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Vespiquen (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Lolk, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    [​IMG]
    [Overview]

    <p>It's not difficult to understand why Vespiquen struggles to fit in NU, as it is a wall with a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. First, Vespiquen's typing and lack of Speed allows most sweepers to scare it out and gain easy boosts. To add insult to injury, Vespiquen's movepool is horrendously small and predictable. Luckily, a Bug / Flying typing makes Vespiquen a decent Sawk and Golurk check, and Pressure is a decent ability for drawn out matches. Typically, however, the amount of support Vespiquen needs is not worth the trouble of using it in a match.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Wall
    move 1: Protect
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Attack Order
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    ability: Pressure
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Vespiquen's greatest niche is its ability Pressure, which can turn threatening scenarios in its favor. For example, Close Combat can only be used four times, greatly helping Vespiquen's survivability. Protect is the most important move, as it stalls the opponent's PP and gains Leftovers recovery. Roost adds on to the longevity, granting Vespiquen more walling opportunities. Toxic is its most reliable damaging source, seriously crippling many Pokemon that switch into Vespiquen. Attack Order prevents Vespiquen from being Taunt bait, and it has decent power for a wall.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The most important thing to recognize when supporting Vespiquen is that it needs Rapid Spin support to function decently as a wall; Wartortle is the best option because its typing synergizes the best with Vespiquen out of all the NU Rapid Spinners. Cleric support is also highly recommended, as residual damage will drastically limit Vespiquen's walling capabilities; Audino is a great partner for this job, since Vespiquen can take Fighting-type attacks aimed at it. Garbodor, the Toxic Spikes setter that synergizes best with Vespiquen, is a helpful partner since Toxic Spikes support saves Vespiquen many extra turns to heal itself instead of using Toxic. Misdreavus is a cool partner that fits the stall playstyle well because it offers a fast Taunt that can keep Stealth Rock off the field. Partners with phazing moves, such as Bastiodon, make great partners, as they can force out sweepers that set up on Vespiquen. One last, great partner is defensive Seismitoad, as its typing covers almost all of Vespiquen's weaknesses while Vespiquen 4x resists its Grass-type weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Substitute is a decent option for Vespiquen, but Vespiquen's low Speed prevents it from blocking any status moves. Defend Order seems like a cool move, but Vespiquen needs the moves it already has to efficiently stall. A Hone Claws + Acrobatics set is possible but is terribly outclassed by offensive Pokemon that don't have a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, such as Swellow and Drifblim. The Custap Berry + Destiny Bond combination is surprising but is gimmicky at best. Vespiquen has access to Swagger, but it is entirely luck reliant so it will often let you down. Vespiquen can set up weather, but Pokemon with better typings and abilities are more suited for the job.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>First things first: Stealth Rock is the most reliable method to check Vespiquen. Other than that, Steel- and Poison-types can't be touched by Vespiquen, so they make great counters. Substitute sweepers, such as Misdreavus, Drifblim, and Braviary, can all set up on Vespiquen and not fear Attack Order. Rock-type coverage from Pokemon such as Sawk, Primeape, and Golem is a great way to check Vespiquen as well. Taunt users that are not weak to Attack Order, such as Samurott, also make good checks. Lastly, special attackers with super effective coverage, such as Charizard, check Vespiquen reliably.</p>

    Skeleton (open)

    u can call me queen bee

    [Overview]
    • Very few stall teams enjoy a wall with a 4x Stealth Rock weakness.
    • Typing makes it a decent Sawk / Golurk check.
    • Pressure is pretty cool for a wall.
    • Its movepool is poo.
    • It's typing and lack of Speed allows most sweepers (especially with substitute) to scare out Vespiquen and gain easy boosts.
    • Isn't worth the support it needs to function decently.
    [SET]
    name: Wall
    move 1: Protect
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Attack Order
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    ability: Pressure
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Vespiquen's greatest niche is Pressure, which can turn long, stally matches in the team's favor.
    • Protect is the most important move because it drains PP from Pokemon limiting their moves, most importantly Stone Edge spam.
    • Toxic is Vespiquen's most reliable damage source.
    • Roost is so it doesn't die.
    • Attack Order prevents Vespiquen from being Taunt bait, and it has decent power for a wall.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Needs Rapid Spin support so it doesn't die early in the match. Wartortle is probably the best bet since it doesn't share the Stealth Rock weakness and they semi-cover each other's weaknesses.
    • Cleric Support is also highly recommended, as Vespiquen needs as much HP as it can muster to wall. Audino is the best bet, as it can pass Wishes to Vesipiquen (helping with its SR weakness) and Vespiquen covers its Fighting weakness.
    • Misdreavus is a good partner in the stall playstyle that can possibly keep Stealth Rock off the field with Taunt.
    • Toxic Spikes support from Garbodor is very helpful, as it saves Vespiquen a turn to leave itself vulnerable. Scolipede and Roselia also can accomplish this, but they stack weaknesses with Vespiquen.
    • Phazing partners such as Bastiodon are needed to Roar out the many Pokemon that Setup on Vespiquen.
    • Seismitoad is a cool defensive partner as they cover each other's weaknesses well.
    [Other Options]
    • Substitute seems like a cool option, but Vespiquen is too slow to block any status attacks.
    • Hone Claws with Acrobatics and Attack order is an option, but it is outclassed by faster and stronger Pokemon that don't have a 4x SR weakness.
    • Defend Order seems good on paper, but Vespiquen needs the moves it has more to effeciently stall.
    • Custap Berry + Destiny Bond is fun, but gimmicky.
    • Swagger but luck reliant.
    • It can set up weather, but Pokemon that have reliable typings and better abilities are more suited for the job.
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Stealth Rock
    • Vespiquen can't touch Poison- and Steel-types. Ghost's such as Haunter, Misdreavus, and Drifblim also resist and can avoid Toxics by their typing or with Substitute.
    • Pokemon with Rock-type coverage moves (Sawk, Primeape, etc.) are decent checks, but it is not a safe move to Choice lock into, especially with Pressure
    • Special attackers with super effective coverage (Charizard, Jynx, etc.) can easily outspeed and KO Vespiquen.
    • Substitute sweepers such as Braviary are great counters that can manipulate the set.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2014
  2. scorpdestroyer

    scorpdestroyer is a pious radio
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    Sawk should get a mention as a partner imo, it sort of covers up on Vespiquen's Rock weakness and beats Stealth Rock leads pretty reliably
  3. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Yea I agree. My only worry is that Sawk isn't good in stall. But I am also gonna list Misdreavus as a good Stall mon that can keep rocks of the field.
  4. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
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    [Overview]
    • I wouldn't call it total setup bait. Toxic keeps it from being set up on by most stuff. Only problem is that a lot of setup sweepers either scare it out or have Sub (I'm thinking Carracosta, Braviary). I'd just say its weaknesses are really exploitable and can lead to free setup for the opponents.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • tbh I'd rather CB Sawk not be mentioned. If I'm going to be using Vespiquen for any reason (not that I could think of one, but still), it definitely won't be a team that can fit CB Sawk onto it. This is one exception to the "NU spinners all suck" rule that leads to Sawk being mentioned in the analyses of like 90% of SR weak mons. Spinners are definitely better in this instance.
    • I'd probably only mention Garbodor for Toxic Spikes supporters; they don't cover each others' weaknesses particularly well, but they also don't stack weaknesses, which makes Roselia and especially Scolipede pretty bad to use alongside Vespiquen.
    [Other Options]
    • Honestly, a Custap Destiny Bond set sounds really cool and could probably be the set for Vespiquen lol. But I'm not going to spend an ample amount of time on a Vespiquen analysis. vOv
    This is fine. Only important changes are the AC ones, and I trust you to remove mentions of three Pokemon, so:

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 1/3
  5. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Ty Treecko
  6. Soulgazer

    Soulgazer
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    [Checks and Counters]

    I would mention that Vespiquen can't touch Ghost-type such as Haunter, Drifblim, and Misdreavus too, since Vespiquen can only dream to Toxic the last two if they don't end up setting up a Substitute or Taunt it.

    Other than that, this looks good!

    [​IMG]
    QC 2/3 Lolkomori you can write this up :toast:
  7. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Thanks soul I will probably write this up tonight.
  8. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast DOES THIS LOOK LIKE THE FACE OF MERCY TO YOU!?!?
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  9. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Thanks Dat Blast :)
  10. piikachuu

    piikachuu now with a scarf
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    [Overview]

    <p>It's not difficult to understand why Vespiquen struggles to fit in NU, as it is a wall with a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. First, Vespiquen's typing and lack of Speed allows most sweepers to scare it out and gain easy boosts. To add insult to injury, Vespiquen's movepool is horrendously small and predictable. Luckily, the Bug / Flying typing makes Vespiquen a decent Sawk and Golurk check, and Pressure is a decent ability for drawn out matches. Typically, however, the amount of support Vespiquen needs is not worth the trouble of using it in a match.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Wall
    move 1: Protect
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Attack Order
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    ability: Pressure
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Vespiquen's greatest niche is its ability Pressure, which can turn threatening scenarios in its favor. For example, Stone Edge can only be used four times, greatly helping Vespiquen's survivability. Protect is the most important move, as it stalls the opponent'(apostrophe)s PP and gains Leftovers recovery. Roost adds on to the longevity, granting Vespiquen more walling opportunities. Toxic is its most reliable damaging source, seriously crippling many Pokemon that switch into Vespiquen. Attack Order prevents Vespiquen from being Taunt bait, and it has decent power for a wall.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The most important thing to recognize when supporting Vespiquen is that it needs Rapid Spin support to function decently as a wall; Wartortle is the best option because its typing synergizes the best with Vespiquen out of all the NU Rapid Spinners. Cleric support is also highly recommended, as residual damage will drastically limit Vespiquen's walling capabilities; Audino is a great partner for this job, since Vespiquen can take the Fighting-type attacks aimed at it. Garbodor, the Toxic Spikes setter that synergizes best with Vespiquen, is a helpful partner since Toxic Spikes support saves Vespiquen many extra turns to heal itself instead of using Toxic. Misdreavus is a cool partner that fits the stall playstyle well because it offers a fast Taunt that can keep Stealth Rock off the field. Partners with phazing moves, such as Bastiodon, make great partners, as they can force out sweepers that set up on Vespiquen. One last, great partner is defensive Seismitoad, whose typing covers almost all of Vespiquen's weaknesses while Vespiquen quadruple 4x resists its Grass-type weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Substitute is a decent option for Vespiquen, but its Vespiquen's low Speed prevents Vespiquen it from blocking any status moves. Defend Order seems like a cool move, but Vespiquen needs the moves it already has to efficiently stall. A Hone Claws + Acrobatics set is possible, but it is terribly outclassed by Pokemon who don't have a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, such as [example]. The Custap Berry + Destiny Bond combination is surprising, but it is gimmicky at best. Vespiquen has access to Swagger, but it is entirely luck reliant so it will let you down. Vespiquen can set up weather, but Pokemon with better typings and abilities are more suited for the job.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>First thing'(remove apostrophe)s first: Stealth Rock is the most reliable method to check Vespiquen. Other than that, Steel- and Poison-types can't be touched by Vespiquen, so they make great counters. Substitute sweepers, such as Misreavus Misdreavus, Drifblim, and Braviary, can all set up on Vespiquen and not fear Attack Order. Rock-type coverage from Pokemon such as Sawk, Primeape, and Golem is a great way to check Vespiquen as well. Taunt users that are not weak to Attack Order, such as Samurott, also make good checks. Lastly, Sspecial attackers with Ssuper Eeffective coverage, such as Jynx and Charizard,(AC) check Vespiquen reliably.</p>



    nice job, gp 1/2
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  11. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    ty piikachuu
  12. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego This is what is technically known as a Firecat
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    Lolkomori

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    [Overview]

    <p>It's not difficult to understand why Vespiquen struggles to fit in NU, as it is a wall with a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock. First, Vespiquen's typing and lack of Speed allows most sweepers to scare it out and gain easy boosts. To add insult to injury, Vespiquen's movepool is horrendously small and predictable. Luckily, the a Bug / Flying typing makes Vespiquen a decent Sawk and Golurk check, and Pressure is a decent ability for drawn-out matches. Typically, however, the amount of support Vespiquen needs is not worth the trouble of using it in a match.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Wall
    move 1: Protect
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Attack Order
    item: Leftovers
    nature: Impish
    ability: Pressure
    evs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Vespiquen's greatest niche is its ability Pressure, which can turn threatening scenarios in its favor. For example, Stone Edge Close Combat imo stone edge is not a good example of a move; would vespiquen even survive one? can only be used four times, greatly helping Vespiquen's survivability. Protect is the most important move, as it stalls the opponent's PP and gains Leftovers recovery. Roost adds on to the longevity, granting Vespiquen more walling opportunities. Toxic is its most reliable damaging source, seriously crippling many Pokemon that switch into Vespiquen. Attack Order prevents Vespiquen from being Taunt bait, and it has decent power for a wall.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The most important thing to recognize when supporting Vespiquen is that it needs Rapid Spin support to function decently as a wall; Wartortle is the best option because its typing synergizes the best with Vespiquen out of all the NU Rapid Spinners. Cleric support is also highly recommended, as residual damage will drastically limit Vespiquen's walling capabilities; Audino is a great partner for this job, since Vespiquen can take the Fighting-type attacks aimed at it. Garbodor, the Toxic Spikes setter that synergizes best with Vespiquen, is a helpful partner since Toxic Spikes support saves Vespiquen many extra turns to heal itself instead of using Toxic. Misdreavus is a cool partner that fits the stall playstyle well because it offers a fast Taunt that can keep Stealth Rock off the field. Partners with phazing moves, such as Bastiodon, make great partners, as they can force out sweepers that set up on Vespiquen. One last, great partner is defensive Seismitoad, whose as its typing covers almost all of Vespiquen's weaknesses while Vespiquen 4x resists its Grass-type weakness.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Substitute is a decent option for Vespiquen, but Vespiquen's low Speed prevents it from blocking any status moves. Defend Order seems like a cool move, but Vespiquen needs the moves it already has to efficiently stall. A Hone Claws + Acrobatics set is possible but is terribly outclassed by offensive Pokemon who that don't have a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, such as Swellow and Drifblim. The Custap Berry + Destiny Bond combination is surprising but is gimmicky at best. Vespiquen has access to Swagger, but it is entirely luck reliant so it will often let you down. Vespiquen can set up weather, but Pokemon with better typings and abilities are more suited for the job.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>First things first: Stealth Rock is the most reliable method to check Vespiquen. Other than that, Steel- and Poison-types can't be touched by Vespiquen, so they make great counters. Substitute sweepers, such as Misdreavus, Drifblim, and Braviary, can all set up on Vespiquen and not fear Attack Order. Rock-type coverage from Pokemon such as Sawk, Primeape, and Golem is a great way to check Vespiquen as well. Taunt users that are not weak to Attack Order, such as Samurott, also make good checks. Lastly, special attackers with super effective coverage, such as Jynx and Charizard, check Vespiquen reliably.</p>


    Is heal order a considerable option? It lets you keep your flying type, which is a bit of a mixed bag I suppose; though vespiquen is ofter way too slow to have it make a difference. Are there any noteworthy earthquake users it's FASTER than? At the very least it's cool and isn't blocked by imprison?

    Anyway this is 2/2
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  13. Lolk

    Lolk you can't stop the beat
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    Thank you GatoDelFuego. The idea with Stone Edge was that between protect, switching out and its miss chance, Veqpiquen could possibly drain it completely out of its PP before it gets hit, but CC works too for the team support. Heal Order is cool I guess but, as you said, imprison is uncommon so it doesnt matter too much.

    This is done!
  14. Raseri

    Raseri here to help
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    uploaded!

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