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Venusaur (Uber Analysis)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by drcossack, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Venusaur Dex

    [​IMG]

    [Overview]

    <p>In Generation IV, Venusaur's lack of speed prevented it from being a usable pokemon in the Uber environment. In Generation V, Venusaur received a new ability from the Dream World in the form of Chlorophyll. With permanent Sun existing in the form of Groudon, Venusaur's new speed in the Sun, as well as Growth's +2/+2 boost to both attack stats, allows it to run a physical, special, or mixed set in Ubers. Venusaur's poison typing also allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes, making life easier for the rest of your team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Seed Bomb
    move 3: Sleep Powder
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
    nature: Adamant
    Ability: Chlorophyll

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs on this set max Venusaur's attack, grant some longevity, and 250 speed allows you to outspeed Scarf Garchomp if the sun is up. Venusaur, as a physical sweeper, is an absolute monster. After a Swords Dance, the only things that Venusaur cannot OHKO with Seed Bomb and Earthquake are Bulkier Ubers such as Wobbuffet, Giratina, and Lugia, and Flying types such as Ho-oh, Rayquaza, Salamence, and Shaymin-S. </p>

    <p>Even though flying types can wall this set more effectively than others, they too need to be careful. Sleep Powder can incapacitate them, forcing them to either switch or hope for an early end to sleep. Rayquaza can force Venusaur out immediately due to Air Lock. Seed Bomb gives this Venusaur set STAB and the ability to kill Kyogre, Groudon, and Palkia with ease. After a Swords Dance, both Kyogre and Groudon are OHKOd regardless of hazard damage, and a 4/0 Timid Palkia takes 85% minimum from a +2 Seed Bomb.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>On the physical set, running Growth over Swords Dance has its merit. While Swords Dance screams "physical attacker", Growth's buff allows you to bluff a mixed or special set.</p>

    <p>One of Venusaur's major problems is only being limited to 4 moves. Sleeping one of Venusaur's counters makes it easier for Venusaur to sweep; more importantly, if you need to switch Venusaur out, you can gain free turns with a setup sweeper, such as Calm Mind Mewtwo. As weather is a huge factor in the success of this set, eliminating Kyogre is paramount to Venusaur's ability to sweep. Even so, Kyogre has a difficult time switching in due to Seed Bomb. Baiting a Venusaur to use Earthquake allows Kyogre to effectively counter Venusaur, however; a Timid Kyogre takes 56-66% from a +2 Earthquake. Because this Venusaur set fears Ho-oh and Rayquaza, Return or Double-Edge can be used as a way to deal with both.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Attacker
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Grass Knot
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: HP Ground
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 40 HP/252 SpA/216 Spe
    nature: Modest
    Ability: Chlorophyll

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set allows Venusaur to use its Special Attack to Sweep. Unfortunately, this set also has problems with bulkier Pokemon. Lugia is 2HKO'd by Sludge Bomb after a Growth, which can prevent it from switching in; however, it can come in after a kill and phaze. Similarly, a Calm Giratina only takes 36% max from the same Sludge Bomb.</p>

    <p>Grass Knot serves to OHKO the things that do not resist it, or are neutral to it - Kyogre, Groudon, and Palkia are OHKO'd after a Growth. Unfortunately, Pokemon like Manaphy can make Grass Knot useless, so Leaf Storm is an option if you feel the need to deal with Manaphy quickly.</p>

    <p>HP Ground finishes the set, allowing you to deal with Steel-types. HP Fire is an option as well, but that allows Heatran to wall you. Scizor and Forretress are hit hard by HP Ground, allowing you to 2HKO both. Heatran and Dialga are both OHKOd by HP Ground, though the rare Shuca Berry can save Dialga from an OHKO - Shuca Dialga takes 53%-62% from it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Because of Venusaur's tendency to require putting its counters to sleep, Sleep Powder can be used on this set, but that sacrifices Venusaur's ability to do damage. Sleep Powder, can, however, be used against Blissey, who otherwise completely walls this set. Blissey will switch out, however, but if you feel you need a free turn to set up, it has its merit. It does, however, have the unfortunate drawback of removing Venusaur's coverage.</p>

    <p>At 500 Speed in the Sun, there is little to stop a Venusaur. Growth received a boost in the Sun to grant the user +2 to both Attack stats. Grass Knot, Sludge Bomb, and HP Ground give Venusaur excellent coverage, giving the original grass starter a different way of producing OHKOs..</p>

    <p>Groudon's ability is a requirement, due to Venusaur's overall lack of Speed. If the lack of Sleep Powder is a problem, Wobbuffet's Encore and Darkrai's Sleep moves can give you a free turn to use Growth. While this set is capable of doing things that a Physical Venusaur cannot, weather control is still a major factor in its success. Kyogre has some difficulty switching in against this set; it takes 76.5%-90% from a +2 Sludge Bomb, though it can switch in freely against HP Ground, taking 46% max.</p>

    [SET]
    Name: Mixed Attacker
    Move 1: Growth
    Move 2: Sludge Bomb
    Move 3: Earthquake
    Move 4: Seed Bomb
    Item: Life Orb
    EVs: 44 HP/160 Atk/88 SpA/216 Spe
    Nature: Lonely
    Ability: Chlorophyll

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This Venusaur set gets the best of both worlds, gaining the ability to handle things that the Physical and Special sets cannot. With entry hazard damage factored in, few things can safely switch in on this Venusaur. After using Growth in the Sun, the EV's on this Venusaur allow it to hit at least 500 in three stats: Speed, Attack, and Special Attack. With both offensive stats at +2, Venusaur is able to easily OHKO or 2HKO everything that comes in on it.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>In addition to its offensive capabilities, Venusaur's bulk allows it to run a SubSeed set, and it can opt for more reliable residual damage in the form of Toxic. However, Nattorei, the new Grass/Steel type, has immunity to both Leech Seed and Toxic, forcing Venusaur to deal with it by Sleeping it.</p>

    <p>A variety of Hidden Powers can be used on Venusaur: Rock deals with Ho-oh. Ice can be used for Zekrom, Garchomp, and Rayquaza. Finally, Fire/Ground can be used to deal with Steel types.</p>

    <p>To keep Venusaur on the field longer, Giga Drain, with its HP restoration, is an option. More importantly, Giga Drain's damage does not depend on weight like Grass Knot does, nor does it reduce Venusaur's Special Attack like Leaf Storm.

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Regardless of the set Venusaur runs, most flying types easily serve as excellent counters to it. Venusaur's Grass STAB is resisted by a number of pokemon commonly seen in Ubers: Giratina/Giratina-O, Ho-oh, Rayquaza, Shaymin-S, Lugia. Its Poison STAB is unresisted by most of its counters, making them think twice about switching in. Despite the difficulty it has in switching into a Sludge Bomb, Rayquaza has the added benefit of the weather-cancelling Air Lock, which allows it to eliminate Venusaur's Speed and kill it with ease. Rayquaza also has problems switching in if Venusaur carries Sleep Powder. In addition to weather cancelling, weather changes also wreck Venusaur. While Kyogre has difficulty switching in on Venusaur's STABs, it can come in on ground attacks, change the weather, and force Venusaur to switch out. The last of Venusaur's major counters are Skarmory and Nattorei. Skarmory's immunity to Ground and Poison, combined with a resistance to Grass STAB, require Venusaur to use HP Fire to kill it. Nattorei, like Skarmory, shares a poison immunity. Unlike Skarmory, however, Nattorei is not immune to Ground; even so, Nattorei's defenses, combined with neutral damage to Ground, require HP Fire for any serious damage.</p>
  2. Darkamber8828

    Darkamber8828

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    Why not just use EQ in the last slot? +2 EQ helps get around Blissey, and saving IVs is always nice.

    Also, why would you ever use Seed Bomb when you could use Power Whip? It's Fire Blast-level accuracy, not Stone Edge-level accuracy, and STAB 120 base power is amazing.

    Also, slash Return in the third slot to hit Flying-types and Grass-types, who are somewhat common (Shaymin, Rayquaza)
  3. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

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    Growth boosts both attacking stats +2, so a mixed set with Growth/Grass Knot/Sludge Bomb/EQ can work.
  4. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    Mention that this is with SR up only, and whoever's using Ho-oh will be trying very hard to keep Stealth Rock off the field. In return (If SR is not up), Ho-oh munches up Venusaur like candy.
  5. j99ubers

    j99ubers

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    Yes a mixed set is pretty much required to stop the special set from being walled by Blissey.
  6. sharkz

    sharkz

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    Just a small note, you seem to refer to Power Whip as the main option on the SD set, but Power Whip isn't even slashed with Seed Bomb. I agree with Darkamber that it should be the main slash, Venusaur doesn't have great attack and he kinda needs Power Whip to do damage imo.
  7. Corrupted

    Corrupted

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    The Growth set wants to be mixed.

    Power Whip can net a OHKO on Bliss and EQ has more power than HP Ground. HP Fire should be an option too, as it still deals with steel and get a boost from sun.
  8. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    The main reason Power Whip isnt being slashed in guys is because its very possible that it isnt obtainable due to all the Dream World Bulbasuars so far being male.
  9. Ditto

    Ditto /me huggles
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    Needs some format fixes

    one per set.

    One per analysis, not per set.
  10. Erebyssial

    Erebyssial

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    This is kind of a nitpick, but since this is an Ubers analysis, imo the Overview shouldn't mention that Venusaur was outclassed by Celebi/Shaymin in DPP when they weren't even used in ubers. I dunno, maybe it'd be better to just mention that Venusaur previously had literally no use in ubers and go straight into talking about how Chlorophyll changed that.
  11. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Hopefully fixed the format errors, and I will be adding a mixed sweeper set tomorrow. From what I saw of it, it has potential, but I need to test it some more.
  12. SOMALIA

    SOMALIA The King
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    This is a minor but in the ev spread there should be a space between each stat and the slash eg. evs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe ;)

    Also there should not be any space between the '</p>' and the end of each paragraph and <p> and the beginning of each paragraph.
  13. tripe

    tripe

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    Hmm, a few nitpicks, why not mention growth on the physical set, does the same as swords dance. For the counters section, you neglected to mention that both Skymin and Rayquaza take heavy amounts of damage, especially if they swapped into a sludge bomb. Rayquaza has to be near full hp in order to swap in, due to sr. Ray takes 59% + 25% from sludge bomb and sr, unboosted. Skymin is Ohkoed regardless of rocks. For the physical set, Ray also risks being sleep powdered, which in turn makes him utterly useless, since Ray doesn't usually pack sleep talk.
  14. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Did some testing of a Mixed set since my last post, and I decided to add it. I also updated the counters section, and added some other team options.
  15. firecape

    firecape This is the end...
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    [​IMG]

    QC approved 1/3
  16. Fizz

    Fizz

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    The Mixed set is missing 4 EVs if I'm not mistaken.
  17. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    It is, thanks for catching that.
  18. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    I'm wondering what the EVs on the Mixed Attacker are achieving. If you want some HP EVs, you may as well give 32 so Venusaur gets a Life Orb number or something. Something like 32 HP / 160 Atk / 92 SpA / 216 Spe should do fine (I'd prefer to just see all the HP EVs get put into SpA to be honest).
  19. Theorymon

    Theorymon You have a fever. I prescribe more dead angels.
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    [​IMG]

    QC approved 2 /3

    Of course Im approving this, I tested Venusaur a lot and its good in Ubers! However your set comments need a LOT of expanding, I'll post the info you need tomorrow since Im sleepy atm.
  20. spiderweb

    spiderweb

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    You can also put Solarbeam over Seed Bomb or Energy Ball cause in sun it dont need to recharce.
  21. Jibaku

    Jibaku Balance is a fool's master
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    ^Grass Knot is superior to Solarbeam because most ubers are heavy anyways. Also Solarbeam has a recharge turn whenever it's not sunny, which is bad when things like Rayquaza switch in on the turn you press "Solarbeam" and you just become a sitting duck

    [​IMG]

    QC approved 3 /3
    Doesn't need a 3rd stamp really but eh
  22. umbarsc

    umbarsc

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    I'm not sure why Growth isn't slashed in on the Swords Dance set. PP is probably an issue, but the analysis doesn't give any reason. Growth adds another layer of uncertainty to the set, since it gives you the possibility of packing a +2 Sludge Bomb or HP Fire and makes it trickier for the opponent to switch into before the rest of the moves are revealed.
  23. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    I mentioned it in Optional Changes: "On the physical set, running Growth over Swords Dance has its merit. While Swords Dance screams "physical attacker", Growth's buff allows you to bluff a mixed or special set."

    I'll try it out later; I may end up slashing it in if it tests well.
  24. calze6

    calze6

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    Wouldn't power whip or seed bomb be better on the SD set?
  25. drcossack

    drcossack I'm everywhere, you ain't never there

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    Seed Bomb is already there...

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