VGC 2016 - Core Discussion

#1
so i dipped out of VGC '15 after nationals and decided to play a few games of '16 and i think off the bat i found something relatively strong;

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Liepard @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Fake Tears
- Encore

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Protect

obviously fake out + geomancy is no joke, and xerneas has the bulk to avoid most OHKOs from things especially when liepard's fake out essentially allows you to choose what you get hit by. further, fake tears supports xern by making its dazzling gleam do absurd damage both before and after geomancy boosts and just makes it really hard for things to deal. mence covers a lot of the issues that xerneas has like its weakness to ferrothorn and p-don via flamethrower (which will kill any ferro variant after fake tears) and intimidate. mence also has strong synergy with liepard getting good mileage out of fake tears boosting the damage output of hyper voice, and outspeeds m-ray and can KO with dragon pulse.

off the top of my head, this core is a little p-ogre weak, as ogre has the bulk to withstand a lot of these attacks and the raw power to back its presence up, as well as making ferrothorn immune to fire attacks which gives both xern and mence a lot of trouble. something like p-don in the back may alleviate those problems, not sure. i'm also not certain if xerneas could be optimized more in just about every way, because it does have tremendous bulk and i'm not sure what relevant numbers it hits before/after the geo boost, so i'm sure that could be better.

but i wanted to start a discussion about powerful cores you've found in the new meta opening with this one. hit me with those hot opinions

other cores:

Vengeance417 said:
[Ho-oh, Groudon, Latios]
Ho-Oh @ Charcoal
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Earth Power
- Overheat
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Latios @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 SpA / 20 SpDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Grass Knot
- Protect
Vengaence417 said:
Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Reckless
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick/Low Kick
- Knock Off/Rock Slide
- Wide Guard

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Crobat @ Mental Herb
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Super Fang
H-C said:
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Focus Blast

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Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Psych Up
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast

Here's a core I really love, it's quite a standard Xerneas set but what comes next to it is Altaria. You can use Psych Up on the same turn that Xerneas uses protect or Geomancy and then you have access to the strongest special attackers in the game w/ a huge boosted +2 Fairy Aura Pixilate Hyper Voice. The EV's are still to be worked on but those give a huge bulk to both Xerneas and Altaria while outspeeding scarf Lando-t as Altaria at +2 and you outspeed max speed smeargle as Xerneas.
ElegyOfVGC said:
Yveltal @ Black Glasses / Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Oblivion Wing / Tailwind / Taunt
- Protect
Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

This core is pretty simple, really. Doubling up into either primal with Dark Pulse from Yveltal + Sucker Punch from Mawile, or anything unresisted really, almost always gets the kill. The biggest threats to Yveltal, Xerneas and Kangaskhan, are neutralized by Mawile. The main threats to this core pretty much includes smeargle lol. Xerneas with set up support can also pose a threat IF you don't kill the support turn one, which is usually pretty easy given the nature of this core. Mawile's evs let it outspeed Kang under tailwind, you can change them however you need to, I just copy pasted this from a team. Sucker Punch from Yveltal still does a good chunk to spdef things that don't resist it, such as Kyogre. You can run hasty if you want to power it up a bit more.
Basically this is a dark spam core, and Mawile beats the things that beats usual dark spam.
 
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#3


The Embers of Life and Death

Ho-Oh @ Charcoal
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Tailwind
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 180 HP / 252 SpA / 76 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Earth Power
- Overheat
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Latios @ Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 236 SpA / 20 SpDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Grass Knot
- Protect


This is essentially a copy and paste from the "What Gods will you bring?" thread.

A classic Ho-Oh Sun core brought to life for VGC 2016. This core is a WIP (not entirely sold on Ho-Oh's item atm and I might change its spread, suggestions would be nice c:) but it's really, really fun. Charcoal and Desolate Land-boosted Sacred Fire is an absolute pain to tank unless you have Pogre, and when you are incinerated with the Holy Embers, trust me, there will be eternal burns scarred into your very soul. Brave Bird 2HKOs any form of Pogre, making it not the safest of switchins. Tailwind provides speed control. The EV spread is to outspeed +1 Adamant Mega Rayquaza after a Tailwind. The rest goes to Attack and HP, giving it the bulk to prevent the 2HKO from +2 Xerneas's Moonblast.

Specially-based Mixed Primal Groudon is my favorite set right now. It's such an effective lure for Lando-Ts to try to switch in, thinking they'll tank nothing but Rock Slides or some crap. Overheat obliterates nearly any Lando-T set not named AV. Earth Power almost OHKOs just about any opposing Primal Groudon set, making Ho-Oh's job waaaay easier. Rock Slide not only helps with luring in the physical Pdon checks but also ensures I don't lose to opposing Ho-Oh and Talonflame. The EVs are weird, yes, but I didn't want to go with a defense-lowering nature to prevent compromising any of Pdon's bulk. 76 speed with a minus nature allows you to outpace Scarf Lando-T after a Tailwind, and the HP investment still enables you to survive a +2 HP Ground from Xerneas when at full.

This double fire core has troubles with Giratina-O and Pogre when it comes in, so we have Expert Belt Latios w/ Grass Knot and it's doing quite well for me so far. Latios is nice because it provides me a solid switchin to Pdon as well as a means of outpacing and eliminating Mega Ray in one shot in Tailwind. The EV spread is, again, weird-looking, but it enables me to always survive a Modest max SpA Ice Beam from Pogre when at full. It's still able to OHKO 252 HP Giratina-O with the investment it has. If only we had Soul Dew access, then I wouldn't have to do this arbitrary spread, but w/e ;_;
 
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#4
The core in the OP is the core I've been using since the start of the season, plus P-Groudon, Crobat and Ferro (as mentioned by someone earlier). Currently I am having issues with Kyogre, as none of the team have an ironclad way to inflict a bunch of damage at once without being equally susceptible to OP/WS. Otherwise it seems to be working quite well.
 
#5
so i dipped out of VGC '15 after nationals and decided to play a few games of '16 and i think off the bat i found something relatively strong;

+
+


Liepard @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fake Out
- Foul Play
- Fake Tears
- Encore

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Pulse
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Protect

obviously fake out + geomancy is no joke, and xerneas has the bulk to avoid most OHKOs from things especially when liepard's fake out essentially allows you to choose what you get hit by. further, fake tears supports xern by making its dazzling gleam do absurd damage both before and after geomancy boosts and just makes it really hard for things to deal. mence covers a lot of the issues that xerneas has like its weakness to ferrothorn and p-don via flamethrower (which will kill any ferro variant after fake tears) and intimidate. mence also has strong synergy with liepard getting good mileage out of fake tears boosting the damage output of hyper voice, and outspeeds m-ray and can KO with dragon pulse.

off the top of my head, this core is a little p-ogre weak, as ogre has the bulk to withstand a lot of these attacks and the raw power to back its presence up, as well as making ferrothorn immune to fire attacks which gives both xern and mence a lot of trouble. something like p-don in the back may alleviate those problems, not sure. i'm also not certain if xerneas could be optimized more in just about every way, because it does have tremendous bulk and i'm not sure what relevant numbers it hits before/after the geo boost, so i'm sure that could be better.

but i wanted to start a discussion about powerful cores you've found in the new meta opening with this one. hit me with those hot opinions
I recommend 36 HP EVs (I think) on xern to avoid the OHKO from adamant kanga double edge
 
#6
I like the special Groudon + Talonflame core. Still working on the EV spreads, team mates and the team as a whole, but you can see here what I mean.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-306810895 ("Jacobim Mugatu" is my alt)



Leading Geomancy Xerneas + Sash Follow Me Smeargle, with a Kangaskhan and Groudon in the back, has been very effective for me so far.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-307063488



Role Play Mega Gengar + Primal is fun too. Trap them. Change the weather. Sweep.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-307085939
 
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#7
I've been playing around with Sub Primal Groudon and Tailwind Yveltal. Get some speed control in there along with a substitute and Groudon has no way to get it's attack lowered by intimidate
Also helps that I'm also using Mega Kang and Liepard as they make to be great teammates
 
#8
another cute idea i thought about was m-ray + togekiss. you get togekiss' flying weaknesses removed, so it's essentially like playing clefable with that 60% flinch-rate air slash, plus the obvious follow me + dragon dance combo
 
#12

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
- Geomancy
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect
- Focus Blast

+


Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Modest Nature
- Protect
- Psych Up
- Hyper Voice
- Fire Blast

Here's a core I really love, it's quite a standard Xerneas set but what comes next to it is Altaria. You can use Psych Up on the same turn that Xerneas uses protect or Geomancy and then you have access to the strongest special attackers in the game w/ a huge boosted +2 Fairy Aura Pixilate Hyper Voice. The EV's are still to be worked on but those give a huge bulk to both Xerneas and Altaria while outspeeding scarf Lando-t as Altaria at +2 and you outspeed max speed smeargle as Xerneas.
 

Xia

On porpoise
is a Contributor Alumnus
#13
I've been enjoying a lot of success with a combination of pOgre and Whimsicott with Worry Seed + Fake Tears. Originally I was testing the OP's core of Mence/Xern/Liepard with Ferrothorn for coverage against pOgre when I stumbled across it, but I'm now finding Xerneas to be more of a liability than pOgre as a sweeper, especially given the prevalence of pDon (many of whom seem not to expect a Worry Seed + Origin Pulse or Fake Tears + Hyper Voice combo).

I also attempted a go with the M-Alteria/Xerneas core, but found Alteria to be too dependent on Xerneas to play effectively. A full turn of non-Protecting, non-attacking moves between the two was hard to pull off with so many teams coming packed with an effective answer to Xern's Dazzling Gleam already. Not to say it doesn't have worth, I just found myself wishing I either had Golduck for Cloud Nine or M-Mence for standalone strength and physical bulk using it.
 
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#14
Hey, H-C, i think your altaria would be better with cloud nine in base form than with natural cure. Its bad for oposing primal kyogres , and you can defeat oposing pgroudons if you have a p kyogre on team. Xerneas + altaria+ pkyogre core would be great.
Have anyone tried a liepard with fake out + foul play + swagger+ encore? If paired with yveltal, it kos p kyogre after a swagger.
 
#15

Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Reckless
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick/Low Kick
- Knock Off/Rock Slide
- Wide Guard

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Crobat @ Mental Herb
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Super Fang

I'm really digging this dual-lead core that I'm using with Mienshao and Crobat. Mienshao puts the fear of Arceus in to Mega Kangaskhans everywhere, either forcing it out completely or flat out OHKOing it with HJK (assuming I hit ;-;) so that Crobat can use any of its support options without being killed or heavily damaged by said Mega Kanga. I also like to double-target potential Mental Herb Cresselia by using both Fake Out and Taunt at the same time.

Mienshao's role is simple. Provide a relatively fast Fake Out, scare away Kangas and when I have the chance, block spread moves such as Origin Pulse, Eruption, Precipice Blades and Rock Slide. I've mainly used Knock Off on mine to cripple mons that are item reliant such as Xerneas, but Rock Slide can also be an option for getting heavy damage on to mons like Talonflame and Ho-Oh.

This Crobat set belongs to DDRMaster from the "Sets for 2016" thread with his explanation here:

Super Fang cuts one enemy's HP in half which lets Crobat's partner turn a 2HKO into a OHKO. Tailwind helps for Speed control and Taunt is mostly used on Xerneas since it can't run a Mental Herb like Trick Room Pokemon could. Quick Guard blocks Fake Out and other priority attacks and pretty much shuts down Prankster Pokemon.

The EVs let you outspeed Weavile, which is the fastest Fake Out Pokemon besides an already Mega'd Lopunny and Ludicolo in the Rain. I honestly don't see a reason to run max Speed since you can't Super Fang Gengar, you're risking a 50/50 against Mewtwo, and Taunt won't do a whole lot to either of them. The HP and Def EVs let you survive Jolly Mega Kangaskhan's Double Edge and you can still take a +2 Xerneas's Moonblast as well. 116 HP / 252 Def / 140 Spe could also be used to outspeed Mega Rayquaza and survive a Primal Groudon's Stone Edge. You'll still have a good chance to die from Overheat pretty much no matter how you EV Crobat, though.

Mental Herb blocks Taunt which can cripple you and Inner Focus stops Fake Out from flinching you. I think these are the moves most people are running, but I remember seeing Whirlwind at one point as well.
Here's a replay of this core in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-308764723

Mienshao scares away the Kanga lead while Crobat Taunts the Xerneas.
 
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#16

Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- High Jump Kick/Low Kick
- Knock Off/Rock Slide
- Wide Guard

+


Crobat @ Mental Herb
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 76 HP / 212 Def / 220 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Quick Guard
- Tailwind
- Super Fang

I'm really digging this dual-lead core that I'm using with Mienshao and Crobat. Since both of these bad boys pack Inner Focus as their ability, they cannot be flinched by Fake Out and are essentially free to do whatever they want turn 1. Mienshao puts the fear of Arceus in to Mega Kangaskhans everywhere, either forcing it out completely or flat out OHKOing it with HJK (assuming I hit ;-;) so that Crobat can use any of its support options without being killed or heavily damaged by said Mega Kanga. I also like to double-target potential Mental Herb Cresselia by using both Fake Out and Taunt at the same time.

Mienshao's role is simple. Provide a relatively fast Fake Out, scare away Kangas and when I have the chance, block spread moves such as Origin Pulse, Eruption, Precipice Blades and Rock Slide. I've mainly used Knock Off on mine to cripple mons that are item reliant such as Xerneas, but Rock Slide can also be an option for getting heavy damage on to mons like Talonflame and Ho-Oh.

This Crobat set belongs to DDRMaster from the "Sets for 2016" thread with his explanation here:

Here's a replay of this core in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/vgc2016-308764723

Mienshao scares away the Kanga lead while Crobat Taunts the Xerneas.
Mienshao needs Reckless if you want to reliably KO Khan with Sash:
-1 252 Atk Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 146-174 (80.6 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 174-206 (96.1 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Khan + Landog never was rare, and Landog / basically any relevent Intimidate mon has very little fear of switching into Mienshao beyond an "annoying at best" Knock Off.
With Inner Focus, you gain the ability to Fake Out against Weavile/Ambipom/Persian/Liepard/Raichu/Infernape/Loppuny. Of those, Liepard, Weavile, and maybe Raichu are the only relevent ones. Even then: you don't flinch/stop them. You just chip them, or tap the partner.
With Reckless, you gain absolutely no negative side effect whatsoever, it is always useful in any battle (especially the ones without a faster Fake Out mon), and you gain several KO's you simply cannot muster with Inner Focus. Garchomp, Rotom-W/H, Offensive Pdon after Super Fang, and basically anything without absurd bulk and/or a resist or immunity takes grievous damage from it; it can 2HKO damn near everything which is rather significant with Sash and Super Fang support. Hell, even Primal Kyogre needs quite a bit of balls to tank Fake Out + Reckless HJK:

252 Atk Mienshao Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 25-30 (14.2 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 142-168 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's 95.1% MINIMUM.

I know Mienshao is high-risk, high-reward, but do understand it gets basically nothing out of Inner Focus, never ever ever wants to get hit with Fake Out anyway (goodbye Sash), outruns every Fake Out you'll see bar max Speed Liepard, and in any odd situation you're faced with a Fake Out or Scarfed Rock Slide flinchfest: You have Crobat to fuck over 99.9% of Fake Out (Mega Loppuny can only be stopped by Meowstic and Mega Sceptile), and you have Wide Guard on Mieshao itself to deny ScarfSlide. I've used Mienshao a long time; Regenerator is debatable, mostly for Singles, but Reckless is almost always the best possible ability in most circumstances for the massive power at no cost. HJK caps at 50% max HP now, after all. Inner Focus is quite literally even more useless on Mienshao than Alakazam. And it's pretty shit on Alakazam.

tl;dr use Reckless. I do actually approve of the combo.
 
#17
Mienshao needs Reckless if you want to reliably KO Khan with Sash:
-1 252 Atk Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 146-174 (80.6 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Kangaskhan: 174-206 (96.1 - 113.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

Khan + Landog never was rare, and Landog / basically any relevent Intimidate mon has very little fear of switching into Mienshao beyond an "annoying at best" Knock Off.
With Inner Focus, you gain the ability to Fake Out against Weavile/Ambipom/Persian/Liepard/Raichu/Infernape/Loppuny. Of those, Liepard, Weavile, and maybe Raichu are the only relevent ones. Even then: you don't flinch/stop them. You just chip them, or tap the partner.
With Reckless, you gain absolutely no negative side effect whatsoever, it is always useful in any battle (especially the ones without a faster Fake Out mon), and you gain several KO's you simply cannot muster with Inner Focus. Garchomp, Rotom-W/H, Offensive Pdon after Super Fang, and basically anything without absurd bulk and/or a resist or immunity takes grievous damage from it; it can 2HKO damn near everything which is rather significant with Sash and Super Fang support. Hell, even Primal Kyogre needs quite a bit of balls to tank Fake Out + Reckless HJK:

252 Atk Mienshao Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 25-30 (14.2 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Reckless Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 142-168 (81.1 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's 95.1% MINIMUM.

I know Mienshao is high-risk, high-reward, but do understand it gets basically nothing out of Inner Focus, never ever ever wants to get hit with Fake Out anyway (goodbye Sash), outruns every Fake Out you'll see bar max Speed Liepard, and in any odd situation you're faced with a Fake Out or Scarfed Rock Slide flinchfest: You have Crobat to fuck over 99.9% of Fake Out (Mega Loppuny can only be stopped by Meowstic and Mega Sceptile), and you have Wide Guard on Mieshao itself to deny ScarfSlide. I've used Mienshao a long time; Regenerator is debatable, mostly for Singles, but Reckless is almost always the best possible ability in most circumstances for the massive power at no cost. HJK caps at 50% max HP now, after all. Inner Focus is quite literally even more useless on Mienshao than Alakazam. And it's pretty shit on Alakazam.

tl;dr use Reckless. I do actually approve of the combo.
Changed.
 
#18
Hey, H-C, i think your altaria would be better with cloud nine in base form than with natural cure. Its bad for oposing primal kyogres , and you can defeat oposing pgroudons if you have a p kyogre on team. Xerneas + altaria+ pkyogre core would be great.
This sounds like a great idea, changing this now
 
#19
This has been my favorite core lately


Yveltal @ Black Glasses / Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
- Oblivion Wing / Tailwind / Taunt
- Protect

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 144 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

This core is pretty simple, really. Doubling up into either primal with Dark Pulse from Yveltal + Sucker Punch from Mawile, or anything unresisted really, almost always gets the kill. The biggest threats to Yveltal, Xerneas and Kangaskhan, are neutralized by Mawile. The main threats to this core pretty much includes smeargle lol. Xerneas with set up support can also pose a threat IF you don't kill the support turn one, which is usually pretty easy given the nature of this core. Mawile's evs let it outspeed Kang under tailwind, you can change them however you need to, I just copy pasted this from a team. Sucker Punch from Yveltal still does a good chunk to spdef things that don't resist it, such as Kyogre. You can run hasty if you want to power it up a bit more.
Basically this is a dark spam core, and Mawile beats the things that beats usual dark spam.
 

Jio

welcome back mahmz :]
is a Tutoris a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
VGC Co-Leader
#20
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Now I know that Rayquaza + Kyoge is a core that has been brought up in other places, but I haven't seen it mentioned here so I thought I'd give it a whirl. Rayquaza + Kyogre is a solid core as Rayquaza provides Air Lock for Kyogre which allows it to threaten Groudon even with Desolate Land in active. Kyogre also struggles with Grass- types such as Amooguss and Ferrothorn which is another big reason why Rayquaza is so good next to it. As for Rayquaza, it really appreciates having a partner that can threaten both of the opponents at once with high powered moves as it is unable to do so itself.

So Rayquaza + Kyogre have a bit of an issue against fast Xerneas, which is where Mawile comes in. Mawile's typing allows it to check Xerneas rather well as it can tank a +2 Moonblast from Modest Xerneas and OHKO with an easy Iron Head. Even if it doesn't OHKO (with help from opposing Intimidate) then it definitely puts Xerneas in KO range of Extreme Speed.

Unfortunately for Mawile it has really poor speed which means it's going to take some time before it can actually get the KO on Xerneas. That's why a good partner for these 3 would be Cresselia as it can provide Trick Room which both Mawile and Kyogre very much appreciate

BTW I included Mega Rayquaza just in case there are those matchups where you don't need to bring Mawile. Also included a faster set for Kyogre in case Trick Room isn't your thing.

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Protect

Rayquaza @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Overheat
- Extreme Speed
- Protect

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Sucker Punch
- Protect
 

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More flags more fun
#21
Yveltal @ Black Glasses
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Roost
- Foul Play

+

Liepard @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swagger
- Foul Play
- Encore
- Fake Out

SwagPlay 2016 edition
 
#23
Just going to put this video here, i thought it might be useful on this thread:


Cores covered:

upload_2016-2-1_19-33-24.png
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upload_2016-2-1_19-33-4.png


Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Air Lock
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/Naive Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Draco Meteor
- Extreme Speed
- Protect

Kyogre-Primal @ Blue Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Thunder

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upload_2016-2-1_19-34-37.png


Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Geomancy
- Moonblast
- Dazzling Gleam
- Protect

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fake Out
- Dark Void
- Spiky Shield
- Follow Me

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 236 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch
- Protect

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Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 100 Atk / 156 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Eruption
- Protect

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Gravity
- Helping Hand

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upload_2016-2-1_19-34-37.png


Ho-Oh @ Lum Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Tailwind
- Recover
- Brave Bird

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 4 Def / 236 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Eruption
- Flamethrower
- Protect
 
#25
What are some Pokémon besides Xerneas that are useful against Primal Kyogre / Rayquaza cores?
Ray/Kyogre cores are usually weak to Ferrothorn so using that can give you an edge. Together with Xerneas, it can shut it down
Other than that, the core tends to be fast so TR is a good answer. Watch out for potential taunt users though