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Vaporeon (Update) [QC 2/2] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Jorgen, Aug 5, 2012.

  1. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    [Overview]

    <p>Vaporeon was a mediocre defensive Pokemon outclassed by Suicune for the majority of GSC's history. Its draws over Suicune were access to Reflect and Haze, but ultimately not having that monstrous Defense stat left it unused in OU. Then, the NYPC gods gave Vaporeon and its Eeveelution brethren a gift from Pokemon heaven—Growth—which catapulted Vaporeon into legitimate OU territory. Growth is the only move in GSC that boosts the Special Attack stat, and Vaporeon is by far the best user for a standalone special sweep thanks to its bulk and high Special Attack. Nowadays, while Vaporeon still has the same defensive prowess, Growth boosts its Special Attack, which is high even without a boost but often overlooked, and makes it one of the premier offensive threats in the game. Vaporeon is a threat that must not be underestimated despite its initial lack of popularity.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Growth Sweeper
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Growth
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Acid Armor
    item: Leftovers

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Vaporeon is a unique offensive Pokemon in GSC OU. It's a legitimate special threat that can take a hit and can set up with Growth. Unlike the legendary Electric-types that are GSC's other prominent special threats, Vaporeon is more geared towards setting up and sweeping rather than scoring opportunistic KOs. Vaporeon sets up on the special side, which makes it immune to stall tactics such as Growl and Charm, as opposed to other reliable setup Pokemon such as Curse Snorlax. Dissimilar to more daring setup Pokemon such as Belly Drum Snorlax and Swords Dance Marowak, Vaporeon is able to break stall while having an easy-to-use setup move and the ability to take hits.</p>

    <p>Vaporeon's STAB is the choice between reliability and power. Hydro Pump is great for wallbreaking. It can 3HKO Snorlax after a single Growth and it also does 36-43% to Raikou without a boost, meaning that if Spikes are down and Vaporeon's Hydro Pump connects, Raikou can only afford to switch in once more before having to use Rest. Surf, on the other hand, isn't going to miss and doesn't suffer from Hydro Pump's horrendous 8 PP. Growth is the whole point of the set, allowing Vaporeon to take advantage of its good defenses and set up the sweep. Rest keeps it alive and gives it the longevity that allows it to play defensively and to set up when needed. As for the fourth move, Sleep Talk is the standard and keeps Vaporeon around to tank hits from Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon. Furthermore, Sleep Talk also minimizes downtime when trying to set up. Acid Armor, however, beats CurseLax in a head-to-head match-up. Acid Armor is also nice for PP wars with its incredible 61 PP, and buffers Vaporeon against other dangerous physical attackers such as Heracross, Machamp, and Explosion users.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Umbreon get rid of Exeggutor, a prominent Pokemon with a resistance to Water-type attacks that also has the offensive prowess to force Vaporeon to switch out. Tyranitar in particular can also chip away at Zapdos and Raikou, which force Vaporeon out with strong STAB Electric-type moves, but can be rendered unable to switch in on Vaporeon with some residual damage. Other great partners for Vaporeon are offensive Explosion users; Exeggutor and Steelix frequently target Zapdos with their Explosions, Gengar commonly takes down Raikou, Steelix and Selfdestruct Snorlax can KO Roar Suicune, and Cloyster has a good chance of taking out any of these threats. Paralyzing Raikou and weakening Snorlax can also go a long way towards helping Vaporeon pick up the pieces. Thunder or Thunder Wave from Zapdos or even your own Raikou can paralyze an opposing Raikou, while the combination of Toxic and Spikes will eventually force Snorlax to Rest, giving Vaporeon an opening to set up against it.</p>

    <p>When using Vaporeon, it's vital to use prediction to beat its checks. When you predict an Electric-type switch-in, use Vaporeon's STAB move; even without a boost, Vaporeon's STAB does a lot to Zapdos and Raikou, especially if Vaporeon is using Hydro Pump. When you expect Snorlax, use Growth. Vaporeon isn't scaring Snorlax with an unboosted STAB move, but Snorlax isn't instantly forcing Vaporeon out either, especially not Acid Armor variants, so having the Special Attack boost can put a Snorlax switch-in in a pretty awkward position, particularly if Vaporeon is touting Hydro Pump's potential 3HKO. If some other wall such as Roar Suicune or a high-health Exeggutor is going to switch in, Vaporeon should duck out and give the opportunity to another Pokemon to do its damage. Suicune is a fine double-switch opportunity for Roar Raikou to start Spikes shuffling or Cloyster to set up its Spikes, whereas Exeggutor is put in a bind if you predict and double-switch to a Pursuit user such as Tyranitar. If the opponent has none of these available, Vaporeon is free to sweep, so just set up Growths and finish the job. This includes situations where the opponent is using Blissey to try to wall Vaporeon, as Blissey cannot stop Vaporeon from setting up to the point where a single critical hit can destroy it, never mind the fact that Vaporeon wins most stall wars against Blissey by virtue of Growth's titanic PP count.</p>

    <p>Vaporeon can use other moves effectively in the last moveslot. Thanks to GSC's phazing mechanics, Vaporeon's slower Roar prevents Roar Suicune from phazing it. Roar also allows Vaporeon to win mirror matches and can also be used to Spikes-shuffle with Vaporeon's ability to force switches. Ice Beam is an excellent coverage option for destroying Exeggutor, Dragonite, and Zapdos. The ability to freeze foes such as Suicune and Blissey can also facilitate a sweep. However, Sleep Talk or Acid Armor is generally the way to go.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As for options in the fourth moveslot of the main set, Vaporeon has a couple of okay options other than the ones listed. Hidden Power Electric 3HKOes Suicune as well as other Vaporeon at +1 and also wrecks the odd Tentacruel looking for a free boost. Blizzard is also an option as it can 2HKO Zapdos without a boost and OHKOes Exeggutor about 50% of the time at +1 after factoring accuracy. However, Blizzard's low PP and accuracy are major turnoffs.</p>

    <p>A Baton Pass set could work. In this case, Vaporeon is best off forgoing Rest for Acid Armor as a second stat boost to pass. Good recipients include Zapdos, Raikou, and Exeggutor. Growth boosts the recipient's Special Attack to scary levels, while Acid Armor boosts Defense to render the normally threatening Snorlax unable to do meaningful damage in return. Vaporeon is a great user of Baton Pass because, aside from Roar Suicune, no other popular phazer is capable of stopping Vaporeon from passing its boosts without taking a lot of damage from a boosted Hydro Pump or Surf. Even then, Suicune can be beaten by using Roar on Baton Pass Vaporeon. However, Raikou will usually make life difficult for a Baton Pass set. While it can't comfortably use Roar against Vaporeon without taking a lot of damage in return, it will do tons of damage to Vaporeon if it decides to stay in against Raikou, and it can tank most special attacking Baton Pass targets, even at +1. Zapdos is also a tough foe for Baton Pass Vaporeon; it cannot tank +1 special attackers the way Raikou can, but it does heavy damage to Vaporeon if it decides to stay in to use its slower Baton Pass, thereby preventing Vaporeon from trying again later in the match.</p>

    <p>The classic pre-Growth defensive Vaporeon set of Rest, Surf, Haze, and Reflect is an option for those who want a Suicune with worse defenses but better support moves. However, Vaporeon is better off using Growth to play offensively than trying to be a Suicune, especially since it was BL before the advent of Growth.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most of Vaporeon's common checks don't wall it completely, but rather threaten to smash its face in. Zapdos and Raikou are the most common checks and can 2HKO with their STABs. However, they can't take too many Surfs or Hydro Pumps on the switch. Snorlax is the second most common answer to Vaporeon, but it's a shaky check. Snorlax is 3HKOed by a +1 Hydro Pump and Acid Armor variants of Vaporeon beat it without relying on a move with iffy accuracy. Exeggutor is a good stop-gap against Vaporeon but won't last forever. It's easily targeted by Pursuit, dies quickly to Ice Beam Vaporeon, and if Spikes are down it will eventually be put into +1 Surf or Hydro Pump KO range. Cloyster can outspeed Vaporeon and Explode on it, but Cloyster isn't doing anything to stop Vaporeon without sacrificing itself with Explosion. Gengar 3HKOes with an Electric-type attack, and can Explode or use Destiny Bond if things go south, although it struggles to take Vaporeon's attacks. As for less common checks, Tentacruel resists Surf and sets up a counter-sweep with Swords Dance. Dragonite resists Surf and threatens Vaporeon with Thunder and Double-Edge, but loses to Ice Beam variants. Heracross outspeeds Vaporeon and very narrowly misses out on 2HKOing it at full health, although Acid Armor mitigates this damage and Heracross has trouble switching into Vaporeon.</p>

    <p>While Vaporeon is usually countered by using high damage output, there are quite a few Pokemon that wall it entirely. Roar Suicune is the most common full stop to Vaporeon, although it fails to stop last-Pokemon Vaporeon or variants that use Roar themselves. Suicune can also play to freeze Vaporeon with both Ice Beam and Mirror Coat, with Mirror Coat keeping Vaporeon wary of attacking while Suicune tries to freeze it. Aside from Suicune, Light Screen Blissey can help teammates such as Zapdos to switch more easily into Vaporeon. It can also try to outstall Vaporeon, but Blissey will usually lose the PP war and, on turns when Light Screen wears off, a combination of a high damage roll and a critical hit from a +5 Surf will put Blissey in KO range on the following turn. Vaporeon can also use Ice Beam to freeze Blissey. At the very least, Light Screen Blissey will be difficult to defeat for Hydro Pump Vaporeon and its meager 8 PP. Starmie resists Surf and can use Thunder hoping for three consecutive hits to 3HKO Vaporeon or Light Screen to flat-out stall Vaporeon out of PP. Starmie, unlike Blissey, can outstall Vaporeon because of Rapid Spin's high PP. As for less common walls to Vaporeon, Meganium can wall Vaporeon with Leech Seed, Synthesis, and possibly Light Screen, although Ice Beam Vaporeon can beat it. In addition, Kingdra can Curse in Vaporeon's face, uses Haze, or even go for the freeze with Ice Beam while only being 5HKOed by +5 Surfs, although it can be 2HKOed by +5 Ice Beams or stalled out by Acid Armor variants.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, Vaporeon is a good check to itself. Even after switching in to give the opposing Vaporeon a turn advantage, a Sleep Talking Vaporeon has only slightly less than even odds at beating an opposing Sleep Talk Vaporeon and better odds if the opposing Vaporeon is not a Sleep Talking variant. +4 Surf and +3 Hydro Pump both 3HKO an opposing Vaporeon, so boost this far before you stop setting up and start attacking. Alternatively, you can just use Roar so that you can phaze opposing Vaporeon after you gather a couple of boosts in the Growth war.</p>
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    <p> Contrast with Electrics, Contrast with reliable Physical setup, contrast with defensively weak Physical setup, contrast with defensively weak Special setup</p>

    Kind of confused what you mean by this - otherwise i would've stamped this. No need to rush, though, you're probably in WIP-phase.
  3. Borat

    Borat

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    To nitpick, against LS blissey, you'll win almost 100% of the time without PPing if you Surf right after screen goes away to play for CH. CH + normal LS'd hit kills. Obviously with Hydro Pump you probably shouldn't do that.

    Well it's not that reliable, since on average it's 10 hits to a CH, which would take almost all of your growths anyway.

    Oh yeah, and LS starmie is a hard check bar IB freeze.

    EDIT: Nvm you mentioned it.
  4. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    WIP phase is done. That took a while, and I hope I was more careful and less redundant with the language to make lookovers less tedious. Still a mountain of text, though.
  5. Blurpleberry

    Blurpleberry

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    Do people still play GSC on battle simulators?
  6. Jellicent

    Jellicent ~the spirit who loves spirits~
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  7. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Excellent, scholarly, lovely, magical piece of work, Jorgen.

    In the Overview or Set comments, please mention Vaporeon's deceptively high base 110 SpA that makes its main set so threatening in the first place. This is a good reminder for late-gen players who are only accustomed in using Vaporeon for its bulk and wish-passing capabilities.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    OO and CC is a huge block of text that can be broken up into multiple paragraphs

    OO - 1st para 4th slot on the main set, 2nd para BP, 3rd para the shit Reflect + Haze option

    CC - 1st para - offensive checks (electrics, Dragonite, Tentacruel, Gengar, Starmie, Heracross, Snorlax, Exeggutor, Curse Kingdra, Cloyster); 2nd para - defensive checks (LS Starmie, Meganium, Blissey, Suicune, Haze Kingdra); 3rd para - Vaporeon mirror match

    The following were descriptions found in AC that should be move to CC:

    - in para 2 when talking about LS users.
    - This should probably be your concluding sentence to wrap the section up.

    Approved (1/2)
  8. Tamahome

    Tamahome hey moon, please forget to fall down
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    Just a nitpick, but Vaporeon is a check to Nidoking. I said check, cause Spikes and Thunder won't let you to come in whenever you want, however you have the chance to OHKO Nidoking using a +0 Hydro Pump, since it'll hit 92%~100%. It's up to you if you want to add it or not.

    Approved (2/2)
  9. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Thanks for the feedback, I'll implement changes soon.
  10. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Well I finally got to this. QC checks are implemented. Thanks for the organizational notes Pocket, it feels a bit more readable now. I didn't separate Kingdra into offensive and defensive mentions, though, because Kingdra doesn't deserve its name in two places anywhere GSC-related (it barely deserves one). As for Nidoking, I already mention that Vaporeon is used to tank Ground-types in general. Also I imply that it's merely a check by stating that it struggles to take repeated hits from these foes, and even then it needs Sleep Talk to really pull it off. I don't think Nidoking needs to be explicitly mentioned among Ground-types, if anything Nidoking is the scariest Ground for Vaporeon to see since, unlike the others, Vaporeon fails to outpace it.

    This should be ready for GP checks now.
  11. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    You've mentioned Pursuit Tyranitar as a partner to beat Exeggutor. Pursuit Houndoom be a better partner, as it resists Giga Drain and has greeter SpA to abuse Pursuit with, not to forget that Exeggutor has to fear a more powerful Crunch and Fire Blast. Houndoom is more prone to Explosion, but Exeggutor chooses to use it, Exeg can no longer wall Vaporeon, so Houndoom has fulfilled its duty to Vaporeon.
  12. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Pursuit Houndoom does do well when it comes to beating up on Eggy. But Houndoom offers no defensive synergy, so it's ultimately more of a gimmick mon than the legit OU Ttar is. Plus, Houndoom always runs Sunny Day, which could linger and make him a pretty bad partner for Vap. For these reasons, I don't think Houndoom should really be explicitly listed as a good partner for Vap.
  13. .Maguss.

    .Maguss.

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    Completelly disagree. Houndoom can run Sleep Talk on the last slot and be even better for the role of get rid of Exeggy. And it can also run Counter or Hidden Power or even Rest (if it have a beller as partner).
  14. Borat

    Borat

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    I like Sday houndoom tbh. Enough to thwart starmie, zapdos, raikou, and snorlax from coming in too handily.

    In any case, if exeggutor is their biggest stop to vap, I don't think there are many problems at all.
  15. Jorgen

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    I mentioned Pursuit users in general and not just Tyranitar, so Houdoom can be considered as covered in that blanket term. I still don't like saying Houndoom explicitly, though, because the Sunny Day thing is its main draw and because Ttar and even Umbreon offer much more synergy to a team if all you're looking for is a way to beat Egg (which as Borat said isn't even the worst of your worries with Vap).
  16. .Maguss.

    .Maguss.

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    In general, yes. But just as my personal preference, I like to suggest "gimmick" and less used Pokémon when it is possible. GSC is a very limited metagame already, and suggesting the use of other Pokémon than the standards may be good... Offers more options and variability to the meta. It's not like your suggest a poor Pokémon on a poor place. Houndoom is a good partner to Vaporeon, although it is one of its few uses.
  17. Yonko7

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    Diff (open)


    <p>Vaporeon had been seen as was a mediocre defensive Pokemon outclassed by Suicune for the majority of GSC’s history. Its draws over Suicune were access to Reflect and Haze, but ultimately not having that monstrous Defense stat left it little-unused in OU. Then, the NYPC gods gave Vaporeon and its Eeveelution brethren a gift from Pokemon heaven - Growth - which went on to be abused utilized by Borat to catapult Vaporeon into legitimate OU territory. Growth is the only move in GSC that boosts the Special Attack stat, and Vaporeon is by far its the best user for a standalone Special sweeping purposes thanks to its bulk and high Special Attack even before a boost. Nowadays, while Vaporeon still has the defensive prowess that it once had made it perceived as a defensive Pokemon (albeit a mediocre one) a bit redundant and clunky, Growth also allows it to capitalize off its oft-overlooked base 110 Special Attack and makes it one of the premier offensive threats in the game. Underestimate Vaporeon at your own risk; it’s seriously pretty deadly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Growth Sweeper
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Growth
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Acid Armor

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>No spaceVaporeon is a unique offensive Pokemon in GSC OU. It's a legitimate Sspecial threat that can take a hit and that actually and can sets up with Growth. Unlike the legendary Electric-types that are GSC's other legitimate prominent Special threats, Vaporeon is more geared towards setting up and sweeping rather than scoring opportunistic kills KOs. Unlike other reliable setup Pokemon such as Curse Snorlax, Vaporeon sets up on the Sspecial side, making it immune to stall tactics such as Growl and Charm. Unlike more daring setup Pokemon such as Belly Drum Snorlax and Swords Dance Marowak, Vaporeon is able to break stalls while having an easy-to-use setup move and the ability to take hits itself.</p>

    <p>Vaporeon's choice of STAB is the choice between reliability and power. Hydro Pump is great for wall breaking. It can 3HKO Snorlax after a single Growth, and it also does 36-43% to Raikou without a boost, meaning that if Spikes are down and Vaporeon's Hydro Pumps connect, Raikou can only afford to switch in once before having to use Rest. Surf, on the other hand, isn't going to miss when you've already got Vaporeon going, and doesn't suffer from Hydro Pump's horrendous 8PP, which meansing that Vaporeon doesn't have to risk being stalled out of attacking running out of PP by threats such as Suicune and Blissey. Growth is the whole point of the set, allowing Vaporeon to take advantage of its good defenses and set up the sweep. Rest keeps it alive and gives it the longevity that allows it to play defense and to survive a setup when needed. As for the fourth move, Sleep Talk is the standard and keeps it Vaporeon available for to tanking hits from Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon that it would otherwise struggle to repeatedly switch in against. Furthermore, Sleep Talk also minimizes downtime when trying to set up. Acid Armor, however, makes the Vaporeon sweep more likely once the opponent's Electric-type is gone, [comma] by allowing it to outright beating CurseLax in a head-to-head matchup. Acid Armor is also nice for PP wars with its incredible 63PP, and it of course buffers Vaporeon against other dangerous Pphysical attackers such as Heracross, Machamp, and Explosion users.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Vaporeon loves a little support to get rid of the more common ways to delay its sweep to sweep more easily. Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Umbreon get rid of Exeggutor, who otherwise resists Water-type attacks while having the offensive prowess to force Vaporeon out. Tyranitar in particular can also chip away at Zapdos and Raikou, who force Vaporeon out with strong STAB Electric-type moves, but can be rendered unable to switch in on Vaporeon with some residual damage. Other great partners for Vaporeon are offensive Explosion users. Exeggutor and Steelix frequently target Zapdos with their Explosions, Gengar frequently takes down Raikou, Steelix, [comma] and the odd Selfdestruct Snorlax can take out Roar Suicune, and in addition Cloyster has a good chance of taking down any one of these aforementioned threats. Furthermore, being able to active is better than passive =] paralyzeing Raikou and weakening Snorlax both can go a long way towards allowhelping Vaporeon to pick up the pieces. Thunder or Thunder Wave from Zapdos or even your own Raikou can paralyze an opposing Raikou, while the combination of Toxic and Spikes will ultimately force Snorlax to Rest, giving Vaporeon an opening to set up against it.</p>

    <p>When using Vaporeon in the early-game [hyphen], it's vital to use prediction to beat its checks. When you predict an Electric-type switch-in, use your Vaporeon's STAB move; even without a boost, Vaporeon's STAB does a lot of damage to Zapdos and Raikou, especially if Vaporeon is using Hydro Pump. When you expect Snorlax, use Growth. Vaporeon isn't scaring Snorlax with an unboosted STAB moves there's only one STAB, but Snorlax isn't instantly forcing Vaporeon out, especially not Acid Armor variants, so having theat Special Attack boost can put a Snorlax switch-in in a pretty awkward position, especially if Vaporeon is touting Hydro Pump's potential 3HKO. If some other wall, [no comma] such as Roar Suicune or a high-health Exeggutor, [no comma] is going to switch in, Vaporeon should duck out and give the opportunity to another Pokemon to do its damage. Suicune makeis a fine double-switch opportunity for Roar Raikou to start Spikes shuffling or Cloyster to set up its Spikes, whereas Exeggutor is put in a bind if you predict and double-switch to a Pursuit user such as Tyranitar. If the opponent has none of these available, Vaporeon is free to sweep, so just set up Growths and finish the job. Yes, this includes if the opponent is using Blissey to try to wall Vaporeon, since as Blissey cannot stop Vaporeon from setting up to the point where a single Critical Hit can destroy it, never mind the fact that Vaporeon wins most stall wars against Blissey by virtue of Growth's titanic PP count.no space</p>

    <p>Vaporeon can use other moves effectively in theat last moveslot. Roar ruins Roar Suicune because Roar in GSC favors the slower user. Roar Suicune is otherwise hardwalls all but last-Pokemon Vaporeon, so being able to get past Suicune is an excellent perk. Roar also allows Vaporeon to win mirror matches and can also be used to Spikes-shuffle since , because Vaporeon's ability to set up forces a lot of switches. Ice Beam is an excellent coverage option for destroying Exeggutor, Dragonite, and Zapdos, who are otherwise exceptional checks to Vaporeon. Being able to go for the The ability to freeze against foes such as Suicune and Blissey can also help to streamline a sweep. Generally, though, Although, Sleep Talk or Acid Armor is generally the way to go.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As for options in the fourth moveslot of the main set, Vaporeon has a couple of okay options other than the ones already listed. Hidden Power Electric 3HKOs Suicune and as well as other Vaporeon at +1 and also wrecks the odd Tentacruel looking for a free boost. Blizzard is also an option since it is as it can 2HKOing Zapdos without a boost and OHKOs Exeggutor about 50% of the time at +1 after factoring accuracy. Blizzard’s low PP and accuracy are major turnoffs, though.</p>
    Space
    <p>A Baton Pass set could work. In this case, Vaporeon is best off forgoing Rest for Acid Armor as a second stat boost to pass. Good recipients include Zapdos, Raikou, and Exeggutor. Growth boosts these recipients's there's only one recipient Special Attack to scary levels, while Acid Armor boosts Defense enough to render the normally scary Snorlax unable to do meaningful damage in return. Baton Pass Vaporeon can also effectively use Curse to pass Attack boosts to physical threats such as Machamp or Substitute to go for multiple boosts against Electric-types that use Thunder as their STAB. Vaporeon is a great user of Baton Pass because, aside from Roar Suicune, no other popular phazer is capable of stopping Vaporeon from passing its boosts without taking a lot of damage from a boosted Hydro Pump or Surf. However, if Suicune bothers you on a Baton Pass set, using Roar to pass Growths against it is a very viable strategy. Raikou will usually make life difficult for a Baton Pass set, though. While it can't comfortably use Roar directly against Vaporeon without taking a lot of damage in return, it will do tons of damage and force Vaporeon to either switch in or pass out immediately, and it can tank most Sspecial Aattackers, even at +1, while dealing good damage in return or comfortably phazing them. Zapdos also makes life tough; it doesn't tank +1 Special Attackers the way Raikou can, but it does heavy damage to Vaporeon if it decides to pass out, thereby effectively preventing it from trying again later in the match.</p>

    <p>Of course, the classic pre-Growth defensive Vaporeon set of Rest, Surf, Haze, and Reflect is an option for those who want a Suicune with worse defenses but better support moves. However, Vaporeon is better off using Growth to play offense than it is trying to be Suicune, especially since it was BL before the advent of Growth.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most of Vaporeon's common checks don’t wall it completely, but rather threaten to smash its face in. Zapdos and Raikou are the most common checks and can 2HKO with their STABs. They can't take too many Surfs or Hydro Pumps on the switch, though. Snorlax is the second most common answer to Vaporeon, but it's a shaky check. Snorlax is 3HKOed by a +1 Hydro Pump and Acid Armor variants of Vaporeon beat it outright without relying on a move with iffy accuracy. Exeggutor is a good stop-gap against Vaporeon but won’t last forever. It's easily targeted by pPursuit, dies quickly to Ice Beam variants of Vaporeon, and if Spikes are down it will eventually be put into +1 Surf or Hydro Pump KO range. Cloyster can outspeed Vaporeon and Explode on it, but Cloyster isn’t doing anything to stop Vaporeon without sacrificing itself with Explosion. Gengar 3HKOs with an Electric move, can Explode, and can always use Destiny Bond if things go south, although it struggles mightily to take Vaporeon’s attacks. As for less common checks, Tentacruel resists anything Vaporeon can throw at it and sets up a counter-sweep with Swords Dance. Dragonite resists Surf and threatens Vaporeon with Thunder and Double-Edge, but loses to Ice Beam variants. Heracross outspeeds Vaporeon and very narrowly misses out on 2HKOing it at full health, although Acid Armor mitigates this damage and Heracross has trouble switching into Vaporeon.</p>

    <p>While Vaporeon is usually countered by using high damage output to scare it out, there are quite a few Pokemon that hardwall it entirely. Roar Suicune is the most common full stop to Vaporeon, although it fails to stop last-Pokemon Vaporeon or variants that use Roar themselves. Suicune can also play to freeze Vaporeon with both Ice Beam and Mirror Coat, with Mirror Coat keeping Vaporeon too scared to attack while Suicune tries to freeze it. Aside from Suicune, Light Screen Blissey can pass Special Defense boosts to teammates suchk lol as Zapdos to more easily force Vaporeon out. It can also try to outstall Vaporeon, but Blissey will usually lose the PP war and, on turns whenre Light Screen wears off, a combination of a high damage roll and a Critical Hit from a +5 Surf will put Blissey in KO range for Vaporeon on the following turn. Vaporeon could also be useing Ice Beam to freeze Blissey. At the very least, Light Screen Blissey will make life difficult for Hydro Pump Vaporeon. Starmie resists Surf and can use Thunder hoping for three consecutive hits to 3HKO Vaporeon, or Light Screen to flat-out stall Vaporeon out of PP. As for less common hardwalls to Vaporeon, Meganium walls Vaporeon forever with Leech Seed, Synthesis, and possibly Light Screen, although Ice Beam Vaporeon can beat it. In addition, Kingdra Curses in Vaporeon's face, uses Haze, or even goes for the freeze with Ice Beam while only being 5HKOed by +5 Surfs, although it can be 2HKOed by heavily boosted Ice Beams or stalled out by Acid Armor variants.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, Vaporeon can check itself. Even after switching in to give the opposing Vaporeon an advantage, a Sleep Talking Vaporeon has roughly even odds of beating an opposing Vaporeon in a mirror match, and even better odds if the opposing Vaporeon is not a Sleep Talking variant. +4 Surf and +3 Hydro Pump 3HKOs an opposing Vaporeon, so know this before you stop setting up and start attacking in Vaporeon dittos. Alternatively, you can just use Roar so that you can just phaze opposing Vaporeon after you gather a couple of boosts in the Growth war.</p>

    <p>The most common checks to Vaporeon are those that threaten to outdamage it rather than those that will wall it for eternity. For this reason, you should keep in mind that you should show Vaporeon different looks when playing against it in the likely scenario that you are without one of its hardwalls. If you fail to mix up which Pokemon you send in to greet Vaporeon, your Electric-type could end up taking too many Surfs or Hydro Pumps to be able to switch in again, or your Snorlax could be looking down the barrel of a 3HKO as Vaporeon uses Growth on the switch.</p>



    -Since denotes time, as/ because is the one you want
    -I fixed the spacing between paragraphs
    -Although is more professional than though


    Good job writing this!
  18. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I looked through Yonko7's check and implemented it judiciously (though mostly to the letter), changing it up a bit where the wording of the check was particularly awkward. I suppose this needs a big GP dude to come by and give the thumbs up.
  19. Worldtour

    Worldtour aka Swamp-Rocket
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    I just noticed you don't have an item listed for the set. You may want to add Lefties or something.
  20. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Added the lefties, I edited the OP ages ago but never made another post so here ya go.
  21. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>Vaporeon was a mediocre defensive Pokemon outclassed by Suicune for the majority of GSC’s history. Its draws over Suicune were access to Reflect and Haze, but ultimately not having that monstrous Defense stat left it unused in OU. Then, the NYPC gods gave Vaporeon and its Eeveelution brethren a gift from Pokemon heaven - Growth -&mdash;Growth&mdash; which catapulted Vaporeon into legitimate OU territory. Growth is the only move in GSC that boosts the Special Attack stat, and Vaporeon is by far the best user for a standalone Sspecial sweep thanks to its bulk and high Special Attack even before a boost. Nowadays, while Vaporeon still has the defensive prowess that it once had, Growth also allows it to make use of its oft-overlooked base 110 Special Attack and makes it one of the premier offensive threats in the game. Underestimate Vaporeon at your own risk; it’s seriously pretty deadly.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Growth Sweeper
    move 1: Surf / Hydro Pump
    move 2: Growth
    move 3: Rest
    move 4: Sleep Talk / Acid Armor
    item: Leftovers

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> Vaporeon is a unique offensive Pokemon in GSC OU. It's a legitimate special threat that can take a hit and can set up with Growth. Unlike the legendary Electric-types that are GSC's other prominent Sspecial threats, Vaporeon is more geared towards setting up and sweeping rather than scoring opportunistic KOs. Unlike other reliable setup Pokemon such as Curse Snorlax, Vaporeon sets up on the special side, makingwhich makes it immune to stall tactics such as Growl and Charm. Unlike more daring setup Pokemon such as Belly Drum Snorlax and Swords Dance Marowak, Vaporeon is able to break stall while having an easy-to-use setup move and the ability to take hits itself.</p>

    <p>Vaporeon's STAB is the choice between reliability and power. Hydro Pump is great for wall breaking. It can 3HKO Snorlax after a single Growth, and it also does 36-43% to Raikou without a boost, meaning that if Spikes are down and Vaporeon's Hydro Pumps connects, Raikou can only afford to switch in once before having to use Rest. Surf, on the other hand, isn't going to miss when you've got Vaporeon going, and doesn't suffer from Hydro Pump's horrendous 8PP, which means that Vaporeon doesn't have to risk running out of PP against threats such as Suicune and Blissey. Growth is the whole point of the set, allowing Vaporeon to take advantage of its good defenses and set up the sweep. Rest keeps it alive and gives it the longevity that allows it to play defense and to set up when needed. As for the fourth move, Sleep Talk is the standard and keeps Vaporeon available to tank hits from Ground- and Rock-type Pokemon that Vaporeon would otherwise struggle to repeatedly switch in against. Furthermore, Sleep Talk also minimizes downtime when trying to set up. Acid Armor, however, makes the Vaporeon sweep more likely once the opponent's Electric-type is gone by beating CurseLax in a head-to-head matchup. Acid Armor is also nice for PP wars with its incredible 63PP, and it of course buffers Vaporeon against other dangerous physical attackers such as Heracross, Machamp, and Explosion users.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Vaporeon loves a little support to sweep more easily. Pursuit users such as Tyranitar and Umbreon get rid of Exeggutor, who that otherwise resists Water-type attacks while having the offensive prowess to force Vaporeon out. Tyranitar in particular can also chip away at Zapdos and Raikou, whoich force Vaporeon out with strong STAB Electric-type moves, but can be rendered unable to switch in on Vaporeon with some residual damage. Other great partners for Vaporeon are offensive Explosion users.: Exeggutor and Steelix frequently target Zapdos with their Explosions; Gengar frequently takes down Raikou; Steelix and SelfDestruct Snorlax can take out Roar Suicune; and Cloyster has a good chance of taking down any of the aforementioned threats. Furthermore, paralyzing Raikou and weakening Snorlax can go a long way towards helping Vaporeon pick up the pieces. Thunder or Thunder Wave from Zapdos or even your own Raikou can paralyze an opposing Raikou, while the combination of Toxic and Spikes will ultimately force Snorlax to Rest, giving Vaporeon an opening to set up against it.</p>

    <p>When using Vaporeon in the early -game, it's vital to use prediction to beat its checks. When you predict an Electric-type switch-in, use Vaporeon's STAB move; even without a boost, Vaporeon's STAB does a lot of damage to Zapdos and Raikou, especially if Vaporeon is using Hydro Pump. When you expect Snorlax, use Growth. Vaporeon isn't scaring Snorlax with an unboosted STAB move, but Snorlax isn't instantly forcing Vaporeon out either, especially not Acid Armor variants, so having the Special Attack boost can put a Snorlax switch-in in a pretty awkward position, especially if Vaporeon is touting Hydro Pump's potential 3HKO. If some other wall such as Roar Suicune or a high-health Exeggutor is going to switch in, Vaporeon should duck out and give the opportunity to another Pokemon to do its damage. Suicune is a fine double-switch opportunity for Roar Raikou to start Spikes shuffling or Cloyster to set up its Spikes, whereas Exeggutor is put in a bind if you predict and double-switch to a Pursuit user such as Tyranitar. If the opponent has none of these available, Vaporeon is free to sweep, so just set up Growths and finish the job. Yes, this includes if the opponent is using Blissey to try to wall Vaporeon, as Blissey cannot stop Vaporeon from setting up to the point where a single Critical Hit can destroy it, never mind the fact that Vaporeon wins most stall wars against Blissey by virtue of Growth's titanic PP count.</p>

    <p>Vaporeon can use other moves effectively in th e last moveslot. Roar ruins Roar Suicune because Roar in GSC favors the slower user. Roar Suicune otherwise hardwalls all but last-Pokemon Vaporeon, so being able to get past Suicune is an excellent perk. Roar also allows Vaporeon to win mirror matches and can also be used to Spikes-shuffle because Vaporeon's ability to set up forces a lot of switches. Ice Beam is an excellent coverage option for destroying Exeggutor, Dragonite, and Zapdos, whoich are otherwise exceptional checks to Vaporeon. The ability to freeze foes such as Suicune and Blissey can also facilitate a sweep. However, Sleep Talk or Acid Armor is generally the way to go.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>As for options in the fourth moveslot of the main set, Vaporeon has a couple of okay options other than the ones listed. Hidden Power Electric 3HKOes Suicune as well as other Vaporeon at +1 and also wrecks the odd Tentacruel looking for a free boost. Blizzard is also an option as it can 2HKO Zapdos without a boost and OHKOes Exeggutor about 50% of the time at +1 after factoring accuracy. However, Blizzard’s low PP and accuracy are major turnoffs.</p>

    <p>A Baton Pass set could work. In this case, Vaporeon is best off forgoing Rest for Acid Armor as a second stat boost to pass. Good recipients include Zapdos, Raikou, and Exeggutor. Growth boosts the recipient's Special Attack to scary levels, while Acid Armor boosts Defense enough to render the normally scary Snorlax unable to do meaningful damage in return. Baton Pass Vaporeon can also effectively use Curse to pass Attack boosts to physical threats such as Machamp or Substitute to go for multiple boosts against Electric-types that use Thunder as their STAB. Vaporeon is a great user of Baton Pass, because, aside from Roar Suicune, no other popular phazer is capable of stopping Vaporeon from passing its boosts without taking a lot of damage from a boosted Hydro Pump or Surf. However, if Suicune bothers you on a Baton Pass set, using Roar to pass Growths against it is a viable strategy. Regardless, Raikou will usually make life difficult for a Baton Pass set. While it can't comfortably use Roar directly against Vaporeon without taking a lot of damage in return, it will do tons of damage to Vaporeon if it decides to stay in against Raikou, and it can tank most special attackers, even at +1, while dealing good damage in return or comfortably phazing them. Zapdos also makes life tough for Baton Pass Vaporeon; it doesn't tank +1 Special Attackers the way Raikou can, but it also does heavy damage to Vaporeon if it decides to stay in to use its slower Baton Pass, thereby effectively preventing Vaporeon from trying again later in the match.</p>

    <p>Of course, the classic pre-Growth defensive Vaporeon set of Rest, Surf, Haze, and Reflect is an option for those who want a Suicune with worse defenses but better support moves. However, Vaporeon is better off using Growth to play offense than it is trying to be Suicune, especially since it was BL before the advent of Growth.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Most of Vaporeon's common checks don’t wall it completely, but rather threaten to smash its face in. Zapdos and Raikou are the most common checks and can 2HKO with their STABs. They can't take too many Surfs or Hydro Pumps on the switch, though. Snorlax is the second most common answer to Vaporeon, but it's a shaky check. Snorlax is 3HKOed by a +1 Hydro Pump and Acid Armor variants of Vaporeon beat it outright without relying on a move with iffy accuracy. Exeggutor is a good stop-gap against Vaporeon but won’t last forever. It's easily targeted by Pursuit, dies quickly to Ice Beam variants of Vaporeon, and if Spikes are down it will eventually be put into +1 Surf or Hydro Pump KO range. Cloyster can outspeed Vaporeon and Explode on it, but Cloyster isn’t doing anything to stop Vaporeon without sacrificing itself with Explosion. Gengar 3HKOes with an Electric move, can Explode, and can always-type attack, Explode, or use Destiny Bond if things go south, although it struggles mightily to take Vaporeon’s attacks. As for less common checks, Tentacruel resists anything Vaporeon can throw at it and sets up a counter-sweep with Swords Dance. Dragonite resists Surf and threatens Vaporeon with Thunder and Double-Edge, but loses to Ice Beam variants. Heracross outspeeds Vaporeon and very narrowly misses out on 2HKOing it at full health, although Acid Armor mitigates this damage and Heracross has trouble switching into Vaporeon.</p>

    <p>While Vaporeon is usually countered by using high damage output, there are quite a few Pokemon that hardwall it entirely. Roar Suicune is the most common full stop to Vaporeon, although it fails to stop last-Pokemon Vaporeon or variants that use Roar themselves. Suicune can also play to freeze Vaporeon with both Ice Beam and Mirror Coat, with Mirror Coat keeping Vaporeon too scared to attack while Suicune tries to freeze it. Aside from Suicune, Light Screen Blissey can pass Special Defense boosts to teammates such as Zapdos to more easily force Vaporeon out. It can also try to outstall Vaporeon, but Blissey will usually lose the PP war and, on turns when Light Screen wears off, a combination of a high damage roll and a Critical Hit from a +5 Surf will put Blissey in KO range for Vaporeon on the following turn. Vaporeon could also use Ice Beam to freeze Blissey. At the very least, Light Screen Blissey will make life difficult for Hydro Pump Vaporeon. Starmie resists Surf and can use Thunder hoping for three consecutive hits to 3HKO Vaporeon or Light Screen to flat-out stall Vaporeon out of PP. As for less common hardwalls to Vaporeon, Meganium walls Vaporeon forever with Leech Seed, Synthesis, and possibly Light Screen, although Ice Beam Vaporeon can beat it. In addition, Kingdra Curses in Vaporeon's face, uses Haze, or even goes for the freeze with Ice Beam while only being 5HKOed by +5 Surfs, although it can be 2HKOed by heavily boosted Ice Beams or stalled out by Acid Armor variants.</p>

    <p>Furthermore, Vaporeon can check itself. Even after switching in to give the opposing Vaporeon an advantage, a Sleep Talking Vaporeon has roughly even odds of beating an opposing Vaporeon in a mirror match, and even better odds if the opposing Vaporeon is not a Sleep Talking variant. +4 Surf and +3 Hydro Pump 3HKO s an opposing Vaporeon, so know this before you stop setting up and start attacking. Alternatively, you can just use Roar so that you can just phaze opposing Vaporeon after you gather a couple of boosts in the Growth war.</p>

    <p>The most common checks to Vaporeon are those that threaten to outdamage it rather than those that will wall it for eternity. For this reason, you should keep in mind that you should show Vaporeon different looks when playing against it in the likely scenario that you are without one of its hardwalls. If you fail to mix up which Pokemon you send in to greet Vaporeon, your Electric-type could end up taking too many Surfs or Hydro Pumps to be able to switch in again, or your Snorlax could be looking down the barrel of a 3HKO as Vaporeon uses Growth on the switch.</p>


    Great Job!

    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  22. Alexander.

    Alexander.

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,840
    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
    - Ice Beam
    - Growth
    - Surf
    - Rain Dance

    I'd put this Vaporeon's set in OO, it's so gimmick but can works, Rain dance supports some sweeper
    (Pinsir to do a stupid example, but any pokèmon which is weak to Fire, works better under rain, obviously), and with Growth it can do a "mini sweep". Surf is a strong stab and Ice Beam hits the grass types.

    And I'd add Moltres at the good
    recipients for the baton pass set (always in OO)

    (Rest Talk Moltres with Fire Blast/Flamethrower and HP Grass)

    PS: Also the Thunder users appreciate the rain (Zapdos, Raikou, etc)
  23. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Hey there I've implemented the GP check. Sorry it took so long, I just hadn't had a chance to read through this again because of real-life essay-writing. I also trimmed out some rather superfluous text while reading through this. I hope you don't mind.

    Also Rain Dance Vaporeon is not a very good set and Moltres is too gimmicky to recommend as a good recipient for Baton Pass. Thanks for the input, though!

    EDIT: One question: you inserted &mdash; into the parts where em-, rather than en-, dashes should be. I inserted actual em-dashes, does Smogon handle that or should I just use &mdash?
  24. Yonko7

    Yonko7 Guns make you stupid. Duct tape makes you smart.
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    As far as I know, having &mdash;blah;&mdash is how SCMS works, rather than just having an mdash.
  25. Oglemi

    Oglemi THE DREAM IS REAL
    is a Tournament Directoris a member of the Site Staffis a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris an Administratoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
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    just having the actual emdashes works too lol, sandz is just a hardass and demands the use of the html code when he does stuff

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