[VGC 2014] Venusaur (QC 0/0)

[Xlstevo]

Taken over from TheMantyke http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/2014-venusaur.3501641/

Overview
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-Charizard and Venusaur: BFFs forever
-Among the fastest, bulkiest Chlorophyll users available, making it a good Pokemon in and out of the sun.
-Makes up for the holes in Charizard's coverage pretty well
-Good Mega Evolution
-Hates Talonflame and Rotom-H
-limited coverage between its two main stabs
-Generally a worse off choice than Amoonguss if you aren't using it with Mega Charizard Y

Charizard Partner
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name: Charizard Partner
move 1: Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder
move 4: Protect
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Life Orb
evs: 204 HP / 252 SpA / 52 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========
-Leaf Storm can OHKO many Pokemon such as Rotom-W and Azumarill, but has a costly Special Attack decrease and the opponent can take advantage of if Venusaur does not switch out which makes Giga Drain the safer move that still does good damage.
-Sludge bomb is Venusaur's most powerful STAB move that has no negative side effects that covers Fairy and Grass Pokemon.
-Sleep status in VGC can cause serious problems which Sleep Powder comes to play. With the combination of Chlorophyll in sun, you can outspeed your opponents Pokemon and put them to sleep. The move has 75% accuracy so its not fully dependable and best used in tight situations and can change the game to your favor.
-Protect as the final move slot allows you to possibly block a double teamed attack on Venusaur or just scout out certain moves and attacks your opponent will use.

Set Details
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-52 Spe EVs to outspeed any Pokemon under 204 Spe or outspeed anything with a max base speed of 140 while in the sun.
-252 SpA EVs to let Venusaur to hit as hard as possible.
-204 HP Evs to let Venusaur survive attacks and give it some bulk.
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 20+ SpD Politoed: 237-281 (120.3 - 142.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 320-377 (154.5 - 182.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar: 265-312 (151.4 178.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 87-105 (47.2 - 57%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 187-221 (90.3 - 106.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mamoswine: 229-273 (106 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 221-265 (106.7 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 164 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Ludicolo: 125-148 (71 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-252+ SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 187-221 (119.8 - 141.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Usage Tips
========
-Well since this is a pairing up with Charizard, you might want to go after threats against Charizard.
-Sleep powder is best used good when both Venusaur and its partner (usually Mega Charizard Y) have a hard time KOing a threat.
-Without sun support, Venusaur is somewhat vulnerable.

Team Options
========
-Obviously needs Mega-Charizard to work efficiently.
-Rotom-W as a 3rd wheel of this core so Venusar can safely swap out into it when its up against threats like Taloneflame and Rotom-H.

Mega Tank
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name: Mega Tank
move 1: Giga Drain / Leaf Storm
move 2: Sludge Bomb
move 3: Sleep Powder / Leech Seed / Synthesis
move 4: Protect
ability: Chlorophyll
item: Venusaurite
evs: 244 HP / 108 Def / 132 SpA / 20 SDefc / 4 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========
-Giga Drain has a good secondary effect which is to heal 50% of the damage dealt on the opponent. Leaf storm is optional and can OHKO some opposing threats, but has a costly side effect that decreases its Special Attack by 2 stages.
-Sludge is Venusaur's most powerful STAB move that does not suffer any negative side effects.
-Sleep Powder allows Venusaur to gamble on the 75% accuracy which is best used on opponents when Pokemon your team has a tough time getting rid of.
-Protect affords Venusaur all of Protects normal uses, keeping Venusaur safe from double targets and the rest of its utilities
-Leech Seed is viable with this set, because it has great bulk and appreciates recovering to make the damages against it lighten.
- Synthesis is a great recovery move in combination of Mega Venusaur's bulk.

Set Details
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-Mega Stone
-Chlorophyll is still the recommended ability since it can net Venusaur a turn of being faster than usual if the opponent happens to bring a Charizard Y
-The Def EVs also make Garchomp and Mega Kangaskhan neutral nature have to 4HKO in order to knock out Mega Venusaur because of the low percentages of the 3HKO which shows the bulk of this thing.
-Mega Venusaur's EVs in SpA allow it to 2HKO - 3HKO almost any Pokemon such as Garchomp, Mega Kangaskhan, Rotom-W, Salamence, Azumarill and much more!

Usage Tips
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-Works great for taking hits and delivering hard super effective blows.
-Can take any Fire, Ice, Grass, Poison, Water and Electric attacks fairly well so this Pokemon has a lot of uses.

Team Options
========

-Rotom-W works wonders with Mega Venusaur. Venusaur gives Rotom-W a switch in for whatever -Amoonguss wants to do while Rotom-W makes for a great Talonflame counter.
-Anything that enjoys having Rotom-W out of the way like Talonflame and Garchomp likes having Mega Venusaur around
- Mega-Venusaur appreciate intimidate users such as Scrafty and Gayrados.
-Having an Ally Pokemon with Quick Guard helps avoid being OHKO by Choice Band Taloneflame, but still in risk of Flare Blitz.

Other Options
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-Venusaur in support of Charizard's sun could run solar beam for more damage.
-Leech seed is somewhat viable. It works to recover some HP back, but Venusaur lacks some bulk which makes the move less important.
-Energy Ball is option for that extra power, but Venusaur benefits more for Giga Drain with the recovery or Leaf Storm which does a lot more damage.

Checks & Counters
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-Sap Sipper Goodra: Goodra has amazing Special Defensive stats that can hard counter anything Venusaur ( and Mega Charizard Y ) has to through at it. Sap Sipper makes Venusaur's Grass types attacks useless against it and take any hit Venusaur has to

-Saftey Goggles Rotom H: Rotom H alone can take on attacks from Venusaur (and Mega Charizard Y). With the addition of Saftey Goggles, Venusaur cannot put Rotom H to sleep which makes Rotom H a threat.

-Taloneflame : Pokemon like Taloneflame can OHKO regular and Mega Venusaur with there STAB flying moves.

-Fire types: Pokemon such as Rotom-H, Taloneflame, Chandelure and Special Salamence can all OHKO regular Venusaur in the sun with there powerful Fire type attacks.

-Psychic types: Bulky Psychic types such as Gothitelle and Reuniculus often give Venusaur and Mega Venusaur a problem.

Venusaur and Mega Charizard Y have good synergy and support each other very well. They also don't have many Check and Counters because of the fact they cover each others weaknesses.

 

[Xlstevo]

I changed the second set because I believe Mega Venusaur is better as a Bulky Offensive mon instead of just a fully invested into its defensive stats.
Needs QC
Laurel
Biosci
R Inanimate
kingofmars
lucariojr
idiotfrommars
TheMantyke

 

[kingofmars]

For the mega venusaur set your evs are inefficient, move 4 evs from hp to speed. Def slot in Leaf Storm, as ohko'ing rotom-w is a huge benefit. Sludge bomb is a staple, you should not be using hp fire over it under any circumstances. For the last two slots, I'd list sleep powder synthesis leech seed and protect all as viable options. Check your calcs, since most talonflames that aren't intimidated should be able to ko your mega venusaur set rather easily.

 

[Xlstevo]

Changed the 4 HP into Spe and deleted that part with surviving Taloneflame's CB BB. Adamant Taloneflame seems to be more popular than Jolly which does the 50%. Also took that Leaf Storm suggestion which I totally forgot it could learn that move. As for HP Fire, I removed.

 

[Laurel]

You need to explain why giga drain > leaf storm. Why Sludge Bomb? We KNOW that they are STAB moves.

It's because it is ITS STRONGEST stab move not because it is a stab move.

Not trying to sound mad too lazy to bold tag

Also uf you're not going to slash it after leaf storm don't mention giga drain, and if you are you need to give calcs to show why it would be worth it.

 

[Xlstevo]

You need to explain why giga drain > leaf storm. Why Sludge Bomb? We KNOW that they are STAB moves.

It's because it is ITS STRONGEST stab move not because it is a stab move.

Not trying to sound mad too lazy to bold tag

Also uf you're not going to slash it after leaf storm don't mention giga drain, and if you are you need to give calcs to show why it would be worth it.

No problem, I understand your just trying to just help me out. I think I fixed all the changes.

 

[Laurel]

No problem, I understand your just trying to just help me out. I think I fixed all the changes.

Great, I think I'd still put giga drain before leaf storm thats what almost everyone used last year but i'll keep reading.

-Sleep Powder is best used in bad situations for you to get out of and could potentially turn the game in your favor.

what type of bad situations? sleep powder is good when both venusaur and its panrter (usually zard) cannot ko a threat. eg: vs Rotom-H if you know it doesn't have safety goggles, or vs hydreigon, scarf mence etc the idea is not to rely on it as u said (only 75% accuracy) but use it if you need to.

-If your running HP Fire, its probably for Ferrothorns and Mega Mawiles. Keep the move hidden until you can get a good opportunity to attack it.

Nah get rid of this, it's not even slashed on the set and you have zard for that stuff.

delete this "is Venusaur's STAB move that does good damage against super effective and/or weaker defensive Pokemon. This move " everyone knows that.

we know: Sludge bomb is Venusaur's STAB move that covers Fairy and Grass Pokemon and is Venusaur's most powerful STAB move that does not suffer any negative side effects.

Just say Sludge is Venusaur's most powerful STAB move that does not suffer any negative side effects. Coverage vs fairy types is honestly useless because you already have Giga Drain for azumarill and mawile resists sludge bomb. Nobody really uses Florges or Sylveon.

delete this: - HP Fire can still do wonders against Steel types.

-Rotom-H is another viable partner for similar reasons as Rotom-W.

I wouldn't consider rotom-h i dont like that its weaknesses overlap with charizard

Having an Ally Pokemon with Quick Guard helps avoid being OHKO by Choice Band Taloneflame.

^ still at risk of flare blitz though.

Add sap sipper goodra into checks and counters as its a hard counter to sun. Also give safety goggles rotom-h a special mention as being a pretty hard sun counter.

What kind of steel-types? Venusaur can still put Mawile to sleep same goes for Lucario, and both are hammered by Heat Wave. Mention which sets they check, Gardevoir definitely doesn't check Zard-Y + Venusaur in Sun thats for sure. Sludge Bomb OHKOs with Life Orb. Also mention that since Zard-Y and Venusaur go hand and hand there aren't many hard "Venusaur" counters because most of those things (eg: Lucario and Mawile both check Venusaur) both get destroyed by Charizard.

The first part that you fixed is much better though I am very proud of you.

 

[Xlstevo]

Great, I think I'd still put giga drain before leaf storm thats what almost everyone used last year but i'll keep reading.

-Sleep Powder is best used in bad situations for you to get out of and could potentially turn the game in your favor.

what type of bad situations? sleep powder is good when both venusaur and its panrter (usually zard) cannot ko a threat. eg: vs Rotom-H if you know it doesn't have safety goggles, or vs hydreigon, scarf mence etc the idea is not to rely on it as u said (only 75% accuracy) but use it if you need to.

-If your running HP Fire, its probably for Ferrothorns and Mega Mawiles. Keep the move hidden until you can get a good opportunity to attack it.

Nah get rid of this, it's not even slashed on the set and you have zard for that stuff.

delete this "is Venusaur's STAB move that does good damage against super effective and/or weaker defensive Pokemon. This move " everyone knows that.

we know: Sludge bomb is Venusaur's STAB move that covers Fairy and Grass Pokemon and is Venusaur's most powerful STAB move that does not suffer any negative side effects.

Just say Sludge is Venusaur's most powerful STAB move that does not suffer any negative side effects. Coverage vs fairy types is honestly useless because you already have Giga Drain for azumarill and mawile resists sludge bomb. Nobody really uses Florges or Sylveon.

delete this: - HP Fire can still do wonders against Steel types.

-Rotom-H is another viable partner for similar reasons as Rotom-W.

I wouldn't consider rotom-h i dont like that its weaknesses overlap with charizard

Having an Ally Pokemon with Quick Guard helps avoid being OHKO by Choice Band Taloneflame.

^ still at risk of flare blitz though.

Add sap sipper goodra into checks and counters as its a hard counter to sun. Also give safety goggles rotom-h a special mention as being a pretty hard sun counter.

What kind of steel-types? Venusaur can still put Mawile to sleep same goes for Lucario, and both are hammered by Heat Wave. Mention which sets they check, Gardevoir definitely doesn't check Zard-Y + Venusaur in Sun thats for sure. Sludge Bomb OHKOs with Life Orb. Also mention that since Zard-Y and Venusaur go hand and hand there aren't many hard "Venusaur" counters because most of those things (eg: Lucario and Mawile both check Venusaur) both get destroyed by Charizard.

The first part that you fixed is much better though I am very proud of you.

Changes implemented.