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Venusaur (BW2 Revamp) (QC 3/3) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Spirit, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. Spirit

    Spirit
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    [​IMG]

    Venusaur

    [Overview]

    <p>One of the coveted relics from the RBY era, Venusaur makes a triumphant return to standard play as the premier Chlorophyll user in BW2. Venusaur's repertoire, which includes Growth and Sleep Powder, have also received substantial amendments. Growth essentially becomes a simultaneous Nasty Plot and Swords Dance boost under the sun and new sleep mechanics render practically any sleeping Pokemon impotent for the entirety of the match. This allows Venusaur to set up with ease in tandem with its respectable bulk and key set of resistances to Fighting-, Electric-, and Water-type attacks. The fun doesn't stop there&mdash;thanks to the new BW2 move tutors, Venusaur can now use Giga Drain with Chlorophyll, allowing it to attack and replenish health simultaneously.</p>

    <p>However, not everything's sunshine and lollipops. Venusaur's ability manifests itself as a double-edged sword. Chlorophyll is an excellent ability under the sunlight, but it is rendered void in any other weather condition. This relegates Venusaur to sun teams and inevitably mandates Ninetales as a vital teammate. Without Ninetales, even Growth becomes mediocre as the +2/+2 attacks boosts transition to a minuscule +1/+1. Don't let this discourage you, as Venusaur's assets are not to be overlooked; it only excels on sun teams, but it will often meet or exceed your expectations as a sweeper, supporter, or even a wall.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Chlorophyll Sweeper
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set capitalizes on Venusaur's most prominent offensive attributes. Under the sunlight, Venusaur's Speed reaches blistering levels, enough to make the prospect of outrunning it impossible. Growth makes sweeping a possibility; in a single turn, Venusaur's Special Attack soars to a menacing 598. When equipped with a Life Orb, the damage rolls will only continue to surmount. Giga Drain is Venusaur's best STAB move, as along with Stealth Rock damage and a boost, Venusaur can OHKO every bulky Water-type in the tier, and it offsets the Life Orb recoil, extending Venusaur's sweep. Hidden Power Fire melts through all the Steel-types that would otherwise wall Venusaur and is also boosted by sun. In the last slot, Sludge Bomb and Sleep Powder both present interesting possibilities. Sludge Bomb, along with the two aforementioned attacks, provides perfect coverage on everything except for Heatran and Chandelure. Sleep Powder misses out on the wonderful coverage, but can potentially incapacitate a Pokemon and allow for more setup opportunities.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs, as peculiar as they are, allow Venusaur to survive an Ice Shard from Adamant Mamoswine even after Stealth Rock, outrun the most relevant Choice Scarf user, Latios, and set up on Blissey/Chansey without Thunder Wave and 2HKO them with +6 Giga Drain. The given IVs minimize confusion damage and damage taken from Foul Play while still retaining the strongest Hidden Power Fire. A possible EV variation is 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Modest nature. This EV spread gives Venusaur a significant power boost at the cost of being outrun by Choice Scarf users in the base 108+ tier, most importantly Terrakion and Latios.</p>

    <p>Given Venusaur's phenomenal boosting abilities and respectable movepool, a mixed attacking set consisting of 88 Atk / 244 SpA / 176 Spe with a Naive / Hasty nature is plausible. The EV spread allows Venusaur to OHKO 252/0 Heatran 100% of the time after Stealth Rock while simultaneously outrunning Choice Scarf Latios and +2 Cloyster. Hidden Power Ice lets Venusaur maul Dragon-types while giving perfect coverage with Giga Drain and Earthquake. If you are running the alternative EV spread, the Defense and Attack IVs should be changed to 30 Defense and 30 Attack to ensure the most optimal sweep. Unfortunately, despite the great utility potential of this set, it's much easier to check. Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress, for example, wall Venusaur, while Scizor has little difficulty switching in and setting up Swords Dance. For this reason, this set often becomes a liability.</p>

    <p>Ninetales is crucial to have on your team if you want to successfully sweep; otherwise, you will have a mediocre attacker that is of little threat to the opposition. Heatran synergizes well with Venusaur, as the two cover each other's weaknesses; Heatran can dispose of Volcarona and absorb Fire-, Psychic-, Ice-, and Flying-type attacks, while Venusaur can defeat Ground-type attackers such as Dugtrio while also taking Water- and Fighting-type attacks. Heatran can also be a nuisance to Venusaur and its team. For that reason, it is imperative to have Dugtrio to not only to get rid of adversarial Heatran, but to take out Tyranitar, a troublesome Pokemon to sun teams in general. Gothitelle is another Pokemon with a trapping ability. Gothitelle can easily dispatch of Hippowdon, Abomasnow, and Politoed, all three of which are vexatious, as they can change the weather condition and make a Venusaur sweep inconceivable. Finally, Wobbuffet can Encore on Pokemon using Toxic, entry hazards, setup moves, or just weak attacks to give Venusaur opportunities to set up.

    name: Sunny Day
    move 1: Sunny Day
    move 2: Giga Drain / SolarBeam
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb
    item: Black Sludge
    nature: Timid
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Relinquishing Venusaur's sweeping capabilities, this set turns Venusaur into a useful support Pokemon for sun teams. Sunny Day acts a disruption to weather inducers that attempt to switch in, and can act as a last-ditch effort to set up sun if Ninetales perishes prematurely. For consistency's sake, Giga Drain is the preferred Grass-type STAB. Despite SolarBeam's detriments, it is still a viable option due to Venusaur's ability to manipulate the weather condition. Hidden Power Fire is boosted by sun and hits all OU Steel-types but Heatran for super effective damage. Due to the supportive characteristics of this set, Sleep Powder is preferred over Sludge Bomb due its ability to incapacitate another foe. However, Sludge Bomb can be used to acquire almost perfect neutral coverage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heat Rock is an interesting option that extends the duration of Sunny Day from five turns to eight, which fits with the supportive theme of this set and alleviates some of the pressure of Sunny Day's five turn timer. In terms of offensive substitutions, Expert Belt or Life Orb are commendable options. As stated previously, this set functions as more of a supportive role, and more often than not, Venusaur's craving for longevity necessitates the use of Black Sludge. Hidden Power Ice can be used to hit Dragonite for super effective damage but lacks any other rationale for its use.</p>

    <p>Even with Sunny Day, this set acts as a supporter, so Ninetales is still a required teammate in order to ensure success. Powerful sweepers such as Volcarona and Sawsbuck make good partners due to benefiting from Sunny Day, which increases the likelihood of a sweep. Dugtrio and Substitute Hydreigon are both excellent partners due to their unparalleled ability to dispose of Heatran and Chandelure, which would otherwise wall Venusaur. Other trapper Pokemon such as Gothitelle and Wobbuffet are just as advantageous, but not needed. Bulky Pokemon such as Celebi and Reuniclus can be problematic due to their ability to either threaten with paralysis or a powerful attack. For this reason, good wall breakers such as Darmanitan, Dragonite, and Victini are useful partners.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Sleep Powder
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire
    item: Black Sludge
    nature: Calm
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 12 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Venusaur's decent 80 / 83 / 100 defensive stats and respectable Grass / Poison typing, giving it resistances to Water-, Grass-, Electric-, and Fighting-type attacks, it is more than capable of employing the well-known SubSeed strategy to act as a pesky quick-staller. 12 Speed EVs allow Venusaur to outrun base 130 Speed Pokemon such as Jolteon without a Choice Scarf in the sun. A specially defensive spread is best in order to exploit Venusaur's resistances. For example, after Stealth Rock, Venusaur has a 75% chance to survive a Choice Specs Hydro Pump from Keldeo in the rain and always survives a +2 Hidden Power Ice from Thundrus-T. Hidden Power Fire deals with Pokemon immune to Leech Seed, such as Celebi and Ferrothorn. Due to the sleep mechanics in BW, Sleep Powder essentially becomes a quick knock-out move, giving Venusaur ample opportunity to set up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>116 Speed EVs can be taken out from Special Defense so that Venusaur can outrun Scarf Rotom-W and not be crippled by its Trick. The current EV spread can be reversed into a physically defensive one with a Bold nature to combat the plethora of Fighting-types, but this job is generally done better by a fellow sun teammate, Cresselia. Moreover, Venusaur's resistances on the special side of the spectrum are much more useful in combating rain teams. Protect can be used over Substitute, but Substitute is generally more useful, as it allows Venusaur to dodge status and stall more effectively. Synthesis becomes a juicy 67% healing move in the sun; as such, it is a an acceptable option, though it is too dependent on the weather condition to work consistently. Last but not least, Giga Drain can be used over Sleep Powder to discourage Water-types from switching in.</p>

    <p>In terms of supporters, Ninetales is still as useful as ever, giving Venusaur's Hidden Power Fire a kick and activating Chlorophyll. Given the stall-like nature of this set, Toxic Spikes support from Forretress, Nidoqueen, and Tentacruel is much appreciated, allowing Venusaur to stall out its opponents faster. Other entry hazard users such as Garchomp and Terrakion can also be helpful by setting up Stealth Rock. Reuniclus is a major issue for this set due to Magic Guard, so Victini or Darmanitan can be helpful teammates, easily switching in and OHKOing with V-Create and Flare Blitz under the sun.</p>


    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of what is already listed, Venusaur doesn't have too many viable options. Roar is a peculiar option on the SubSeed set, used to force out a counter and rack up entry hazard damage. A physical Swords Dance set is possible, but Venusaur lacks the power and movepool to abuse it. Choice sets, in particular Choice Specs, are another option, but Venusaur prefers the liberty of choosing its attacks rather than being restricted to one. Overgrow can be used over Chlorophyll to access egg and event moves such as Power Whip, Leaf Storm, and Weather Ball, but Venusaur is reliant on its boosted speed to sweep, so these options are generally unappealing.<p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Venusaur is a Pokemon that relies on weather in order to accomplish anything substantial. Due to this, the most effective way to stop Venusaur is to change the weather. While counters seem like a good idea, they can easily be disposed of by Venusaur's common teammates, making them obsolete. Altering the weather means that Venusaur loses its blistering Speed and becomes much more susceptible to stronger, more powerful attackers, such as Salamence and Starmie. Also, Venusaur's repertoire takes a major plunge, as Growth becomes a mediocre boosting move, SolarBeam takes two turns to use, and Hidden Power Fire weakens significantly. Having said that, Tornadus is an excellent check, as it can set up Prankster Rain Dance and then force Venusaur out with Hurricane. Though Abomasnow, Hippowdon, Politoad, and Tyranitar cannot switch directly into Venusaur, they are invaluable in their ability to change the weather.</p>

    <p>The preeminent counter is Heatran, although Chandelure can also fill that role. Both Chandelure and Heatran resist all of Venusaur's conventional attacks and can OHKO with their Fire-type STABs. However, both have to be cautious of an Earthquake from a mixed set, as it can OHKO them after Stealth Rock. If Blissey or Chansey carry Thunder Wave, both of them are great counters due to their ability to paralyze Venusaur. Defensive Latias is also a great check, as she is not OHKOed by any of Venusaur's attack and can retaliate with Psyshock. If Stealth Rock in not on the field, Kyurem and Kyurem-B also make good counters due to their monstrous defensive stats and ability to go defensive while always being able to OHKO Venusaur with Ice Beam. In the same vein, defensive Dragonite and Volcarona can come in and set up on Venusaur or OHKO with Fire Punch and Fiery Dance respectively.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, there are ubiquitous priority users able to severely damage Venusaur. Mamoswine and Weavile get special mentions due to having a super effective STAB priority in Ice Shard, although Venusaur must have a bit of prior damage to be KOed. Choice Band Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed and Choice Band Scizor's Bullet Punch can also take out a weakened Venusaur. Garchomp and Hydreigon can tank at least one hit and OHKO back. Specially defensive Jirachi can tank a Hidden Power Fire and paralyze Venusaur. Ditto is one of the few Choice Scarf users that is able to outrun Venusaur in every situation, making it a great check, so long as it has the appropriate Hidden Power. If Venusaur is running a Modest nature, than revenge killing it becomes a lot less cumbersome, as base 108+ Choice Scarf users such as Infernape, Latios, and Terrakion can outrun and KO.</p>
  2. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    You have wasted EVs there since SpA and Spe are not multiples of 4. You essentially have 212 SpA and 204 Spe, which means you can take 2 EVs out of Speed and get an extra point in SpA: 88 Atk / 216 SpA / 204 Spe.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the Astronaut's pet dog >:3
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    I think EQ and a mixed spread can be simply mentioned under AC of Venusaur's Growth set, as Trinitrotoluene intended to do before he stopped working on Venusaur. Icecream, would you want to pick up where Trinitrotoluene left off? He already has the bulk of the skeleton done with 1 approval already. All you have to do is add the changes that others and I suggested after the first QC stamp and write it up of course!
  4. Spirit

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    I guess if it's alright, I'll be more than happy to take over and add the necessary changes to the current Venusaur analysis. You may lock this thread, but please don't delete as I'll reference the set in AC of the growth set as pocket advised. I'll have the new thread up at the earliest today and at the latest tomorrow. Thanks. ^^
  5. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
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    just edit it into your OP
  6. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Okay, done and done. Got the changes from the old thread on the skeleton. Ready for checks!
  7. Trinitrotoluene

    Trinitrotoluene ♪~ i don't want to know what she did; she is not who i am ~♪
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    Heya, since you're picking up this from where I left it, I'd recommend changing the QC count back to 0/3, since yee approved it before I even wrote the skeleton you used as a base. Also, mention Naive with the alternate EV spread and EQ / HP Ice coverage in the AC of Venusaur's Growth Sweeper set.
  8. Spirit

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    I already added the mixed set to AC. Not sure about the QC check though... I removed it just in case, but as it stands, this analysis did receive at least one approval.
  9. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the Astronaut's pet dog >:3
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    Thanks for adding most of the changes Icecream. Here are some more nitpicks:

    Growth
    Not max IVs, since you need Atk and Def IVs of 30 for HP Ice

    SubSeed
    you're missing 4 EVs; it should be 244 SpD EVs.
    ~ explain the EV spread: you copy / pasted the physically-defensive spread, which tanks totally different moves (not to mention the EV spread is different from what I suggested). Your EV explanation should have the following content included:
    ~ AC mention physically defensive spread

    Checks and Counters:
    Both Kyurem and Kyurem-Black possess identical special defensiveness of 125 HP / 90 SpD, so they are both equally capable in running a specially defensive set :|
    Specify these scarfers, since some readers new to Pokemon may not know (primarily Scarf Terrakion, Lati@s)
    ^ You forgot to add this
    This should probably be mentioned on the very beginning with heavier emphasis than what you have now. You also entirely missed the part in bold.
  10. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Sorry about that Pocket. I added all the changes you asked, I also added Ditto and defensive Dragonite in Checks/Counters. Even with a +2 LO boosted sludge bomb after Stealth Rock, defensive Dragonite was always something that screwed over Venusaur. I expanded on the weather wars part, I was planing on giving that its own paragraph in the write up, but I guess there's nothing wrong with emphasizing it now.
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the Astronaut's pet dog >:3
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    Like I said, the alternative physical defensive EV spread you quoted for SubSeed is wrong b/c max HP / 244 Def is more optimal. Go carefully read my response to TNT in the old thread again.

    Don't include Scarf Keldeo under the list of scarfers that can check Modest Venusaur, since Keldeo has no powerful STAB moves to threaten Venusaur

    Tone down on Ditto's revenge-killing capabilities. Its certainly one of the few scarfers that are faster than Timid Venusaur, but there are more economical ways of checking Venusaur (ie strong priority or simply tanking its hits) than using a conditional pokemon like Ditto
  12. Spirit

    Spirit
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    I actually did add the 252 / 244 spread for the physical alternative, but I forgot to remove that quote. Removed Keldeo from CC and toned down ditto. If there's anything else you want me to touch up on, now's the time. =p
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the Astronaut's pet dog >:3
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    nope ;o

    [qc](1/3)[/qc]
  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    Everything looks fine to me ATM!

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED 2/3
  15. Spirit

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    er mah gawd... this took 5evur to finish. I put a lot of effort into this, I hope it turned out well. Skeleton is in hide tags for reference. Ready for the final check!

    A few things, I changed the sweeper set to Chlorophyll Sweeper, it just sounds better and still stays competitive. I've also removed worry Seed from OO and added roar to OO, I tried it out and it's pretty cool on sun stall. Worry Seed is just so bad that even in OO it doesn't fit.
  16. Cygnis

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    Um you spelled nine tales wrong at there is a lot of those in this analysis just to let you know
  17. Spirit

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    Oh wow.. that's embarrassing. Thanks for pointing it out.
  18. shrang

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    Sorry this took so long, but it kind of slipped my mind.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  19. Spirit

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    Thank you so much. ^^ Time for GP Checks!
  20. tehy

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    Hey, nice job. I had this crazy idea of replacing Lollipops (In the overview's second paragraph) with Lilligants, although that's totally flavor and arguably dumb.

    Also, you don't need to go "In terms of blah", just go out with it. Those are just filler words really.

    Add blue delete red comments below.
    Show Hide


    [Overview]

    <p>One of the coveted relics from the RBY era, Venusaur makes a triumphant return to standard play as the premier Chlorophyll user in BW2. Venusaur's repertoire, which includes Growth and Sleep Powder, have also received substantial amendments. Growth essentially becomes a simultaneous Nasty Plot and Swords Dance boost under the sun. Also, theand new sleep mechanics render practically any sleeping Pokemon impotent for the entirety of the match, allowing Venusaur to set up with ease in tandem with its respectable bulk, and key set of resistances to Fighting-, Electric-, and Water-type attacks. The fun doesn't stop there, thanks to the new BW2 move tutors, Venusaur can now use Giga Drain with Chlorophyll, allowing it to attack and replenish health concurrentsimultaneously.</p>

    <p>However, not everything's sunshine and lollipops,. Venusaur's ability manifests itself as a double-edged sword. Chlorophyll is an excellent ability under the sunlight, thoughbut it is rendered void in any other weather condition. This relegates Venusaur to Drought teams and inevitably mandates Ninetales as a vital teammate. Without Ninetales, even Growth becomes mediocre, as the +2/+2 attacks boosts transition to a miniscule +1/+1. Don't let this discourage you, as Venusaur's assets are not to be overlooked; it only excels on sun teams, but it will often meet your expectations as either a sweeper, supporter, and even a wall.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Chlorophyll Sweeper
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Giga Drain
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb
    nature: Timid
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set capitalizes on Venusaur's most prominent offensive attributes. Under the sunlight, Venusaur's speed reaches blistering levels, enough to make the prospect of outrunning it impossible, while locking in an inevitable sweep. Growth makes sweeping a possibility; in a single move, Venusaur's special attack soars to a menacing 598. When equipped with a Life Orb, the damage roll will only continue to surmount. Giga Drain is Venusaur's best STAB move, a. After a boost along with Stealth Rock damage, Venusaur can not only OHKO every bulky water in the tier, butand it negateoffsets the Life Orb recoil insur, extending a longer livability rateVenusaur's sweep. Hidden Power Fire wranglemelts through all the Steel-types that would otherwise wall Venusaur and is also augmenboosted in power thanks toby Drought. In the last slot, Sludge Bomb and Sleep Powder both present interesting possibilities. Sludge bomb, along with the two aforementioned attacks, acquire perfect coverage on everything except for Heatran and Chandelure. Sleep Powder on the hand, misses out on the wonderful coverage, but can potentially incapacitate a Pokemon and allow for more setup opportunities.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs, as peculiar as they are, have valid implications. Even after Stealth Rock,low Venusaur canto survive an Ice Shard From Adamant Mamoswine even after Stealth Rock, outrun the most relevant scarf user, Latios, and if they lack Thunder Wave, Venusaur can set up on Blissey/Chansey without Thunder Wave and 2HKO them +6 Giga Drain. The given IVs minimize confusion damage and damage taken from Foul Play. A possible EV variation is 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Modest nature. This EV spread gives Venusaur a significant power boost at the cost of being outraun buty Scarf users in the base 108+ tier, such as Terrakion and InfernapeLatios.</p>

    <p>Given Venusaur's phenomenal boosting move and respectable movepool, a mixed attacking set consisting of 88 Atk / 244 SpA / 176 Spe with a Naive / Hasty nature is plausible. The EV spread allows Venusaur to OHKO 252/0 Heatran 100% of the time after Stealth Rock while simultaneously outrunning Scarf Latios and +2 Cloyster. Hidden Power Ice lets Venusaur maul Dragon-types while giving perfect coverage with Giga Drain and Earthquake. If you are running the alternative EV spread, the defense and attack IVs should be changed to 30 Def and 30 Atk to iensure the most optimal sweeping potential. Unfortunately, despite the great utility potential of this set, it's much easier to check. Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress, for example, wall Venusaur, while Scizor has little difficulty switching in and setting up Swords Dance. For this reason, this set often becomes a liability.</p>

    <p>Ninetales is crucial to have on your team if you want to successfully sweep, otherwise, you will have a mediocre attacker that is of little threat to the opposition. Heatran synergizes well with Venusaur. Heatran and Venusaur, as the two cover each other's weaknesses properly; Heatran can dispose of Volcarona and absorb Fire-, Psychic-, Ice-, and Flying-type attacks, and Venusaur can defeat Ground-type attackers such as Dugtrio, while also taking Water- and Fighting-type attacks. Heatran can also be a nuisance to Venusaur and its team. For that reason, it is imperative to have Dugtrio to not only to get rid of adversarial Heatran, but to take out Tyranitar, who is an ardu troublesome Pokemon to sun teams in general. Gothitelle is another Pokemon with a trapping-espqe ability. Gothitelle can easily dispatch of Hippowdon, Abomasnow, and Politoed; all three of which are vexatious, as they can change the weather condition and make a Venusaur sweep inconceivable. Finally, Wobbuffet's divergence to abusing abt can using Shadow Tag can become propitious. By using Encore on a boosting sweeper, a wallPokemon using tToxic, and Encore aentry hazards, setup moves, or just weak attack;s, to give Venusaur can easily switch in and find ample opportunityies to set up.</p>

    name: Sunny Day
    move 1: Sunny Day
    move 2: Giga Drain / SolarBeam
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb
    item: Black Sludge
    nature: Timid
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Relinquishing Venusaur's sweeping capabilities, this set turns Venusaur into one of the most adversariaa useful superlatives toport Pokemon for Drought teams. Sunny dDay acts a disruption to inimical weather inducers that attempt to switch in, not only that, but itand can act as a last-ditched effort to set up sun whenif Ninetales perishes prematurely. For consistency's sake, Giga Drain is the preferred Grass-type stab. Despite SolarBeam's detriments, it is still a viable option due to Venusaur's ability to manipulate its ownthe weather condition. Hidden Power Fire is boosted by sun and hits every Sall OU steel-type nos but named Empoleon and Heatran for super-effective damage. Due to the supportive characteristics of this set, Sleep Powder is preferred over Sludge Bomb due its ability to incapacitate another foe. However, Sludge Bomb can be used to acquire almost perfect neutral coverage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Heat rRock is an interesting option that extends thate duration of Sunny Day from 5-8 turns, which fits with the supportive theme of this set, and alleviates some of the pressure ensued byof Sunny Day's 5 turn timer restriction. In terms of offensive substitutions, Expert Belt or Life Orb are commendable options. As stated previously, this set functions as more of a supportive role, and more often than not, Venusaur's craving for longevity necessitates the use of Black Sludge so that it does not suff. Hidden Power from effeteness. Hidden Power Ice can be used to hit DIce can be used to hit dragonite, Salamence, and Garchomps for super-effective damage but lacks any other rationale for its use.</p>

    <p>Even with access to Sunny Day, this set's prerogative is to acts as a supporter, as such,o Ninetales is still a confinrequired teammate in order to iensure success. Powerful Ssweepers such as Volcarona and Sawsbuck, make good partners due to being aided by Sunny Day, and further guaranteeingwhich increases the prospectlikelihood of theira sweep. In the same vein, Dugtrio and Substitute Hydreigon are both become excellent partners due to their unparalleled ability to dispose of Heatran and Chandelure, who would otherwise wall Venusaurolcarona. Other trapper Pokemons such as Gothitelle and Wobbuffet, are just as advantageous, but not needed. Bulky Pokemon such as Celebi and Reuniclus can be problematic due to their ability to either threaten with paralysis or a powerful attack, respectfully. For this reason, cogentgood wall-breakers such as Darmanitan, Dragonite, and Victini are necessaryuseful partners.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Leech Seed
    move 2: Substitute
    move 3: Sleep Powder
    move 4: Hidden Power Fire
    item: Black Sludge
    nature: Calm
    ability: Chlorophyll
    evs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 12 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Venusaur's suitable defcense stats consisting of 80/ 83/ 100 defense stats and a respectable Grass / Poison typing, giving it resistances to Water-, Grass-, Electric-, and Fighting-type attacks, Venusaur is more than capable of employing the infamous Sub-Seed strategy to act as a pesky quick-staller. 12 speed EVs allow Venusaur to outrun base 130 speed Pokemon such as Jolteon without a Scarf in the sun. A specially defensive spread is best in order to exploit Venusaur's key set of resistances. For example, after Stealth Rock, Venusaur has a 75% chance to survive a Choice Specs Hydro Pump from Keldeo in the rain, after, moreover, it willnd also be able toalways survives a +2 Hidden Power Ice from Thundeurus-T. Hidden Power Fire deals with Pokemon immune to Leech Seed, such as Celebi and Ferrothorn. Due to the new sleep mechanics in BW, Sleep Powder essentially becomes a quick knock-out move, giving Venusaur ample opportunity to set up.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>116 Speed EVs can be taken out from special defense so that Venusaur can outrun Scarf Rotom-wW and not be bamboozled by its tTrick. In terms of other alternate EV spreads, tThe current EV spread can be reversed into a physically defensive one with a Bold nature. This spread can be useful in to combating the plethora of Fighting-types, but this job is generally done more adequatelybetter by a fellow sun teammate, Cresselia. Moreover, Venusaur's resistances on the special side of the spectrum are much more useful in combating rain teams. As for alternate moves, Protect can be used over Substitute, however, sbut Substitute is generally more fittinguseful, as it allows Venusaur to dodge status and stall infinitely. Synthesis becomes a juicy 67% healing move in the sun, as such, it is a an acceptable option, though it is too dependent on the weather condition to work consistently. Last but not least, Giga Drain can be used over Sleep Powder to discourage Water-types from switching in.</p>

    <p>In terms of supporters, Ninetales is still as useful as ever by, giving Venusaur's Hidden Power Fire a kick and activating Chlorophyll. Given the stall-like nature of this set, Toxic Spikes Ssupport from Forretress, Nidoqueen, and Tentacruel is much obliged in helpappreciated, allowing Venusaur to stall outlive its opponents faster. Other hazard users such as Garchomp and Terrakion can also be congruoushelpful by setting up Stealth Rock. Reuniclus is a major issue for this set due to Magic Guard, as sucho Victini can be a helpful teammate, usually switching in and OHKOing with V-Create under the sun.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Outside of what is already listed, Venusaur doesn't have too many Vviable options. Roar is a peculiar option on the Sub-Seed set, with it, Venusaur can to force out a counter and rack up hazard damage. A physical Swords Dance set is possible, but Venusaur lacks the power and movepool to abuse it. Choice sets, in particularly Choice Specs, are also another option, but Venusaur prefers the liberationty of choosing its attacks rather than being restricted to one. Overgrow can be used over Chlorophyll to access egg and event moves such as Power Whip, Leaf Storm, and an event move, Weather Ball, but Venusaur is reliant on its ability to sweep, so these options are generally unavaippealing.<p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Venusaur is a Pokemon that relies on weather in order to accomplish anything substantial. Due to this reliance, the most effective way to stop Venusaur is to change the weather. While counters seem like a good idea, they can easily be disposed of withby Venusaur's common teammates, making them obsolete. By aAltering the weather, Venusaur suffers in a multitude of ways. Firs means that off, Venusaur loses its blistering speed and becomes much more susceptible to stronger, more powerful attackers, such as Salamence and Starmie. Also, Venusaur's repertoire takes a major plunge., as Growth becomes a mediocre boosting move, SolarBeam takes two turns to use, and Hidden Power Fire weakens significantly. Having said that, this makes Tornadus is an excellent counterheck, as it can Taunt Venusaur and set up Prankster Rain Dance, fromand then, it can threaten force Venusaur out with Hurricane. Though Abomasnow, Hippowdon, Politoad, and Tyranitar cannot switch directly into Venusaur, they are invaluable in their ability to change the weather.</p>

    <p>The two preeminent customary counters areis Heatran, although Chandelure cand Heatran also fill that role. Both Chandelure and Heatran resist all of Venusaur's conventional attacks and can OHKO with their Fire-type Stabs. However, both have to be cautious of an Earthquake from the mixed set, as it can OHKO both of them after Stealth Rock. If Blissey or Chansey carry Thunder Wave, both of them are great counters due to their consistency in paralyzing Venusaur. Defensive Latias is also a great counter, as she is not OHKO'd by any of Venusaur's attacks, and can retaliate with Psyshock. If Stealth Rock in not on the field, Kyurem and Kyurem-B also make good counters due to their monstrous defense stats and ability to go defensive, while always being able to OHKO Venusaur with Ice Beam. In the same Vvein, defensive Dragonite and Volcarona can come in and set up on Venusaur or OHKO with Fire BlastPunch and Fire Punchery Dance, respectfulively.</p>

    <p>If all else fails, there are ubiquitous amounts of priority users able to severely damage Venusaur. Cloyster, Mamoswine, and Weavile get a special mentions due to having a super-effective STAB priority in Ice Shard. A, although, all three of themy will not be able to OHKO Venusaur from the get-go. Dragonite's Choice Band ExtremeSpeed and Scizor's Choice Band Bullet Punch also have the capability ofn also takinge out a weakened Venusaur. In terms of checks, Garchomp and Hydreigon can tank at least one hit and OHKO back. Specially defensive Jirachi can tank a Hidden Power Fire and paralyze Venusaur. Ditto is one of the few Scarf users that is able to outrun Venusaur in every situation, making it a great check, so long as it has the appropriate Hidden Power IV. If Venusaur is running a Modest nature, than revenge killing it becomes a lot less cumbersome, as base 108+ Scarf users such as Infernape, Latios, and Terrakion can outrun and KO.</p>



    Comments:
    Coveted relic? Kind of a really weird way to say it.
    Technically you could argue Giga Drain and healing ARE concurrent because healing happens right after the damage is done but considering it also comes before any other effect (Even LO, as I recall) simultaneous makes much more sense.
    WIthout Chloro Venu would blow anyhow, it didn't have such great abilities besides that.
    Locking in an inevitable sweep? Venusaur is still walled by plenty, you know.
    Technically it doesn't hit Dialga for Se damage, or Aggron and its ilk. Heatproof Zong is arguable too, so I just changed that.
    In the same vein? You mean the vein of supporting Volca and Sawsbuck and the like, right? Not letting Venu sweep itself, as if it could anyhow.
    Are you saying Celebi (Sun HP fire/Psychic) can't threaten with a powerful attack? Not on Reuiniclus' level but still quite strong.
    ...Reuniclus is not a wall, and you can HP fire Celebi and wear it down well. Why would you need wallbreakers for either of these pokemon, especially considering as how the mentioned ones will force it out in a heartbeat?
  21. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Thanks for the check, tehy! Implemented. I thought the "filler words" would be needed for clarification. I should just be as direct as I can. =p

    The lilligents thing is cute, but I don't think anyone will get that.

    I meant in supporting Venusaur, not Volcarona. This is the only thing I didn't change.
  22. tehy

    tehy

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    Sure, but the problem is "In the same vein" basically means that you're talking about the same thing that you were just talking about. And you were just talking about supporting Volcarona and Sawsbuck. But the actual sentence states that you're helping Venusaur sweep.

    It should probably still be there, but you need to change it so it's not saying in the same vein, really. Alternately, you could go with 'Dugtrio supports Volca AND helps Venusaur sweep' which is true too
  23. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Yeah, you have a point. In the same vein was removed for the sake of clarity.
  24. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
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    I don't have access to my laptop for a full check, but I just scanned and this sentence jumped out...

    The given IVs minimize confusion damage and damage taken from Foul Play.

    It should say something like...

    The given IVs minimize confusion and Foul Play damage while still retaining the strongest Hidden Power Fire.

    Otherwise people will ask what's going on with the evs with hidden power and such on these sets, it's happened before.
  25. Spirit

    Spirit
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    Yeah, good call. Thanks for that.

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