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Venusaur (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Furai, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    STATUS: Done!

    Code:
    [B][U]QC checks:[/U][/B] trickroom, Poppy, barry4ever [B][3/3][/B]
    [B][U]GP checks:[/U][/B] Zystral, SuperJOCKE (Redew) [B][2/2][/B]
    Venusaur is shit an I just want to get it over 9.9

    [Overview]

    <p>Venusaur hit the jackpot in Generation V, as it received Chlorophyll from the Dream World, making it a dangerous offensive threat under the sun, even in Ubers. Growth also provides a +2 boost to both Attack and Special Attack in the sun, which means Venusaur's offensive stats will both skyrocket to over 500 with just one use of Growth. With Groudon reliably providing everlasting sun, all Venusaur needs is one turn of setup to wreak havoc with its boosted attacks. Access to Sleep Powder sets Venusaur apart from other Chlorophyll users such as Shiftry, making it much easier for Venusaur to set up. Venusaur's Poison typing also allows it to absorb Toxic Spikes, letting it support the rest of its team while also maintaining a strong offensive presence. Unfortunately, it isn't all sunshine and happiness for our giant plant monster; weather changers that can instantly remove Venusaur's valuable sunlight are prominent in Ubers. Moreover, Venusaur's offensive stats are simply not good enough for it to significantly damage titanic walls such as Lugia, Ho-Oh, and Giratina. Its STAB attacks are also resisted by Dragon- and Steel-type Pokemon - two of the most common types in the tier, most of which can sponge even boosted hits. Despite these flaws, Venusaur is not to be underestimated; with the proper support, it can mow through entire teams with ease.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Special Growth
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Grass Knot
    move 4: Sludge Bomb / Hidden Power Fire
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Modest
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With Growth and Chlorophyll doubling its Special Attack and Speed, respectively, this set utilizes the sun to its full capacity. After one Growth, Venusaur reaches 492 Special Attack, allowing it to strike on the opponent's team for high damage. Sleep Powder makes Venusaur a frightening setup sweeper, as not only does it shut down its counters by putting them to sleep, but it also grants Venusaur an easier time setting up. Venusaur's main attack and STAB in Grass Knot hits very hard due to the vast amount of heavy Pokemon in the Ubers metagame. In fact, after a Growth, Venusaur can OHKO max HP Normal Arceus that has taken Stealth Rock damage. Sludge Bomb provides great overall coverage and a secondary STAB, OHKOing Manaphy and Rayquaza after a Growth, whereas Hidden Power Fire snipes the Steel-types that usually counter Venusaur, such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Skarmory.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread, in conjunction with a Modest nature, maximizes Venusaur's Special Attack. 216 EVs are invested in Speed so Venusaur can outspeed Choice Scarf Garchomp under the sun; the remaining 40 EVs are put in HP. Life Orb jacks up the power of Venusaur's attacks, and is thus the best choice for an item. Leftovers seems like a good option on paper, but Venusaur not only misses the power boost provided by Life Orb, but it won't be taking too many hits anyway. An alternative spread consisting 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe with Timid nature can be used in order to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion, but the loss in power is very notable, and Venusaur needs all the firepower it can get.</p>

    <p>Groudon is a vital teammate, as the sun it summons allows Venusaur to sweep. Moreover, Groudon can lay down Stealth Rock, which is crucial for obtaining some OHKOs, such as against Ho-Oh, which gets OHKOed by a +2 Sludge Bomb. Entry hazards in general are helpful, as they weaken the foe's team on each switch-in, allowing Venusaur to sweep with ease. Forretress and Deoxys-S can lay down Spikes, but be careful with Toxic Spikes, as they will make Sleep Powder useless. Reshiram, Darkrai, and Mewtwo are outstanding teammates, as they benefit from Venusaur's typing, which allows it to remove Toxic Spikes instantly. In addition, all of the above can defeat Lugia and Giratina, two Pokemon that can block Venusaur endlessly. Rock Arceus and Zekrom defeat Ho-Oh that threaten Venusaur with its STAB moves and high bulk, whereas a Ho-Oh of your own can be used to defeat the Steel-types that wall this set, such as Dialga, Ferrothorn, and Forretress, though the latter two must be wary of Hidden Power Fire and must pack Gyro Ball (or Thunder Wave, in Ferrothorn's case) to stand up to Venusaur.</p>

    <p>SolarBeam's Base Power remains 120 regardless of the foe's weight, but is too dependant on weather. In a metagame with rain lurking everywhere due to Kyogre, SolarBeam makes for one of the riskiest moves. Hidden Power Ice can be used in the last slot to OHKO Giratina-O after a Growth and Stealth Rock damage, but that's its only use. Giratina will never be OHKOed by it, whereas Zekrom and Rayquaza are easily OHKOed by +2 Sludge Bomb. Substitute can be used to scout switch-ins, but will result in less coverage or firepower, and is generally outclassed by Sleep Powder.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Mixed Growth
    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Grass Knot
    move 3: Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    move 4: Earthquake
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Naive
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 92 Atk / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Venusaur can run a mixed set very well; Growth doubles both its Attack and Special Attack under sun, enabling it to hit hard with a greater selection of moves. After a Growth, Venusaur's Attack and Special Attack jump to a sky-high 446 and 598 respectively with the given EVs. STAB Grass Knot and Sludge Bomb give it coverage on many common threats in Ubers, and are Venusaur's most powerful attacks. After a Growth, Grass Knot OHKOes Groudon and Kyogre with ease, whereas Sludge Bomb maims the Dragon-types that resist Grass Knot, as well as OHKOing Shaymin-S. Earthquake offers excellent neutral coverage along with Venusaur's other moves, smacking the Steel-types that resist Venusaur's Grass STAB and are immune to its Poison STAB, such as Dialga. Sleep Powder can be used over Sludge Bomb for an easier setup, but Venusaur will miss out on a significant degree of coverage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Naive nature, along with the Speed EVs, will allow Venusaur to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion, one of the most prominent Choice Scarf users in the metagame. 252 SpA EVs are used to maximize the damage output done by Grass Knot and Sludge Bomb, and the leftover EVs are dumped into Attack to bump up Earthquake's power.</p>

    <p>Due to the fact that this set does not maximize either of Venusaur's offensive stats, it needs team support to take down some of the defensive behemoths such as Giratina and Lugia, both of which can sponge all of its attacks with ease. Darkrai can set up on them with Dark Void and Nasty Plot, and 2HKO both with Dark Pulse after a Nasty Plot boost. Venusaur also needs entry hazard support to give it a chance of OHKOing Kyogre with an unboosted Grass Knot. Once again, Forretress and Deoxys-S are the prime candidates for this role, utilizing great defensive bulk and a high Speed stat, respectively. Pokemon who can help Venusaur set up such Darkrai and Wobbuffet make good teammates as well. Darkrai can incapacitate the opponent with Dark Void and give Venusaur a free turn to set up Growth; Wobbuffet does the same with Encore.</p>

    <p>Venusaur can run some other moves on this set: SolarBeam's 120 Base Power is permanent, but it is too weather-dependent, making Grass Knot the superior option, especially in a metagame full of Kyogre. Seed Bomb, with a spread of 252 Atk / 92 SpA / 164 Spe and the same nature, can be used as Venusaur's Grass STAB to hit harder on the physical side, but Grass Knot hits much harder. Hidden Power Fire OHKOes Ferrothorn after a Growth, but Venusaur will have trouble fitting it on this set. Similiarly, Hidden Power Ice can be used to KO Rayquaza as it switches in to revenge kill Venusaur. Hidden Power Rock OHKOes Ho-Oh, but is generally inferior.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Sleep Powder
    move 3: Seed Bomb
    move 4: Earthquake
    ability: Chlorophyll
    nature: Jolly
    item: Life Orb
    evs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a powerful STAB of Seed Bomb, Earthquake to hit grounded Steel-types that sponge its STAB, and Sleep Powder to incapacitate the opponent and nab it a free turn of setup, Venusaur makes a fantastic Swords Dance user. Sleep Powder sets Venusaur apart from the other run-of-the-mill Chlorophyll users, and becomes massively useful with BW's sleep mechanics: Venusaur can come in, put the opponent to sleep, and set up Swords Dance with impunity. Seed Bomb is Venusaur's most powerful STAB attack, decimating anything that doesn't resist it. After a Swords Dance, Seed Bomb OHKOes Kyogre and all but the most defensive variants of Groudon. Earthquake complements Seed Bomb nicely, as it hits the Dragon- and Steel-types that resist the former move very hard; specifically it 2HKOes Dialga and Steel Arceus after the boost.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Jolly nature in conjuction with the 164 EVs invested in Speed allows Venusaur to outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion, an extremely dominant Choice Scarf user in the Ubers metagame. Attack is maximized to deal more damage, and the rest are dumped into HP for additional bulk. An Adamant nature can be used with a spread of 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe to hit much harder, but Venusaur will not be able to outrun Choice Scarf Terrakion. This is relevant because Terrakion strips away 61.09% - 72.34% of Venusaur's health with its STAB Stone Edge. Life Orb is used to boost Veusaur's attacks power, while still retaining the ability to change moves.</p>

    <p>To function effectively, Venusaur needs a lot of team support. It is glaringly obvious that Groudon needs to be around with its everlasting sunlight for Venusaur to actually do anything, making it a compulsory teammate. Weather changers such as Tyranitar and the ubiquitous Kyogre will remove the sun that Venusaur needs, though they need to be careful when switching in as they will get wrecked by a boosted Seed Bomb. Thus, Pokemon who can eliminate these threats will make great teammates for Venusaur. Blaziken can smash Tyranitar with Hi Jump Kick, and fits into sun teams very well, but it can only finish off weakened Kyogre. Zekrom OHKOes Kyogre and 2HKOes Tyranitar with Bolt Strike while taking unboosted Stone Edges from the latter with ease.</p>

    <p>Lugia and Giratina put a full stop to Venusaur's sweep, as they can sponge its boosted attacks and phaze it with Whirlwind or Dragon Tail. Pokemon that can deal with the aforementioned Pokemon will help Venusaur immensely. Darkrai comes to mind immediately, as it can put them to sleep with Dark Void, set up with Nasty Plot, and 2HKO with STAB Dark Pulse (thus nullifying the sleep clause for Venusaur); however, Giratina commonly runs Sleep Talk and has a small chance of phazing Darkrai with Dragon Tail. Mewtwo can hurt both of the previously mentioned Pokemon significantly with Ice Beam, but will get phazed before it can KO them. Entry hazard support also greatly helps Venusaur; with 1 layers of Spikes and Stealth Rock, an un-boosted Seed Bomb will always OHKO 4 HP Kyogre. Deoxys-S makes a great choice for setting up Stealth Rock and Spikes thanks to its massive base 180 Speed. Forretress, although it compounds Venusaur's Fire-type weakness, can lay down Toxic Spikes in addition to spinning away entry hazards that trouble Venusaur - note the overlap with Venusaur's Sleep Powder, however.</p>

    <p>Venusaur also has a few alternative options it can use. Growth can be used to bluff a mixed set and lure in threats which Venusaur can promptly shut down with Sleep Powder. However, because rain is quite common in Ubers, Venusaur could find itself boosting much less quickly, making Swords Dance the better choice most of the time. Ho-Oh poses a massive threat to Venusaur, so Double-Edge can be used to smack it hard on the switch-in, but the recoil damage will cause Venusaur's early demise, and Venusaur will have to drop either Sleep Powder or a superior coverage option to accommodate it.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Sadly, Venusaur does not have many other options. A set featuring Substitute, Sleep Powder and Leech Seed can be used, utilizing Venusaur's Speed in sun, but Venusaur is just not bulky enough to utilize it. There are other Hidden Power types that can be used on the Special Growth set: Hidden Power Rock can be used to OHKO Ho-Oh at +2, and Hidden Power Ground can be used to hit Dialga, but the coverage they provide is very shallow. Moreover, if you want Venusaur to be able to get past Dialga, it's better to use the Mixed Growth set. Energy Ball can be used to hit the lighter Uber Pokemon, such as Manaphy, but Sludge Bomb hits hard enough, and in Manaphy's case, it OHKOs at +2. Outrage, Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, and Power Whip are unfortunately illegal with Chlorophyll.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Sleep Powder allows Venusaur to set up on its counters, thus making it very hard to defeat. However, it is very inaccurate, making it a somewhat unreliable method to get past counters. Extremely fast Choice Scarf users, such as Mewtwo, Darkrai, and Shaymin-S, outspeed Venusaur even after the Chlorophyll boost and strike very hard with their STAB moves. Strong priority moves, such as Extreme Killer Arceus's ExtremeSpeed or Scizor's Bullet Punch, wear down Venusaur easily, whereas Thundurus's Prankster Thunder Wave hinders Venusaur, as even in the sun Venusaur's Speed will be a half of its original Speed.</p>

    <p>The Giratina formes completely shut down Venusaur, as they resist both of its STABs and are extremely bulky. Moreover, both can phaze Venusaur with their STAB Dragon Tail, whereas Giratina-O, who is also immune to Earthquake, can easily OHKO with a Draco Meteor. Choice Scarf Kyogre changes the weather, outspeeding Venusaur as Chlorophyll is canceled, and OHKOes with a super effective Ice Beam. Rayquaza is faster due to Air Lock which cancels the effects of the weather, and OHKOes with Fire Blast, V-create, Outrage, or Draco Meteor. Ho-Oh and Lugia resist Venusaur's Grass STAB and can tank a boosted Sludge Bomb due to their extremely high base 154 Special Defense, though the former needs Stealth Rock off the field to counter Venusaur reliably. Latias needs Psyshock or a few Calm Mind boosts under her belt in order to counter Venusaur, as Venusaur strips off 57.69% minimum with a +2 Sludge Bomb, and Dragon Pulse is not wielding an OHKO.</p>

    <p>The Special set is fairly hard to stop, as Grass Knot hits extremely hard, and Sludge Bomb provides great neutral coverage. Heatran and Dialga are not only immune to Sludge Bomb and quadruple-resist Grass Knot, but they are also able to put a stop to Venusaur's sweep with their STAB moves. Chansey and Blissey can tank even a +6 Sludge Bomb, which does 50.62% - 59.81% to the former and 62.26% - 73.31% to the latter, and procceed to stall Venusaur with Softboiled, Wish, and Seismic Toss. If they have been put to sleep by Sleep Powder, Natural Cure awakens them as they switch. If Hidden Power Fire is used over Sludge Bomb, Dragon-types such as Salamence will wall this set, as they can easily OHKO Venusaur with a Fire Blast. If Hidden Power Ice is used, Steel-types can tank Venusaur's hits with ease.</p>

    <p>The Swords Dance set is easier to stop, though you must be wary of Sleep Powder, as you do not want your counter to fall asleep. Skarmory, Bronzong, and Scizor put a full stop to it due to their Steel-typing, and can hit back with their STAB moves. Ferrothorn and Forretress can only beat this set if they carry Gyro Ball or Thunder Wave, respectively. Grass, Bug, and Flying Arceus resist Seed Bomb and Earthquake (Flying Arceus is immune), can Recover the damage, burn Venusaur with Will-O-Wisp, or put an end to its sweep by using Flying Judgment or Ice Beam. Tornadus and Shaymin-S also fall in the same boat as Flying Arceus, easily OHKOing Venusaur with their Flying STAB.</p>

    <p>Tyranitar deserves a mention for changing to weather to sandstorm, but aside from that, it can do nothing. +1 Grass Knot in sandstorm does 83.16 - 98.01% to max HP and Special Defense Tyranitar, landing an OHKO after Stealth Rock damage, while Fire Blast will not OHKO Venusaur. If Earthquake is not present in Venusaur's moves, Dialga stops it cold. The rare Metagross can take anything bar a +2 sun-boosted Hidden Power Fire, and can strike very hard with its STAB Meteor Mash or Zen Headbutt. The former will OHKO Venusaur if Choice Band is used as the item, whereas Zen Headbutt will always OHKO. Hitting fast is recommended, as once Venusaur sets up a Growth or a Swords Dance, it will hit extremely hard.</p>
  2. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Yes, this double post is necessary to get your attention.

    I am putting this question on the table: Do you guys think these EVs are a must? Is outspeeding the most prominent Choice Scarf user, Terrakion, really needed?

    shrang said that in #ubers, and added that Venusaur needs all the power it can have. Plus Groudon support is a must, so that keeps Terrakion in check. But what if the foe has all hazards, thus Groudon cannot do its job reliably? Losing the weather war is also an option. Terrakion does over 66% with Stone Edge to Venusaur.
  3. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Fuck you, pay me
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    Power-boosting nature at least deserves a slash, outspeeding Scarf Terrakion is cool but 80 / 100 attacking stats aren't really that impressive in Ubers, and you don't really miss out on much else. I think you should have both slashed.
  4. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Its not as simple as just slashing in a nature since with the nature change, the Speed EVs have to be fine-tuned to outspeed the relevant Pokemon i.e Terrakion. So, the question is, is it worth outspeeding Terrakion and losing the power ? Well, that depends on the KOes Venusaur loses when it runs that particular EV set. So, looking at the damage calcs for the set, the only notable OHKOes Venusaur misses at +2 are on Garchomp, Timid Palkia (small chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock), Offensive Mewtwo (small chance to OHKO with SR) and Arceus-Steel. Frankly, I don't really like this but i can just swallow it. Now, lets look at the Special Growth set. After a +2, while running Timid Venusaur misses assured OHKOes on practically every Calm Mind Arceus forme, Manaphy, 252/0 Dialga and Zekrom with a bit of HP investment. So, Special Growth Venusaur should stick to the old 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe Modest spread definitely. You can mention the spread in AC though.

    SETS

    Mixed growth definitely should not be the first set. Venusaur needs Sleep Powder to set up otherwise, its frail and is OHKOed by pretty much everything. The set order imo should be SD -> Mixed Growth -> Special. Doesn't matter if Mixed Growth is before.

    -Deslash Solarbeam and relegate it to AC with that disclaimer of yours.
    -Slash Sleep Powder in the last slot and not the first. Without Growth, Venusaur is weak and not doing any damge to anyone. So imo the set should look like:

    move 1: Growth
    move 2: Grass Knot
    move 3: Sludge Bomb
    move 4: Sleep Powder / Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire

    I want the rest of QC to weigh in on this specifically.

    Checks and Counters

    -Looks good, just mention that LO Adamant Arceus can do a truckload of damage to it, with a very high chance to OHKO after 1 turn LO recoil + Stealth Rock. You are also missing Lugia as a counter to the SD set, just avoid switching in on Sleep Powder.

    I shall shtamp this after some input . _ .
  5. trickroom

    trickroom
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    -252 HP Lugia takes 57.7% - 68%
    -252 HP / 80 SpD Lugia takes 54.8% - 64.4%

    Never OHKO after SR. Change the OHKO to 2HKO guaranteed with SR. Keep in mind all these calculations are assuming Modest Venusaur with 328 Special Attack stat. The quoted sentence is pretty funny because Ho-Oh and Lugia have the same Special Defense. Lugia won't get killed if Ho-Oh is walling Venusaur all day. Just saying, Ho-Oh is KOed by +2 Sludge Bomb after SR damage.

    I am agreeing with barry about the nature changes. Swords Dance can just use Jolly nature while Special Growth must use Modest. Most things coming in on Venusaur will be slower than you under the sun anyway, such as Arceus, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Giratina, Blissey.

    Like what barry said, drop Solarbeam to AC. It is way too risky to use it in Ubers where Kyogre are everywhere. Grass Knot is the best option because most Ubers are heavy and it has the advantage of OHKOing max HP Arceus at +2. Add in mentions of Leaf Storm somewhere because has a good chance to OHKO +0 Mewtwo after SR, 84.1% - 99.4%. You can just switch out after using it. Frailer light threats such as Darkrai will die to Sludge Bomb anyway while Blissey won't be killing Venusaur soon ( allowing you to Growth multiple times) unless Blissey has Fire Blast.

    I think Sleep Powder should be a main option because Venusaur needs it to set up. Move Sleep Powder to move 3 and Sludge Bomb into move 4 with Hidden Power Fire slash. Sleep Powder can also force a lot of switches.

    I will say move Hidden Power Ice to AC. Giratina isn't dying to it easily anyway and Zekrom/Rayquaza are KOed by +2 Sludge Bomb. Another thing is Venusaur should not be staying in on Rayquaza anyway, because Rayquaza will KO you first due to Air Lock before you can retaliate. Only real use of Hidden Power Ice is to KO Giratina-O.

    Coverage issues but Grass Knot + Sludge Bomb is still fine. If Ferrothorn, Skarmory and Forretress give you problems, use Hidden Power Fire. Lugia can shrug of Sludge Bomb anyway. Ho-Oh still destroys you after someone took the Sleep.

    You are also missing Giratina as a counter to the SD set besides Lugia who also at least checks all the sets. Giratina takes nothing from SD Venusaur while Sleep Talk means it is not useless while sleeping. Mention Forretress and Ferrothorn will be set up on by the SD set if they lack Gyro Ball or Thunder Wave in Ferrothorn's case.

    Tyranitar is only messing up the weather. It has no hope to stop a Venusaur sweep because it will die to a boosted Grass Knot or Seed Bomb. +1 Grass Knot does 83.2% - 98% to max HP / max SpD Tyranitar while Fire Blast does not even OHKO Venusaur in return.

    I think the set order should be Special > SD > Mixed.
    Reasons:
    -Venusaur has higher Special Attack than Attack
    -Grass Knot and Sludge Bomb are much stronger than Seed Bomb or Earthquake against most Ubers. Hidden Power Fire + Grass Knot is a cool combination. Manaphy dies to Sludge Bomb.
    -Most Ubers have higher SpD but Venusaur's stronger Special moves allow it to get past most offensive threats anyway such as Palkia who dies to Grass Knot.
    -Blissey and Chansey can't do much to Venusaur anyway because it is immune to Toxic.
    -Sludge Bomb allows a boosted Venusaur to at least strip off a good amount from things like Ho-Oh or Lugia. SD loses easily. Special Venusaur also OHKOes Arceus with +2 Grass Knot something SD cannot do.

    Other than those,
    [​IMG]
  6. gookie

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    Energy ball needs a mention for the lighter ubers, namely Manaphy. Mention really fast scarfers like Mewtwo, Shaymin-S and Darkrai can outpace Venusaur.

    Giga Drain is illegal with chlorophyll iirc, otherwise it'd be good cos it beats blissey.

    Yeah Giratina/-o needs to be emphasised, resisting both stabs and in the case of the SD set being immune to earthquake as well (not that giratina-a takes that much from it anyway lol).

    Then implement the rest of trickroom's checks and you'll get your stamp from me.
  7. barry4ever

    barry4ever
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    Agree to the above but only if this is implented:

    [​IMG]
  8. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    Does anyone else think the SD set sucks? It's pretty weak, has crappy coverage and walled by virtually everything. The only major thing it kills that the other sets don't kill is Blissey, which you end up sacrificing the ability to beat many other things for. Most of the counters you can "cripple" with Sleep Powder you end up losing to anyway. You can go ahead and SD up to +6, you're still losing to Ho-Oh, Lugia, Giratina and others.
  9. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Okay, I have implemented everything. I am not going to write this up yet as I see you have more input, but I do want to get it done asap.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, in Checks and Counters, the in general section was meant to be all-round counters. I editted that in.
  10. trickroom

    trickroom
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    You have to change to a Modest nature for the Special Growth set. EVs are changed but nature is not.

    I actually think shrang is right. Move SD to the last set. It gets walled so easily, only advantage it has is blasting Heatran and Dialga with a +2 Earthquake. Mixed set can do it too anyway. Seed Bomb is just so weak ( Venusaur's physical Attack stat is crap by Ubers standards ), although it smacks Kyogre hard it can never OHKO. Grass Knot is almost always the better option in Ubers ( Think Groudon, Arceus, Palkia and friends )

    You need to mention Latias needs Psyshock or it will get 2HKOed by +2 Sludge Bomb. Dragon Pulse fails to KO Venusaur, Roar works too I guess. Another check you missed is Specially Defensive Mewtwo / Stalltwo. It can survive +2 Grass Knot or Sludge Bomb with Special Defense EVs and OHKO back with Psytrike. Metagross is an annoying threat if you drop Hidden Power Fire and it can survive +2 Earthquake. CB Meteor Mash or Zen Headbutt will knock out Venusaur in one hit.
  11. gookie

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    qc approved 4/3
  12. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Oops. Got all implemented, trickroom.
  13. shrang

    shrang I AM CHAMPION CHRISTMAS!!
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    I was more thinking about removing it altogether, the Mixed Growth set does 95% of what it does already. It's just a mediocre set and OO material, IMO, although if you want to keep it, I don't mind all that much, I guess.
  14. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    Ummm... Could I start writing this?
  15. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
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    This is written and good for GP checks.
  16. Calm Pokemaster

    Calm Pokemaster
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    um -

    Put that in paragraphs, and I will then GP it.
  17. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Oof, I forgot to remove my skeleton stuff. Got it.
  18. Zystral

    Zystral めんどくさい、な~
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    1/2
  19. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Thanks Zystral, your check is implemented. Bring on check number two!
  20. Redew

    Redew Play Star Wars: The Old Republic with me! (PM me)
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    Placeholder

    Very well written.
  21. SuperJOCKE

    SuperJOCKE Lowtier Warrior!
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    Great.

    GP Approved 2/2

    [​IMG]
  22. Furai

    Furai a Ωdefender // a αguardian
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Great, thanks for the stamp SPJ and Redew for the check! Good to upload~
  23. bojangles

    bojangles IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE,
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