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Venomoth (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Flashrider57, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Before any mod decides to delete this because this is my second update within a week, whistle said that I could post this update whenever I wanted, as I was really enthusiastic about it, and Heysup has agreed that I can do this update as long as I can keep up with both this and Hypno. Anyway, the reason I’m putting this through QC is because I’m wondering about the viability of the Double Powder set, and I’m also getting Venomoth’s LO Sweeper (thanks to FlareBlitz!) through as well. This update is actually based off of Dark Talon’s update, which can be found here. It never got uploaded, and was in need of modernization. If I miss anything important, feel free to tell me!

    QC Approved: 2/2 (FlareBlitz) (Bluewind)
    QC Rejected: 0/2
    GP Checks: 1/2 (Flora)
    _________________________________
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/venomoth

    [Overview]
    <p>Venomoth is usually considered inferior to other Pokémon, due to its NU status and Bug-typing. If one looks past these “disadvantages”, however, one will find that Venomoth can prove to be a consistently useful team member. This fragile-looking moth has many advantages, the most prominent being Tinted Lens, an ability that helps Venomoth hit so-called “counters” hard, by turning 4x resistances into 2x resistances, and 2x resistances into neutral hits. Tinted Lens gives Venomoth unresisted coverage against every UU and NU Pokémon except Shedinja. Combine that coverage with good Special Attack and Speed stats, and Venomoth becomes a force to be reckoned with. Venomoth’s usefulness doesn’t end with offense, though. It can also prove to be a good supporter, boasting 4x resistances to Grass and Fighting, Sleep Powder, Toxic Spikes, Stun Spore, Baton Pass, and Sunny Day. With a number of ways to fit into a team, Venomoth is living proof that Bug-types aren’t as weak as they are commonly thought to be.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Life Orb Sweeper
    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: Psychic / Substitute
    move 3: Sleep Powder
    move 4: Roost
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Tinted Lens
    nature: Timid
    evs: 8 HP / 248 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>What sets Venomoth apart from other Bug-types is its ability, Tinted Lens, which allows Venomoth to have an easier time sweeping. In conjunction with its ability, Venomoth can run a sweeping set with Bug Buzz and Psychic, two of Venomoth’s most powerful attacks. Venomoth also has Sleep Powder to sleep enemies that attempt to counter the moth. Roost allows Venomoth to heal off damage from Life Orb, entry hazards, and the Grass or Fighting moves that Venomoth loves to switch into. Substitute can be used over Psychic to ease prediction, but it takes away the coverage that Psychic provides alongside Bug Buzz.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> Rapid Spin support is necessary due to Stealth Rock weakness in addition to Life Orb's recoil. Hitmontop is Venomoth's best partner, removing Stealth Rock, Chansey, and Registeel all by itself. Donphan is a viable alternative to Hitmontop, as it possesses essentially the same attributes. This set also appreciates Wish support, since it will be steadily losing health with each attack. Clefable and Chansey are both excellent choices, especially since their lone Fighting-type weakness is covered by Venomoth's 4x resistance.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Moth of Choice
    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: Psychic
    move 3: U-turn
    move 4: Sleep Powder
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Tinted Lens
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Choice sets are dangerous on many Pokémon, Choiced Venomoth is far more dangerous; this is thanks to Tinted Lens, which makes it harder for opponents to switch in on predicted moves. Bug Buzz and Psychic are Venomoth’s main attacking moves, as they provide great coverage (thanks to Tinted Lens) and power. U-turn allows Venomoth to scout out the opponent, allowing you to switch in a counter and gain momentum. Sleep Powder rounds off the set by allowing Venomoth to cripple enemies, giving other teammates the chance to sweep.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Maxing Speed and Special Attack EVs allow Venomoth to outpace many Pokémon, such as Nidoking and Blaziken, while hitting as hard as possible. The four remaining EVs are dumped into Defense so that Venomoth can switch into Stealth Rock four times without fainting. Tinted Lens gives Bug Buzz and Psychic's combination excellent coverage in UU. If a Choice Scarf is being used, the nature can be changed to Modest, since Venomoth will still outrun every non-boosted Pokémon in UU, including Hasty Electrode. It also helps that Venomoth has a 4x resistance to the common priority move Mach Punch.</p>

    <p>Once again, Venomoth greatly appreciates Rapid Spin support. Hitmontop is still a prime candidate as a teammate, because it can do severe damage to both Registeel and Chansey, Venomoth's best counters, while also spinning away Stealth Rock. Donphan is an excellent option as it can also perform the same job as Hitmontop. Houndoom can switch into Psychic- and Fire-type attacks aimed at Venomoth and can also hurt Registeel, but is helpless against Chansey.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Venomous Moth
    move 1: Toxic Spikes
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Bug Buzz
    move 4: Psychic / Roost
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Timid
    evs: 156 HP / 120 SpA / 232 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Venomoth is one of the only viable users of Toxic Spikes, as it has reliable ways of preventing the enemy from foiling its plan. Sleep Powder puts the enemy to sleep, giving Venomoth the opportunity to set up Toxic Spikes on the switch. Bug Buzz and Psychic are Venomoth’s obligatory attacking moves, and Psychic has the additional advantage of discouraging opposing Poison-types from switching in to absorb your Toxic Spikes. Roost can be used over Psychic if you are worried about Venomoth's survivability. This set can function better as a lead with Focus Sash as an option. However, weak attacks such as U-turn prevent it will break it, leaving Venomoth with a "useless" item. It is also possible to use this Venomoth as a mid-game Toxic Spikes supporter, but Stealth Rock and Spikes on your side ruin Venomoth. 156 HP EVs give Venomoth some bulk and a Leftovers number. 232 Speed EVs allow Venomoth to outrun LO Hitmonlee, and the rest are dumped into Special Attack for more offensive potential.</p>


    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dugtrio is an excellent partner to this Venomoth, as it can trap Poison-types not named Venusaur or Weezing that would otherwise absorb Toxic Spikes and kill them. However, Venomoth can probably deal with them on its own, thanks to Psychic and Sleep Powder. Venomoth also appreciates Houndoom and Blaziken as partners, as they can deal with opponents crippled by Toxic, most notably Milotic. Nidoking can defeat grounded Poison-types easily, and it can also sweep a team that has been sufficiently worn down by Venomoth. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Double Powder
    move 1: Sleep Powder
    move 2: Stun Spore
    move 3: Bug Buzz
    move 4: Psychic / Roost
    item: Leftovers / Wide Lens
    ability: Tinted Lens
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Sleep Powder is Venomoth’s main status move, it also has access to Stun Spore, allowing Venomoth to become an effective double status user. After being slept, many enemies believe that they can switch in on a predicted Toxic Spikes or double switch, only to become crippled by Stun Spore. Bug Buzz and Psychic allow Venomoth to hurt debilitated opponents, leaving the opponent’s team vulnerable for another teammate to sweep. Roost can be used over Psychic to give Venomoth a reliable recovery move so it can survive longer.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Timid makes Venomoth fast enough to accomplish its duty, and max Special Attack, combined with Tinted Lens, allow it to hit as hard as possible. Leftovers allow Venomoth to survive longer so that it can cripple more members of the opposing team. Wide Lens can be used if Roost has replaced Psychic, and if you are worried about Sleep Powder's and Stun Spore's accuracy. If more power is desired, Life Orb can be used, although Venomoth's other sets are able to make more use of it. An alternative spread of 240 HP/16 SpA/252 Spe can make Venomoth more bulky, so it can at least survive some hits should its status moves miss.</p>

    <p>This Venomoth should be paired with a Pokémon that can take advantage of a mostly-disabled opposing team. Blaziken and Houndoom can both switch into Fire-type attacks relatively easily, and set up while the opponent switches. Houndoom has the added bonus of being immune to the Psychic-type attacks that could easily KO Venomoth. Spinners such as Hitmontop and Donphan can keep Venomoth alive for longer by removing Stealth Rock. Finally, Wish support from Clefable or Chansey, both of which can also take special Fire- and Psychic-type attacks with ease, will allow Venomoth to keep switching in to hurt or cripple opponents.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Hitmontop is a great partner to Venomoth, as it can spin away Stealth Rock while also eliminating Chansey and Registeel, two Pokémon that Venomoth hates to face. However, it is also weak to Psychic, meaning that a Dark-type teammate is essential as well. Houndoom can switch in on any Psychic- or Fire-type move directed at Venomoth while setting up Nasty Plot on the switch, making Houndoom a major threat to the enemy; it also lures in Fighting-types, which Venomoth can handle with ease. Unfortunately, Houndoom does not appreciate Stealth Rock, which Hitmontop can effortlessly. In fact, a Hitmontop/Venomoth/Houndoom trio can work very well, easily threatening many teams.</p>

    <p>Other Fighting-types, most notably Hitmonlee, Hariyama, and Blaziken, can help to finish off Pokémon that Venomoth can't kill, while benefitting from Venomoth's ability to cripple a team. Rhyperior deals with Fire-, Flying-, and Rock-types, while also luring in Fighting- and Grass-types for Venomoth to switch into; Rhyperior also appreciates Venomoth’s ability to soften up the opponent’s team. Dugtrio kills off Chansey and Registeel easily, and can absorb incoming Thunder Waves. Claydol can switch into Rock- and Psychic-type attacks, while also spinning away Stealth Rock and setting up its own. It also threatens the Chansey/Registeel duo, with Explosion for the former and STAB Earth Power for the latter. Donphan is another great partner that can function just like Claydol. Ludicolo and Lanturn can defeat Milotic easily, while also deterring Fire-types from switching in. Ironically, Milotic makes a good teammate, defeating Fire-types such as Arcanine and Moltres, while luring in Grass-types, which are beaten by Venomoth.</p>


    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Venomoth has a good amount of options other than the ones listed in the sets. Shield Dust, Venomoth’s other ability, allows Venomoth to take on moves such as Hariyama’s Force Palm without fear of secondary effects. It can also use Silver Powder or Insect Plate over Life Orb on the first set, but the damage output will be noticably lower. A Baton Pass set is viable on Venomoth, and works very well with Agility. Unfortunately, Sleep Powder is the only niche that separates Venomoth from other Baton Passers. Sludge Bomb is a good choice on the offensive sets, as it gets STAB and is pretty powerful. Protect and U-Turn can be used over Bug Buzz and Psychic on the Toxic Spikes lead set, allowing Venomoth to function as a scout. However, this requires a different set of EVs and nature in order to be more defensive. Venomoth also can potentially use Sunny Day well, and it can learn SolarBeam and Morning Sun to benefit from it. However, this only increases the danger of enemy Fire-types switching in. Venomoth also learns Screech, but it can’t make effective use of it due to its bad Attack stat and pitiful physical movepool. Energy Ball is another option, but it is only useful against bulky Water- and Rock-types.</p>


    [Counters]

    <p>Chansey takes Venomoth’s special attacks comfortably, thanks to its massive HP and high Special Defense stats, as well as access to instant recovery with Wish and Softboiled. It also threatens Venomoth with Thunder Wave, drastically reducing the fragile moth’s effectiveness. Additionally, it can take Sleep Powder with no troubles at all as a result of Natural Cure. Registeel also takes on Venomoth’s attacks easily, and threatens it with Iron Head against Venomoth’s weaker Defense stat. It can also Thunder Wave Venomoth and set up Stealth Rock to discourage it from switching in again. The iron giant doesn’t appreciate being slept, though.</p>

    <p>Drapion also has potential to ruin Venomoth’s fun. It can get a free switch-in on Psychic, proceed to outspeed Venomoth, and then threaten it with Earthquake. As a plus, Drapion has the advantage of absorbing Toxic Spikes upon switching in, making all of Venomoth's set-up go to waste. Milotic, with its high HP and Special Defense stats, can wall Venomoth, and being slept makes it even harder to defeat with physically attacking teammates. It doesn’t appreciate switching into Toxic Spikes, though. Moltres hates being put to sleep, but if another teammate can take Sleep Powder for it, then Venomoth’s best option is to flee, as Moltres resists Bug Buzz thanks to its Fire/Flying typing, and STAB Fire Blast and Air Slash force Venomoth to hide until the fiery bird disappears.</p>

  2. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Just a few nitpicks as I skim this

    Vemomous moth should be a lead because I find that it's pretty effective at it; at least when I tested it, being able to shut down pretty much all SR/hazard leads or hit them super effectively. If you do change it or make a mention, put in Focus Sash.

    Moltres shits on Venomoth, and Arcanine can be annoying as well, so mention Milotic as a teammate. Venomoth screws over Venusaur so they work well together.

    Hitmonlee and other Fighting-types (probably Hariyama) should get a mention in Team options since they pair well together.

    Also why is there no mention of Growth?

    Bah nvm it doesn't get Growth; thought it did.
  3. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Implemented Thund's changes except the Fighting-type one, because Fighting-types lure in Psychic and Flying moves, neither of which Venomoth likes at all. Hitmontop is on there because it can use Rapid Spin effectively, which increases Venomoth's survivability. Any more comments?
  4. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Personally I'd give Venomoth a more defensive spread and possibly Roost as well if it's going to lead with Toxic Spikes, just so it can get two layers up more often. Max speed may not be necessary - Uxie is generally un-EV'ed in speed, while Qwilfish is slower than Venomoth. There aren't common leads that Venomoth needs max speed to outrun / tie with. That said I've not tried it so I can't be sure.

    With Heracross in the tier and seeking to snatch a Guts boost at every opportunity, is it wise to even have a Toxic Spikes set?

    Otherwise two random GP-isque stuff: Dugtrio can't trap Weezing either, but then again Weezing doesn't absorb Toxic Spikes, so ... also you call Venomoth's speed both "good" (in the overview) and "average" (when explaining the EVs).

    PS: I wonder if Agility makes for a good slash with the first set? Sleep something, Agility as they switch out and go for the late-game sweep. Maybe ...
    PPS: There're better Agility passers in UU, such as Lopunny or Gligar, although they can't put Pokemon to sleep. You might want to mention that.
  5. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Fixed the problems that you identified. Also, I'm not too good with EVs, so I would appreciate anyone else who is good with them to find some alternate spreads for the Toxic Spikes set. Additionally, Heracross is just one Pokemon, and I don't think that the presence of a single Pokemon in UU warrants the scrapping of a good set. I will agree that it is pretty annoying (especially since it messed with my testing of a new Hypno set), but Heracross can be beaten. Finally, I see where you're coming from with Roost. The problem is that many Poison-types will be switching into Toxic Spikes, and Venomoth needs Psychic to deal with them. Bug Buzz is a powerful move that Venomoth needs at its disposal, and Sleep Powder cripples Pokemon such as Moltres, Registeel, and Mismagius, which aren't affected by Toxic Spikes, and can cause problems for your teammates if they aren't weakened.
  6. Banedon

    Banedon

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    So the common leads are Ambipom, Uxie / Mesprit, Omastar, Cloyster, Spiritomb, Electrode, Hippostas, Snover and Alakazam. Ambipom you can't do anything against unless you don't mind sacrificing Venomoth. Qwilfish is easily 2HKO'ed by Psychic. You could go all in with SpA to have a chance of OHKO, but then lead Qwilfish will have a Focus Sash so I don't see the point. Alakazam is easily 2HKO'ed by Bug Buzz except it obviously outspeeds. I think you have to run against Alakazam. The lead Mesprit set on sit is 2HKO'ed by Bug Buzz easily as well without investment into SpA. Finally there's Uxie. Uxie being Uxie is hardly ever 2HKO'ed by anything. 252 SpA Timid Bug Buzz vs. 252/0 Uxie is 52.5% - 61.6%, which doesn't guarantee a 2HKO through Leftovers, but there's a good chance of it. You can attack the other leads, but you would want to set up Toxic Spikes on them (you might want to set up Toxic Spikes against Uxie / Mesprit as well, although there's a good chance they'll U-turn to Venusaur or similar) so they're not very important. Come to think of it Venusaur, despite not being a common lead, should be an important factor as well. Following are relevant calculations:

    With 0 SpA, Psychic vs. 0/0 Venusaur = 39.9% - 47.2% chance to 2HKO with SR, but you're not likely to have SR since Venomoth's a lead, so ...
    With 252 SpA, Psychic vs. 0/0 Venusaur = 51.2% - 60.5% guaranteed 2HKO.
    The threshold to 2HKO offensive Venusaur is 236 SpA when Psychic does 50.3% - 59.6%. I do not know if 2HKO'ing Venusaur is relevant, because aside from Sleep Powder Venusaur can't threaten Venomoth anyway. Defensive Venusaur easily survives, sadly. Even with 252 SpA you cannot guarantee a 2HKO on 252/0 Venusaur with SR after accounting for Leftovers: 42.3% - 50%.

    For speed the obvious Pokemon to outspeed is Jolly Qwilfish, for which you need 216 Speed EVs with a Timid nature.

    So how about this: 216 speed Timid, 252 HP and the rest into SpA / Defense? If 2HKO'ing Venusaur is a concern, then, 216 speed Timid, 236 SpA and rest into HP seems most natural.
  7. Thund91

    Thund91

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    .______.

    The fact is that even though they share weaknesses (one of which isn't that common, and the pixies won't switch into Venomoth), they're still a fabulous offensive core. By that type of logic Infernape + Lucario or Houndoom + Toxicroak should never be mentioned as partners because they share a very common Ground-type weakness, when they actually work excellent together.
  8. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    While I was on Shoddy, I battled Erazor, who talked to me about my Venomoth update. He explained to me the benefits of a Fighting-type teammate to Venomoth, and I've decided to add Fighting-types as good partners in Team Options. Anyway, I would like opinions on the sets themselves, to see whether they are viable or not, even though Venomoth might be able to use them all effectively.
  9. tophway

    tophway

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    I really like Venomoth but I am unsure about Pyschic taking up a dedicated moveslot on the leftovers sets. Outside of Blaziken, Toxicroak and Heracross, there are no Fighting or Poison pokes in UU that more than 2x resist Bug Buzz, and Psychic thusly only comes with 45 more base power. If you are concerned with those fighters, HP flying is a fine option as it hits Hera harder and it 2HKOs Blaziken just like Psychic. Toxicroak would be an issue if it had Stone Edge and you dropped Psychic, but as of Aug stats only 22% did, and HP flying 2HKOs anyways. No other bug resist is hit super effectively by Psychic. All this considering Venomoth is fast enough to sleep the things that can successfully absorb its Tinted Lens Bug Buzzes.

    LO Venu does risk a 2HKO from Psychic, but it really cant do anything to Venomoth other than sleep it, and on that token Venomoth can sleep it first. Additionally you can 3HKO spdef Weezing.

    I really think Roost is a better option on the leftovers sets, with a possible slash on the TSpikes one as trying to eliminate a poison typed mon that absorbs your hazard of choice might be worth the extra power. Resisting Venu's and Hera's stab attacks, as well as being faster with the ability to sleep or carry or a 4x super effective move warrants never choosing Psychic over Roost or HP Flying imo. However I am sleepy and maybe just not seeing the merits that Psychic brings against Fighting types? Only did a few calcs but I am not seeing Psychic do anything glorious, while fighters can OHKO you back with Stone Edge. And If they dont carry Stone Edge you can beat them with Roost anyways. Interested in hearing more pros for Psychic!
  10. YaM

    YaM

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    In your Overview section, you should reorder "Psychic and Bug Buzz" to "Bug Buzz and Psychic"

    In your Counters section, correct the spelling error of Registeel targeting Venomoth's "weker Defense stat". Also, Milotic's Marvel Scale only boosts its Def, not SpD so just remove "which can be even tougher if Milotic falls asleep and Marvel Scale is activated." Also, replace "Moltres hates being sleeped" with "Moltres hates being put to sleep".

    In your EVs section, 4 Def allows Venomoth to switch into Stealth Rock FOUR times, not five.

    I don't think you stress enough that Venomoth hits every Pokemon in UU/NU for neutral damage with two attacks. "Great" type coverage isn't a good enough a description..
  11. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Thanks for your comments! tophway, I'll put in Roost as a slash next to Psychic on both Lefties sets. YaM, I'll make those changes. What I mean about the Stealth Rock switch-in, though, is that it can switch into Stealth Rock five times, but it will get killed on the fifth, so I think you mean that Venomoth can switch into SR four times without dying. I'll also stress that the only Pokemon that beats Venomoth's coverage is Shedinja, and that Tinted Lens is an awesome ability.
  12. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Bump... I know Pokemon Black and White are out, but doesn't anyone still want to help out the 4th gen analyses?
  13. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Bump again...
  14. Banedon

    Banedon

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    Have you considered Silver Powder / Insect Plate? Since Venomoth has Tinted Lens, it does quite well with just Bug Buzz as its only attacking move (still walled by Moltres and such though). I think it deserves at least a slash on the Life Orb set, unless there's something LO Venomoth kills that Silver Powder does not.

    Also because of Tinted Lens I'd consider a set like this one:

    [SET]
    name: Subroost (<-- kind of a weird name though, since Subroost generally means "also has Toxic")
    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Substitute
    move 4: Roost
    item: Silver Powder
    ability: Tinted Lens
    nature: Timid
    evs: 4 HP/ 252 SpA/ 252 Spe

    Get Venomoth in safely, sleep something, sub as they switch out and then work from there. It looks reasonable, but I haven't tried it so I can't be sure.
  15. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    I'm not too sure about your set, Banedon. Venomoth needs the additional coverage offered by Psychic, and I haven't found Substitute too useful in the past. Also, your set's 4 HP EVs would need to be shifted to Defense, which would allow Venomoth to switch into Stealth Rock four times without dying. I will put Silver Powder in OO, though. Thanks for your input, though!

    EDIT: Also, Life Orb gives a 30% boost, while Insect Plate and Silver Powder both give only 20% boosts. The only advantage that Insect Plate and Silver Powder give is the lack of an HP cost.
  16. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I've tested and used a SubRoost set with Venomoth, and it's actually my favorite set.
  17. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    I haven't found SubRoost sets that good, but I'll give it another shot. If I find that it works this time around, I'll put it up. I would also like others to try it out, because I don't have a good record of testing new sets. I'll be using Banedon's set, with LO as its item and the HP EVs shifted towards Defense.
  18. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    Bump...I would appreciate more rates...
    Also, I found out what was wrong with my last SubRoost set: a Jolly Nature instead of Timid...Anyway, the one I'm testing right now is doing okay so far, but I could just be having a lucky streak...
  19. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    I've decided that I'll put up a SubRoost set on the update, as I've found it kinda effective. I can't put it up right now, as I'm kinda busy, but I can have it ready within about three hours. Basically, it'll be Banedon's set with the HP EVs shifted to Defense, and Life Orb/Silver Powder in the item option.

    EDIT: The SubRoost set is up.
  20. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    - Life Orb Sweeper: Maybe mention Substitute alongside Psychic. Fine otherwise.

    - Moth of Choice is fine.

    - The EVs for Venomous Moth say "216 Spd"...you mean speed, right? That should be Spe. Also, run enough to outrun Hitmonlee...I think 232 is required, but don't quote me on that. Make sure you're hitting a Leftovers number with the HP there; if you need to remove some to make that happen, stick them into SpA.

    - Double Powder is fine.

    This is looking good. Make my (minor) changes and I'll stamp this. You might want to start contacting GP members too.
  21. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    No mention of Sludge Bomb anywhere?? I'd much rather use Sludge Bomb over Psychic on the attacking sets, since it doesn't really get you any more coverage, and Sludge Bomb gets STAB.
  22. Flashrider57

    Flashrider57

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    @FlareBlitz: Changes implemented. Thanks for your comments!

    @Shrang: I see your point. However, Psychic and Bug Buzz give unresisted coverage, and Psychic allows you to deal with Fighting-types that you might switch into. Plus, Sludge Bomb allows Steels to get a free switch-in, while Psychic still hurts them (while also providing a small chance for a Special Defense drop). Sludge Bomb is in OO, but I'll move it up the list.

    EDIT: Also added in Wide Lens as an item option in Double Powder, if you're worried about the accuracy of Sleep Powder and Stun Spore. I found Wide Lens useful a while ago, but it should be used only if Psychic is replaced by Roost.

    EDIT2: Thanks, supermarth, for the post below this one! I do see a couple holes in it, though:
    Flying/Ghost-Drifblim
    Flying/Poison-Golbat (just saying)
    Toxicroak-Psychic OHKOs by itself
  23. supermarth64

    supermarth64 Here I stand in the light of day
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    There really is no need for Sludge Bomb, especially when you have Tinted Lens. The only time Sludge Bomb would matter is when Bug Buzz is 4x resisted (2x resisted due to Tinted Lens), which are these types:

    Fighting/Fire - Blaziken, Bug Buzz + Psychic 2HKOes, Sludge Bomb by itself 2HKOes.
    Fighting/Flying - None.
    Fighting/Ghost - None.
    Fighting/Poison - Toxicroak, Bug Buzz + Psychic 2HKOes, Sludge Bomb 2HKOes.
    Fighting/Steel - None.
    Fire/Flying - Moltres, probably the only one that matters because Sludge Bomb 2HKOes (OHKO after SR), while Moltres can force the speed tie and Bug Buzz + Psychic only KOes after SR.
    Fire/Ghost - None.
    Fire/Poison - None.
    Fire/Steel - None.
    Flying/Ghost - None.
    Flying/Poison - None.
    Flying/Steel - None.
    Ghost/Poison - Haunter, Sludge Bomb 2HKOes, Bug Buzz + Psychic 2HKOes.
    Ghost/Steel - None.
    Poison/Steel - None.

    Basically, Sludge Bomb would only be for Moltres and for the Poison chance. Meanwhile, Psychic can hit Fighting-types like the Hitmons, Blaziken, and Toxicroak along with Poison-types like Weezing, Venusaur, and other common mons. Otherwise, you're better off spamming Bug Buzz.
  24. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Drifblim/Moltres aren't worth Sludge Bomb.

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  25. Bluewind

    Bluewind My appearance, ability, and awesomeness strike fea
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    Everything seems ok to me, I'd just mention Venomoth isn't outright outclassed by other BPers because of Sleep Powder (in fact, I think it deserved a set of its own); and I'd also mention an alternative bulky spread for the Double Powder set with 252 HP instead of SAtk, making it easier for it so switch into things like Hitmontop (Technitop can hurt quite a bit) and such.

    [​IMG]

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