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VenomPass

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by BAD, Jul 14, 2013.

  1. BAD

    BAD

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    233
    Due to the large amount of requests to reveal the specifics of my team I have finally decided to do so. I have been tearing apart teams left and right on the UU ladder since creating this team. I have peaked to the top 20 on the ladder with a rating as high as 1950. This team is what I consider to be very unique and is one of the reasons why I love it so much. There are not many holes or weaknesses to this team because I have fought through over a 1000 matches against many different types of strategies, and with enough skill and experience this team is capable of handling anything in the UU tier.

    Here are my stats currently on the UU tier:

    User: badzioba
    FormatACREGXEGlicko2WLT
    Format Rating GXE Glicko2 W L T
    UU 1918 86 1970 ± 37 1203 352 4


    My rating has dropped a little due to fucking around with other types of teams. I like to troll people with my Riolu team every now and then for example. As you can see, I win most of my battles over 90% of the time. I lose with this team mainly due to hax, but other then that I am capable of crushing my opponents with consistency. So this team is indeed capable of causing havoc upon any foe you face in the UU tier so long as you are skilled enough to use this team. Now onto the team itself:

    VenomPass

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Purpose
    The main goal of this team is to pass Quiver Dances to at least 1 of 3 of my pokemon depending upon the situation. I will try to set up with Venomoth ASAP if the opportunity presents itself. The best part about this team is that it doesn't even really need Venomoth at all. If Veneomth falls in battle then that's ok, because this team can still easily win the match if you are skilled enough. This isn't a team that can easily be defeated if it's main win condition is KO'd.​
    In-Depth Analysis
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] Venomoth @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Wonderskin
    Nature: Timid
    EV's: 252 HP/252 Spe/4 SpD
    ~Bug Buzz
    ~Quiver Dance
    ~Sleep Powder
    ~Baton Pass

    This is one annoying motherfucker because of it's ability Wonderskin. Being able to set-up in your opponents face as they try to Roar/Whirlwind you away is hilarious as they miss. Phazing moves have essentially a 50% chance of working due to Wonderskin, so that ability is a MUST have. The only phazing move you have to watch out for is Dragon Tail, but most people prefer Roar though. Nature is Timid because I need max speed to put stuff to sleep in order to start setting up before my opponent gets to move. If I find an opportunity to set-up I will most likely do so without hesitation. Once Venomoth acquire's at least 2 Quiver Dances under his belt it's usually GG from there. All it takes is 2 dances for 1 of my 2 sweepers on the team to demolish the opposing team unless they have a specific special wall like Umbreon. With enough Quiver Dances, even Venomoth could start sweeping teams by itself.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Abilities: Pressure
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Heat Wave
    ~Hidden Power Grass
    ~Roost

    Zapdos is one of my main sweepers. Being an Electric/Flying type nullifies it's weakness to Ground attacks and gives it helpful resistance's with no further weakness than what the Flying type brings. Zapdos's typing and massive special attack is why I chose for this pokemon to be on my team. Moves are standard with Roost to help Zapdos survivability. HP Grass takes care of Swampert and the likes thinking they can stop my sweep. I chose Modest because I want to do as much damage as possible with the Quiver boosts that Zapdos will receive from Venomoth. Leftovers over Life Orb because I find that Zapdos dies too quickly with Life Orb.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Bold
    EV's: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
    ~Scald
    ~Roar
    ~Sleep Talk
    ~Rest

    Suicune is my bulky water type that tanks hits from the physical side of things like Ambipom, Rhyperior, Miensho, and the other various types of physically based Pokemon. If I feel like I can't safely switch into either Zapdos or Nidoking, then I will start passing my Quiver Dances to Suicune. Being able to Roar is important to get rid of pests that think they can either stall or set-up on me. Rest + Sleep Talk is used for survivability. I don't need Calm Mind on Suicune due to the fact that I can pass Quiver Dances to him if I so desire. Passing Quiver Dances makes Suicune the ultimate wall with huge special defenses and physical defenses and along with Rest makes Toxic less of a problem for him to handle.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Nidoking @ Life Orb
    Ability: Sheer Force
    Nature: Modest
    EV's: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
    ~Earth Power
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Thunderbolt

    Bow down to the King, the almighty Nidoking! Immune to both Thunder Wave and Toxic are great immunities coupled with taking Rock and Fighting based attacks relatively well. This makes Nidoking relatively easy to pass Quiver Dances to. With Nidoking receiving Sheer Force, he can attack without the Life Orb recoil which is a huge plus. Nidoking has great coverage and with just 1 Quiver Dance he can wreck havoc. Getting at least 2 Quiver Dances makes Nidoking seal the game for me usually. Modest is chosen over Timid because I prefer the power boost over speed which I can easily fix by just passing a Quiver Dance.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Cobalion @ Leftovers
    Ability: Justified
    Nature: Jolly
    EV's: 252 HP/232 Spe/28 Atk
    ~Close Combat
    ~Volt Switch
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Thunder Wave

    Cobalion is my Steal Rock setter as well as my answer to Umbreon or Snorlax. Thunder Wave is used if I want to cripple something that might be problematic in the future. Cobalion is pretty bulky and lasts pretty well throughout the match. Cobalion is a good utility pokemon on my team and find that he fits his role perfectly on my team.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    Nature: Calm
    EV's: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Def
    ~Foul Play
    ~Heal Bell
    ~Wish
    ~Protect

    Umbreon is my special wall and he fits that role perfectly. Being able to pass Wishes and heal the status's of my team makes Umbreon a good team player. What more is there to say?

    Conclusion

    My main win condition is Venomoth passing Quiver Dances to either Nidoking, Zapdos, or Suicune. I have a physical wall which is Suicune, and a special wall which is Umbreon. My phazer is Suicune. My main sweepers are Zapdos and Nidoking. Cobalion is my utility pokemon to set Stealth Rock and kill off special walls that stop my sweepers from sweeping. All in all, it's a pretty balanced team that is capable of reacting and countering different types of other teams and strategies. Here is a video of one of my battles so that you my readers can see the team in action:

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-39555841

    Yes, that is a typical match for me. Set up at least 2 Quiver Dances and it's usually GG from there. I could show more what I could do with the team without VenomPassing, but the whole point of this thread was to show you the main strategy of my team and there it is. Also for the lolz:

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-38156843

    This is me just dicking around. Anyway, does anyone have any constructive criticism for me? Or are all of you peons in utter and complete awe of how perfect my team is?
    scotti likes this.
  2. scotti

    scotti

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2013
    Messages:
    344
    I love the team Bad, first off let me congratulate you on your rank it is pretty good. Anyway let me go on to the rate. Well this team is really solid so i really can't find anything that is wrong with it, but i do have a nitpick. I think you should run Timid on Nidoking, so scarfers like Chandelure, Heracross, and Honkrow can't outspeed you. Though it may not seem that important it could really help in some situations.
  3. Kitten Milk

    Kitten Milk [22:59:31] <KittenUU> 241 of which are fellacious
    is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    893
    I have a couple of beefs with this RMT, and they aren't necessarily to do with the members of the team itself.

    For starters, you can't start an RMT out with "I only lose while playing with this team against hax", and then upload a replay later - of a team that isn't even the one being rated, no less - in which you win due to triple parahax and say "U mad bro?".

    Furthermore, your win/loss ratio is 1205/354, accounting for ties. This gives you a win loss ratio of 3.4, in other words a 77% win percentage (yet you say that you have an over 90% win percentage). This certainly isn't bad, but it can also definitely be improved. Coming into an RMT with the attitude of nothing being changeable and just showing off how perfect your team is isn't going to win you any friends, nor many constructive rates.

    You should also be notified that RMT rules require that all descriptions be at least three lines long. You seem to have gotten progressively lazier throughout the RMT; your descriptions are fine until you get to Cobalion and Umbreon. Remember that descriptions could also include things like moves you previously had, pokes that you replaced it with, why you didn't choose specific moves/EV spreads, etc etc.

    Anyway, on to the actual rate.

    You said that you commonly get 2 Quiver Dances up. With +2, Zapdos can OHKO everything in the tier after SR except for 8-10 pokes. It's worth noting that only a couple of the top 20 least damaged pokemon are OHKOd by Heat Wave and nothing else. Furthermore, they are the likes of Nidoqueen, Registeel, and Eelektross (who actually isn't even KOed), pokes that can't really do too much to Zapdos at +2 SpD anyway. For this reason, you could actually swap out Heat Wave for Volt Switch. It seems weird on a Baton Pass team, but it gives you a little bit more viability if Venomoth goes down unexpectedly and you need to still maintain a win condition. It's worth noting that it also gives you a nice Volt core with Cobalion, and Cobalion and Zapdos cover each others weaknesses remarkably well.

    On the same note, have you ever considered swapping out Black Sludge for Focus Sash on venomoth? I know the trend is to have the consistent recovery so you can perhaps use venomoth more than once, but I always found it better to get off one guaranteed pass. Furthermore, Focus Sash lets you do things like, say, lead against a Scarf Victini, Quiver Dance as they V-Create, outspeed and sleep them, and then get off a second quiver or just baton pass out to get the switch advantage. Just a thought, that's really more personal preference than anything else. It is worth considering purely because your team can perform outside of Baton Pass, so the strategy can be used less as the sole win condition and more as a way to break through a couple walls and destroy a couple of things.

    For Nidoking, have you considered running flamethrower over Fire Blast? It's sort of the same thing as Zapdos - at +2 you aren't netting any important kills with Fire Blast that you wouldn't be with Flamethrower. Flamethrower is, however, 100% accurate which could mean the difference between a successful sweep and a lucky break for your opponent.

    Other than that, I see a small weakness to banded Victini, who can rip through even Suicune with a well-predicted Bolt Strike, LO Mienshao, who outspeeds your entire time before a quiver dance and can easily OHKO at least three of its members, and perhaps Shaymin, especially variants running psychic.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this team sucks in any way. I just don't appreciate it when people post RMTs for the pure sake of bragging without even considering that there may very well be improvements to their team. This team is really good, and the ladder ranking is proof that it can perform pretty well in the UU environment. That said, if you get enough constructive criticism, you may be able to adapt this team to reach even higher on the ladder. Best of luck with everything =)
    Shy Glizzy, TROP, Aecor and 1 other person like this.
  4. Aecor

    Aecor

    Joined:
    May 21, 2012
    Messages:
    186
    Man, Quiver Pass takes a ton of skill:
    http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/uu-37161479


    This man is right, don't be so cocky. You rely on Quiver passing to win. There are better baton pass teams, like the ones from Psych and he doesn't boast wins with that kind of team. Baton pass...LOL do you seriously think you're good because you QP? Your W/L isn't nearly as high as you make it out to be.
    Shy Glizzy, TROP and Molk like this.
  5. BAD

    BAD

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Messages:
    233
    That video is just for teh lolz.

    I would have lower loses if I solely just used this team alone. My losses come from mainly trying out different teams. I can assure you that I win over 90% of the time by using just this team though.



    There are times where I use Zapdos with no boosts though. I absolutely need Heat Wave to take care of pokemon weak to fire. Having 2 electric moves on my main sweeper isn't a really good idea I think.

    Absolutely not. Venomoth has good bulk with just 1 Quiver Dance. Venomoth is capable of taking hits unlike Ninjask. Venomoth makes good use of Black Sludge to help keep it surving throughout the match.

    I have considered Sludge Wave over Fire Blast, but not too sure yet. I might replace it in the future due to the Fairy-type entering the metagame pretty soon.

    I have no problems with those pokemon really. The one and only pokemon that really hurts my team is Virizion. Virizon can turn this team into shred with Grass/Fighting stab as it kills both of my main walls. I have no true counter or check to it.

    Thank you, my team is the best!
  6. Patrick1088

    Patrick1088

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    841
    This is a good team quiverpass is a lot of fun. Just a few points to be aware of...
    1.priority and hard hitters hurt. I used a quivet pass team to nidoking and empoleon which resisted all formz of priority between the two. I would watch out for powerful attackets like honchkrow where an ill timed sucker punch sends honchkrow into a boosting frenzy. I would also note that your quiverpazs recievers are at their most vulnerable once sleep clause activates.
    For example...
    T1 venomoth vs bronzong, you can eithet sleep powder now or be ohko by gyro ball.
    You decide sleep powder is most safe.
    T2 you qd opponent switches in honchkrow or darmanitan planning the switch. Darm will blow nido and zapdos away with flare blitz. Honchkrow can hit hard with brabe bird.
    i gind that it leaves a lot of predictiom which would leave room for human error. Cant really fix it but just to be aware.
    .
  7. Thetwiggy13

    Thetwiggy13

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2012
    Messages:
    87
    What happens if your Venomoth is outsped by, let's say, Roserade (I believe they both have base 90 speed), and it uses Sleep Powder on you and actually hits. What are you going to do? Venomoth's bulk is still sub-par, and Ninjask can use Protect to automatically get a Speed Boost, whereas Venomoth must resort to the ever-so-unlucky Sleep Powder. Faster Pokemon may go ahead and kill Venomoth off, so I believe that Focus Sash is more efficient here because there's always that off-chance you miss and die in the process. I'm not trying to say anything rude, but I do agree with Kitten Milk on this one.

    Nidoking already gets both an electric and fire move, plus Sheer Force and a recoil-free Life Orb boost. Maybe Volt Switch would be better to keep momentum. Cobalion and Zapdos have a great defensive core; and as they both are fast, Volt Switch can not only get the switch, but scout AND get some damage on whatever comes in. Therefore, I'd suggest Volt Switch > Heat Wave on your Zapdos.

    You do need to realize that you put this up for people to help you--to make it better. You should listen to the advice given, test it, and then decide what works best for you. Your Baton Pass team really is nice, and I hope you enjoy using it. Hope I helped, best of luck! :D

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