can't; . (< Period) therefore, Therefore, employing teammates with Fighting- or Electric-type attacks can fend off these threats. On a Drizzle team, Toxicroak, Breloom, and Thunder users should suffice nicely. Additionally, Toxic Spikes support, preferably from Tentacruel or Roserade, allows Vaporeon to gain more KOes and deteriorate defensive Pokemon simply by using Rest and attacking constantly.</p>
It was quite comma heavy.

EDIT: Proofread and finalized.
 

AccidentalGreed

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#24
Great amateur check, just one thing:

Use of capitalization or lower-case after a colon varies. In British English, the word following the colon is in lower case unless it is a proper noun or an acronym, or if it is normally capitalized for some other reason. However, in American English, many writers capitalize the word following a colon if it begins an independent clause (i.e., a complete sentence).
To avoid conflict, I simply edited the clauses and punctuations regarding this. Have at this as you will.
 

November Blue

A universe where hot chips don't exist :(
is a Contributor Alumnus
#25
Thanks for using my check AG!

I like to capitalize after the colon because it's technically a new sentence. The colons job is to link relevant sentences.

You missed an s

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>If it wasn't apparent enough already, Vaporeon requires as much power as possible, so first, maximize its Special Attack with a Modest nature. 44 EVs are invested into Speed to get the jump on uninvested base 70 Pokemon, and the rest are poured into Defense to improve Vaporeon's tanking capabilities. If maximum Special Attack seems like 'overkill', some EVs can be transferred from Special Attack to either Defense or Speed for further tanking abilities, or outspeeding certain Pokemon. The reason that HP isn't touched is because Vaporeon already has high HP as it is, and its physical Defense would be a weakness otherwise.</p>

<p>As previously stated, Vaporeon needs to be paired up with Drizzle Politoed to maximize it potential. <<< Here.

....