Venusaur (Gen 4, SubSeeder)*

I didn't know why Venusaur never had a dedicated SubSeeder set, so I decided to write one up. SubSeeder Venusaur is one of my VIPs on my paralysis-oriented team, and it works like a charm. It's very bulky and has the perfect typing to use Leech Seed effectively (hitting Grass-types with STAB Sludge Bomb).



http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/venusaur


[SET]
name: SubSeeder
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Sleep Powder / Body Slam
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has all of the qualities to abuse the SubSeed combination effectively. With its great overall defenses and helpful supporting movepool, it's quite difficult to stop Venusaur once it sets up. The main advantage Venusaur has over other SubSeeders, such as Tangrowth and Sceptile, is the fact that it possesses the Poison typing, which allows it to destroy nearly any Grass-type that tries to absorb Leech Seed with a STAB super effective Sludge Bomb.</p>

<p>Sleep Powder and Body Slam both have their merits. Sleep Powder incapacitates the opposing Pokemon for a few turns, giving Venusaur the perfect chance to set up its SubSeeding chain. On the other hand, Body Slam has a chance of paralyzing the target and helps Venusaur move first. Venusaur can then effectively stall the opponent by Leech Seeding it and repeatedly using Substitute.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread focuses on maximizing Venusaur's defensive capabilities on both sides of the spectrum. With 128 Defense EVs, Venusaur's Substitute will almost never be broken by 100 Attack Careful Registeel's Iron Head, making Registeel perfect set-up bait. A Calm nature and 128 Special Defense EVs allow Venusaur to never be 5HKOed by 0 Special Attack Bold Milotic's Ice Beam and never be 2HKOed by 220 Special Attack Life Orb Modest Milotic's Ice Beam. The Milotic calculations are assuming that you have Leech Seeded them.</p>

<p>Paralysis support is probably what Venusaur would benefit from the most support-wise, especially if you are using Sleep Powder instead of Body Slam, as Venusaur no longer has to worry about spreading paralysis itself. Before you start spreading paralysis, however, allow Venusaur to put one of the opponent's Pokemon to sleep, since if you paralyze almost every Pokemon on your opponent's team, Venusaur will have trouble using Sleep Powder successfully. If you are able to spread paralysis throughout the opponent's team, Venusaur will be more effective when Leech Seed stalling. Slowbro is an excellent user of Thunder Wave and also has fantastic type synergy with Venusaur. Substitute-using threats that resist Sludge Bomb, such as Mismagius and Toxicroak, can easily cause problems as well. It's best to use Pokemon that can deal with the aforementioned threats, such as Spiritomb and Uxie, respectively, or you may have a hard time using Venusaur effectively. Moltres, although not resistant to Sludge Bomb, can easily stall out Venusaur's Sludge Bomb by alternating between Substitute and Roost, so it needs to be dealt with too. RestTalk Milotic, who also has great synergy with Venusaur, is a decent option for combating SubRoost Moltres, eliminating it with Surf.</p>
 
A Calm nature and 128 Special Defense EVs allow Venusaur to never be 5HKOed by Milotic's Ice Beam and never 2HKOed by 220 SpA Life Orb Modest Milotic's Ice Beam. The Milotic calculations are assuming that you have Leech Seeded them.
I double checked these calcs, and I think you must have had some boosts somewhere that you didn't notice. This is what I got from the Smogon damage calculator.

Defensive Milotic's Ice Beam vs. this Venasaur: 30.8% - 36.3%

That's a comfortable 4HKO, and a possible 3HKO if it switches into Stealth Rock.

220 SpA Life Orb Modest Milotic Ice Beam vs. this Venasaur: 52.7% - 62.6%

Pretty likely 2HKO.

I don't know if this changes the way you want to EV him, but he definitely can't wall offensive Milotic's Ice Beam.
 
Nope, those were the right calcs. From the analysis:

A Calm nature and 128 Special Defense EVs allow Venusaur to never be 5HKOed by Milotic's Ice Beam and never 2HKOed by 220 SpA Life Orb Modest Milotic's Ice Beam. The Milotic calculations are assuming that you have Leech Seeded them.
If Milotic has been Leech Seeded, the #HKO changes, because Venusaur is recovering 16% of its health every turn (Leech Seed + Leftovers). The first calculation would be a 5HKO and the second one would be a 2HKO.
 

Eo Ut Mortus

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[SET]
name: SubSeeder
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Sleep Powder / Body Slam
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has all of the qualities to abuse the SubSeed combination effectively. With its great overall defenses and helpful supporting[supportive would mean that the movepool supports Venusaur, but I believe you mean that the movepool contains many supporting moves] movepool, it's quite difficult to stop Venusaur once it sets up. The main advantage Venusaur has over most other SubSeeders, such as Tangrowth and Sceptile, is that fact that it possesses[it doesn't share it with anything mentioned] Poison typing. That way, it can destroy nearly any Grass-type that tries to absorb Leech Seed with a super effective Sludge Bomb.</p>

<p>Sleep Powder and Body Slam both have their merits. Sleep Powder incapacitates the opposing Pokemon for a few turns, giving Venusaur the perfect chance to set up Substitute or Leech Seed. On the other hand, Body Slam has a chance of paralyzing the target[the paralysis, not its chance, helps Venusaur move first] and helping Venusaur move first. Venusaur can then effectively stall the opponent by Leech Seeding it and[this part was a bit ambiguous] repeatedly using Substitute.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread focuses on maximizing Venusaur's defensive capabilities on both sides of the spectrum. With 128 Defense EVs, Venusaur's Substitute will almost never be broken by 100 Attack Careful Registeel's Iron Head, making Registeel perfect set-up bait. A Calm nature and 128 Special Defense EVs allow Venusaur to never be 5HKOed by Milotic's Ice Beam and never be 2HKOed by 220 Special Attack Life Orb Modest Milotic's Ice Beam. The Milotic calculations are assuming that you have Leech Seeded them.</p>

<p>Paralysis support is probably what Venusaur would benefit from the most support-wise, especially if you are using Body Slam instead of Sleep Powder[do you mean the other way around?]. If you are able to spread paralysis throughout the opponent's team, Venusaur will be more effective when Leech Seed stalling. Slowbro is an excellent user of Thunder Wave and also has fantastic type synergy with Venusaur. Substitute-using threats that resist Sludge Bomb, such as Mismagius and Toxicroak, can easily cause problems as well. It's best to use Pokemon that can deal with the aforementioned threats, such as Spiritomb, or you may have a hard time using Venusaur effectively. Moltres, although not resistant to Sludge Bomb, can easily stall out Venusaur's Sludge Bomb by alternating between Substitute and Roost, so it needs to be dealt with too. RestTalk Milotic, who also has great synergy with Venusaur, is a decent option for combating SubRoost Moltres, eliminating it with Surf.</p>
I just had a few nitpicks; nice job.
 

Flora

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Just one nitpick.

Additional Comments said:
<p>The EV spread focuses on maximizing Venusaur's defensive capabilities on both sides of the spectrum. With 128 Defense EVs, Venusaur's Substitute will almost never be broken by 100 Attack Careful Registeel's Iron Head, making Registeel perfect set-up bait. A Calm nature and 128 Special Defense EVs allow Venusaur to never be 5HKOed by Milotic's Ice Beam and never be 2HKOed by 220 Special Attack Life Orb Modest Milotic's Ice Beam. The Milotic calculations are assuming that you have Leech Seeded them.</p>
I think you should make this Milotic more descriptive just like how you made the Modest one. I guess we would assume that it's a Bold standard tank one, so maybe put "the standard Milotic's Ice Beam" here?
 
deletions changes/additions content comments
this is copypasteable except you have to get rid of the stuff in brackets
basically completely style checks (combining awkward sentences/phrases)

only 156 Def EVs are needed to stop Registeel from breaking the Substitute but I would personally defer to people who have used this set in determining whether SpD or Def should be emphasized

[SET]
name: SubSeeder
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Sludge Bomb
move 4: Sleep Powder / Body Slam
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Venusaur has all of the qualities to abuse the SubSeed combination effectively. With its great overall defenses and helpful supporting movepool, it's quite difficult to stop Venusaur once it sets up. The main advantage Venusaur has over other SubSeeders such as Tangrowth and Sceptile is the fact that it possesses the Poison typing, which allows it to destroy nearly any Grass-type that tries to absorb Leech Seed with a STAB [since the other Grass-types also can use Sludge Bomb] super effective Sludge Bomb.</p>

<p>Sleep Powder and Body Slam both have their merits. Sleep Powder incapacitates the opposing Pokemon for a few turns, giving Venusaur the perfect chance to set up its SubSeeding chain. On the other hand, Body Slam has a chance of paralyzing the target and helps Venusaur move first. Venusaur can then effectively stall the opponent by Leech Seeding it and repeatedly using Substitute.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread focuses on maximizing Venusaur's defensive capabilities on both sides of the spectrum. With 128 Defense EVs, Venusaur's Substitute will almost never be broken by 100 Attack Careful Registeel's Iron Head, making Registeel perfect set-up bait. A Calm nature and 128 Special Defense EVs allow Venusaur to never be 5HKOed by 0 Special Attack Bold Milotic's Ice Beam and never be 2HKOed by 220 Special Attack Life Orb Modest Milotic's Ice Beam (assuming you have Leech Seeded it).</p>

<p>Paralysis support is probably what Venusaur would benefit from the most support-wise, especially if you are using Sleep Powder instead of Body Slam, as Venusaur no longer has to worry about spreading paralysis itself. [the obvious question here is “if it’s getting paralysis support why are you using Sleep Powder” and I think there should be a clarification sentence if only because it’s logically confusing] If you are able to spread paralysis throughout the opponent's team, Venusaur will be more effective when Leech Seed stalling. Slowbro is an excellent user of Thunder Wave and also has fantastic type synergy with Venusaur. Substitute-using threats that resist Sludge Bomb, such as Mismagius and Toxicroak, can easily cause problems as well. It's best to use Pokemon that can deal with the aforementioned threats, such as Spiritomb and Uxie, or you may have a hard time using Venusaur effectively. Moltres, although not resistant to Sludge Bomb, can easily stall out Venusaur's Sludge Bomb by alternating between Substitute and Roost, so it needs to be dealt with too. RestTalk Milotic, who also has great synergy with Venusaur, is a decent option for combating SubRoost Moltres, eliminating it with Surf.</p>
 

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