VGC 2016 Rules - "Uber" legendaries are back!

I haven't tested much, but I would think Ludicolo/Mega Swampert could be viable with Primal Kyogre, as Ludicolo has really cool STABs (Hydro Pump and Grass Knot hit both primals SE under the correct conditions) and Fake Out. I also think I saw a Mega Swampert OHKO a Mega Rayquaza with non-STAB Ice Punch once when a friend was testing a team and had his Rayquaza surprise KOd.
They both face real problems with things like Mega Rayquaza and Primal Groudon, and Ludicolo can't live Dark Aura boosted Mega Mawile Sucker Punch (idk about Mega Kangaskhan though I would imagine it to be the same).
 
I was wondering, is any swift swimmer good?
The problem with Swift Swimmers is that the Heavy Rain set by Primal Kyogre will dissipate when Ogre switches out, making it far less effective than when paired with normal Rain. The problem with normal Rain is that it gets trumped by Heavy Sun. You could make it work in theory, but its just not as effective as other forms of speed control such as Trick Room, Tailwind, or Thunder Wave.
 

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I was wondering, is any swift swimmer good?
Rain on its own isn't a very viable strategy anymore (R.I.P. My most effective playstyle) but Ludicolo isn't a terrible choice for teams that carry POgre as it makes for a good pressure with Fake Out neutralizing on pokemon since Swift Swim boost speed to make it go first and POgre gets a a free turn to do stuff as well as Grass Knot being pretty good against PDon dealing a chunk of damage (can't remember ATM) but overall can be replaced by something else in general since Ludicolo relies on POgre solely
 
Some replays I've collected demonstrating how easy it is to support Mawile/Primal Groudon (my favorite core as of right now) and how amazing Smeargle/Sableye can be.
The team I used in those replays below.
This team centers around the Mawile+Pdon+Yveltal core and all the other mons on the team are engineered to show off their power. The Sableye can live Pdon Precipice Blades very frequently (99% is the most I've had it do, I might refine that spread to make sure), the Porygon2 spread lets me take a 2HKO from both Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse and Primal Groudon Precipice Blades, Yveltal hits a Life Orb number with HP, and the rest of the spreads are generic.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Substitute
- Protect

Sableye @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Quash

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Magic Coat
- Follow Me
- Spiky Shield

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpA / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Tri Attack
- Foul Play
- Trick Room
- Recover

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 36 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Tailwind
- Protect
Description of the core below.

These three provide amazing things for each other. Yveltal and Primal Groudon (to an extent) can beat other Primal Groudon for Mega Mawile, Mega Mawile and Primal Groudon can beat Xerneas easily for Yveltal, and Mega Mawile and Yveltal beat Mega Rayquaza and Primal Kyogre for Primal Groudon. Yveltal even provides a form of speed control for the other two in Tailwind which is something I still have yet to utilize on that specific team, but I have utilized on others. Mega Mawile also works under pretty much any environment, sneakily taking out Trick Room Primal Kyogre or Palkia, Sucker Punch KOing really frail fast mons like Thundurus, and many, many more things.

Not only do they perfectly beat each other's checks, but they can even beat their own checks with ease. I rarely struggle with this core because it's such an amazingly powerful one and this is probably, from what I've seen, the best core in VGC. It's so good that it's hard to try and innovate with this core lurking around because the rest of your team has to really, really stop this hard, and most cool mons are actually just outclassed by these three, imo. I would call this like a new THALK but that title has already gone to Primal Groudon+Xerneas+Mega Kangaskhan+Cresselia even though that loses to this core.

(This is completely off the point of this post but does anybody have like a good Yveltal they can give me because I lost my Pokemon Y ;_;)
 
Some replays I've collected demonstrating how easy it is to support Mawile/Primal Groudon (my favorite core as of right now) and how amazing Smeargle/Sableye can be.
The team I used in those replays below.
This team centers around the Mawile+Pdon+Yveltal core and all the other mons on the team are engineered to show off their power. The Sableye can live Pdon Precipice Blades very frequently (99% is the most I've had it do, I might refine that spread to make sure), the Porygon2 spread lets me take a 2HKO from both Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse and Primal Groudon Precipice Blades, Yveltal hits a Life Orb number with HP, and the rest of the spreads are generic.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Substitute
- Protect

Sableye @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Quash

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Magic Coat
- Follow Me
- Spiky Shield

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpA / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Tri Attack
- Foul Play
- Trick Room
- Recover

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 36 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Tailwind
- Protect
Description of the core below.

These three provide amazing things for each other. Yveltal and Primal Groudon (to an extent) can beat other Primal Groudon for Mega Mawile, Mega Mawile and Primal Groudon can beat Xerneas easily for Yveltal, and Mega Mawile and Yveltal beat Mega Rayquaza and Primal Kyogre for Primal Groudon. Yveltal even provides a form of speed control for the other two in Tailwind which is something I still have yet to utilize on that specific team, but I have utilized on others. Mega Mawile also works under pretty much any environment, sneakily taking out Trick Room Primal Kyogre or Palkia, Sucker Punch KOing really frail fast mons like Thundurus, and many, many more things.

Not only do they perfectly beat each other's checks, but they can even beat their own checks with ease. I rarely struggle with this core because it's such an amazingly powerful one and this is probably, from what I've seen, the best core in VGC. It's so good that it's hard to try and innovate with this core lurking around because the rest of your team has to really, really stop this hard, and most cool mons are actually just outclassed by these three, imo. I would call this like a new THALK but that title has already gone to Primal Groudon+Xerneas+Mega Kangaskhan+Cresselia even though that loses to this core.

(This is completely off the point of this post but does anybody have like a good Yveltal they can give me because I lost my Pokemon Y ;_;)
Please oh Please keep this core a secret... I though I was the only one realizing Yveltal is great..

I can vouch for it's power as well. Should also note that Hitmontop supports this core pretty well with the use of Dual Guards and Fake Out.
 
I don't like see every battle with Smeargle + dangerous Pokémon. (Groudon-A, KyogreA, Xerneas, etc) :/
Well think of it like this... It's almost as effective and more creative than M-Ray + Togekiss. Dark Void is annoying but you can effectively shut down 30% of kids at regional events who aren't competitive with it. It's a reliable failsafe and it is taking a lot of prediction for that leadset to work.
 
Well think of it like this... It's almost as effective and more creative than M-Ray + Togekiss. Dark Void is annoying but you can effectively shut down 30% of kids at regional events who aren't competitive with it. It's a reliable failsafe and it is taking a lot of prediction for that leadset to work.
If 60% or more of people who play on PSLadder continues to use this dangerous Pokémon I think that metagame will stabilize in two-three months ahah
Ok, they are the first few days.. but I have already getting bored to see Smeargle scarf and company EVERYWHERE ahah
 
I just lost to a fucking +4 Evasion +2 Speed Smeargle that spammed Dark Void the entire match, and when it was done it wanted to redirect every attempt to take the game back that I tried. It was literally the most stupid game I had ever played.

If there's anything better than Mawile+Yveltal+Pdon it's easily Smeargle alone.

Also it's not creative at all it's literally just spamming Dark Void to infinity.
 
I just lost to a fucking +4 Evasion +2 Speed Smeargle that spammed Dark Void the entire match, and when it was done it wanted to redirect every attempt to take the game back that I tried. It was literally the most stupid game I had ever played.

If there's anything better than Mawile+Yveltal+Pdon it's easily Smeargle alone.

Also it's not creative at all it's literally just spamming Dark Void to infinity.
I feel you dude, that's the only reason I run Cresselia with Magic Coat. That thing is absolutely stupid (not insulting the player or tactic, just angry with the Poke. LOL sorry Smeargle). And it satisfies me that I had successes bouncing Dark Voids on low ladder with that.


If 60% or more of people who play on PSLadder continues to use this dangerous Pokémon I think that metagame will stabilize in two-three months ahah
Ok, they are the first few days.. but I have already getting bored to see Smeargle scarf and company EVERYWHERE ahah

Yeah, it's a thing now. I ran into a couple of those already. People run Scarf more than Sash, Sash variants have Transform. Those who have Transform use it with Xerneas (after Geomancy), like what Shofu said in his most recent YouTube video.
 
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Yeah don't get me wrong I'm no advocate of Smeargle. I haven't been laddering as much as most others and i've been spending more time scouting teams and the different play styles on showdown currently. Lets just hope Smeargle doesn't make it past showdown to the point where we all need hard counters for him. Sableye can shut him down pretty good as long as it isnt running mental herb and they both lead off against one another. At worst we could all just start running Skarmory with Whirlwind and Sleep talk to help filter it out, I guess...

Skarmory@Mental Herb/Chesto Berry
Sturdy
Impish
252 HP 60 Atk 196 Def
- Whirlwind / Taunt / Rest
- Tailwind / Taunt
- Brave Bird
- Sleep Talk

Hard Follow Me/Rage Powder counter, screws Amoonguss, Togekiss, the Moon fairies, and Smeargle. Could be specially based but that's not really where Skarmory shines. Either way this could be a fun alternative to stop Smeargle from being an ass. Sleep talk with 0 priority whirlwind on +2 speed could be annoying if people dont bring taunt users. Either way I'm only talking hypotheticals for now on the assumption Smeargle will become a trend. Also could be a good answer to people running Rayquaza with EQ over a fire coverage move:

252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Skarmory: 51-60 (29.6 - 34.8%) -- 8.2% chance to 3HKO


And then Skarmory is over here like:

60 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza: 61-73 (33.8 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

60 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Smeargle: 130-154 (80.7 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
60 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Amoonguss: 110-132 (49.7 - 59.7%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO
(Needs 72 Atk to 2HKO)
60 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 108+ Def Clefable: 63-75 (31.1 - 37.1%) -- 77.8% chance to 3HKO
60 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Eviolite Clefairy: 51-60 (28.8 - 33.8%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO
60 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 164+ Def Togekiss: 51-60 (26.5 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Kinda stally. if Skarmory can't kill it or taunt it, it can whirlwind it out and mess up their mojo to maybe garnish a better matchup. Soaks up status like its nobody's business which is nice.
 
Some replays I've collected demonstrating how easy it is to support Mawile/Primal Groudon (my favorite core as of right now) and how amazing Smeargle/Sableye can be.
The team I used in those replays below.
This team centers around the Mawile+Pdon+Yveltal core and all the other mons on the team are engineered to show off their power. The Sableye can live Pdon Precipice Blades very frequently (99% is the most I've had it do, I might refine that spread to make sure), the Porygon2 spread lets me take a 2HKO from both Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse and Primal Groudon Precipice Blades, Yveltal hits a Life Orb number with HP, and the rest of the spreads are generic.

Mawile-Mega @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Play Rough
- Protect

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Substitute
- Protect

Sableye @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Foul Play
- Swagger
- Quash

Smeargle @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 50
EVs: 244 HP / 12 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Void
- Magic Coat
- Follow Me
- Spiky Shield

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Download
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 92 SpA / 164 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Tri Attack
- Foul Play
- Trick Room
- Recover

Yveltal @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
Level: 50
EVs: 220 HP / 36 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Foul Play
- Sucker Punch
- Tailwind
- Protect
Description of the core below.

These three provide amazing things for each other. Yveltal and Primal Groudon (to an extent) can beat other Primal Groudon for Mega Mawile, Mega Mawile and Primal Groudon can beat Xerneas easily for Yveltal, and Mega Mawile and Yveltal beat Mega Rayquaza and Primal Kyogre for Primal Groudon. Yveltal even provides a form of speed control for the other two in Tailwind which is something I still have yet to utilize on that specific team, but I have utilized on others. Mega Mawile also works under pretty much any environment, sneakily taking out Trick Room Primal Kyogre or Palkia, Sucker Punch KOing really frail fast mons like Thundurus, and many, many more things.

Not only do they perfectly beat each other's checks, but they can even beat their own checks with ease. I rarely struggle with this core because it's such an amazingly powerful one and this is probably, from what I've seen, the best core in VGC. It's so good that it's hard to try and innovate with this core lurking around because the rest of your team has to really, really stop this hard, and most cool mons are actually just outclassed by these three, imo. I would call this like a new THALK but that title has already gone to Primal Groudon+Xerneas+Mega Kangaskhan+Cresselia even though that loses to this core.

(This is completely off the point of this post but does anybody have like a good Yveltal they can give me because I lost my Pokemon Y ;_;)
Good core!
I can't judge your team but the core is good. :D
 

Lord Wallace

Hentai Connoiseur
is a Tiering Contributor
Ok after actually playing this format some I actually like it quite a lot much to my own surprise. Aside from Primal Don being stupidly good and Kangaskhan continuing to be a fail safe option for most players I think this meta has potential to be a lot more enjoyable than the past couple of formats.
Giratina-O in particular is really good and a lot of people are sleeping on it, only thing really holding it back from being A+ or S tier imo is Xerneas.
 
Okay so I've played a bit with a new team, and I have to say I found a pretty good combination, Mega Salamence + Togekiss. I managed to beat a Pdon+Xerneas lead with those two as my leads, since I outsped +2 Speed Xerneas after Tailwind with MegaMence. Hadn't it been for Thunder Wave hax I would have won the entire game with just the combination of those two. The full team is actually based around Primal Kyogre+Palkia RainRoom, although it is more RainTailRoom. The sets:


Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Dragon Dance MegaMence is really good, I wish I used this gem more in the 15 season. With redirection support it easily gets up a DD or two, and then proceeds to wreck shit. This also kinda checks M-Ray, as it outspeeds it and has a move of one of the few types that hit it for super effective damage through Delta Stream. Pdon can't hit it for that much damage, since Rock Slide after and Intimidate isn't really strong. I might switch to Return, since it 2HKOes a lot of the same stuff I think (haven't done any calcs though), and recoil sucks.


Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Tailwind
- Air Slash
- Protect
- Follow Me

Nothing special here, just a pretty basic Togekiss, with a simple spread which will be not so simple as this team develops most likely. Tailwind is really good, and just gives so much momentum when used at the correct time. Redirection support is obviously godly as always. Air Slash hax is also pretty chill.

Kyogre @ Blue Orb
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Protect
- Ice Beam
- Origin Pulse
- Thunder

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Spacial Rend
- Hydro Pump
- Protect

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Protect

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Aegislash @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- King's Shield
- Wide Guard
- Shadow Sneak

Togekiss @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Serene Grace
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Tailwind
- Air Slash
- Protect
- Follow Me
 
I've got this funny feeling that Mega Rayquaza and P-Groudon being allowed will be abused like heck - and that some Japanese kids will find a way past them, making the counter-Rayquaza-team the most popular all over Top 32.

A successful team in this metagame is one which can utilize its non-Uber-Pokémon in a meaningful way. Like, for instance, KO-ing or weakening the opposing Ubers to pave the way for their own Ubers. That, or supporting the Ubers to become even more fearsome. Follow Me/Rage Powder + Power Herb Xerneas springs to mind immediately. Either way, relying solely on the Ubers sounds like a plan that will only take you so far.
incoming Golduck as best VGC mon. Surf and Icy Wind. Cloud Nine. Insta-GG

EDIT:
252 SpA Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 204-240 (98.5 - 115.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO Under Doubles
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 109-130 (70.3 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
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incoming Golduck as best VGC mon. Surf and Icy Wind. Cloud Nine. Insta-GG

EDIT:
252 SpA Golduck Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 204-240 (98.5 - 115.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO Under Doubles
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 109-130 (70.3 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

THIS IS NOT A JOKE
Modest Timid Golduck actually OHKOes 100% of the time with Scald and doesn't hit your partner in the process. Also, Primal Groudon usually run Precipice Blades at the moment.

252+ SpA Golduck Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 268-316 (129.4 - 152.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Golduck: 132-156 (85.1 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO