VGC 17 Team Burning TRee (PS: TR is for Trick Room)(Updated 1/21/7)

#1
Hello thereShad here with a team that is very funny to use, at least in my opinion. I went over it first in the mandatory assigment and I've been using it since then, with some tweaks to it, but I have the feeling tht it still needs some polishing. But that could be me suckign at using it, but let's get into it.

The team is fully dependent on Trick Room, and that's the reason it has 2 TR setters. Also, it abuses the synergy of Sun+Plants, something I'll cover now starting with the not-so-hidden gem of the team.
EDIT: Team updated with some changes.
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(Oh boy, and I got a shiny one in the game)
Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 80 Def / 172 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wood Hammer
- Will-O-Wisp

- Protect
- Trick Room

THe first TR setter of the team, and the provider of synergy. Pair him with Torkoal or Incineroar to help with water, ground and rock weaknesses while they can help with his Ice weakness. Also, under Torkoal's sun, as logn as he isn't OHKO'ed, he can keep harvesting that Sitrus Berry forever. Pair him with Bulu and he gets a Horn Leech that hits hard. But I'll talk more about this later.Bulu no longer in the team.
Harvest is the best ability to use if you have Torkoal, and if you don't too as it is basically a 50% chance of recovering sitrus at the end of the turn.
About moves, protect as a staple for obvious reasons, the same goes for trick room. Horn leech as a STAB move and also a way of getting extra recovery.Changed to Wood Hammer so it can still get KO things without investing anything more than 4 EVs into attack. About the last mvoe is the thign I need a little help. WoW cna help tanking physicla hits, but Toxic could be better against bulky foes that can do a good amount of harm, like Ice Beam Porygon2.As I added new stuff to the team that can deal with Proygon2, I went with WoW to cripple physical attackers.
I kinda suck at making EV spreads, so I get some that someone has already worked on adn then I tweak them a bit, but this one's goal is to maximize his bulk, as the rest of the team covers damage perfectly. Throw a Sassy nature in there and there you go.Brave+Wood Hammer does wonders.

Now let's talk about my favourite pokemon this gen, ad the one I like to lead with Trevenant the most.


Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Def
Brave Nature
- Fake Out
- Knock Off
- Close Combat
- Wide Guard

Incineroar tags out as he is still lacking Intimidate, so the Supportive Proygon2 Killer enters.
Fake out to secure that TR is set, Knock Off to remove items, Close COmbat as the stab of choice and Wide Guard to support the team against things like earthquake or snarl. Snarl particularly as against Torkoal they tend to use Arcanine and then he just starts spamming Snarl, and that's something I couldn't stop before.
Flame Orb+Guts+Brave nature lets him deal insane damage, while the EVs give him some decent bulk.

Moving to Trevenant's BFF.



Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Flamethrower
- Protect

This Torkoal isn't new for anyone right? With TR there, almost no Pokemon outspeeds him, while with Sun up+ Charcoal+max HP Eruption he hits like a truck, even to foes who resist him. Also he gives the sun for Incineroar to do more damage if needed, and gives a 100% chance of harvesting sitrus on Trevenant while weakening water moves and removing the foe's weather.
Also, as far as I know he is slower than Gigalith and the rest of weather setters, so he is always gonna win that war if they come up at the same time, like the double duck lead. Heat wave to get some more spread damage while hp isn't that high and Flamethrower to bypass Wide Guard users.
I've considered Solar Beam for more coverage but i'm not sure if it is good or needed because i already have 2 Grass types on my team, and I don't really know if there are some other coverage options for Torkoal.
About EVs, they are there to maximize his damage while beign able to tkae a couple hits. Quiet nature to hit harder and be "faster". Under TR of course, hitting a speed of 22 with 0 speed IVs, the slowest Pokemon in the city.

It's time to throw in the thing that is prob the most broken mon in this format.



Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 60 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room

I think he is self-explanatory as he is a commonly used Pokemon. Evs and Eviolite to get a really high amount of Bulk, while some Evs, lucky Downloads and a Quiet nature to get some damage done. TBolt and Ice Beam for coverage as this guy is almost my only answer against Garchomp and Salamence, Recovery for recovery(duh) and obviously TR. This guy serves as another source of damage and coverage, as a sub TT setter if Trevenant can't really be brought to the battle. This guy is disgusting and he is the reason why everyone is carrying a cuple Toxics in their team. Maybe I should do that too...

The last 2 mons are Coverage options for the team, the first one being


Mudsdale @ Groundium Z
Ability: Stamina
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- High Horsepower
- Rock Slide
- Heavy Slam

About EVs and Nature, read Incineroar above. And talking about this guy now, what it does different is becoming really hard to kill if brought to the fight at the right time. AV giving him a nice amount of SP Def, whiel his own ability giving it def.Changed to Groundium Z to get some surprise KO. High Horsepower as the stab and the team's main and prob only way to kill Muk. He also is an answer to Koko and Marowak. Rock Slide for some spread damage, Clsoe Combat for hitting things like Porygon2 and Heavy Slam for those pesky Fairies. I find myself using him a lot, as he hits like a mad horse. He doesn't run EQ because i have no pokemon that can avoid it other than using protect, it just isn't worth it. He doesn't like much the next one, but they rarely go together into the fight.

I need help deciding between Vikavolt and Magnezone for the last spot of the team and I would use some help here.
Also, I


With this team I have some favourite leads:

Hariyama+Trevenant
Fake out+Trick Room is cool right?

Possible weather war?
Torkoal+Trevenant

Bad matchup for Trevenant?
Porygon2+Hariyama

1 or more Intimidate users in their team?
Porygon2+Torkoal


So, that's about it, please forgive me if I skipped some typos, I tried to correct all of them.
I could really use some advice at polishing this team, about the things I ask about and other things you may notice I'm doing wrong/I could do better!
Cya.
 
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#2
This team is pretty good tbh. Honestly I'd replace protect on incineroar for Leech Life and give it an assult vest. Porygon2s everywhere so better be prepared for those.
This is a decent team for actual competition and if you can, go for it my dude.
Also Superpower is exchangable with Zen Headbutt. Depends on wether you are worried about Poision or Steel :)
You can cover for your weaknessess, its well balanced.
Take all this with a grain of salt as I'm not an expert :,)
(Love the idea of Incineroar btw)
Edit: Tri attack is good STAB on Porygon2 instead of TBolt
 
#3
This team is pretty good tbh. Honestly I'd replace protect on incineroar for Leech Life and give it an assult vest. Porygon2s everywhere so better be prepared for those.
This is a decent team for actual competition and if you can, go for it my dude.
Also Superpower is exchangable with Zen Headbutt. Depends on wether you are worried about Poision or Steel :)
You can cover for your weaknessess, its well balanced.
Take all this with a grain of salt as I'm not an expert :,)
(Love the idea of Incineroar btw)
Edit: Tri attack is good STAB on Porygon2 instead of TBolt
Well I thought about AV incineroar, but as I am using it on Mudsdald and IMO he can use it way better, idk what item could I give to mudsdale instead, any suggestions?.Maybe a weakness policy could be good? he is umikely to get oneshotted anyway.
 
#4
Mudsdale could have Choice Band or Weakness policy depending on how you want to run the team. I honestly think one is just as good as another. OHKOing Mudsdale is really hard and the biggest water special attackers are Tapu Fini and Gastrodon. Tapu Fini you should switch or Heavy slam and Gastrodon you should be able to tank its attacks amd hit it hard with your other mon on the field
 
#5
Mudsdale could have Choice Band or Weakness policy depending on how you want to run the team. I honestly think one is just as good as another. OHKOing Mudsdale is really hard and the biggest water special attackers are Tapu Fini and Gastrodon. Tapu Fini you should switch or Heavy slam and Gastrodon you should be able to tank its attacks amd hit it hard with your other mon on the field
Weakness Policy mudsdale could be a nice answer to Porygon2 in the team, as the usual P2 will ice beam him and without TR mudsdale will eat that hit before, I ran some calcs.
+2 252+ Atk Mudsdale Superpower vs. 244 HP / 92 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 192-226 (100.5 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So, with weakness policy, unless P2 is heavily invested on def, superpower can deal serious damage back, i gotta give it a try.
 
#7
I like the team so i tried it in a couple of matches to see if i might be able to help. first match i faced a team of Garchomp / Kartana / Pheromosa / Lycanroc-Midnight / Milotic / Tapu Koko and brought Trevenant / Incineroar / Torkoal / Porygon2 and had a problem with the Lycanroc roaring out the TR setters. the team looks too reliant on TR so i would look into having less of a hard TR team and more of a TR team that doesn't rely on TR. I personally would remove a pokemon for another faster pokemon but i dont know what exactly to remove but even not being able to use TR early in the game i was able to win.

The second game i noticed Araquanid is a problem without Porygon 2 so i would look into that, also Salazzle might be a problem if you didnt have Mudsdale so another thing i would look into.

Third game i forfeited against Psych Up Tapu Fini and Minimize Stockpile Muk so unless you try and EV Mudsdale to survive Tapu Fini water moves and then lead it with Porygon 2 i would watch out for that because Trevenant Incineroar isnt good for that MU.
 
#9
I like the team so i tried it in a couple of matches to see if i might be able to help. first match i faced a team of Garchomp / Kartana / Pheromosa / Lycanroc-Midnight / Milotic / Tapu Koko and brought Trevenant / Incineroar / Torkoal / Porygon2 and had a problem with the Lycanroc roaring out the TR setters. the team looks too reliant on TR so i would look into having less of a hard TR team and more of a TR team that doesn't rely on TR. I personally would remove a pokemon for another faster pokemon but i dont know what exactly to remove but even not being able to use TR early in the game i was able to win.

The second game i noticed Araquanid is a problem without Porygon 2 so i would look into that, also Salazzle might be a problem if you didnt have Mudsdale so another thing i would look into.

Third game i forfeited against Psych Up Tapu Fini and Minimize Stockpile Muk so unless you try and EV Mudsdale to survive Tapu Fini water moves and then lead it with Porygon 2 i would watch out for that because Trevenant Incineroar isnt good for that MU.
Well, after testing some more, i'm liking AV incineroar and weakness policy Mudsdale, he is taking some threats if he gets the boost. The one mon that I find myselfusing in only 1 out of 10 games is Bulu. So, updating the team, at the moment it is like this:
Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Darkest Lariat
- Flare Blitz
- Leech Life
- Fake Out

Trevenant @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Harvest
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Horn Leech
- Toxic
- Protect
- Trick Room

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 36 SpA / 60 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Trick Room

Mudsdale @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stamina
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Close Combat
- High Horsepower
- Protect
- Heavy Slam

Torkoal @ Charcoal
Ability: Drought
Level: 50
EVs: 116 HP / 252 SpA / 140 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Eruption
- Heat Wave
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Looking for a pokemon to fill the last spot of the team, someone who can help out of the TR as well, that's why I am needing help with the most now. Frankly I think that I have enough damage with Incineroar/Torkoal/Mudsdale/Porygon, so some supportive pick here could be good.

I tried doing an EV spread for Mudsdale against Fini without AV, but the only way of not getting 2HKO by Fini was investing way too much in bulk, and that woudl prevent him from picking some KO he needs, like on Arcanine or Muk

EDIT: I've been thinking and, as TR will still be the main focus of the team, maybe swapping Bulu with Hariyama could help add the team some more support while having a way to stop P2, and I think Hariyama would do a beter job than Bulu in the team. But this also leaves my opponent with uncontested terrain, so I'm still testing it. Thinking about Krookodile for the last spot too, for taunt+intimidate support, but that would add a 4th pokemon weak to water in my team, so maybe A-Persian is better here.
 
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#10
This is a really interesting team. Something that I noticed about it is that it lacks immediate offensive presence, though. Between sun, Weakness Policy, and Download, your offensive mons all require either setup or luck for high damage output, and that's in addition to Trick Room. I also see that you have limited options against some pretty common Trick Room counters, like Araquanid and Gigalith. I think that your team might be a bit too tanky in a couple places, too, to the point where it has lost some valuable damage output. I have some suggestions that I think could help here.

Optimizing your Trevenant is one way to help your Araquanid and Gigalith matchups. As is, your Trevenant is bulky but loses out on 2HKOs on Araquanid, bulky Tapu Fini, and Gigalith. You definitely want to invest enough in attack to get those KOs; otherwise, P2 and Mimikyu do the TR setter job better. I would also suggest switching to Wood Hammer since the increase in damage is noticeable. On Incineroar, why did you choose AV over Incinium Z or Expert Belt? AV misses out on OHKOing Marowak, who's generally an issue for sun teams. And I also question the WP on Mudsdale. Life Orb would give you a 50% chance to OHKO Gigalith and Arcanine, and Choice Band or Groundium Z would guarantee the OHKO on both, and none of them require setup. On a related note, I really think you should be using a Z-crystal on this team. You have a limited amount of time to abuse TR, and having a Z-move nuke helps move things along, so to speak.

As for your last mon, I do think you need more damage output. Unless I'm missing something here, you don't have many ways to reliably KO Porygon2 or Araquanid, and there's no such thing as too much offense on a hard TR team. Vikavolt, Magnezone, Gigalith, Hariyama, and Machamp all have ways of dealing with at least one of those two mons, so I would consider using one of them. Adding Rock Slide on Mudsdale would also help against Araquanid, but it only 2HKOs with a boosting item. You could also consider replacing Incineroar with Hariyama, since they have similar niches with Fake Out. Since you are a hard TR team, I really think you should be focusing on getting TR up and abusing it rather than trying to function outside of your element.

Really hope this helped, and good luck with your team!
 
#11
This is a really interesting team. Something that I noticed about it is that it lacks immediate offensive presence, though. Between sun, Weakness Policy, and Download, your offensive mons all require either setup or luck for high damage output, and that's in addition to Trick Room. I also see that you have limited options against some pretty common Trick Room counters, like Araquanid and Gigalith. I think that your team might be a bit too tanky in a couple places, too, to the point where it has lost some valuable damage output. I have some suggestions that I think could help here.

Optimizing your Trevenant is one way to help your Araquanid and Gigalith matchups. As is, your Trevenant is bulky but loses out on 2HKOs on Araquanid, bulky Tapu Fini, and Gigalith. You definitely want to invest enough in attack to get those KOs; otherwise, P2 and Mimikyu do the TR setter job better. I would also suggest switching to Wood Hammer since the increase in damage is noticeable. On Incineroar, why did you choose AV over Incinium Z or Expert Belt? AV misses out on OHKOing Marowak, who's generally an issue for sun teams. And I also question the WP on Mudsdale. Life Orb would give you a 50% chance to OHKO Gigalith and Arcanine, and Choice Band or Groundium Z would guarantee the OHKO on both, and none of them require setup. On a related note, I really think you should be using a Z-crystal on this team. You have a limited amount of time to abuse TR, and having a Z-move nuke helps move things along, so to speak.

As for your last mon, I do think you need more damage output. Unless I'm missing something here, you don't have many ways to reliably KO Porygon2 or Araquanid, and there's no such thing as too much offense on a hard TR team. Vikavolt, Magnezone, Gigalith, Hariyama, and Machamp all have ways of dealing with at least one of those two mons, so I would consider using one of them. Adding Rock Slide on Mudsdale would also help against Araquanid, but it only 2HKOs with a boosting item. You could also consider replacing Incineroar with Hariyama, since they have similar niches with Fake Out. Since you are a hard TR team, I really think you should be focusing on getting TR up and abusing it rather than trying to function outside of your element.

Really hope this helped, and good luck with your team!
Thanks for the reply! Yeah i already got rid of AV on incineroar and WP on Mudsdale after testing and went back to AV to mudsdale for a while. The thign is that Incineroar is there because I like him, but I think I'm replacing him with Hariyama, at least while he can't get Intimidate. So, with Hariyama there for the fake out support, I think the last spot that I'm mising could be either Magnezone or Vikavolt. Magnezone has some serious Tapu killing potential, while Vikavolt has that sweet ground inmunnity.
About Mudsdale, I'll try getting choice band so I can open the protect slot and fit Rock Slide there.
I need some help deciding between Magnezone or Vikavolt, as idk whichc sets do they use.
Anyway, I'll update the first post with the current state of the team, thanks!
Another quick question: AV Thick Fat or FLame Orb Guts Hariyama?
 
#12
I would try Fightinium Z Hariyama. All the Tapu Fini in the meta make Guts less consistent, so Fightinium Z is the safest way to guarantee the OHKO on Porygon2. I prefer Thick Fat on Fight Z Hari to tank attacks from Marowak and Torkoal, but it does leave you open to being burned. Between Magnezone and Vikavolt, Magnezone seems like the better option to me. It's bulkier, has a better offensive typing, and can trap Steel-types for Torkoal, Mudsdale, and Hariyama. Either Life Orb or Choice Specs would get the OHKO on Araquanid, so you could start with one of those. Magnezone should definitely run its STABs, and Substitute and Hidden Power are common choices in the third slot. Volt Switch is good if you're running Specs.

Forgot to mention this before, but have you considered Imprison on Trevenant? Since you're running both Protect and Trick Room, it could be a good choice.
 
#13
I've been workign in this again lately, and I have changed so many things that I think I will make a entirely new thread for it, as this one sint worth editting, but thanks for the answers! I'll be making the new one shortly.