VGC VGC 2013 Trick Room

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by guillotine20, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. guillotine20

    guillotine20

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    Before I begin, I'm open to any and all suggestions, as I've been met with very mixed results using this team.

    Jellicent (M) @ Wacan Berry
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Shadow Ball
    - Ice Beam
    - Water Spout

    **Jellicent and Reuniclus both serve as one of the starters on my team, as they're the ones who carry Trick Room. Both, however serve very different purposes as Sweepers in their own right. Jellicent can take care of Dragons, Ghosts, Grass, Fire, etc, etc, as you can see from his attacks. Wacan berry is to protect against Electric attacks, just in case.

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 192 HP / 64 Def / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Trick Room
    - Psyshock
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    **As mentioned with Jellicent, Reuniclus serves as one of my starters for Trick Room. Life Orb with Magic Guard gives the extra "oomph" without the recoil, and grants protection from damaging weather types. Serves to battle. Battle spread serves to neutralize common threats, other than Bug types, as I'm not sure how to defend against them.

    Hydreigon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Dark Pulse
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Fire Blast

    **Hydreigon serves as my EndGame sweeper. Leftovers for longevity, Fire Blast for Bugs, and Dragon Pulse to knock back the fighters that would do harm with massive SpAtk stat. Draco Meteor is the "last resort," per se.

    Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 SDef
    Brave Nature
    - Hammer Arm
    - Mach Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Detect

    **Main Physical Sweeper, as I don't think many TR teams survive long without him. STAB Hammer Arm to dish out insane damage, and further dropping his speed to blaze through TR. Mach Punch for the tricky dudes that want to pull out a priority move against him. Ice Punch for Flying types and Dragons. Detect allows Flame Orb to kick in without worry of being KO'ed on the first turn.

    Amoonguss @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Effect Spore
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 Def / 64 SAtk / 96 SDef
    Relaxed Nature
    - Spore
    - Rage Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb

    **Amoonguss is always, always, ALWAYS a starter, as his Rage Powder works wonders in helping TR get off the ground. Effect Spore has worked fantastically in biting back at opponents who like to hit him with Fake Out. I split his massive bulk between both Special and Physical Defense, as I initially had him set up in Special only, and was getting destroyed by the likes of Icicle Spear, Ice Punch, Acrobatics, etc. Now he survives all incoming hits on the first turn, unless someone manages a Crit. Giga Drain and Sludge Bomb are STAB moves of choice, and the benefit of possibly poisoning with Sludge Bomb is a nice bonus.

    Tyranitar @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Brave Nature
    - Crunch
    - Rock Slide
    - ThunderPunch
    - Protect

    **Tyranitar is an interesting addition I added, but I haven't been using him lately. Initially had him for the Spread damage of Rock Slide, but the accuracy of it seems to make it a little less than worthwhile. Seemed like a good idea for a sweeper, but I'm beginning to find him a tad on the useless side. Not sure what to switch him out for, however.
  2. tlyee61

    tlyee61

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    Hey man, nice TR team! However, there are a few minor tweaks that I would suggest.
    Reuniclus: try a spread of 252 HP / 32 Def / 204 SAtk / 20 SDef

    (STOLEN FROM NUGGETBRIDGE http://nuggetbridge.com/articles/guide-to-hailroom/)

    It may not look like it, but this Reuniclus can do a lot for you. The combination of Life
    Orb, Quiet Nature, and 204 Special Attack EVs lets you OHKO Conkeldurr, Hitmontop, and Terrakion with Psychic. This Reuniclus will OHKO Chandelure with Shadow Ball after Hail damage, or OHKO non-Rindo Gastrodon with Energy Ball. Defensively, Reuniclus can handle Chandelure’s Shadow Ball and all Crunches, except Tyranitar’s (even then it’s only a 12.5% of KO). Reuniclus will get KOed by Scizor 50% of the time, and will always be KOed by Heracross’s Megahorn. For Reuniclus’s moveset Trick Room is a given since that’s the point of using it here, and Psychic works as Reuinclus’s STAB so you’ll be 2HKOing pretty much everything that doesn’t resist. The choice between Shadow Ball and Energy Ball depends on what you feel is more of a threat: Chandelure and other Ghost/Psychic-types or Gastrodon. In most cases Shadow Ball is preferred because otherwise you won’t be hitting Ghost- and Psychic-types as hard as you’re hoping to, and because Energy Ball is weaker than Psychic when facing pretty much any Pokémon that isn’t Gastrodon. Recover works really well on Reuniclus because of the fact that once it gets Trick Room up the opponent will probably use Protect to avoid eating a Psychic and stall out Trick Room, so instead you can Recover your lost HP and become even more of a threat.

    There are quite a few other choices for Reuniclus, so I’ll go through some of those here. If you’re more worried about living Crunch from Tyranitar you can use 252 HP / 52 Def / 196 SpA / 8 SpD. This spread loses out on the KO on Chandelure, and now you may get KOed by its Shadow Ball (12.5% of the time). While avoiding the KO from Tyranitar might be important, there’s not much you can do back unless you have Focus Blast, which will 3HKO in Sandstorm at best. If you’re extremely worried about all of these physical attackers, you can make a more defensive spread with a Relaxed nature, but you’ll miss out on some important KOs. Instead of Psychic you can use Psyshock, which will net a KO on Pokémon like Virizion; however, both Psychic and Psyshock have different perks, so go with what your team would appreciate more. If you’re really scared of Pokémon like Scizor, you can use Hidden Power Fire over Recover to KO Scizor and 2HKO Metagross. Reuniclus can make use of Trick as well, since Flame and Toxic Orbs don’t damage it and give it a status to block Paralysis and Sleep. If you’re not going for the more offensive set, you can definitely make use of the Orbs and Trick.

    Hydreigon: Try Dragon Gem and 1 Dragon move for a nice nuke-button to clean up with. Also, consider Surf for Jellicent for healing.

    Conkeldurr: A bulkier spread that you might want to try is 252 HP / 12 Atk / 244 SpDef. It allows you to only be 3HKOed by Cress' Psyshock

    TTar: Maybe try Fire Punch > ThunderPunch to hit Scizor hard
  3. guillotine20

    guillotine20

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    I traded in Tyranitar for Dragonite with this set:

    Dragonite (M) @ Yache Berry
    Trait: Multiscale
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Punch
    - Fire Punch
    **Serves the same role that TTar served, but with a more diverse spread.

    Also, switched Reuniclus' stats as you suggested.
  4. guillotine20

    guillotine20

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    Also, I feel that this team is far too "5th Gen," and needs some better diversity. Any suggestions on what I should do to remedy this?
  5. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
    VGC Leader

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    Hey, you've got a pretty nice team on your hands without too many glaring problems. Here are a few suggestions to try out I think would improve your team.

    1) Heatran > Tyranitar

    Heatran lends your team a number of things. First off, it gives your team the all important Dragon resistance, something that's really needed when Latios is throwing around Dragon Gem Draco Meteors everywhere. Secondly, it's very good in and out of Trick Room, giving your team something that isn't over reliant on your set up. Finally, it pairs very well alongside many of the Pokemon already on your team. Hydreigon and Heatran make a deadly Special Attacking core when paired together and have solid defensive synergy as well, only sharing a Fighting weakness. Amoonguss and Jellicent have brilliant defensive synergy with Heatran; not a single weakness is shared among the three of them. What's better is that Jellicent's Water Absorb prevents Surf from being spammed too liberally while Heatran's out. Amoonguss can also Rage Powder to redirect deadly fighting attacks for Heatran and help it set up a substitute.

    I would recommend a set something along the lines of:

    [​IMG]
    Heatran @ Chople Berry
    Flash Fire
    244 HP / 52 Def / 208 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
    Modest
    -Heat Wave
    -Earth Power
    -Protect
    -Substitute

    The EVs might look a little strange, but they serve a purpose. With that spread, you can survive a Fight Gem boosted Close Combat from Hitmontop and still be able to set up a Substitute. You can also take 132 of those Special Attack EVs and dump them into Speed if you want to outrun Hitmontop outside of Trick Room.

    2) Hariyama > Conkeldurr

    Conkeldurr's pretty nasty in Trick Room, but there's a Pokemon that's just as nasty in Trick Room that lends your team some valuable support. Hariyama trades the power of Mach Punch for the disruptive abilities of Fake Out and I'd say it's well worth the trade. Fake Out gives you an alternative to Amoonguss for a Trick Room lead partner while doing much the same thing; giving your partner a cushier time setting up. Additionally, Hairyama is able to use Close Combat over Hammer Arm, a far deadlier alternative.

    For Hariyama try:

    [​IMG]
    Hariyama @ Flame Orb
    Guts
    Brave
    252 Atk / 124 Def / 132 SpDef, 0 Speed IV
    -Fake Out
    -Close Combat
    -Rock Slide / Ice Punch
    -Detect

    3) Fast Hydreigon > Slow Hydreigon

    A general rule of thumb with VGC teams is that you don't want to be over reliant on your set up. Outside of Trick Room, your team can operate decently well, but you'd appreciate a faster Pokemon outside of Trick Room. This is probably the most iffy of my suggestions, so feel free to ignore it, but I would try running a faster Hydreigon set to do work late game after Trick Room's gone down. With this change, your team pounds away early game in Trick Room to have Hydreigon clean up the rest of the mess after Trick Room's gone down. I've made teams running off a similar strategy and I think it's something you ought to try.

    As to what to change on Hydreigon if you want to implement this, I would recommend switching to an EV spread of 60 HP / 252 SpAtk / 196 Speed with a Timid nature (and switch your speed IV back to 31). This allows you to outrun everything slower than a max speed Adamant Garchomp. Also, I would recommend swapping out Dragon Pulse for Protect as Dark Pulse + Flamethrower already gives you very solid coverage and Draco Meteor still lets you hang on to a Dragon STAB.

    4) Minor Moveset Changes

    A few of your movesets seem a bit strange so I'd like to just condense them all into one quick read. Protect is such a valuable move to have in doubles and Jellicent and Reuniclus really enjoy it. I would drop Ice Beam on Jellicent and Shadow Ball on Reuniclus to make room. Neither really needs the coverage and both love the added utility. Additionally, on Jellicent I would consider dropping Water Spout in favor of Scald. Water Spout is awesome, but it's difficult to preserve its HP without any Pokemon of your own restoring its HP, especially if you want it to get Trick Room up. If you find Water Spout hitting for low amounts of damage more often then not, try out Scald for a far less spectacular but far more reliable STAB.

    Hope this advice helps!
  6. tlyee61

    tlyee61

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    Hey, minor tweak to this spread to make it more efficient:
    248 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpAtk / 4 SpDef gives you one more point in HP and the same stat in SpAtk. Alternatively, you could move the 4 SpDef in SpAtk to give 1 more point in SpAtk. (making it 244 HP / 52 Def / 212 SpAtk)
  7. TheMantyke

    TheMantyke ᴵ ᶰᵉᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵐᵒᶰˢᵗᵉʳ ᵗᵒ ᶜᶫᵒᵇᵇᵉʳ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᴷᶦʳᵇʸ
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Whoops, thank you very much. Truth be told, I never plugged in that set into PS! or anything, I was modifying an existing spread without checking level 50 stats. Nice catch!
  8. lucariojr

    lucariojr all that glitters is not golduck
    is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

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    on jellicent, use a set with cursed body and recover. i see this set all the time on GBU, and it's never failed to cause me trouble (unless i have something i can nuke it with like thundurus-t or dark gem tyranitar). protect jellicent is kind of redundant with trick room, since you're better off spewing water spouts everywhere or nabbing a quick recover, as well as taking advantage of the odd sucker punch to regain health.

    amoonguss NEEDS regenerator. change that ASAP. otherwise, the team looks pretty good if you make mantyke's changes. you might have some trouble with rain, but i've never used the team so i wouldn't know.

    edit: sludge bomb<protect on amoonguss as well
  9. tlyee61

    tlyee61

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    hmm, on paper, this team looks like it'll be decimated by poli+kingdra and other common rain sweeper in the back (i.e. thundurus-t, scizor, terrakion, etc) IMO because life orb muddy water + hh boost hurts most of this team, and draco meteor / ice beam can hit most other things. he (or she)'ll have to keep sand up in this matchup. even then, scizor rounds out the coverage and can also clean up with bullet punch / bug bite / even acrobatics :/

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